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Digital Foundry criticize Sony's communciation about cross gen titles
- Thread starter SlimySnake
- Start date
FunkMiller
Banned
The absolute worst thing for the hardcore console warriors is when both companies end up doing exactly the same shit. They get very confused, cross, and need a long nappy time with their favourite comfort blanket.
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anthony2690
Member
But let's be honest we ALL know these are much smaller games in terms of budget and scope compared to the next Horizon, God of war and Gran Turismo.
I'm more curious if these cross gen titles will be £50 or £70...
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Banjo64
cumsessed
I'm glad that PS4 players will get to play these games as well.
Jimbo got a bit carried away in one interview, whoop-de-do.
The only people with egg on their faces are the few warriors who went nuts on Jimbo's words and were laughing at Xbox's cross gen policy. Overall it's not a big deal at all.
Jimbo got a bit carried away in one interview, whoop-de-do.
The only people with egg on their faces are the few warriors who went nuts on Jimbo's words and were laughing at Xbox's cross gen policy. Overall it's not a big deal at all.
longdi
Banned
basically this.
If sony cut off ps3 back then, why are they dragging their feets for ps4. we are talkin 2023.
Its jimbo.
As i feared, guy's an accountant through and through. financially it makes sense, at least while he is in charge.
Longer term, it may turn off the core fans.
so there we have it, jaguar cpu and cerny ssd not fully utilise.
Strider Highwind
Banned
Its just confirmation bias at it's finest. Both sides will call an outlet a shill when that outlet isn't saying it's going their way - its just like politics lol
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
This is the best self avatar quote ive seen in a while.
Strider Highwind
Banned
Exactly lol. The truth is that both console makers are doing the same damn thing because it appeases their bottom line. Thats all it is, nothing more to it, and all these fights and stuff that happen on these forums just look corny.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
ahh, I see. Well, Ratchet isn't cross gen, Returnal isn't either. So you're saying they are only worried about the huge games and so they will make those cross-play just to profit?
I mean is the worry that God of War Ragnarok won't be all it could be because it has to go on PS4 as well? Same with Horizon?
I dunno, I think that if the design of the game doesn't require the benefits the SSD brings, then shouldn't a scaled down version of the game be fine for the PS4 without hurting the production value of the PS5 release?
kingpotato
Ask me about my Stream Deck
I don't know about that. Early PS5 adopters got:
An extra game or two every month with ps+ subscriptions
Access to 20 games as part of the PS+ collection on PS5
Free performance updates for several first party titles
A commitment to making sure almost all PS4 games are playable on PS5
An assortment of PS5 exclusives and timed exclusives including Demon's souls remake, Returnal and Astro's Playroom
PS5 also let's users watch 4k Bluray discs and is much quieter than the PS4 pro
Compelling enough without worrying about the promise of the future for most.
SLB1904
Banned
Cough cough mlb the show
Salty Popsicle
Banned
It means there are no gameplay mechanics shown that couldn't have been accomplished on PS4/Pro. Apart from improved visuals and a 60fps mode, it looks like your run-of-a-mill sequel.
iJudged
Banned
GymWolf
Member
This is a good question and nobody has the correct answer, it is too personal.
I don't think that anyone in here seriously thought about suicide during the first 2 years of ps3\ps4 era when exclusives were scarce tho, we waited and played other things.
I mean, let's be serious for a moment, 2-3-4 big sony exclusives in a year are like what, 10% (or less) of what an hardcore gamer play in that period of time?! even without them you still play 90% of third parties, we are far from not having anything to play even without major sony exclusives for the first 2 years...
If you read a list of confirmed 2021 most hyped games, the majority are third party games.
And even with that in mind, you still had demons, returnal, ratchet, morales plus a lot of third parties, not having horizon in 2021 but in 2023 is literally a matter of ONE GAME, and 2 games in 2022 with gow\gt7, are we really discussing about 3 games in 2 years in here??
If you put that in perspective you can understand how delaying gow, gt and horizon for nextgen only is far from a big deal in the big scheme of things.
Microsoft situation is different, they didn't had that constant flow of good exclusives like sony, they have far more to prove and their fanbase is in a far worse position.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Cory and SSM designers had talked about how they wanted GoW boss fights to be far bigger in scale with Kratos and Baldur punching each other across levels into mountains. They wanted to switch realms on the fly. Even in 2018 they were held back by their own accounts.
NickFire
Member
I gave the video about ten minutes and did not observe anything that I classify as outrage. But if you just mean to point out they talked about the potential impact, that is correct.
FunkMiller
Banned
There was a time several years ago when you could have made a decent argument that Sony were conducting themselves in a better manner than Microsoft when it came to both messaging and business practises. However they are both down in the same shit pit these days alongside one another.
And they also count on these idiotic console wars to continue, as all the time gamers are fighting among themselves, they are allowing these shitty business practises to continue.
SaucyJack
Member
So let me get this right.
PlayStation studios is about to releases its 10th title of this generation so far. These comprise 5 PS5 only, 2 Remasters and 3 Cross-Gen. The suggestion that 2 more of the 20-odd titles in development may also be cross-gen somehow makes them deceitful.
By contrast Xbox studios have released zero Series X|S only titles and cross-gen title.
For some reason PlayStation is the one doing it wrong?
Edit: apparently I forgot about Gears Tactics.
PlayStation studios is about to releases its 10th title of this generation so far. These comprise 5 PS5 only, 2 Remasters and 3 Cross-Gen. The suggestion that 2 more of the 20-odd titles in development may also be cross-gen somehow makes them deceitful.
By contrast Xbox studios have released zero Series X|S only titles and cross-gen title.
For some reason PlayStation is the one doing it wrong?
Edit: apparently I forgot about Gears Tactics.
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StreetsofBeige
Member
The reason why Ragnarok and GT7 were announced cross gen now is because it's about a year after last years summer show.
At that time, Horizon 2, Raganrok and GT7 were hyped to be PS5 games. September comes around and Horizon 2 is cross gen. A week ago, Ragnarok and GT7 are cross gen.
If they announced during last summer's show all these games are cross gen PS4/PS5, they would had got grilled on the spot. But spread it out and its not as bad.
FatKingBallman
Banned
You think people care about that when next-gen title Ratchet is coming in few days?
Captain Toad
Banned
Right. Rift Apart looks like a budget game. Probably made by one guy during his lunch breaks. /s
Faithless83
Banned
There is a problem with troll comments like yours.
To everyone that doesn't understand Street Fighter, every game looks the same gameplay wise.
Like every Gran Turismo, or Fifa, or Gears of War looks the same.
If you're going to troll, at least try harder.
skit_data
Member
I didn't listen to it all but I found it pretty funny that John's argument for "why previous gen wasn't as bad" pretty much is Sonys approach:
There were crossgen games on the Xbox One, but there was also actual next gen only releases.
Riky
$MSFT
So let me get this right.
PlayStation studios is about to releases its 10th title of this generation so far. These comprise 5 PS5 only, 2 Remasters and 3 Cross-Gen. The suggestion that 2 more of the 20-odd titles in development may also be cross-gen somehow makes them deceitful.
By contrast Xbox studios have released zero Series X|S only titles and zero cross-gen titles.
For some reason PlayStation is the one doing it wrong?
Gears Tactics came out with the console.
kingpotato
Ask me about my Stream Deck
Bear*Walken*the*Sweeper
Member
You're right. I'd be good either way.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Jim Ryan also said this.
Horizon Forbidden West Built from the 'Ground Up' for PS5
Despite also being on PS4
www.pushsquare.com
One year later this is how the GG devs described their game.
Straight up lying. Horizon started dev on PS4 and is a PS4 title through and through. Sackboy and Miles we already know. Literally identical save for some graphical upgrades. This guy is so dishonest he should work at Enron.
rickybooby87
Member
How is this even a thread?
Some of you are really bad at reading/comprehension and it shows:
"We have always said that we believe in generations. We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include. And that, in our view, people should make games that can make the most of those features.
"We do believe in generations, and whether it's the DualSense controller, whether it's the 3D audio, whether it's the multiple ways that the SSD can be used... we are thinking that it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5."
Where does it say, no more cross gen titles?
Having finished up Horizon Zero Dawn this weekend, I can tell you that I am not worried by the fact that Forbidden West will be cross gen as it looks fantastic and 10x better than HZD visually.
HZD and GOW released in 17' and 18', long before there was a PS5 devkit. Think about it, what were they developing the sequels on then? Are you following?
I still believe that GT7 being cross gen is a case of someone misspeaking, as all of the promotional footage showed it as an exclusive, and as of few minutes ago, Sony has still not updated the page for GT7 over at PlayStation, still says PS5.
Look at Horizon Forbidden West, it says "PS5 | PS4" over at PlayStation.
Some of you are really bad at reading/comprehension and it shows:
"We have always said that we believe in generations. We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include. And that, in our view, people should make games that can make the most of those features.
"We do believe in generations, and whether it's the DualSense controller, whether it's the 3D audio, whether it's the multiple ways that the SSD can be used... we are thinking that it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5."
Where does it say, no more cross gen titles?
Having finished up Horizon Zero Dawn this weekend, I can tell you that I am not worried by the fact that Forbidden West will be cross gen as it looks fantastic and 10x better than HZD visually.
HZD and GOW released in 17' and 18', long before there was a PS5 devkit. Think about it, what were they developing the sequels on then? Are you following?
I still believe that GT7 being cross gen is a case of someone misspeaking, as all of the promotional footage showed it as an exclusive, and as of few minutes ago, Sony has still not updated the page for GT7 over at PlayStation, still says PS5.
Look at Horizon Forbidden West, it says "PS5 | PS4" over at PlayStation.
Strider Highwind
Banned
I totally agree. I pointed out a few weeks ago how I felt like the PR Departments for these consoles are doing a horrible job...We've found out so much from "insiders" and "leaks" with respect to both MS and Sony over the last year and a half so much that it's gotten laughable. The entire Sony PS4/Xbox One era kicked off with sony nailing the messaging..its what made the pS4 such a huge explosion when it was being announced..now we hear 10 things from 10 different leakers, and Sony/MS put out weak press releases that feel like they were forced into telling us bad news lol
SLB1904
Banned
I don't know man but I have feeling you are just wrong. Maybe because I play the first game and know its limitations.
Just to be sure:
Is their messaging "Wait for E3"? Because that's the only message I'm getting since almost a decade.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
Hmmm, well that's...unfortunate. So what are we suggesting here. That maybe the guys with the big hats (namely Jim) basically said that the things the designers wanted was a no go, simply because the game has to come out on PS4?
If that's the case, then yea, that sucks.
anthony2690
Member
I never once said that, before you try twist my words
I said the budget and scope is smaller than God of War, Horizon and Gran Turismo.
Pedro Motta
Gold Member
Alienating a 120 Million PS4's userbase + forcing them to get the new machine (that's near impossible to get) to play their hit bangers is BAD BUSINESS.
Us tech nerds that enjoy the best graphics and jerk off to new cool mechanics suffer from this, but that's life.
Running a business has these quirks, you can't predict everything, you make mistakes when you're over optimistic, if you make a mistake you're a liar.
But maybe, just maybe if any of you were running a business and had over 2000 or 3000 families (probably more) under your belt, you would make the right decision, even if get called a lying douchbag on the media.
Us tech nerds that enjoy the best graphics and jerk off to new cool mechanics suffer from this, but that's life.
Running a business has these quirks, you can't predict everything, you make mistakes when you're over optimistic, if you make a mistake you're a liar.
But maybe, just maybe if any of you were running a business and had over 2000 or 3000 families (probably more) under your belt, you would make the right decision, even if get called a lying douchbag on the media.
SLB1904
Banned
It would be pretty easy. Sony was doing those bloombergs articles. They could just straight up be upfront.
If they said these games would be cross gen because the team had to work instead of waiting for the final ps5 specs. Then release the trailers and blow everyone's mind. Easy
SaucyJack
Member
Sorry, I stand corrected.
Xbox Studios have released zero Xbox Series X|S only games and one cross-gen title.
FunkMiller
Banned
The DF guys are spot fucking on here in every respect.
Designing games for nine year old hardware hamstrings them completely, other than in superficial areas.
And it's a practise wholly without creative or artistic merit, and is purely driven by corporate greed.
If you're apologising for this shit from either console manufacturer, you need a long hard look in the mirror. You're excusing - and indeed sanctioning - the idea that profit should be the main motivator in games design. This will lead to the industry stagnating and becoming creatively bankrupt.
Designing games for nine year old hardware hamstrings them completely, other than in superficial areas.
And it's a practise wholly without creative or artistic merit, and is purely driven by corporate greed.
If you're apologising for this shit from either console manufacturer, you need a long hard look in the mirror. You're excusing - and indeed sanctioning - the idea that profit should be the main motivator in games design. This will lead to the industry stagnating and becoming creatively bankrupt.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This is where Sony needs to be better. Just announce it as a cross gen game on 1st reveal and none of this is an issue. I'm 100% sure that they want that PS5 excitement when first revealed though.
FunkMiller
Banned
That's exactly what's going on. And the same conversation happened at XBox too.
GameSeeker
Member
I agree with DF on this point. The communication on cross-gen titles by Sony was horrible. As a Day 1 PS5 owner, I'm happy to pay full price for PS5 titles (e.g., Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart). For cross-gen PS4 titles (e.g., HFW), I'll wait till the games are at a 50% or better discount before buying. This applies to all publishers on PS5, not just Sony. I didn't buy a PS5 to play cross-gen titles, so I'll happily give my money to those studios/publishers pushing next-gen only games.
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John is always good and consistent.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Calling out stuff before actually seeing it, just *ASSUMING* what it could possibly be is irresponsible and frankly insulting. Because It implies technique and ingenuity in engineering smart scaling techniques/solutions is unimportant compared to just throwing everything at the highest spec profile.
Sadly about what I'd expect from the jumped-up amateurs at DF, who are nowhere near as smart as they like to posture themselves as being. They just aren't.
And if you think I'm being petty and/or bitchy about DF without reason, allow me to direct you to compare their commentary to people like Cherno or NXGamer who actually know what they are talking about. There is a very clear distinction.
Sadly about what I'd expect from the jumped-up amateurs at DF, who are nowhere near as smart as they like to posture themselves as being. They just aren't.
And if you think I'm being petty and/or bitchy about DF without reason, allow me to direct you to compare their commentary to people like Cherno or NXGamer who actually know what they are talking about. There is a very clear distinction.
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FatKingBallman
Banned
Really was from the start? Phil Spencer : i don't like exclusives, bam, bought the whole publisher. Phil Spencer last year : you'll see a truly creative freedom on Xbox, bam, CGI fest and then Halo Infinite showcase....
For some reason people here are IGNORING Demon's Souls, Astro, Returnal and soon Ratchet as next-gen only titles. :/
Funny thing is how DF for some reason didn't made a video about lack of 1st party games for XSX launch.
How about delivering games instead of spewing 12 TF RDNA 2 full power and what not like Spencer.
Yeah, they knew. But i think you also know when first versions of PS5 devkits arrived. Pretty sure you know this.
Backfired? Where? Sales are slowing down, gamers are smashing their PS5s, they stop playing games, Sony discontinued PS5...? Really backfired on what?
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GymWolf
Member
I don't care if it sound cringe, but my heart literally cry for all the big missed occasions with these 2 games.
I dreamed about a massive battle with a lot of humans, dinobot and a giant horus (or multiple) with massive distruction in horizon 2 but we can forget that, or if present, it's gonna be severely limited in scope.
Darwinning
Banned
Why the outrage on this point? I really not seeing why "We believe in generations" equals "all future games will be PS5 only" ? Seems to me that people are putting words in Jim Ryan's mouth.
Add to that.... Sony has already produced Returnal, Demon's Souls, and R&C... which are PS5 exclusives.
Did I miss a specific quote about this?
Add to that.... Sony has already produced Returnal, Demon's Souls, and R&C... which are PS5 exclusives.
Did I miss a specific quote about this?
FatKingBallman
Banned
Underdelivering for years? Really? 1st party games from Sony says hello. Only Xbox fan would say something that stupid. Of course, but Xbox is awesome, GOTYs everywhere. GOTYs every month on Xbox. :/
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Strider Highwind
Banned
Yeah they did. They did an 11 minute segment of a larger video in the op about the PS5/PS4 cross gen, but last year they did an entire video criticizing Microsoft for it. In the video in the OP where they criticize Sony, Richard even kicks it off with "The same way we did with Microsoft Last year"
Heres the video though it seems some of you missed it for some strange reason. They bring up first party examples, third party examples, and just about every other reason they were disappointed.
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Jigsaah
Gold Member
Anemic backwards compatibility says hello back.
I never said Xbox is awesome. They aren't the subject of this conversation. In terms of BC, Xbox is doing much better than Sony, that much is undeniable. They still have an issue with 1st party releases though and so it makes BC look like a crutch rather than a feature IMO.
Personally, I game mainly on PC if you care. I'm just putting that out there because you seem to be calling me an Xbox fan. I like Xbox, I also like Playstation, but it doesn't make me blind to the fallacies of either. Sorry to see you apparently suffering from such maladies.
Your hyperbolic accusations feel mentally lazy, shortsighted and presumptuous.
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