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[mrmustard]

Do you really believe it’s difficult to find Sony full time warriors here? Who by their own admission only play a couple games each year, but argue endlessly here?

I recommend starting from the ABK thread, sort by post count, your list will be full in no time.

How can you sort by post count? I really would like the see who "won" the 65k replies thread.

 

[A.Romero]

Of course it happens but not on websites like this. They are macro operations runnig on platforms like twitter.

Microsoft would be very stupid to pay for shills here given that many people are actual rabid fans and do it for free.

I like rabid fans, they keep the conversations going and make browsing gaf fun and usually funny.

This applies for any console/brand/game.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Neogaf: It is a welll-documented fact that Microsoft has employed Astro-turfing as one arm of its “evangelising” program. Here’s someone who says, in support of Microsoft’s own words on the matter, that it still happens today in order to advertise the Xbox program.

Half of the Xbox fans on Neogaf: WHY ARE YOU ATTACKING ME???

Here’s a “thought experiment” for you all.

Assume that there are shills on this site, from both companies. People who will defend one platform AND attack the other, relentlessly, beyond the bounds of logical argument. Really, it doesn’t matter if they’re actually paid or not - just assume that such people exist.

Can you name who these would likely be for Xbox?
Can you name who these would likely be for Sony?

I think, even for the genuine die-hard fans, it is a lot easier to come up with a list for the one than the other.

(Note: I’m not actually asking people to “name and shame” - as I said, it’s just a thought experiment, so just think it.)

Thinking about it a rational person wouldn't defend the practice from any company. Only extremists would because they view it as part of fighting a war.

I'd say to spot these individuals just look for those that are not against these practices. As part of a thought experiment of course.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Wasn't there some survey that showed that most xbox owners own other consoles such as a playstation and switch plus PC as well.

While there is a large majority of playstation users that only own a playstation and don't own and play switch, xbox or PC platforms.

I'd think a more narrow targeted platform user would be naturally more inclined to show tribalism towards that platform, but maybe I'm completely wrong. I'm no psychologist.

 

[93xfan]

It's not because I'm giving you a history of when things started and what was the narrative back then.

But I don’t care for console warring narratives

I never said it was trash. I'm telling you what happened and it wasn't that PS fans were calling it trash as you're making it out to be. What was ACTUALLY being said is that people weren't buying these consoles for BC and Xbox fans wanted you to believe it was some must-have feature that was important when it was not.

People knew things would be different this generation because of the AMD architecture.

I have a love and attachment for older games. Enough gamers do that DF Retro and Gamesack get a lot of views. It’s why companies bother to do simple remasters and re-releases.

The only reasonable answer to this on an enthusiast forum is, “yes, Sony should invest a little money to make their old games available”. Instead, rather, it’s “But Driveclub sales were.. wait. Sorry! Had the wrong script. BC just isn’t important to the vast number of people.”

You dopes could be the ones pushing for BC, but I usually don’t even here a thing about your own preference in the whole defense.

 

[Killer8]

Must be some really deep pockets to pay 21 million Xbox Series owners to say nice things about the product (*who you've also sold the consoles to at a loss). Can't possible be because the people actually like the product, oh no.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Must be some really deep pockets to pay 21 million Xbox Series owners to say nice things about the product (*who you've also sold the consoles to at a loss). Can't possible be because the people actually like the product, oh no.

Obviously they don't mean every single Xbox owner.

“A lot of these xbox fans are paid firms or bots (rabid fan run or MS run). This is standard practice now in corpo warfare”

 

[DForce]

But I don’t care for console warring narratives

You started talking about PS fans and what they said about BC.

I have a love and attachment for older games. Enough gamers do that DF Retro and Gamesack get a lot of views. It’s why companies bother to do simple remasters and re-releases.

The only reasonable answer to this on an enthusiast forum is, “yes, Sony should invest a little money to make their old games available”. Instead, rather, it’s “But Driveclub sales were.. wait. Sorry! Had the wrong script. BC just isn’t important to the vast number of people.”

You dopes could be the ones pushing for BC, but I usually don’t even here a thing about your own preference in the whole defense.

You're not making any sense.

Driveclub works on PS5 through BC and it will likely work on PS6 since Sony will use the same AMD architecture. This means they don't have to emulate PS4 titles, it will just work natively.

So there's nothing to push because it will likely be there in the future.

This conversation is not about how you feel about BC, this is about what you were accusing Sony fans were saying.

 

[Topher]

Huh? Fucking weirdo’s.

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

Do you really believe it’s difficult to find Sony full time warriors here? Who by their own admission only play a couple games each year, but argue endlessly here?

I recommend starting from the ABK thread, sort by post count, your list will be full in no time.

Nope, not what I’m saying.

That said, I’ve mostly kept out of the ABK acquisition thread. Maybe I’ll take a look.

 

[Neo_GAF]

guess what: blizzard employees IN GENERAL STEAL BREAST MILK.

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

I'd think a more narrow targeted platform user would be naturally more inclined to show tribalism towards that platform, but maybe I'm completely wrong. I'm no psychologist.

Maybe that’s why Microsoft has to pay for it…?

 

[mrmustard]

Maybe I’ll take a look.

Don't. Just don't. Trust me on this.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Maybe that’s why Microsoft has to pay for it…?

Because those with a narrow mind are shills for free for, Sony?

That makes sense.

 

[mrmustard]

Of course it happens but not on websites like this.

I don't think it's impossible, but If they really pay people, why are there no e-mails, messages, bank statement or whatsoever to prove it?

If a company would offer me to get paid for posting fake shit, the first thing i would do is trying to sell that offer to the media and i bet there are tons of attention whores out there that would instantly publish it for free on social media.

I also think with all those leaked emails lately chances should be high this got leaked as well.

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

Because those with a narrow mind are shills for free for, Sony?

That makes sense.

Get rid of the "Sony" and you're spot on...

...but "shilling for free" isn't what this thread is about.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Get rid of the "Sony" and you're spot on...

...but "shilling for free" isn't what this thread is about.

You're right. I just wanna get paid. I can't wait for starfield tm

 

[Heisenberg007]

We have evidence that Microsoft hires people for their "evangelizing teams." And Phil Spencer also wanted to use "evangelizers" to promote xCloud.

Read point #19 in this post for more details: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/ctrl...lols-we-found-during-ftc-vs-microsoft.1658430

 

[demigod]

Just saw this reply:



I wonder under what circumstances a statement from Microsoft would convince those who were totally convinced by a single tweet by a former team lead on WOW.

I thought this might pick up a few lols and it has. But, serious question, are we to just constantly assume the worst? Can anyone say anything and we just treat it as fact? As far as I know the evidence is one guy's tweet.

Horseshit. I guess you also believe in phils lies.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Just saw this reply:



I wonder under what circumstances a statement from Microsoft would convince those who were totally convinced by a single tweet by a former team lead on WOW.

I thought this might pick up a few lols and it has. But, serious question, are we to just constantly assume the worst? Can anyone say anything and we just treat it as fact? As far as I know the evidence is one guy's tweet.

We do have evidence that goes against what Microsoft is saying.

We have evidence that Microsoft hires people for their "evangelizing teams." And Phil Spencer also wanted to use "evangelizers" to promote xCloud.

Read point #19 in this post for more details: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/ctrl...lols-we-found-during-ftc-vs-microsoft.1658430

 

[Three]

Wasn't there some survey that showed that most xbox owners own other consoles such as a playstation and switch plus PC as well.

While there is a large majority of playstation users that only own a playstation and don't own and play switch, xbox or PC platforms.

I'd think a more narrow targeted platform user would be naturally more inclined to show tribalism towards that platform, but maybe I'm completely wrong. I'm no psychologist.

No, it's the other way round. Xbox users own less consoles. It cane out of the CMA data and was redacted again.

 

[Calverz]

So. We have a guy who left blizzard in 2006. Since then he created a studio and one game. Firefall. Which released in 2014 and shut down in 2017. He hasn’t done anything of note since his time at blizzard pre 2006.

Seems like he is desperate for attention. Man Sony bruhs desperate to believe this crap hahahahhahahaha
“Oh but but he was a dev. Therefore his word is gospel!”

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

“Oh but but he was a dev. Therefore his word is gospel!”

Literally no-one has said this. You're pissing against the wind here.

 

[MasterCornholio]

We do have evidence that goes against what Microsoft is saying.

That's why its called Gold Journalism.

 

[SomeGit]

We have evidence that Microsoft hires people for their "evangelizing teams." And Phil Spencer also wanted to use "evangelizers" to promote xCloud.

Read point #19 in this post for more details: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/ctrl...lols-we-found-during-ftc-vs-microsoft.1658430

The term software evangelist team has existed openly for decades and isn't even a big Microsoft conspiracy, IBM and Apple used payed evangelists too openly for years like Guy Kawasaki and David Barnes but there is a lot more examples from Oracle, Google and even the Open Source community. It's not the hush hush you are making it out to be.

But that Phil Spencer quote is talking specifically about advocacy from non payed people, otherwise the condition "if they love it" wouldn't be there.

 

[SmokedMeat]

This explains all those 4090s people have.

All I got was fucking Battletoads.

 

[DenchDeckard]

No, it's the other way round. Xbox users own less consoles. It cane out of the CMA data and was redacted again.

Really, got a link? That's not what I remember seeing but I'll deffo take it if you got proof.

 

[Heisenberg007]

The term software evangelist team has existed openly for decades and isn't even a big Microsoft conspiracy, IBM and Apple used payed evangelists too openly for years like Guy Kawasaki and David Barnes but there is a lot more examples from Oracle, Google and even the Open Source community. It's not the hush hush you are making it out to be.

But that Phil Spencer quote is talking specifically about advocacy from non payed people, otherwise the condition "if they love it" wouldn't be there.

That may very well be true for other companies, but I haven't seen internal memos like these about evangelism and creating evangelist teams like Microsoft did.

If you have examples, please do share because that'd be juicy information.

 

[SomeGit]

That may very well be true for other companies, but I haven't seen internal memos like these about evangelism and creating evangelist teams like Microsoft did.

If you have examples, please do share because that'd be juicy information.

We don't have internal memos, those usually just leak because of court cases, but Technology Evangelist (or Tech Advisors sometimes) teams exist openly across the industry. Just go on LinkedIn.
It's an official job title, including at Microsoft.

 

[TBiddy]

Who gives a shit what a former WoW designer writes on Twitter? Why do people take his word as gospel?

If Microsoft were to pay people to praise them in some way, they'd have to be open about it. FTC clearly states that any 'influencers' must disclose if they are receiving payments for what they are writing. But sure, let's assume that this random guy on Twitter knows better. Get him to name and shame or shut up.

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

Technology Evangelist (or Tech Advisors sometimes) teams exist openly across the industry. Just go on LinkedIn.

… which is owned by Microsoft.

The plot thickens…

 

[CuteFaceJay]

I too would enjoy some assistance with mortgage payments MS

 

[Fredrik]

This explains all those 4090s people have.

All I got was fucking Battletoads.

That’s Nvidia paying us, through their insane stock movements - 189% up this year

For real, I don’t use my salary for graphics card purchases anymore, I just cling onto that broken capitalism rocket with a lump of money between the upgrades.

 

[Zathalus]

That may very well be true for other companies, but I haven't seen internal memos like these about evangelism and creating evangelist teams like Microsoft did.

If you have examples, please do share because that'd be juicy information.

It wouldn't be juicy information because all companies do it. Evangelism is hardly a new concept for companies and even startups have it. Its not a well kept secret either, you can find seminars and books about it. Hell, even press articles.

It takes many forms, from non-paying (social media from fan accounts) to paid members of staff whose job it is to deal with the public, to even part of the companies ethos.

There is also nothing wrong with it either.

 

[mrmustard]

It wouldn't be juicy information because all companies do it. Evangelism is hardly a new concept for companies and even startups have it. Its not a well kept secret either, you can find seminars and books about it. Hell, even press articles.

It takes many forms, from non-paying (social media from fan accounts) to paid members of staff whose job it is to deal with the public, to even part of the companies ethos.

There is also nothing wrong with it either.

Actually sending review copies and other goodies to streamers is already kind of paying them and i bet all are doing it. Or look at this shit, she got a super expensive ultra edition, the video sponsored and an invitation to an event:

 

[93xfan]

You started talking about PS fans and what they said about BC.


You're not making any sense.

Driveclub works on PS5 through BC and it will likely work on PS6 since Sony will use the same AMD architecture. This means they don't have to emulate PS4 titles, it will just work natively.

My insinuation with Driveclub was that people defend shutting down evolution studios.

So there's nothing to push because it will likely be there in the future.

This conversation is not about how you feel about BC, this is about what you were accusing Sony fans were saying.

I see in many ways you’re failing to grasp what I’m saying. While yes I brought up some PS4 games needing a patch on PS6, the main issue was about older BC. PS1-3.

Either way, the more I see you not understanding me, the more I feel this is a waste of time.

 

[FrankWza]

A lot less than all those people with a script claiming VRR was a bad thing until Sony decided it was actually a great idea.

When did this happen? It was always going to be a PS5 feature. You got the vrrrrrrroom tag because you were posting "xbox wins because VRR woohooo" in every head to head comparison that were basically even or slightly in PlayStations favor post-launch. You guys were expecting all 3rd party games to be much better on xbox and that never happened.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

I don't get why xbox fans are desperately trying to do character assassination on Mark Kern.

He didn't single out Xbox, he said many Xbox "fans" on twitter are bots because it's standard practice with mega corporations.
It's been pretty much proven that mega corps do hire astroturfing. Just look at positive reviews on shitty movies from Disney in Rotten Tomatoes and Meta Critic. It's super easy to find hundreds or thousands of user reviews with exactly the same text or very small variations. There's always lots of concern for "review bombing" which is just negative reviews from human users, but for some reason no one ever complains about the very obvious positive bot reviews.


That Josh Munsee is not under oath, he can lie in a social network like twitter. He'll lie if he needs to. And after the events of last week only someone in denial would believe Microsoft execs don't lie to people's faces all the time.
There's also all sorts of ways this could occur with plausible deniability as well. They can pay for the services of a marketing company which then subcontracts another company for astroturfing for Microsoft without their knowledge.

 

[DForce]

My insinuation with Driveclub was that people defend shutting down evolution studios.

Why should they stay up?

I see in many ways you’re failing to grasp what I’m saying. While yes I brought up some PS4 games needing a patch on PS6, the main issue was about older BC. PS1-3.

Either way, the more I see you not understanding me, the more I feel this is a waste of time.

There's nothing that I fail to grasp. You just don't realize that you're not making any sense.

No, you brought up Driveclub working via BC.

Wouldn’t it be awesome if you couldn’t play Driveclub or Gravity Rush HD on the PS6 without a patch that will never come?

You're talking about these specific games working on PS6.

The vast majority of PS4 games didn't have a BC patch. So why is this an issue? You're making NO sense at all. LOL

 

[Heisenberg007]

I don't get why xbox fans are desperately trying to do character assassination on Mark Kern.

He didn't single out Xbox, he said many Xbox "fans" on twitter are bots because it's standard practice with mega corporations.
It's been pretty much proven that mega corps do hire astroturfing. Just look at positive reviews on shitty movies from Disney in Rotten Tomatoes and Meta Critic. It's super easy to find hundreds or thousands of user reviews with exactly the same text or very small variations. There's always lots of concern for "review bombing" which is just negative reviews from human users, but for some reason no one ever complains about the very obvious positive bot reviews.


That Josh Munsee is not under oath, he can lie in a social network like twitter. He'll lie if he needs to. And after the events of last week only someone in denial would believe Microsoft execs don't lie to people's faces all the time.
There's also all sorts of ways this could occur with plausible deniability as well. They can pay for the services of a marketing company which then subcontracts another company for astroturfing for Microsoft without their knowledge.

Ali Salehi, Jason Schreier, Ian Maclure, The Game Bakers and now ... Mark Kern.

This is not new.

 

[mrmustard]

A lot less than all those people with a script claiming VRR was a bad thing until Sony decided it was actually a great idea.

Who is all those people and when did they say that? Can you give me and Topher some names and dates please? Jk, i don't give a shit.

 

[SomeGit]

… which is owned by Microsoft.

The plot thickens…

The rabbit hole goes deep.

 

[Don Carlo]

This is ridiculous.

 

[Pelta88]

Flashbacks.

Microsoft paying YouTube personalities for positive Xbox One endorsements

The console wars heat up with a bit of friendly astroturfing: Microsoft secretly paid for YouTube games platform Machinima to produce positive Xbox One content.

www.pcworld.com

 

[Chronicle]

And the Tower sways and crumbles again. Microsoft just goin all out suicide right now.


So the question is Neogaf: How many fucjinh paid nuts are on here. I'm not sure people on here are smart enough to get paid for the shilling they do. Eddie, I know you worked for free! Hahaha ha!

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

The term software evangelist team has existed openly for decades and isn't even a big Microsoft conspiracy, IBM and Apple used payed evangelists too openly for years like Guy Kawasaki and David Barnes but there is a lot more examples from Oracle, Google and even the Open Source community. It's not the hush hush you are making it out to be.

But that Phil Spencer quote is talking specifically about advocacy from non payed people, otherwise the condition "if they love it" wouldn't be there.

Ssh, no logic or reason allowed. It’s more fun when they take it and run with it.

 

[Unknown?]

I now realize why everyone praises Phil like he's some exceptional super corporate genius, when he's actually worse than Mattrick.

 

[ZehDon]

We do have evidence that goes against what Microsoft is saying.

... so, a 23-year-old internal memo combined with the word "evangelise" used in the context of a the xCloud service and we're at "Phil Spencer ADMITS he's PAYING for XBOX FANS!". You're promoting your own thread more than anyone is promoting xCloud, so what is Microsoft paying for, exactly?

 

[GHG]

I don't get why xbox fans are desperately trying to do character assassination on Mark Kern.

He didn't single out Xbox, he said many Xbox "fans" on twitter are bots because it's standard practice with mega corporations.
It's been pretty much proven that mega corps do hire astroturfing. Just look at positive reviews on shitty movies from Disney in Rotten Tomatoes and Meta Critic. It's super easy to find hundreds or thousands of user reviews with exactly the same text or very small variations. There's always lots of concern for "review bombing" which is just negative reviews from human users, but for some reason no one ever complains about the very obvious positive bot reviews.


That Josh Munsee is not under oath, he can lie in a social network like twitter. He'll lie if he needs to. And after the events of last week only someone in denial would believe Microsoft execs don't lie to people's faces all the time.
There's also all sorts of ways this could occur with plausible deniability as well. They can pay for the services of a marketing company which then subcontracts another company for astroturfing for Microsoft without their knowledge.

They are doing character assassination because he speaks the truth.

They are attacking the person because they can't attack the argument.

 

[adamsapple]

Ssh, no logic or reason allowed. It’s more fun when they take it and run with it.

... so, a 23-year-old internal memo combined with the word "evangelise" used in the context of a the xCloud service and we're at "Phil Spencer ADMITS he's PAYING for XBOX FANS!". You're promoting your own thread more than anyone is promoting xCloud, so what is Microsoft paying for, exactly?

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