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Xbox One and Machinima: Be nice or neutral, and don't tell anyone we're paying you
- Thread starter atomsk
- Start date
oconnomiyaki
Member
Which is the interesting issue. The agreement/contract doesn't ask for commentary. It just says that you need to show some footage from an Xbox One game in the first two minutes, say it's from an Xbox One game/version, and not say anything disparaging against Machinima or Xbox. You could, in theory, start talking about anything else and meet criteria.
So if someone starts doing commentary on the Xbox One, where does the liability fall? The agreement hasn't asked for it.
Following on from the above, I can see why people are shitty. I'm not sure if this is just limited to Machinima partners, but say a Michelle Phan gets in on this and starts showing Xbox One footage at the start of her make-up tutorials. (Ludicrous, I know, but bear with me. She's also a gamer, FTR.) A watcher of her videos might make the assumption that Michelle is a fan of the Xbox One, and because they like Michelle, they'll check out this Xbox One because she seems to like it. Nothing has been said to imply this but the connection is made simply because it appears on her channel. It's why the whole thing is shady. The question is whether it's illegal.
Do we have something to prove precedence here?
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
At this point nothing surprises me with this scumbag company.
I'm sure they're also now paying publishers to keep parity between Xbone and PS4 versions of games. No doubt in my mind given how low they will go to beat Sony.
Can't believe some people defend this shit company after all they've done and have tried to do.
I'm sure they're also now paying publishers to keep parity between Xbone and PS4 versions of games. No doubt in my mind given how low they will go to beat Sony.
Can't believe some people defend this shit company after all they've done and have tried to do.
dreamer3kx
Member
Not surprised, MS being MS.
Chobel
Member
I'm sure the law will have legal definition of both of those terms. We're talking whether what doing MS is illegal or not. So legally speaking, Is what those influencers do an endorsement or not?
Clarkus Darkus
Member
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Mi...-Unlawful-According-FTC-Guidelines-61735.html
Hopefully the OP can add it too the first post before it gets lost in the thread.
Hopefully the OP can add it too the first post before it gets lost in the thread.
3rdamention
Member
Looks like they basically copied and pasted the Ars article, they are using Ars as the source.
breakfuss
Member
It is indefensible, and if true they need to be blasted for it. But let's not lose perspective. Tons of companies do this sort of thing, including our darling Sony (albeit in other arenas). This isn't some sort of flaw with MS.
No surprise here, it's all about deceiving the customer.
But the next time someone asks why nobody is giving Microsoft the benefit of the doubt at this moment, I'll just politely point to topics like this.
Sony's been caught doing shit similar to this in the past too, so point is... any youtube video is completely impossible to believe for impressions.
But the next time someone asks why nobody is giving Microsoft the benefit of the doubt at this moment, I'll just politely point to topics like this.
Sony's been caught doing shit similar to this in the past too, so point is... any youtube video is completely impossible to believe for impressions.
Law is an "as applied" field- you take what the statute says and apply it to circumstance, taking into account industry practice, precedent, and context depending on the facts.
Right now, what we have is contract says X, law says Y its illegal.
Maybe, but I don't even know that the contract actually says X, or if there are other ways to read it. The law says Y, but I don't know how it has been historically applied or if there are extenuating circumstances to consider.
Given the above, MS legal no doubt anticipated the issue that we are debating, and I have to believe that they accounted for it.
Thats basically all I'm saying.
JackDebian
Banned
As long as it has the approval of upper-management, Microsoft is going to force it's product into the market with all the sleazy money it can throw. They do this for just about every field they attempt to dominate. They have shown time and time again that they are willing to be the ultimate loss leader, bullying their way into whatever market they want to dominate, and clawing for success by hook or by crook.
I saw them do this in the 80's with the PC operating systems, I saw them do this in the 90's with the internet, and now in this millennium with console gaming. It may seem naive, but I just don't appreciate it. They wasted half a billion dollars marketing the original xbox, which failed to gain much traction in the market. Then they did it again for the 360, which finally paid off, after losing 7 billion or so overall. Sure, they brought an overall good gaming experience so far with all of their systems, but the way they pulled it off was just not respectable in my eyes.
I saw them do this in the 80's with the PC operating systems, I saw them do this in the 90's with the internet, and now in this millennium with console gaming. It may seem naive, but I just don't appreciate it. They wasted half a billion dollars marketing the original xbox, which failed to gain much traction in the market. Then they did it again for the 360, which finally paid off, after losing 7 billion or so overall. Sure, they brought an overall good gaming experience so far with all of their systems, but the way they pulled it off was just not respectable in my eyes.
I hope you have like, 34 fingers.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
Wow. MS... you are fucking stupid. Going to any length to push your console, even if that means to do something illegal.
BronsonLee
Member
It's limited to top Machinima partners and you have to use some hashtag in your video.
This is basically one step worse than the mommyblogger thing of 'I got free X, so I'll talk about it on my blog!' because it's actual money. And the mommyblogger swag does need to be disclosed, lest you get popped.
Also, shut up Peter.
Sword Of Doom
Member
Maybe not but it's certainly unethical
Chobel
Member
From Osiris post. http://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/...eed-to-know-about-ftc-rules-and-social-media/
------------------------
Basically you're saying there must be a loop hole that we're not seeing?
Yeah, but then you also wont realize that there is actually no reason to dislike them that much
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Microsoft would've made a great cigarette company years ago. No doubt they would've been paying doctors to claim their product was healthy.
SneakyStephan
Banned
I guess it's time to put machinima on the same shitlist as certain other publications now
Got it, though I don't agree with them using a thumbnail of AngryJoe in the original article about this, as he's yet to comment on the situation.
To be fair, he's still pretty busy clearing up the content ID mess from last month.
Most of these sites are just sourcing Ars, but if any other big ones report it, I'll update the OP. The more damning thing will be sites that *don't* report it.
What I want the media to investigate (lol), is whether they can find currently going on similar promotions from Sony or Nintendo with similar rules. Sony has been caught doin' fucked up things in the past (all i want for christmas comes to mind), but I want to know if the behavior is currently ongoing.
oconnomiyaki
Member
But nothing actually but a bunch of us armchair lawyers going back and forth?
It's why I said it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Also, you'd think by now we'd have more than PasteBin to go on. I guess Machinima partners are scared of getting the hammer.
I wouldn't use the term loop-hole, but yeah my guess is that this isn't the first contract of this sort they've drafted, I'm assuming that they've accounted for this issue.
IAmRandom31
Banned
And yet another reason why I will NEVER send a single dollar into the pockets of Microsoft.
I even have Linux on my company desktop. The moment I walked in and saw Windows XP. Told them I refuse to use the product and had them let me dual boot off Ubuntu lol.
I literally despise the company, as a whole, and have since the days of Netscape.
I even have Linux on my company desktop. The moment I walked in and saw Windows XP. Told them I refuse to use the product and had them let me dual boot off Ubuntu lol.
I literally despise the company, as a whole, and have since the days of Netscape.
SlowRevolution
Member
we'll probably get "This may sound slightly unethical of Microsoft, but there is a high probability that both Sony and Nintendo are also engaging in these practices."
I guess. It's just that they've done some questionable stuff.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
To be honest Chobel the dishonest attempts at parsing and semantic games from oconnomiyaki over so many pages leave me with little doubt as to the fruitlessness of continuing any discussion with him on this, he is free to believe what he wants, any further back and forth will only lead to derailment.
Let's get back to the ethics of the actions.
Those are far more interesting to me, the legal side will shake out however it does, should the FTC take it up, but the ethics, well, they are just as interesting a topic.
Let's get back to the ethics of the actions.
Those are far more interesting to me, the legal side will shake out however it does, should the FTC take it up, but the ethics, well, they are just as interesting a topic.
Its pretty gross ethically, not sure anyone would argue with that.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
Speedy Blue Dude
This Post Brought To You By the Microsoft Xbox One, The All-in-One Entertainment System
(Today, 06:51 PM)
Sword Of Doom
Member
This. And these things are changing the industry for the worse so I can't support a company that does this cause sure if I buy an Xbox One I'll get to enjoy great games like Titan Fall but in the long run I'm contributing in changing the industry into something I don't want it to become.
Thats a great point
digoutyoursoul
Member
I still enjoy their platform and games, I'd rather they stayed soley for those reasons.
Clarkus Darkus
Member
Yeah I agree, AJ shouldn't be used for the image of there thumbnail, And your right the ones that dont report on it will actually speak volumes about their own integrity. Interesting they may be breaking FTC rules.
All I want for Christmas is You by Mariah Carey is a great song by Sony BMG Music Entertainment!
boogie2988
Banned
I don't know if any other youtuber has weighed in on this. So I'm going to so... fuck if I ruin my career here, I'm sorry future self.
This kind of deal in the industry is common. When I was talking with Multi Channel Networks one of the big factors they wanted me to consider was who could get me the best add-on deals like this one. For me to play certain games or to try certain products, talk about them on my channel and get paid.
Beyond youtube though I've talked to other agents. A lot of people will remember that I sold some energy shots on my channel a few years back. Not a regrettable mistake because I still like and use the product, but a mistake none the less. The terms and conditions of that contract were very similar.
Due to youtube's very stringent gameplay policies, earlier last year I started acting as my own agent to get around the copyright machine by contacting companies directly to ask for review copies of games and written permission to monetize gameplay.
Several companies would say yes and ask for a contract similar to this one. Mostly I declined, but if it was a game that was already reviewing well that I was fairly certain I would love I agreed. If I played the game and didn't love it, I'd simply let them know I was not going to fullfill the contract and while it would burn a bridge with the company, everything was kosher.
Also a few times I said negative things about a game during a review and that meant I wasnt going to get whatever bonus was offered. That's ok though. My integrity is worth the money, honestly.
But this is pretty much how the whole "add-ons" from youtube thing works and this is pretty much what MCN's do. Its one of the reasons I've refused to be a part of one, out of fear I would HAVE to take part of a promotion for a game or product I wasnt already balls to the walls excited over.
I have taken part in such things, reviewing games that I knew I was already stoked about and was very likely to love. Please don't hate me for this. <3
But this is a step even further from that. I have certainly NEVER been offered an extra 3.00 per CPM for positive remarks about a fucking gaming system. holy shit. I can't say that I blame Microsoft for trying. Their system is pretty damned fun, me and my wife love ours, and popular perception needs to change. (where's my check lol) That said though; holy fuck.
I can see where if you were an xbox fan you'd jump at this. I can't say I'd blame you. But if this persuades someone on the fence, or an anti-xbox guy to jump ship... then this is entirely fucked.
But take it from someone on the inside; take everything you see on youtube with a grain of salt, especially if someone is partnered with a big network.
This kind of deal in the industry is common. When I was talking with Multi Channel Networks one of the big factors they wanted me to consider was who could get me the best add-on deals like this one. For me to play certain games or to try certain products, talk about them on my channel and get paid.
Beyond youtube though I've talked to other agents. A lot of people will remember that I sold some energy shots on my channel a few years back. Not a regrettable mistake because I still like and use the product, but a mistake none the less. The terms and conditions of that contract were very similar.
Due to youtube's very stringent gameplay policies, earlier last year I started acting as my own agent to get around the copyright machine by contacting companies directly to ask for review copies of games and written permission to monetize gameplay.
Several companies would say yes and ask for a contract similar to this one. Mostly I declined, but if it was a game that was already reviewing well that I was fairly certain I would love I agreed. If I played the game and didn't love it, I'd simply let them know I was not going to fullfill the contract and while it would burn a bridge with the company, everything was kosher.
Also a few times I said negative things about a game during a review and that meant I wasnt going to get whatever bonus was offered. That's ok though. My integrity is worth the money, honestly.
But this is pretty much how the whole "add-ons" from youtube thing works and this is pretty much what MCN's do. Its one of the reasons I've refused to be a part of one, out of fear I would HAVE to take part of a promotion for a game or product I wasnt already balls to the walls excited over.
I have taken part in such things, reviewing games that I knew I was already stoked about and was very likely to love. Please don't hate me for this. <3
But this is a step even further from that. I have certainly NEVER been offered an extra 3.00 per CPM for positive remarks about a fucking gaming system. holy shit. I can't say that I blame Microsoft for trying. Their system is pretty damned fun, me and my wife love ours, and popular perception needs to change. (where's my check lol) That said though; holy fuck.
I can see where if you were an xbox fan you'd jump at this. I can't say I'd blame you. But if this persuades someone on the fence, or an anti-xbox guy to jump ship... then this is entirely fucked.
But take it from someone on the inside; take everything you see on youtube with a grain of salt, especially if someone is partnered with a big network.
I know it sounds like a huge scandal, but the monetary value on these videos is only $3,750. It's not that big of a deal.
If you still tracking articles from other sites, one just popped up on the front page of yahoo.
http://games.yahoo.com/news/microsoft-reportedly-paid-youtube-video-makers-promote-xbox-201054010.html
http://games.yahoo.com/news/microsoft-reportedly-paid-youtube-video-makers-promote-xbox-201054010.html
lol these are pretty good
Good man.
Goodacre0081
Member
that's gold Jerry!, gold!
protonion
Member
How does this company make so much money?
How can a company with so much money resort to such ridiculus methods?
Show some class losers.
It's sad in way. When they leave this industry (they really seem to hate it ) ,what will be their legacy? They have all the money in the world. They could have left their mark and make our hobby better like... you know...EVERYONE else before them!
First chance I'm switching to Linux.
Fuck your billions.
How can a company with so much money resort to such ridiculus methods?
Show some class losers.
It's sad in way. When they leave this industry (they really seem to hate it ) ,what will be their legacy? They have all the money in the world. They could have left their mark and make our hobby better like... you know...EVERYONE else before them!
First chance I'm switching to Linux.
Fuck your billions.
toddhunter
Member
Thanks for sharing.
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