Eh... "A game like this" was designed from the get-go for co-op. It screams it. So you're saying you didnt expect a game designed for co-op to require co-op?
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Destiny may require co-op play for end-game activities (Story can be completed solo)
- Thread starter statham
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Jest Chillin
Member
The information about the game... Bungie's statements on solo play and co-op play have been out there for a long time now and Bungie never once released a quote that said every piece of content is soloable. So if you took word of mouth information or a general statement that the game can be played alone and decided that applied to everything, then yes, you are effectively half listening. You're taking what you want out of the information and running with it rather than getting the specifics.
In fact, you almost have to ignore the content they've already demo'd to think that. Fireteams are going to be necessary for the Dungeon content (the first half of the Russia gameplay video/demo is a dungeon).
You can run through wow, solo to level 90 simply by questing.
To get the best gear in wow you have to raid.
I don't see bungie stretching much further from this.
Having a purple item in wow means much less than it did in vanilla and tbc due to equality changes.
People felt entitled to the color purple because they paid to play a game.. Knowing that the game includes raids and knowing that its defined as a massive multiplayer online game.
Blizzard now shits epics .. Even as quest items. Raiders still get epics, but obviously much better versions of said epics.
I dont really think this will be the case in terms of bungie. I think they are going to stick with the plan in terms of raiding, meaning you have to raid to get the best loot.
Put in the work and play the massively multiplayer online game and get the best gear.
Simple as that, thats how i see this game playing out, everything they have said so far points to MMo and these are what MMos do.
Hopefully they will have legendary tier weapons as well (hoping for raid related quest legendaries as opposed to rng boss drops)
Worse even, some people think it's some sort of secret DRM strategy.
Wait these are optional bosses only? Oh so it's like the Borderlands 2 raid bosses that were supposed to require teams of 4 which got exploited because of specific itemization that rendered the encounters challengeless.
So like Borderlands 2, it can be a solo game for less fun (because multiplayer is the fun part) and the campaign content is soloable. Totally fine with that.
This is what I'm most excited about with regards to Destiny: greater transparency between the main modes of play.
Well, no. Just... no. I took what was stated by Bungie as fact i.e. the game supports single player play. But if solo play is not in fact viable at end game re: does not scale for single player instances, to achieve the end game loot, then the game does not in fact support single player play, as they alluded to. I am not saying this is a bad game, I am saying that it isn't what was advertised, and, ultimately, is not for me. Which is a shame, because I was really, really, looking forward to this game. Now I've said my piece, and that will be my last word on the subject.
"Destiny's most challenging cooperative modes will require coop to play" would be a far more accurate, and a potentially less inflammatory headline, yes.
Relatively yes,
Raids are 100% end game however.
Meaning you would be long done with the campaign before you got a group together and attempted.
I imagine they wont even unlock the raids until you are a certain level and have completed the campaign (they may even ask for a certain gear level, though we don't know if that even exists yet, I'm just stating what other mmos do)
Ah, there is always that fine line to walk. But I lean in the same direction as long as any microtransactions are in the background and the game is not designed around them. Of course, one has to keep in mind longevity and the 10 year plan that Bungie/Activision has for this 'always online' game.
Considering that it is pretty much an MMO and has no sub, they are going to try and monetize content wherever they can. Which is why part of me is doubting it will be just the usual DLC here. But I guess we will just have to wait and see.
It looks like it. Blows my mind.
Jest Chillin
Member
The bold is clearly your interpretation rather than a failure or false advertising on Bungie's part. The Campaign Missions, which is where the story and lore will likely be told, is completely Solo friendly. You can complete that all by yourself. The Co-op content, be that the Competitive arena style MP, the Dungeons, or the Raids.. by design require other players. That means the game clearly supports single player gameplay but obviously not for modes and gametypes that are MP based. A Raid Boss is not a Raid Boss if it's designed to be solo'd.
Everyone here is always going on and on about immersion. One guy fighting off armies and flying to different planets by himself to fight even more armies doesn't break immersion.
HEY! get away from that vendor fellow player! You are breaking my immersion! everyone knows that i'm the only one who shops here!
I guess a few of us old dinosaurs still value a single player experience. It has nothing to do with bragging rights. As long as the campaign and a decent amount of side activities allows that, then I have no issue.
Alex
Member
Good news to me, I'd rather it be required and have some more significant encounter design in return. Amazing how much you have to fight tooth and nail to get co-op centric and MMO titles to support properly designed multiplayer nowadays with all of the people who just want their solo slog to cap.
sakipon
Member
Why not let everyone play the way they want to..? Why is it bothering you how others play their games?
Anyway, since it seems the main campaign can indeed be finished by yourself, I'm fine with this. At first I understood you couldn't finish the game the way you started it (solo), which would be annoying.
Pop
Member
I'll assume you never played an mmo or the other people that immediately jumped all over this as bad news. "End game activities" are for the best gear there is in game which will require cooperative play. That's the way it's always worked and the way it always will.
It's not bothering me at all. I just find it odd, you are on GAF so you have at least a passing interest in gaming and an online connection. Presumably you enjoy talking with like minded people about games... why wouldn't you want to play some with them?
You could at least TRY IT OUT before bitching about how you don't want to play this game online? It seems to be developed with that in mind.
flamingotripod
Member
How are people upset about this?
Because people are assuming "end-game activities" means end-game bosses that are a part of the campaign and not realizing that it's purely optional raid content like Terramorphus in Borderlands 2.
chickdigger802
Banned
well if its the final quest in the game that concludes the main story, would be a bummer not to be able to do it though.
iJudged
Banned
I will be raiding all day, every day. Can't wait. I love a good mmo, and a solid fps mmo is what we've been missing. I understand this isn't a true, honest mmo, but mmo none the less to a certain extent.
My questions are :
-How large is the world?
-What is the level cap?
-What is the server population cap?
-Can each class tank, heal and dps?
-Jobs/professions, are there any? If so what are they?
-Is there going to be an auction house?
-At what level can we acquire vehicles and what are the requirements?
-Are there factions and major cities?
-Will there be expansion packs that add to the world? Size, races, classes, mounts, weapons etc?
-I need to know more about dynamic events. The video I saw was a huge bug looking thing spawn and out of to nowhere players appear. Are those players all on the same servers or? How does it all work?
My questions are :
-How large is the world?
-What is the level cap?
-What is the server population cap?
-Can each class tank, heal and dps?
-Jobs/professions, are there any? If so what are they?
-Is there going to be an auction house?
-At what level can we acquire vehicles and what are the requirements?
-Are there factions and major cities?
-Will there be expansion packs that add to the world? Size, races, classes, mounts, weapons etc?
-I need to know more about dynamic events. The video I saw was a huge bug looking thing spawn and out of to nowhere players appear. Are those players all on the same servers or? How does it all work?
quickwhips
Member
Do did you just say Microsoft Exclusive? People need to embrace raiding awesomeness.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Glad this was clarified.
Abinash117
Member
I wonder what makes it acquire multiple players for end game activities. It doesn't seem like the classes have damage mitigation or a lot of it(besides that bubble shield don't know if it would be absolutely needed) or a lot of class synergy like in more traditional MMORPGs.
Maybe it is possible that if you are really good you can do it by yourself . Unless you are literally forced to do dungeons with others.
Maybe it is possible that if you are really good you can do it by yourself . Unless you are literally forced to do dungeons with others.
Look at Borderlands 2 for your answer. Other than Maya having group assisting abilities, everyone else is pretty non-synergetic for a group makeup. You simply need 4x the damage output to kill raid bosses, especially since many of the raid bosses automatically bump up their hitpoints to 4 player levels even if you're solo. Also since the health-gating technique is how you can survive the first hit from raid bosses, having 4 targets for the raid boss to swing at with health gating means each individual is more survivable in the fights. (assuming you can make the raid boss spread his attacks amongst you and not focus on individuals)
Also it might be possible for "resurrection" stuff to be performed by other group members just like Borderlands.
JonathanPower
Member
What's wrong with using AI controlled characters? They could "please everyone" whithout compromising their game design choices.
Abinash117
Member
Some people are able to solo those raid bosses when I was watching them fighting them. And borderlands is a really gear dependent game , in an interview with one of the game developers one of them said that borderlands 2 didn't really have the best gun mechanics and by the information I seen on destiny I see that the game isn't really dependent do gear. The might make it that the monsters are bullet spongy and capable of 1-3 shotting players , but it might not be a huge deal if there's a way to get health back the health regen .
To summarise for the people who can't be arsed to read and just like to post shite:
- There is still a campaign that can absolutely be played in its entirety by yourself.
- The campaign can also be played co-op if you want.
- There are extra activities that are designed to be played co-operatively , public events , strikes and raids.
- Raids available after the story is finished, are quite hard and will likely require you to team up with friends or match made players to be able to tackle them. This is what is being described in the articles. Nothing else.
- There are no subscriptions other than xbox live or ps plus.
- Bungie have said previously, there are no "pay to win" micro transactions but there will likely be micro transactions of some sort.
- If you want to come back and play after a year or two, you can, solo or co -op.
- as well as the story, the public events, the strikes, the raids, there is also PvP competitive multiplayer
electricpirate
Member
I just want to point out that the way we think about videogames is very weird. Story campaign = Must be soloable but everything else, doesn't matter. Why isn't it the other way around? Why is the "story" campaign so important? Is it that vital that the game have an achievable end state?
pokeystaples
Banned
If a game isn't an MMO and has a story campaign and the game is capable of being played offline and solo, people are going to expect the campaign to be soloable. Not sure why that's a difficult concept to understand.
To be forced to find friends to finish a first person shooter campaign is a bit of a foreign concept and is definitely not the norm.
UltraMagnanimous
Member
It's Monday.
tokyo slim
Banned
To be fair this is not now, nor was it ever the case with Destiny
And this may be why people are mad, but this is NOT actually happening. People are mostly just freaking out over nothing.
As far as it's been stated, the campaign can be finished solo just fine.
NoMoreTrolls
Banned
If you're on NeoGAF, there's no conceivable reason you shouldn't have a multitude of friends to play with (unless you're a notorious asshole or something). This excuse holds zero water.
Juliet's 8½ Spirits
Banned
I have a feeling this is going to be a magical gaming experience
its the jet force gemini sequel I've always wanted and dreamed for
Destiny requires a constant Internet connection to function? No offline co-op with system link with your friends?
Man fuck this generation.
As a career Navy man who had to do 6 years out of the last 20 making do with offline gaming, fuck this generation and the anti-offline push.
This game isn't even done yet and Borderlands 2 shits all over it for the reasons above.
I've always had a golden rule with games: Never do the first go-around cooperatively. It throws of the enjoyment and immersion in the world. Same concept about how I like to read books in a secluded and quiet places. Obviously, I'm not a huge fan of co-op -- competitive is great, though. But when it comes to adventuring and exploring the lands, I like to do that solo.
I am willing to bet Bungie knows how to take care of this issue - after all they did design the fantastic Halo campaigns. I have never played Warcraft, Everquest, or any other derivative with that formula simply because I am not interested. Hell, I even soloed Borderlands. Destiny seems to be a great game with tons of potential, but I will be cautiously optimistic. Being a completionist, I want the whole game accessible, not just the main story.
I do think why I am so averse to co-op game mechanics and in my mind it just comes down to games having Story Mode and Multiplayer. With multiplayer being competitive. I understand it's a very archaic way of thinking, but no matter how hard I try, I just can't get into this whole "co-op gameplay is amazing" paradigm that's so popular this generation. There's a huge rant waiting to happen about how co-op infested some games that never needed it.
Honestly I'm surprised that Destiny ever appealed to you to begin with. Not a single trailer for this game has shown solo play. It's been marketed from day one as a co-op multiplayer experience. I think it's great that some people prefer to play alone, but I don't feel like that argument applies to this game, and I definitely don't want Bungie holding the game back just to ensure everything can be done solo.
tokyo slim
Banned
This was probably the first detail we actually had about the game. It's literally the entire concept of the game that it's a shared-world shooter with seamless matchmaking for real time events that occur. So yeah, it is an always online game. You can go through the game without "teaming up" with anyone else, but there will be other people around in certain areas.
Not offline, but there is co-op. It's not Goldeneye or anything,
Yeah, new ideas are stupid! /sarcasm
You should read some about the game, it actually sounds quite interesting.
Exploring the solar system and Bungie's expertise in designing guns is quite intoxicating.