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[Lord Scrambles]

Soejima should just stick to human characters. That's his strength. His Personas just barely lick the heels of Kaneko's demons.

As I've stated before, I vastly prefer Soejima's Persona designs to even his human designs(and I REALLY like his human designs), the level of symbolism and customization to the characters they belong to is unmatched, especially with Kaneko who just seems to throw shit in there for the sake of "it looks cool." Soejima designs the Personas with a mythological basis in mind, but also holding the character who the Persona belongs to, and his/her personality as the primary inspiration, and that, to me, sets him above Kaneko as an artist for the Persona series

And don't get me wrong, I think Kaneko's a great artist, and I really appreciate his style when it comes to demons, but when it comes to Personas nobody comes close to Saviorjima.

hell nah, his non human designs(outside of shadow chie, which is probably his best work in general. fucking fantastic design)

Why, that's his most Kaneko-like one

...wait a minute, I'm starting to think you guys may be a little bit biased :O

 

[Lunar15]

Back to the ol' non realpic avatar.

PaulloDEC, what's interesting to me is that while it still has some fan-service, the original PS2 version of P4 has a slight bit less than P4G. P4G has a bunch of random scenes added to it (Rise performing for the school, the winter ski trip). I haven't played P4G, so I can't comment on it, but some people have mentioned that it does get a bit out of hand.

I agree with you on the mary sue Yu and the romance parts. They didn't significantly impact me, but they were still slightly disappointing. What's weird to me is that as much flak as this series gets for being that "waifu" RPG, it the actual 'romance' portion of the game is so small and insignificant. I really kind of wish they hadn't included it at all, but I guess that's what sells over there. I enjoyed the platonic parts of the relationships, and often the romance parts felt forced.

 

[Style]

Back to the ol' non realpic avatar.

Damn it.

 

[ScraftyDevil]

I'm seein' double here!

Four Narukamis!

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

As I've stated before, I vastly prefer Soejima's Persona designs to even his human designs(and I REALLY like his human designs), the level of symbolism and customization to the characters they belong to is unmatched, especially with Kaneko who just seems to throw shit in there for the sake of "it looks cool." Soejima designs the Personas with a mythological basis in mind, but also holding the character who the Persona belongs to, and his/her personality as the primary inspiration, and that, to me, sets him above Kaneko as an artist for the Persona series

And don't get me wrong, I think Kaneko's a great artist, and I really appreciate his style when it comes to demons, but when it comes to Personas nobody comes close to Saviorjima.

You made it seem like you wanted Soejima to do designs for the non main personas.

 

[Gazoinks]

(Incidentally, if anyone can explain to me what was supposed to be going on with Kanji, I'd love to hear it.)

The way I've always interpreted Kanji's arc is that it doesn't really have much to do with sexuality. It's about gender roles, basically. He's afraid that because he's into "unmasculine" things, that people will make fun of him, call him gay, etc. Which manifests in his shadow. The real point of his arc, I always felt, was that his sexuality doesn't matter. What he likes doesn't have to play into specific roles or define him as a specific thing. He's Kanji and these are things he likes. Not to say he's not gay, as it's left pretty vague (although I'd say it's more likely he's bi), but that the point of his arc is less about him dealing with his sexuality and more about him dealing with restricting gender roles.

I think I put this awkwardly because I'm tired, but hopefully you get the idea!

 

[Lord Scrambles]

You made it seem like you wanted Soejima to do designs for the non main personas.

Oh yeah I do, because the non-main Personas are still Personas, not demons. They should still be symbolic and detailed, in Soejima's own baroque-esque style.

I want to see how Soejima would design Odin, or Ishtar, or Titania, etc. etc, because those designs don't mean much more than, hey look that's how these mythological figures would look like if they were real. But I want Soejima to show me, what it means, to put on the Persona of Odin, with all his strength and wisdom in his art for example.

 

[PaulloDEC]

PaulloDEC, what's interesting to me is that while it still has some fan-service, the original PS2 version of P4 has a slight bit less than P4G. P4G has a bunch of random scenes added to it (Rise performing for the school, the winter ski trip). I haven't played P4G, so I can't comment on it, but some people have mentioned that it does get a bit out of hand.

I guess I can understand the added scenes for the benefit long-term fans, and actually the two scenarios you mentioned (ski trip and band performance) were actually totally fine with me. It's the scenes that only seem to exist for the purpose of titillation that bugged me, and they're only made worse by the girls constantly blushing and getting upset.

I agree with you on the mary sue Yu and the romance parts. They didn't significantly impact me, but they were still slightly disappointing. What's weird to me is that as much flak as this series gets for being that "waifu" RPG, it the actual 'romance' portion of the game is so small and insignificant. I really kind of wish they hadn't included it at all, but I guess that's what sells over there. I enjoyed the platonic parts of the relationships, and often the romance parts felt forced.

I'd have appreciated the romance stuff more if it wasn't so mixed up with the Mary-Sue Yu thing. I only had a romantic relationship with Chie during my run, and I couldn't help feeling like a creep the way she'd melt and blush and quiver every time we were alone for five seconds.

The platonic bits were great though, I've nothing but nice things to say about them.

 

[Soriku]

As I've stated before, I vastly prefer Soejima's Persona designs to even his human designs(and I REALLY like his human designs), the level of symbolism and customization to the characters they belong to is unmatched, especially with Kaneko who just seems to throw shit in there for the sake of "it looks cool." Soejima designs the Personas with a mythological basis in mind, but also holding the character who the Persona belongs to, and his/her personality as the primary inspiration, and that, to me, sets him above Kaneko as an artist for the Persona series

And don't get me wrong, I think Kaneko's a great artist, and I really appreciate his style when it comes to demons, but when it comes to Personas nobody comes close to Saviorjima.

Soejima throws random shit in there too sometimes like Izanagi with his zipper ball on his crotch lol. I think it's safe to say that, no matter who's designing them, there's going to be some weird shit involved with several of the designs.

Personally I think Kaneko captures the demons more. But other than that, his designs are just cooler to me.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

Oh yeah I do, because the non-main Personas are still Personas, not demons. They should still be symbolic and detailed, in Soejima's own baroque-esque style.

For example I want to see how Soejima would design Odin, or Ishtar, or Titania, etc. etc.

Kaneko's demon designs are very symbolic and true to the religion/gods they are based off of.

 

[Red The Hunter]

With Kanji, it's more than one thing in actually. While his shadow kinda talks about it at some length, his social link delves deeper into this aspect of him. Where in it's not really about his sexuality, it's more of finding out what it means to be a man, because he in actually like a lot of "unmasculine" things like sewing, knitting, cute things, and such behind that rough exterior. And as such, he feels like he will be rejected if people figured out those aspect about him, so that is why he acts tough like beating up the motorcycle gangs to show his masculinity.

 

[Moonlight]

Soejima makes some fantastic creature/non-human designs, I don't get how anyone could say otherwise. Izanagi, Caesar, Kaguya, and Konohana Sakuya are all Persona designs that really stick out for me. Admittedly, they're all humanoids, but I don't think we've seen enough of what Soejima could do with something utterly monstrous like what Kaneko generally deals in.

And am I the only one who has never been bothered by the art inconsistencies?

Goodbye, Realpic January.

Hellooooo, Risepic February!

Hell yeah. We're making it happen.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I guess I can understand the added scenes for the benefit long-term fans, and actually the two scenarios you mentioned (ski trip and band performance) were actually totally fine with me. It's the scenes that only seem to exist for the purpose of titillation that bugged me, and they're only made worse by the girls constantly blushing and getting upset.

Those scenes (as well as some of the more questionable, optional battle costumes) were also added in P4G and, yes, they're bad. It's a negative aspect of the game that I refrain from being too hard on since the original P4 didn't have those scenes and that was my first experience with the game.

 

[Lord Scrambles]

Soejima throws random shit in there too sometimes like Izanagi with his zipper ball on his crotch lol. I think it's safe to say that, no matter who's designing them, there's going to be some weird shit involved with several of the designs.

Sure he does, but when he does it, its a tiny blemish in an ocean of symbolism

Spoiler

,besides, I'm pretty sure I could come up with an interpretation for the zipper lol.

Can you tell me how this is supposed to be a part of Jun? Its an amazingly cool design, but it doesn't make sense in the context of Persona imo. Meanwhile, I can see a million reasons why this represents Junpei

And am I the only one who has never been bothered by the art inconsistencies?

you're not haha, I've been arguing against them for this whole page lol

 

[Soriku]

Soejima makes some fantastic creature/non-human designs, I don't get how anyone could say otherwise. Izanagi, Caesar, Kaguya, and Konohana Sakuya are all Persona designs that really stick out for me. Admittedly, they're all humanoids, but I don't think we've seen enough of what Soejima could do with something utterly monstrous like what Kaneko generally deals in.

And am I the only one who has never been bothered by the art inconsistencies?

He's definitely made some cool designs, but as for hypothetically redesigning all the Personas? No thanks.

Also I don't care in the slightest about the art inconsistency.

 

[Soriku]

Sure he does, but when he does it, its a tiny blemish in an ocean of symbolism

Spoiler

,besides, I'm pretty sure I could come up with an interpretation for the zipper lol.

Can you tell me how this is supposed to be a part of Jun? Its an amazingly cool design, but it doesn't make sense in the context of Persona imo

I haven't played P2 so I can't say. Actually I believe Kaneko's non-Persona designs are better than his Persona ones (from what I've seen).

Hades is pretty badass though.

 

[PaulloDEC]

The way I've always interpreted Kanji's arc is that it doesn't really have much to do with sexuality. It's about gender roles, basically. He's afraid that because he's into "unmasculine" things, that people will make fun of him, call him gay, etc. Which manifests in his shadow. The real point of his arc, I always felt, was that his sexuality doesn't matter. What he likes doesn't have to play into specific roles or define him as a specific thing. He's Kanji and these are things he likes. Not to say he's not gay, as it's left pretty vague (although I'd say it's more likely he's bi), but that the point of his arc is less about him dealing with his sexuality and more about him dealing with restricting gender roles.

I think I put this awkwardly because I'm tired, but hopefully you get the idea!

Thanks, I like that way of looking at it. I wish the game could've been a bit clearer about it, not because I'm necessarily against ambiguity, but because it looks at various times to be deliberately pointing in one direction only to change directions again later.

With Kanji, it's more than one thing in actually. While his shadow kinda talks about it at some length, his social link delves deeper into this aspect of him. Where in it's not really about his sexuality, it's more of finding out what it means to be a man, because he in actually like a lot of "unmasculine" things like sewing, knitting, cute things, and such behind that rough exterior. And as such, he feels like he will be rejected if people figured out those aspect about him, so that is why he acts tough like beating up the motorcycle gangs to show his masculinity.

Gotcha, that makes sense too. I didn't do much of Kanji's S-Link stuff, so I guess I probably missed out on a few important bits.

Those scenes (as well as some of the more questionable, optional battle costumes) were also added in P4G and, yes, they're bad. It's a negative aspect of the game that I refrain from being too hard on since the original P4 didn't have those scenes and that was my first experience with the game.

Honestly, they didn't greatly impact my enjoyment. I feel like they definitely could've been handled with a lighter touch to not be quite so voyeuristic, but they were usually funny too, so it wasn't all bad. Small chinks in a mostly excellent experience.

 

[Red The Hunter]

Sure he does, but when he does it, its a tiny blemish in an ocean of symbolism

Spoiler

,besides, I'm pretty sure I could come up with an interpretation for the zipper lol.

Can you tell me how this is supposed to be a part of Jun? Its an amazingly cool design, but it doesn't make sense in the context of Persona imo

I think well figure the symbolism of that persona, when we figure the symbolism of the pie-tin persona.

 

[Gazoinks]

Thanks, I like that way of looking at it. I wish the game could've been a bit clearer about it, not because I'm necessarily against ambiguity, but because it looks at various times to be deliberately pointing in one direction only to change directions again later.

His S.Link definitely clears it up a bit, but I do see it brought up a lot so it probably could have stood to be clearer about it. The one thing I really want from P5 is improvements to the S.Link system as a whole. It's a cool system, and a great idea, but it has issues that I'd love to see them work out.

And come on, man! Kanji is the best! Do his link!

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Can you tell me how this is supposed to be a part of Jun? Its an amazingly cool design, but it doesn't make sense in the context of Persona imo. Meanwhile, I can see a million reasons why this represents Junpei

Yeah, if there's anything the P3 and P4 main character Persona designs have over P1 and P2, it's that they actually represent their characters.

 

[PK Gaming]

Sure he does, but when he does it, its a tiny blemish in an ocean of symbolism

Spoiler

,besides, I'm pretty sure I could come up with an interpretation for the zipper lol.

Can you tell me how this is supposed to be a part of Jun? Its an amazingly cool design, but it doesn't make sense in the context of Persona imo. Meanwhile, I can see a million reasons why this represents Junpei



you're not haha, I've been arguing against them for this whole page lol

Virtually all of Kaneko's Persona designs have little or nothing to do with their respective character. Apollo is the only Persona that actually represents something; the rest either look cool or silly (mostly silly.)

 

[Lord Scrambles]

I haven't played P2 so I can't say. Actually I believe Kaneko's non-Persona designs are better than his Persona ones (from what I've seen).

Hades is pretty badass though.

Hades is SUPER badass, probably best Persona design out of Kaneko by a longshot, and it pretty accurately represents Eikichi ;D

 

[TurnipFritters]

it is symbolic because junpei is a bird

it is symbolic because chie fights with shoes

it is symbolic because ?????

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

^^^^Susano is just..... LMFAO

 

[TurnipFritters]

doesn't Naoto have one that's just straight up a Rose of Versailles character

 

[Style]

it is symbolic because ?????

Because Yosuke secretly wishes for an Afro.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

doesn't Naoto have one that's just straight up a Rose of Versailles character

Naoto has the worse looking persona in the game.

 

[Red The Hunter]

it is symbolic because ?????

It's Funky Student's Persona

 

[Trigger]

Virtually all of Kaneko's Persona designs have little or nothing to do with their respective character. Apollo is the only Persona that actually represents something; the rest either look cool or silly (mostly silly.)

This is more less how I feel. Much prefer Soejima's work.

 

[buddha0991]

Yasuda designs the best Personas

 

[Chet Rippo]

I wouldn't even go for that, and I'm on Japan prices!

Making me draw Oreimo characters requires that much dough.

 

[PaulloDEC]

His S.Link definitely clears it up a bit, but I do see it brought up a lot so it probably could have stood to be clearer about it. The one thing I really want from P5 is improvements to the S.Link system as a whole. It's a cool system, and a great idea, but it has issues that I'd love to see them work out.

And come on, man! Kanji is the best! Do his link!

I would've liked to, but once I'd decided to make Chie/Yosuke/Yukiko my primary team he kinda fell by the wayside. Add to that Marie (who I knew I'd need to max out to unlock

Spoiler

the Hollow Forest

) and Rise (who I wanted to level-up knowing that she was helping me in battle) and I eventually realised I wouldn't have the time.

It's a shame, cos I really dug the character.

it is symbolic because chie fights with shoes

This one has a kind of Samurai look to it, which fits with Chie's Kung-Fu movie fixation, no? The close-fitting top reminded me of her signature jacket, too.

it is symbolic because ?????

This guy looked a little like a clown to me, and Yosuke was kinda the clown of the group. Meh.

 

[TurnipFritters]

This one has a kind of Samurai look to it, which fits with Chie's Kung-Fu movie fixation, no?.

No.

Like, it's cool if y'all like how the base Personas tend to take certain aspects of the character's design (isn't Naoto's base Persona like, dressed just like Naoto, except with a stupid bug helmet?), but let's not pretend they're all ~deeply symbolic~ of the characters.

 

[Gazoinks]

This guy looked a little like a clown to me, and Yosuke was kinda the clown of the group. Meh.

As I recall from what Soejima said, the concept behind Yosuke's Personae is that they're what he thinks is totally cool, but Yosuke is a big dork so they're ridiculous-looking.

 

[Red The Hunter]

Naoto's ultimate persona in P4G is Yamato Sumerag

It's pretty much Rose of Versailles to a tee.

Spoiler

..though if Naoto's next ultimate persona turns into a car...

I'm leaving.

 

[buddha0991]

megami ibunroku persona has the deepest lore

 

[PK Gaming]

it is symbolic because junpei is a bird

it is symbolic because chie fights with shoes

it is symbolic because ?????

You're probably trying to be funny, but we're strictly talking about initial Persona's here. I don't think anyone here seriously thinks that the upgraded Persona are symbolic (with the exception of a few Persona) since they're basically Pokemon-styled evolutions.

Ironically, Trismegistus is one of those exceptions. It represents

Spoiler

Junpei's resolve to live for Chidori & himself after he gave up her life to revive him. The philosopher's stone is most likely a direct symbol of that resolve/his elixir of life. The 2 extra wings are obviously meant to reference to Trismegistus. (it means "Thrice Great")

Its design was deliberate.

 

[Lord Scrambles]

it is symbolic because junpei is a bird

keeps a lot of Hermes' symbolic elements, the addition of the red everywhere, plus the philosopher's stone on his beak have to do with (actual spoilers)

Spoiler

Chidori saving him bringing, him back to life, since you know, the philosopher's stone brings people to life and shiz,

Its also a bird because Tresmigestus was a Hermetic (classical and medieval religion) epithet for Hermes, one that originated in ancient Egypt as the Epithet of Thoth, whom the Greeks equated with Hermes and who also happened to be a bird

it is symbolic because chie fights with shoes

Warrior Woman/Kung Fu fighter/Action Hero cliches (all of which Chie fancies herself) , moving on

it is symbolic because ?????

This one I don't even have to make up shit for, in the artbook it's stated that, that's how Yosuke would imagine a storm god, the over-the-top craziness is probably just shit Yosuke thinks is cool.

 

[Gazoinks]

Spoiler

..though if Naoto's next ultimate persona turns into a car...

I'm leaving.

That would be amazing. Game of the year all years.

 

[PaulloDEC]

No.

Like, it's cool if y'all like how the base Personas tend to take certain aspects of the character's design (isn't Naoto's base Persona like, dressed just like Naoto, except with a stupid bug helmet?), but let's not pretend they're all ~deeply symbolic~ of the characters.

I'm totally new to all this, so I'm really just commenting on what I can see. Chie's Persona makes sense to me given her geeky/tomboyish personality on a purely visual level; cape like a superhero, double-bladed laser-sword straight out of Star Wars, Samurai gear from Kung Fu movies, non-feminine base outfit, etc.

Whether or not the creators intended any of those connections is another matter entirely!

As I recall from what Soejima said, the concept behind Yosuke's Personae is that they're what he thinks is totally cool, but Yosuke is a big dork so they're ridiculous-looking.

That works for me.

 

[TurnipFritters]

keeps a lot of Hermes' symbolic elements, the addition of the red everywhere, plus the philosopher's stone on his beak had to do with (actual spoilers)

Spoiler

Chidori saving him bringing, him back to life, since you know, the philosopher's stone brings people to life and shiz

Its also a bird because Tresmigestus was a Hermetic (classical and medieval religion) epithet for Hermes, one that originated in ancient Egypt as the Epithet of Thoth, whome the Greeks equated with Hermes and whom happened to be a bird

Your original statement was about their reflection of the characters, not the mythology they come from.

Warrior Woman/Kung Fu fighter/Action Hero cliches (all of which Chie fancies herself) , moving on.

This is kind of a cop out.

Also, Kung-fu is not Japanese, so perhaps we should not write it off as "Oh, she likes kung-fu movies so obviously her persona will dress in a vaguely historical Japanese style." I don't actually recall if Chie is just general martial arts enthusiast or if she was pretty much exclusively into foreign movies like Lisa.

 

[buddha0991]

I don't care if this has very little to do with Mark, it just plain looks badass compared to this symbolic as fuck wimp:

 

[Acid08]

Oh wow Yosuke's Personas are stupid looking and wimpy, weird imagine that.

 

[Lord Scrambles]

Your original statement was about their reflection of the characters, not the mythology they come from.



This is kind of a cop out.

Also, Kung-fu is not Japanese, so perhaps we should not write it off as "Oh, she likes kung-fu movies so obviously her persona will dress in a vaguely historical Japanese style." I don't actually recall if Chie is just general martial arts enthusiast or if she was pretty much exclusively into foreign movies like Lisa.

I'm pretty sure I also mentioned the mytological context, if only briefly

Soejima designs the Personas with a mythological basis in mind, but also holding the character who the Persona belongs to, and his/her personality as the primary inspiration, and that, to me, sets him above Kaneko as an artist for the Persona series

As to the whole Samurai thing: Oh come on dude, no matter how many Kung Fu movies she watches, Chie is still a Japanese country girl at heart, and her stereotype for a lone hero will always be that of the ronin fighting for justice in a world filled with lies

 

[Chet Rippo]

it is symbolic because ?????

A lame persona for a lame character. Makes sense to me.

 

[Soma]

"So let me get this straight, your Persona's name is Susan?"

 

[PK Gaming]

This one I don't even have to make up shit for, in the artbook it's stated that, that's how Yosuke would imagine a storm god, the over-the-top craziness is probably just shit Yosuke thinks is cool.

The design work was referring to Susano-o, so the jury's still out on why Takehaya-Susano-p (and the rest of the 3rd tiers) looks the way it does.

Oh wow Yosuke's Personas are stupid looking and wimpy, weird imagine that.

A lame persona for a lame character. Makes sense to me.

 

[TurnipFritters]

After looking at the Personas for P4, it looks like Soejima is way into peg legs.

 

[Chet Rippo]

This is kind of a cop out.

Also, Kung-fu is not Japanese, so perhaps we should not write it off as "Oh, she likes kung-fu movies so obviously her persona will dress in a vaguely historical Japanese style." I don't actually recall if Chie is just general martial arts enthusiast or if she was pretty much exclusively into foreign movies like Lisa.

Tomoe wears Bruce Lee's track suit. I don't think you could get more obvious than that.

 

[Lord Scrambles]

The design work was referring to Susano-o, so the jury's still out on why Takehaya-Susano-p (and the rest of the 3rd tiers) looks the way it does.

Well seeing as how its basically just Susano-o with everything turned up to 10, I'm pretty sure we can go with the same explanation.