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hikarutilmitt · Feb 22, 2018

Mattyp said:
Do older system break? All older systems are highly suspect-able to breakage, PS1,PS2 constant laser issues. I remember standing my PSX on its side even when it was new. PS3, YLOD. 360 RLOD... List goes on, this hardware won't last for ever and do you expect it to last another 10 years?

Why replace an older system at your own cost when the current newest one is more than capable?

Of course I am, the backlog of games grows every year with the dozens of releases we get and the older we get with less time. Everything gets remastered? There's thousands of games we get 5 remasters a year. Emulate? PS3 and 360?

Microsoft is making sure every game from every generation is playable 30 years down the line at this rate and its commendable. Anyone trying to spin it as a negative has some seriously questionable hate for the company. It costs you nothing. Why anyone in here tries to hate on a company for a free service on the protection of games continuing to be enjoyed for life I just can't explain anymore.

I seriously double, and don't see, anyone trying to spin XBO BC as a negative. There is no way to. The only things I see lately are questions about why it's important for a variety of reasons and the reasons companies may or may not do it. I mean, how many consoles in the past were BC easily? I'm sure I'm missing one or two, but:
Atari 2600 >7800
GB>GBC>GBA
GBA>DS
DS>3DS
GC>Wii
Wii>WiiU (Nintendo didn't keep the BC for GC)
PS1>PS2>PS3 (some models of PS3 for PS2)
PSP>Vita
OGXB>360 (only a very specific set of games)

So there's a history of BC, but a very specific history. Mostly handhelds, some specific cases of one gen to the next and that's it. Now we get to add a relatively extensive list of 360>XBO to that, and the discussion is coming up again.

It really feels like some of this recently is also spurred by the PS4 being hacked and hackers showing videos of different PS2 games running on the PS4. There may be reasons why this hasn't been done, monetary or not, but to assume one just because you have a boner against corporations seems silly. Yes this reads like a shill post, but I can assure you it's not.

BANGS · Feb 22, 2018

Praising Microsoft for their half assed attempt at backwards compatibility with the One is a bit misguided IMO... but it's certainly a step in the right direction and something that should be standard moving forward considering the hardware being used nowadays. It's especially scummy that Playstation hides their old games behind a streaming subscription service paywall instead of just letting you play the game properly. I know that it's not as simple as flicking a switch, but it should have been something invested in from the beginning....

For example, I'm hesitant to buy Yakuza 6 because I haven't played 3-5 and I'm behind on the story. I refuse to pay for the subscription service to play them, because I want full access to those games and only those games. I'd be more than willing to pay $20 a piece to download each game, then pay for 6.

That's $120 of my money Sony will NOT be getting when they easily could with a little effort. Instead they want that me to either keep my money or spend it on a service I have no interest in just to play 3 games... just bad business IMO...

koosa · Feb 22, 2018

BANGS said:
Praising Microsoft for their half assed attempt at backwards compatibility with the One is a bit misguided IMO.

In what way bc on one is ,,half assed''? It's the best implemenation of BC in console space. Your discs work, your old digital purchases work and show on ready to install list whenever a game goes bc, you have games from 8th, 7th and 6th gen on the same system, you get advantages like forced v-sync, improved framerate, game DVR and some other features if you have Scorpio. How they can make it better to impress some of you fanboys? Make ps3 and Demons souls bc on One? (ok, that would be dope

)

BANGS · Feb 22, 2018

koosa said:
In what way bc on one is ,,half assed''?

BC was launched years after the console itself and only supports certain games. It is great don't get me wrong(especially because it was a surprise nobody expected to happen when they first purchased the console), but it's nothing compared to PS3 which played PS1 and PS2 games right out of the box with very few issues. But of course Sony ruined that, too...

But yeah, anything short of launch PS3 level BC in today's age with today's tech is just half assed and inexcusable IMO. Again, it's not exactly easy, they do have to put some effort into it. But not putting in that effort is half assed IMO...

koosa said:
How they can make it better to impress some of you fanboys?

What exactly am I a fanboy of? Do you even know what that word means?

bufkus · Feb 22, 2018

I think backwards compatibility in the old sense is no longer necessary because of the digital era we're living in now.

What I want to see is not the ability for new systems to play older physical games, but for older games to be available for purchase and download and played via emulation. Like what Sony was already doing and what Nintendo seems to be doing now (with its Wii U rereleases on Switch).

I get that some people prefer actual BC so they can reuse their existing software, but let's be real, most people don't really bother with that.

jshackles · Feb 22, 2018

bufkus said:
I think backwards compatibility in the old sense is no longer necessary because of the digital era we're living in now.

What I want to see is not the ability for new systems to play older physical games, but for older games to be available for purchase and download and played via emulation. Like what Sony was already doing and what Nintendo seems to be doing now (with its Wii U rereleases on Switch).

I get that some people prefer actual BC so they can reuse their existing software, but let's be real, most people don't really bother with that.

In my opinion, Microsoft kinda has the best of both sides of your argument with their implementation. You can use your original disc for BC, but inserting it just prompts you to install the digital version of that game (which then requires the disc to launch). If you already own the game digitally, you can just download and play it.

Sony and Nintendo in your example above is leaving out one thing - and that is that you're having to repurchase the content even if you already own it digitally. That's like, the worst form of backwards compatibility.

BANGS · Feb 22, 2018

jshackles said:
Sony and Nintendo in your example above is leaving out one thing - and that is that you're having to repurchase the content even if you already own it digitally. That's like, the worst form of backwards compatibility.

And even worse, not even having some of last gen's greatest games available to purchase...

Imagine how much money Sony and Nintendo could rake in if you could play their entire libraries(excluding licencing issues and such) throughout history on their newest console...

Jigsaah · Feb 22, 2018

BANGS said:
Praising Microsoft for their half assed attempt at backwards compatibility with the One is a bit misguided IMO... but it's certainly a step in the right direction and something that should be standard moving forward considering the hardware being used nowadays. It's especially scummy that Playstation hides their old games behind a streaming subscription service paywall instead of just letting you play the game properly. I know that it's not as simple as flicking a switch, but it should have been something invested in from the beginning....

For example, I'm hesitant to buy Yakuza 6 because I haven't played 3-5 and I'm behind on the story. I refuse to pay for the subscription service to play them, because I want full access to those games and only those games. I'd be more than willing to pay $20 a piece to download each game, then pay for 6.

That's $120 of my money Sony will NOT be getting when they easily could with a little effort. Instead they want that me to either keep my money or spend it on a service I have no interest in just to play 3 games... just bad business IMO...

Half-assed attempt? Because not all games are available? Do you even understand they needed to emulate each game individually? Do you also understand that they had to get permission from publishers to have their game BC? Microsoft took a machine that was not designed to do backwards compatibility and engineered a way to make it backwards compatible. This is half assed?

I'm sorry man, you're just flat out wrong on that one. I dunno if you're a fanboy or not...but your entire premise is flawed buddy.

koosa · Feb 22, 2018

I've read too much crap from fanboys today, i see it's the same old shit, i thought new gaf would be better for gaming discussions, but it's like era, fuck you fanboys, doesnt matter if you're a nintendo/pc/sony/ms fanboy, you're still a worm, slimy pathetic worthless piece of crap. Can't you people enjoy games without shitting on others for their preferences? You all claim you're so progressive yet your bigotry shows in such meaningless shit like someone enjoying digital toys on a plastic box with a different brand than yours. Of course it's nowhere near as bad as racism or sexism, but the rule is the same, they are different from me, my safe space is endangered, let's shit on them. I voluunter for a ban, built happy community guys, best wishes to fans of GAMING. And to any corporate warriors out there, fuck you , you make me sick. Long live From Software, Arkane Games, Tango gameworks, gog.com and Suda51, screw NaughtyDog, 343 Industries and steam

Filben · Feb 22, 2018

WaterAstro said:
The launched with no BC, and they still don't have BC. If you bought a PS4 knowing that, then you can't really complain about their policy.

Of course I can, why shouldn't I? I want to play older I already own on my PS4. I can't, while other console did and still do support BC. PS4 doesn't offer that, which I dislike, and I really can complain about that.

A.Romero · Feb 22, 2018

I feel that I got enough games to play as it is so I don't miss BC that much. I had it on the OG PS3 and I used it a lot, though.

What really irks me is accessory compatibility/availability. I can't play my PS3 games now because all 5 controllers I had stopped working.

I know I can plug a DS4 but I don't want to have it connected with a cable nor lose rumble. My only option is to buy a knock off and I hate the idea.

I'd love BC and respect Microsoft for keeping it (even if it's partial). Much more effort than what Sony is doing. I'd pay the price of a PS4P for a PS4 that has BC, even without the 4k capability...

EverydayBeast · Feb 22, 2018

Simple, tunnel vision. There's an advantage to having a vast catalog of games to offer your customers though, through the online store.

Is blu ray going to be the format to die at the hands of digital and will it really be worth the added cost?

It depends how good the quality is. Right now streaming is easy to obtain, but isn't necessary the best quality.

Jigsaah · Feb 23, 2018

koosa said:
I've read too much crap from fanboys today, i see it's the same old shit, i thought new gaf would be better for gaming discussions, but it's like era, fuck you fanboys, doesnt matter if you're a nintendo/pc/sony/ms fanboy, you're still a worm, slimy pathetic worthless piece of crap. Can't you people enjoy games without shitting on others for their preferences? You all claim you're so progressive yet your bigotry shows in such meaningless shit like someone enjoying digital toys on a plastic box with a different brand than yours. Of course it's nowhere near as bad as racism or sexism, but the rule is the same, they are different from me, my safe space is endangered, let's shit on them. I voluunter for a ban, built happy community guys, best wishes to fans of GAMING. And to any corporate warriors out there, fuck you , you make me sick. Long live From Software, Arkane Games, Tango gameworks, gog.com and Suda51, screw NaughtyDog, 343 Industries and steam

Hey guy, we're over here. I'm sure nobody across the Grand Canyon cares what you're saying while their trying to snap selfies while hanging over the railing. Join the conversation. Be specific.

ReBurn · Feb 23, 2018

WaterAstro said:
It does have everything to do with this thread because it is the reason why PS4 won't have BC. Shuhei Yoshida said in an E3 2015 interview that they're not going to have BC and rather focus on new experiences.

That's just PR doublespeak to downplay the fact that Sony's plan was to use the PS2 emulator they created for PS4 as a way to get people to re-buy the games they already own. If they were focused on new experiences there would be no PS2 pay for play emulator and there wouldn't be so many remastered games from Sony's past catalog. They want people to pay for their favorite games many times over.

Achelexus · Feb 23, 2018

Honestly I just take the lack of backwards compatibility as "please emulate our older systems."

12Dannu123 · Feb 23, 2018

It's going to be a big problem for Sony to maintain BC of PS ecosystem overtime, this is all due to the OS architecture that they designed with. Xbox games are designed inside a VM, which therefore results in Xbox consoles maintaining compatibility in situations where there are architecture changes.

12Dannu123 · Feb 23, 2018

Nintendo Switch said:
There is no reason that a MS handheld wouldn’t be able to play all games that the Xbox One can run. All of their software runs on an OS, nothing is coded to metal. A 5nm AMD APU could easily match the Xbox Ones performance.

You won’t need to rebuy the games, everything you own on Xbox store will be there for you ready to play on the go. Make it a smartphone with slide out controls and the thing would sell gangbusters.

Gamezone said:
Console generations have to die. It's about time Microsoft do a successful version of Valve's Steam box, where everything that is working on their console also works on Windows PC.

Jigsaah said:
Is this post just one big..."stop beating up on Sony" argument?

Sony already did full backwards compatibility on the PS3 80gig original SKU. All the way back to PS1. Are you forgetting this? There is no advantage...it's got nothing to do with how talented the programmers are. This has to do with one thing....money.

Microsoft has an advantage in that they are innately more consumer friendly than Sony. Period. End of sentence. Hands down.

Sony bought Gaikai and went the PSNow route...trying to charge gamers to rebuy old games essentially. No one argues that PSNow is a fantastic service. It's overpriced, underdeveloped and the input lag...come on. The library may be the only advantage, especially if you were hardcore 360 last gen. Even then, Game Pass allows you to fully download games just like EA Access does. You basically own the game until you unsubscribe. It's cheaper, but the library is kinda meh right now. But the promise is there because of Microsoft's yet again super stupid consumer friendly move to include all future exclusives day one on Game Pass.

Sony used hardware to ensure compatibility, which therefore drove up prices. Microsoft used software to ensure compatibility, so it everything to do with talent and programmers.

batman2million · Feb 23, 2018

BANGS said:
Praising Microsoft for their half assed attempt at backwards compatibility

Have to disagree. What MS did, on a technical level is astonishing. Not to mention the OG Xbox game implementation. And I know that they only supported a couple of X360 games, but the 4k implementation of some of the games is a great plus.

The_Mike · Feb 23, 2018

hikarutilmitt said:
I seriously double, and don't see, anyone trying to spin XBO BC as a negative.

Not in this thread, but I have seen it on Reddit. “I think it’s good Sony focuses on new games instead of BC” and “MS only has old games”.
Thankfully the discussion is on a better level in here.

FranXico · Feb 23, 2018

It's fascinating to see how short people's memory is.

BC used to be standard, and Sony dropped it mid PS3 cycle because consumers didn't care that the PS3 had superior BC to what the 360 offered back then. They had to drop the console price, nevermind the hidden cost of online play from the competition product.
Then remasters became a thing and once again, consumers approved it with their wallet.

People are nowadays talking about this as if Microsoft invented the concept and Sony has always resold old games.

FranXico · Feb 23, 2018

batman2million said:
Have to disagree. What MS did, on a technical level is astonishing. Not to mention the OG Xbox game implementation. And I know that they only supported a couple of X360 games, but the 4k implementation of some of the games is a great plus.

They outsorced the 360 emulator. Technically, they aren't the ones who made it. And yes, it is impressive.

hiphopcr · Feb 23, 2018

batman2million said:
Have to disagree. What MS did, on a technical level is astonishing. Not to mention the OG Xbox game implementation. And I know that they only supported a couple of X360 games, but the 4k implementation of some of the games is a great plus.

And all free. Games I purchased digitally on 360 magically appear in my library. It's as perfectly implemented as it is consumer friendly.

MickeyPhree said:
I didn't buy an Xbox one for backwards compatibility, but I have used it to play fallout 3, new Vegas, and Dark Souls. If MS can keep BC in there systems going forward, there's a very good chance I stick with them.

This. Knowing my entire Xbox library (going back to OG Xbox) carries over with me going forward, and will player better on better hardware, makes me a lifelong consumer.

BANGS · Feb 23, 2018

Jigsaah said:
Half-assed attempt? Because not all games are available? Do you even understand they needed to emulate each game individually? Do you also understand that they had to get permission from publishers to have their game BC? Microsoft took a machine that was not designed to do backwards compatibility and engineered a way to make it backwards compatible. This is half assed?

I'm sorry man, you're just flat out wrong on that one. I dunno if you're a fanboy or not...but your entire premise is flawed buddy.

Because ALOT of games aren't available, and they didn't even try at launch and decided to do this to bring back all the business and exclusives they were losing. This is an apology feature. I'm not arguing that it's bad or anything, it's actually pretty awesome. Still a pretty half assed way to go about it though.

My point isn't that we shouldn't give credit to Microsoft for trying, my point is that we shouldn't praise them as "good guy microsoft" like they would have done this at all if Xbone was half as successful as they hope it'd be...

batman2million said:
Have to disagree. What MS did, on a technical level is astonishing. Not to mention the OG Xbox game implementation. And I know that they only supported a couple of X360 games, but the 4k implementation of some of the games is a great plus.

Yes, it is pretty great what they're doing. If only they had invested in this before launch of the console itself and not so late into it's life...

hiphopcr · Feb 23, 2018

BANGS said:
Because ALOT of games aren't available, and they didn't even try at launch and decided to do this to bring back all the business and exclusives they were losing.

Yes, it is pretty great what they're doing. If only they had invested in this before launch of the console itself and not so late into it's life...

It's funny that three years later you're still complaining that backwards compatibility came a year after launch.

Koala Driving a Ferrari · Feb 23, 2018

BANGS said:
...If only they had invested in this before launch of the console itself and not so late into it's life...

They did. It was started all the way back in 2011 but it wasn't ready for the launch of the Xbone due to engineering issues. Read Ryan Mccafrey's fantastic article on IGN on the Xbox One's backwards compatibility program and educate yourself before speaking so definitively about something that you're clearly not educated on:

As Durango crystallized, so too did plans for Xbox 360 compatibility on the new machine.
"We had to bake some of the backwards compatibility support into the [Xbox One] silicon. This was done back in 2011."

If we'd have gone with the [Xbox] 360 SOC [system on a chip], we likely would've landed at just parity,” he said. “The goal was never just parity.” So they built the XMA and texture formats into the Xbox One chipset.

And because the team sought a solution beyond "just" Xbox 360 emulation parity, it has allowed for:

"Xbox 360 games getting Scorpio-powered enhancements like 10-bit color depth, anisotropic filtering, and up to 9x additional pixel counts displayed on screen" [In addition to the improvements already featured on the OG Xbox One, like forced v-sync and improved frame-rates.]

In another article it's been mentioned that OG Xbox One resolution improvements for Xbox 360 games are being investigated as well (presumably to 1080p instead of 4k, like on the X). I'll attempt to find the quote and add it here later.

BANGS said:
...This is an apology feature. I'm not arguing that it's bad or anything, it's actually pretty awesome. Still a pretty half assed way to go about it though.

BANGS · Feb 23, 2018

hiphopcr said:
It's funny that three years later you're still complaining that backwards compatibility came a year after launch.

November 2013 to June 2015 is only a year now? Nice...

Koala Driving a Ferrari said:
They did. It was started all the way back in 2011 but it wasn't ready for the launch

batman2million · Feb 23, 2018

FranXico said:
They outsorced the 360 emulator. Technically, they aren't the ones who made it. And yes, it is impressive.

I did not know this. Do you know who did it?

BANGS said:
es, it is pretty great what they're doing. If only they had invested in this before launch of the console itself and not so late into it's life...

Damned if you, damned if you don't.
That fact that they did it, offered it without a cost, and have done a quality job outweighs the fact of it being "so late." I also think that the x1 has a good 2-3 years left in it.

BANGS · Feb 23, 2018

batman2million said:
That fact that they did it, offered it without a cost, and have done a quality job outweighs the fact of it being "so late."

Of course, I would never argue otherwise...

ReBurn · Feb 23, 2018

12Dannu123 said:
It's going to be a big problem for Sony to maintain BC of PS ecosystem overtime, this is all due to the OS architecture that they designed with. Xbox games are designed inside a VM, which therefore results in Xbox consoles maintaining compatibility in situations where there are architecture changes.

On the PS3 Sony ran different processes within hypervisors. GameOS and OtherOS were separated through virtualization. I'd be really surprised if the PS4's gameplay wasn't done in a hypervisor as well. If it isn't it probably wouldn't be hard to do.

Virtualization is not insulation from hardware differences. It takes significant software engineering to create and maintain that virtualization layer because something still has to know how to talk to the hardware. The good thing is that lack of exotic architecture in current consoles makes that task less challenging. Microsoft's work here is still complex and expensive. Sony probably just doesn't see the justification in investing in it.

Jigsaah · Feb 23, 2018

BANGS said:
Because ALOT of games aren't available, and they didn't even try at launch and decided to do this to bring back all the business and exclusives they were losing. This is an apology feature. I'm not arguing that it's bad or anything, it's actually pretty awesome. Still a pretty half assed way to go about it though.

My point isn't that we shouldn't give credit to Microsoft for trying, my point is that we shouldn't praise them as "good guy microsoft" like they would have done this at all if Xbone was half as successful as they hope it'd be...

Yes, it is pretty great what they're doing. If only they had invested in this before launch of the console itself and not so late into it's life...

Wut? So because a lot of games aren't available this makes it half-assed? They didn't even try? They were releasing games like every other week. Not to mention they would release games and then put them on Games with Gold so members wouldn't even have to pay for them if they didn't already own them. Apology feature? Wtf are they apologizing for? The only purpose for this was to increase the value of the Xbox One. Don't say because it's ecause of the launch of the X1 and the DRM fiasco they tried to pull. They apologized for that years ago. Is it because of the power difference between Xbox One and the PS4? Are they apologizing for the lack of 100 or so "p"? I'm pretty the X1X was enough of an apology there, which was in developlment since the launch of the Xbox One. Help me to understand your logic BANGS.

Ok and pardon my asking but are you schizophrenic? It's pretty great but it's also half-assed? What kinda side ways bs is this?

BANGS · Feb 23, 2018

I'm sorry but I'm not going to just keep repeating myself over and over again because some defensive fanboys don't wanna hear it... and then I'll be the one in the end labeled the troll...

I've already explained it thoroughly in previous posts, go back and read them if you wish. It is ok to disagree...

Pachi72 · Feb 25, 2018

pr0cs said:
If Microsoft had BC at launch I would have likely not bought a ps4, as it stands Sony would rather milk remasters so I've basically abandoned both consoles and am sticking to pc this gen. I cannot trust companies that are happy to orphan my digital purchases from gen to gen

I'll take a real Remaster over emulation any day,

The_Mike · Feb 25, 2018

Cubamus Prime said:
I'll take a real Remaster over emulation any day,

I’m curious - why?

Fallout 3 even looks better than Fallout 4 on the X.

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