lol "just play the old one that makes your eyes bleed! And the digital one even has cheats mapped to face buttons that you can accidentally turn on! Best version!"
I was responding to their "ruining the original" point. Why would the remake have any influence on your enjoyment of the original, which won't be replaced by the remake and will stay available for decades to come? If you really love the game, you love it with all of its quirks and flaws. It doesn't "make my eyes bleed". I'll still be playing it after the remake comes out.
I'm open for a new spin on it and obviously I'm not expecting it to have the same emotional impact on me as the original when I was 8.
Yeah, that is absolutely impossible. I felt bad about Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie dying for WEEKS. This was at a point where I thought Midgar was the entire game and that it was already halfway over.
It's just literally impossible to capture that sense of childhood naiveté ever again, so I'm not even holding it to that standard.
i dont recall Aerith actually having a reason for any of that stuff in the first place you know outside of Nojima's mind? The fact that she held onto Zack for years after he died shows she took a lot of what he said and did to heart anyway.
As for that comedic scene with Tifa and the Don, eh...90s humor.
I personally just saw it as them trying to force Zack on to everything and make him seem important .
I don't get why such important parts of her character (nearly her entire character design) are all centered around one guy that really wasn't that important (at least to me) in the original game. I'm not a purist or anything but things like that and Zack naming Seven Heaven annoy me.
Can you at least outline what you think is so great about VII's combat? It's just the FF ATB system again, as featured in IV-IX. There's nothing of particular interest or note about it in terms of being turn-based, and IMO, it's about as generic a combat system as a JRPG can have.
If you were talking about a game with special timing on attacks, or something like the Press Turn system, I'd understand. But even back then, when VII came out, I don't think I ever thought "Man, this combat is great!"
ATB system are great to begin... It tive more control over all characters without need to use tricks AI to command others characters like action based games. The battle system give you deep and freedom to strategy how you want the fight goes.
In the case of FFVII the ATP is combined with the material system to add dinamic roles for all characters. Because the limited number of materias you can use per character you need to define strategy roles for than... until late of the game you can have all elemental magics in all chars... you need to split the materia in the most strategy way possible.
You will have only one char for differed jobs commands (eg. Steal)... you have one character with specific Summon.
You have a deep system to work on and it fells great strategic.
Love it.
While it is not the best one ATB + battle system in FFs it fells great.
Of course they add chance and make it better but I prefer them to stay with ATB and materia.
FFVII is my most favorite game. The last thing I would do is pretend it has the most sophisticated, strategic battle-system. You can button-mash your way trough 90% of the game with normal "Attack". If you want to can play it more creative, yeah, but there's no need.
I remember you from FFXV threads. If you find FFVII's combat deep you can't call FFXV's combat shallow, when you can also button-mash or experiment if you want to, see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV-ANQvMkXg
To be fair, I don't quite remember what your issue with FFXV's combat was in particular. If it's the unresponsivness of attacking, I'd agree to a degree after having played Episode Duscae, but I haven't played Platinum yet, so I won't judge myself. When I played ED a second time after a few weeks the combat felt much better to me, though. Maybe you could give the final game a try.
I won't enter in details because this is not a thread to talk about it but FFXV combat is everything I don't expect from a JRPG or FF... it don't give you control over others chars, the hits have no weight, it unresponsive and lacks strategy.
And so...? You don't like the scene. What does that matter to FF7R? They are including what was written in CC since it is apart of the lore. the fact of the matter is, either one gets used to that basic common sense thing, or your really going to be in hell when it comes out
theres lots of things part of the lore, the original, the Last Order one, even though we dont see the finale and CC, doesnt mean they have to use the CC one in the remake
I said "well I think that zack's deal in CC was a lot more emtional" and you said "no its only cause of the graphics, original is better". Like...what are you refuting of my opinion? I disagree with you, that isn't changing.
ok then, my deal with Zack death that is depicted in CC, stems mostly from how deaths are depicted in the original FF7, sometimes brutal, sometimes fast, always sad, Zacks original death was treated this way, and while protecting cloud who was there witnessing the whole thing, instead of being hidden away, he still fought against shinra grunts who couldnt do anything against him, only being shot while checking on cloud, which then led to that brutal scene where the shinra grunts unload a full mag on his chest, killing him there, and doing nothing against cloud because of the state he was in, followed by cloud reaching up to zack, realizing what happened and breaking down even more
come CC, we have an overdramatized last stand against a ridiculous amount of enemies, full of anime shounen tropes and final yu mah legacy speach, if you like it more than the original fine, but nobody is gonna change my mind that the only reason people seem to like it more is because of dem pretty graphics and the characters having a voice now
And i never saw it, and i still don't see it. If one wants to argue Zack's importance on her life and what they think it should have been, have at it, but her character itself i never saw as different from her FF7 incarnation in any significant way.
And again, if you don't like compilation, don't buy the game, cause they are going to include what is canonly apart of FF7 lore and has been for years by default into the story. Those complaining, i have no idea what they even expected Nomura and company to do with the lore they created with this kind of project, but you should have seen it coming guys, you should have seen it.
i expected them to adapt and expand the story while keeping a degree of faithfullness to its original depiction, not ripping it apart, and this is something they can do, and CC isnt the only source for that
ok then, my deal with Zack death that is depicted in CC, stems mostly from how deaths are depicted in the original FF7, sometimes brutal, sometimes fast, always sad, Zacks original death was treated this way, and while protecting cloud who was there witnessing the whole thing, instead of being hidden away, he still thought against shinra grunts who couldnt do anything against him, only being shot while checking on cloud, which then led to that brutal scene where the shinra grunts unload a full mag on his chest, killing him there, and doing nothing against cloud because of the state he was in, followed by cloud reaching up to zack, realizing what happened and breaking down even more
come CC, we have an overdramatized last stand against a ridiculous amount of enemies, full of anime shounen tropes and final yu mah legacy speach
That just about covers it. I don't know if it was just the limitations of the tech, but FF7 sometimes had a quiet, sad quality that I thought was really beautiful. FF6 had moments like that too.
Then you give them all the tech and budget in the world, and it turns into a flashy anime circus.
If they redo Aeris's pivotal moment with lots of moaning and tears, and Cloud going "noo-hoo-hoo, Aerrrisss", I'll start questioning my own sanity.
I wanted to mention your views on Zack's death in the original. This is something I've always wanted to know; if others felt the same way . There was this brilliance of displaying the coldness and quickness of war that FF7 did so damn well. Zack got bullet-riddled. Cloud, being half cognisent, looked at him one last time, took his blade (read: identity/sense of self) and stormed off, leaving his cold lifeless body there. In the end, he was another soldier, a footnote. Dammit if that wasn't some Scorsese-level imagination man. It struck me as a very...unique choice to romanticize and shown-up his death in the prequel.Glad somebody spoke on that.
ok then, my deal with Zack death that is depicted in CC, stems mostly from how deaths are depicted in the original FF7, sometimes brutal, sometimes fast, always sad, Zacks original death was treated this way, and while protecting cloud who was there witnessing the whole thing, instead of being hidden away, he still fought against shinra grunts who couldnt do anything against him, only being shot while checking on cloud, which then led to that brutal scene where the shinra grunts unload a full mag on his chest, killing him there, and doing nothing against cloud because of the state he was in, followed by cloud reaching up to zack, realizing what happened and breaking down even more
come CC, we have an overdramatized last stand against a ridiculous amount of enemies, full of anime shounen tropes and final yu mah legacy speach, if you like it more than the original fine, but nobody is gonna change my mind that the only reason people seem to like it more is because of dem pretty graphics and the characters having a voice now
I completely agree with this and it's good to see that others do to. I honestly hate that ending change more then anything else in the FFVII Compilation. It's unfortunate since I liked the rest of the game for the most part.
This is true, but it is a double-edged sword that hinges on the premise that their effort will be rewarded with sales. What if the quality and care is there, but it still under-performs? Will they continue to give it their all on a part 2 or 3 if the audience and reception isn't proportional to their expectations? Final Fantasy 13's sequels scaled back production a lot, and it could easily happen here too. In the worst case scenario, they could just stop production and leave the remake project unfinished.
That's definitely my worry too. Would hate to see this remake fizzle.
As for battle systems, I'm very sympathetic to folks who like turn based. I like turn based. It is a shame that it's been largely abandoned in big AAA RPGs.
However, I've already played FF7 as a turn based game. I'm totally open to seeing this new tactical action system and assessing it on its own merits. Original 7 is always there to return to.
I cringe every time realizing it's a broken-up multi-part thing now. The fact that they can't disclose just how many makes my cynical outlook on square see the dollar signs in their eyes.
Please, please don't screw this up. Already a shame they were too scared to leave it turn based.
ok then, my deal with Zack death that is depicted in CC, stems mostly from how deaths are depicted in the original FF7, sometimes brutal, sometimes fast, always sad, Zacks original death was treated this way, and while protecting cloud who was there witnessing the whole thing, instead of being hidden away, he still fought against shinra grunts who couldnt do anything against him, only being shot while checking on cloud, which then led to that brutal scene where the shinra grunts unload a full mag on his chest, killing him there, and doing nothing against cloud because of the state he was in, followed by cloud reaching up to zack, realizing what happened and breaking down even more
come CC, we have an overdramatized last stand against a ridiculous amount of enemies, full of anime shounen tropes and final yu mah legacy speach, if you like it more than the original fine, but nobody is gonna change my mind that the only reason people seem to like it more is because of dem pretty graphics and the characters having a voice now
You said "people seem to like t more" that's just putting words in those people's mouths to diminish their opinion in comparison to yours.
In general, just how games are presented today and what they can do in terms of rendering emotion and other things are far more pertinent to reinterpretation of a scene than what was possible in 97.
FF7 had TONS of anime tropes, so bringing up shounen anime tropes about Zack's role in CC in a negative fashion isn't all that sensible either.
If we're talking about death and emotion in FF7, i thought the game in general had an issue with actually portraying the appropriate tones in each scenario.
We go from having a dark flashback about Barrets entire town being massacred and his former best friend committing suicide because he has nothing left, to yukking it up at the circus and racing chocobos with literally no time in between.
Things by default would have to be changed tone wise to even flow properly...the story was revised to tell a grand story about Zack and the ending supported that flow...and if that was Nojma's intent from the beginning, to have Zack have this big role nobody knew about, i think there's no way to really argue against that just because of how you interpreted FF7.
"So it wouldn’t really make sense if
that isn’t encompassed in the multi-part series, and it wouldn’t make
sense to remake it if we don’t encompass that that entire story.
With regards to the current HD capacity and volume, the idea is that
we wouldn’t be able to encompass it all in just one installment."
Which is a whole lot of horse shit and we all know it. Square Enix just doesn't want to take the financial risk if this falls flat on it's face. They know they would be doomed. (Especially with the 10 million sales goal)
This way they not only take less risk but get more money!
Final Fantasy (in terms of action games) is best represented by Dissidia in the current landscape
And why should that have any bearing on the remake of a beloved classic turn based RPG. That has been enjoyed by millions and has aged timelessly in terms of gameplay(Aside from random battles).
Dragon Quest XI gets to be turn based with ultra high end graphics. That just makes it look like you are compromising the integrity of the original game in order to broaden the appeal. To the point where it's not even the same game anymore.
"It would even be okay if we just upped the graphics to the quality of Advent Children.
But, in terms of game styles and battle systems, it’s been 20 years
since the original, and a lot has changed. Trends have changed, and I
believed that we needed to revisit and rethink that aspect for the
remake."
And for this, my gut reaction is *$*@ &!* , you don't need to follow trendy crap.. FFVII has enough mainstream appeal and fandom that it wouldn't matter. I've talked to a lot of people who wouldn't even care that the gameplay is different and would just play it for the story. FF was never about following trends, you set your own trends and did your own thing until one singular series of games became problematic and devisive. (FFXIII)
BUT.
We could have waylaid all of this if you just gave a damn and put the effort into the PS4 version of FFVII OG (And backported it to the PC version). Fix the translation, re-draw the Pre-rendered backgrounds in native high resolution. Used higher resolution assets for character portaits, make the battles run at 60FPS, update the character models and animations (Like Modders have done). Etc.
Then everyone could have their cake and eat it too almost.
It wouldn't have been the same as a full blown remake, but it would have more than fit the bill and been able to coexist with the new game with FFVII's name on it.
And it would still sell a ton. It's FFVII FFS. Instead we are stuck with the same old blurry shit.
When the backgrounds could look this amazing http://u.cubeupload.com/MrBonk/mds51finalcopy.jpg (Keep in mind this is fan made)
Instead of this http://games.highdefdigest.com/uploads/jb/FINAL_FANTASY_VII_ps4_review_this_guy_is_sick.jpg
Capcom managed to actually give a shit and do it right for RE0 HD and only asked for 20$ (Albeit a game on a smaller scale but entirely made of pre-rendered backgrounds.)
You asked for 15$ for essentially a no effort port. Add cheats, tick a couple boxes and call it a day.
That said, i'm still very very interested in this game. (Pls 1080p native with a stable 30FPS for once SE. And no OW stuff that doesn't belong in FFVII)
In general, just how games are presented today and what they can do in terms of rendering emotion and other things are far more pertinent to reinterpretation of a scene than what was possible in 97.
never said it didnt, and i'm talking specifically about Zacks death not his role in the game
If we're talking about death and emotion in FF7, i thought the game in general had an issue with actually portraying the appropriate tones in each scenario.
We go from having a dark flashback about Barrets entire town being massacred and his former best friend committing suicide because he has nothing left, to yukking it up at the circus and racing chocobos with literally no time in between.
how are they yukking it up, they made a deal to get out of prison by competing in a chocobo race, thats it, the scenes before and after dont have them clowning around
Things by default would have to be changed tone wise to even flow properly...the story was revised to tell a grand story about Zack and the ending supported that flow...and if that was Nojma's intent from the beginning, to have Zack have this big role nobody knew about, i think there's no way to really argue against that just because of how you interpreted FF7.
what flow, you know you can have an epic story, while still be faithful to what came before it, and nojima has nothing to do with it, since he wasnt the one that came up with the FF7 story, he wrote the script based on what sakaguchi and nomura wrote, you do know that one of the themes in FF7 is life, death and dealing and accepting loss and tragedy, and sakaguchi wanted to present death, not as it was depicted in CC with this final stand and speaches, but something more shocking and final, this stemming from what he was dealing at the time, so we definetly can argue about this
I always think that the combat itself (Aside from Materia, which frankly you could probably put it in this game anyway) was never the top point on why FF7 was so popular. It was the story. It was the characters. And it was the crazy huge world you can explore.
As long as the Remake does those things right, It's all good to me.
Because of a technology standpoint, is not difficult to see that action is conveyed better from a, if you'll excuse the repetition, action RPG game, and in a franchise and game so filled with great action scenes and a plot that benefits from that it's kind of obvious they'd go with that objective.
It makes sense. It's like asking mario games to go back to sprites only because you miss them and prefer them over 3D. It's sad, but turn based ends up being more of a nostalgia thing, and games that use it nowadays play a bit with that, but in a world where SE can actually, somehow "realize" better their vision and is not limited by hardware, it's not difficult to see why they are going with that route.
And this is coming from a guy who loves turn based rpgs.
An action based system (if done well) is going to be more immersive than a turn based one because it is the most responsive system.
You press a button or move in a direction and bam they do that. With turn based you are more like a magic ghost telling them what to do and they follow your orders. Neither of these systems is inferior to the other but in terms of immersion I would argue an action based system is far more immersive.
The character is more of an extension of you than with a turn based one.
I don't see how it is out of place in a FF game either. Pokemon was turn based and has a fighting game now yet nobody's saying that feels "out of place" in a Pokemon game.
I always think that the combat itself (Aside from Materia, which frankly you could probably put it in this game anyway) was never the top point on why FF7 was so popular. It was the story. It was the characters. And it was the crazy huge world you can explore.
As long as the Remake does those things right, It's all good to me.
This is what has always defined FF7 for me. I'm sure there a lot of people who went through the game despite not caring for the type of gameplay due to a love for everything else it has (though personally I enjoyed it).
Because of a technology standpoint, is not difficult to see that action is conveyed better from a, if you'll excuse the repetition, action RPG game, and in a franchise and game so filled with great action scenes and a plot that benefits from that it's kind of obvious they'd go with that objective.
It makes sense. It's like asking mario games to go back to sprites only because you miss them and prefer them over 3D. It's sad, but turn based ends up being more of a nostalgia thing, and games that use it nowadays play a bit with that, but in a world where SE can actually, somehow "realize" better their vision and is not limited by hardware, it's not difficult to see why they are going with that route.
And this is coming from a guy who loves turn based rpgs.
You're arguing aesthetics over functionality. To use your Mario example, I would absolutely be disappointed if a modern day remake of the first Super Mario Bros. added RPG elements or shifted the genre outright.
And this also seems to assume turn-based was never the intention but required due to limited technology, something that has been debunked over and over again. If we're talking a cinematic experience that Square has always been about, turn-based is still ideal. By delving into action, they have the added worry of making sure it's actually fun to play, and not a single Square game gives me the confidence they can do that.
And even considering all this, it's still not full action but rather some bizarre amalgam of action and command based systems that has never been good.
Edit: And I don't see why those advancements in real time combat can't be limited to new games. Several big names in the company have made clear their intent on the direction of the series going forward, but then retconning the most beloved entry to be something it's not just seems unfair to the fans that DID find the gameplay meaningful at one point.
I don't see how it is out of place in a FF game either. Pokemon was turn based and has a fighting game now yet nobody's saying that feels "out of place" in a Pokemon game.
Pokken Tournament isn't a remake of a mainline Pokemon game. If it was, I'd be just as disappointed if they abandoned one reason I love the Pokemon series in the first place.
This is what has always defined FF7 for me. I'm sure there a lot of people who went through the game despite not caring for the type of gameplay due to a love for everything else it has (though personally I enjoyed it).
You can't say that the combat was part of what defined the experience for no one, or there wouldn't be controversy over the decision to abandon it at all.
You're arguing aesthetics over functionality. To use your Mario example, I would absolutely be disappointed if a modern day remake of the first Super Mario Bros. added RPG elements or shifted the genre outright.
And this also seems to assume turn-based was never the intention but required due to limited technology, something that has been debunked over and over again. If we're talking a cinematic experience that Square has always been about, turn-based is still ideal. By delving into action, they have the added worry of making sure it's actually fun to play, and not a single Square game gives me the confidence they can do that.
And even considering all this, it's still not full action but rather some bizarre amalgam of action and command based systems that has never been good.
Edit: And I don't see why those advancements in real time combat can't be limited to new games. Several big names in the company have made clear their intent on the direction of the series going forward, but then retconning the most beloved entry to be something it's not just seems unfair to the fans that DID find the gameplay meaningful at one point.
Pokken Tournament isn't a remake of a mainline Pokemon game. If it was, I'd be just as disappointed if they abandoned one reason I love the Pokemon series in the first place.
You can't say that the combat was part of what defined the experience for no one, or there wouldn't be controversy over the decision to abandon it at all.
Dude, they are not "retconning" anything, you'll still forever have the original to play and glorify as much as you like. It'd be really, really unambitious to do HD textures and beautiful renders, with the same gameplay and the same scenes when they have all this technology at their disposal. Now when they can give even more life to the world created and to the lore, why should they limit themselves and create just a "more beautiful" carbon copy? Remasters exist for that purpose.
And i really don't think we should be doubting SE's delivery on the ARPG genre. Dismissing the whole KH, Dissidia or TWEWY... They've proved that they can deliver in that front (and Nomura is in charge too, maybe he fucked up with VS13 but he still got it, he'll make the gameplay-system work).
It'd be really, really unambitious to do HD textures and beautiful renders, with the same gameplay and the same scenes when they have all this technology at their disposal. Now when they can give even more life to the world created and to the lore, why should they limit themselves and create just a "more beautiful" carbon copy? Remasters exist for that purpose.
Remasters are upscales. There's a huge difference between just sharpening out the edges and updating everything. Update =/= change. Bringing the game to life with better production values, more dynamically-directed scenes, voice acting, real-time backgrounds, an advanced world map, etc. are all awesome updates.
And I never said keep the battle system exactly the same, but there should be a compromise. Going from a party-based command-based battle system to a weird action game hybrid with AI controlled allies and a gimped materia system is not a compromise, it's going too far in one direction. If wanting it to resemble the game it's based on is unambitious, then let it be unambitious. Action/ARPG gamers have A LOT to look forward to in terms of technology-pushing AAA games including from this very company. Can't us turn-based fans have this one thing? Square obviously doesn't think so.
And i really don't think we should be doubting SE's delivery on the ARPG genre. Dismissing the whole KH, Dissidia or TWEWY... They've proved that they can deliver in that front (and Nomura is in charge too, maybe he fucked up with VS13 but he still got it, he'll make the gameplay-system work).
I have no problem dismissing them after playing through every well-known ARPG the company has put out. Birth By Sleep is the only halfway decent one in terms of combat. XV is a clunky mess if the demo is anything to go by, but that may be Tabata's fault.
Dude, they are not "retconning" anything, you'll still forever have the original to play and glorify as much as you like. It'd be really, really unambitious to do HD textures and beautiful renders, with the same gameplay and the same scenes when they have all this technology at their disposal. Now when they can give even more life to the world created and to the lore, why should they limit themselves and create just a "more beautiful" carbon copy? Remasters exist for that purpose.
And i really don't think we should be doubting SE's delivery on the ARPG genre. Dismissing the whole KH, Dissidia or TWEWY... They've proved that they can deliver in that front (and Nomura is in charge too, maybe he fucked up with VS13 but he still got it, he'll make the gameplay-system work).
Again, for me it's like turning the Resident Evil 2 remake into an FPS, because tank controls are outdated. I don't think most people, who want to keep a turn-based system, want it to be exactly like the original game. But there are always ways to evolve a system and build upon it, instead of throwing it away completely.
My biggest gripe is that I've yet to play an ARPG from them, where you had a satisfying amount of control over your party. I hate AI controlled party members so much, because you always have to babysit them. KH1 was probably the worst for me.
e: To be clear, I'd be much more favorable of the genre shift, if there would be no party members.
It's also unfair to say that people who want to keep the turn-based system can always go back and play the original. Why don't they deserve an updated, modern take on the game, without shifting the genre? I hate that thinking so much. "Well, if you don't like the FPS shooting in REmake 2, you can always go back and play the original!" How stupid is that?
Dude, they are not "retconning" anything, you'll still forever have the original to play and glorify as much as you like. It'd be really, really unambitious to do HD textures and beautiful renders, with the same gameplay and the same scenes when they have all this technology at their disposal. Now when they can give even more life to the world created and to the lore, why should they limit themselves and create just a "more beautiful" carbon copy? Remasters exist for that purpose.
And i really don't think we should be doubting SE's delivery on the ARPG genre. Dismissing the whole KH, Dissidia or TWEWY... They've proved that they can deliver in that front (and Nomura is in charge too, maybe he fucked up with VS13 but he still got it, he'll make the gameplay-system work).
What makes a action gameplay more modern or using more technology? The gameplay type has nothing to do with modern technologies.
The lack of party control in a action gameplay already kills what makes FF good... strategy and control of the battle just lacks compared with turn based gameplay.
FF is a JRPG and not DMC.
If SE wants to create a action-RPG then create a new franchise instead to try to force people into old franchises with bad gameplay.
theres lots of things part of the lore, the original, the Last Order one, even though we dont see the finale and CC, doesnt mean they have to use the CC one in the remake
ok then, my deal with Zack death that is depicted in CC, stems mostly from how deaths are depicted in the original FF7, sometimes brutal, sometimes fast, always sad, Zacks original death was treated this way, and while protecting cloud who was there witnessing the whole thing, instead of being hidden away, he still fought against shinra grunts who couldnt do anything against him, only being shot while checking on cloud, which then led to that brutal scene where the shinra grunts unload a full mag on his chest, killing him there, and doing nothing against cloud because of the state he was in, followed by cloud reaching up to zack, realizing what happened and breaking down even more
come CC, we have an overdramatized last stand against a ridiculous amount of enemies, full of anime shounen tropes and final yu mah legacy speach, if you like it more than the original fine, but nobody is gonna change my mind that the only reason people seem to like it more is because of dem pretty graphics and the characters having a voice now
i expected them to adapt and expand the story while keeping a degree of faithfullness to its original depiction, not ripping it apart, and this is something they can do, and CC isnt the only source for that
One thing that personally irks me is that Cloud doesn't seem to have any weight in his attacks. He should be the slow tank type in combat, why is he fighting like a ninja? We have characters like Tifa and maybe Yuffie that I'd imagine as the fast hitting characters. In OG FF7 all his attacks and limits with the sword had a slowness and weight to them with the exception of Omnislash that made it feel like a big deal.
It's not horribly fast doe but I wish he would be a bit slower.
That's not the best post, that is large heaping helping of distortions and soapboxing that their interpretation of the game was different from the writers reinterpretation of the scenes in the expanded material, which while is certainly what a portion of the FF7 fandom feels, is not really the majority.
Just because one is louder and angrier about a situation doesn't make that suddenly the only truth in the matter.
The entire point of this conversation was that some people were mad that they were including expanded material into this retellng/remake of FF7 in their own style, which is my point of objection. You dont like it, there's nothing really to do about that, and it isn't representative of where they even want to go with the game. They intentionally don't want to make it the exact same as the original you played 20 years ago.
One thing that personally irks me is that Cloud doesn't seem to have any weight in his attacks. He should be the slow tank type in combat, why is he fighting like a ninja? We have characters like Tifa and maybe Yuffie that I'd imagine as the fast hitting characters. In OG FF7 all his attacks and limits with the sword had a slowness and weight to them with the exception of Omnislash that made it feel like a big deal.
Because the FPS was like 20 in battles is why it looked slow.
In every other material outside of that original game, Cloud is portrayed as a super solider that can swing around a blade like that like its a piece of paper and do acrobatics like jumping 10 stories into the air. If your cutting up giant monsters, your not going to be trying to heave it around realistically in the first place
Because the FPS was like 20 in battles is why it looked slow.
In every other material outside of that original game, Cloud is portrayed as a super solider that can swing around a blade like that like its a piece of paper and do acrobatics like jumping 10 stories into the air. If your cutting up giant monsters, your not going to be trying to heave it around realistically in the first place
I dunno dude. I look at something like Omnislash and it clearly is ridicilous acrobatic stuff but other than that I always felt he was portrayed as a slower attacker. Just comparing normal attack animations, Cloud hits once while Tifa or Barret hits multiple times.
Personally I'd rather have Cloud mostly be something like Kirkhammer in Bloodborne (edit: heck, closer to the topic something like Noctis with the big sword in XV is what I'm looking for). I think he would be the best character to fit in that role. I guess you could have Caith Sith or Cid but I'd much rather Cloud be that guy.
Also the less they look at some of the more ridicilous stuff in the Compilation the better. Doe I think even in Advent Children he had more weight to his attacks.
You're saying it's a trilogy like that's a fact but the truth is they haven't confirmed anything yet. I would avoid setting up expectations on that front right now since they still haven't commited to a number themselves.
Also, I think being worried about the game being broken up into pieces is understandable. More is not always better, specially in a story-driven game such as FF. Too much bloat can ruin the pacing of the game. Someone compared this to hollywood making a trilogy out of The Hobbit, and while I seriously hope the results are better here, that is a solid example on how adding too much filler to an otherwise pretty tightly paced story can make the end result significantly worse. I really do hope they're careful about that. I mean, the original itself had a few parts where it felt like things were going a little too slow.
That's not the best post, that is large heaping helping of distortions and soapboxing that their interpretation of the game was different from the writers reinterpretation of the scenes in the expanded material, which while is certainly what a portion of the FF7 fandom feels, is not really the majority.
Just because one is louder and angrier about a situation doesn't make that suddenly the only truth in the matter.
The entire point of this conversation was that some people were mad that they were including expanded material into this retellng/remake of FF7 in their own style, which is my point of objection. You dont like it, there's nothing really to do about that, and it isn't representative of where they even want to go with the game. They intentionally don't want to make it the exact same as the original you played 20 years ago.
Crisis Core sold a fraction of what VII did so while maybe the majority doesn't feel the same way he does that's also because the majority has largely no idea of how they even handled his death on CC to begin with to make an educated assertment.
There's no arguing about the fact that they're very different in tone, scope and presentation. While VII depicts a rather self-contained, melancholic scene, CC presents a bombastic, melodramatic take on the same scene. That's not his interpretation of how things went in the original, it's just how they were, which was Sakaguchi's intention at the time due to his personal experience with his mother's death, and they did change it quite drastically.You can argue whether the change was for better or worse, I personally find this sort of modern anime-ish over the top approach to be too forced, "staged" even, to get a genuine reaction out of me but I can understand why some people prefer the reinterpretation.
The thing that makes me feel relieved about how they're gonna handle the most memorable scenes in this remake is the fact that, for all of the things I don't enjoy about Nomura's approach to game design, his work on KH or his writting in general, he does understand how to direct and present a scene really well. His FF VII and Versus XIII trailers also show he has a pretty strong grasp on visuals and atmosphere, so whatever take he decides to give to Zack's death, I'm pretty confident it's gonna be a lot better than what was shown in CC.
At the end of the day, expanded universe included and all, I'll be buying the remake day one anyway and am pretty excited to see what's new
I dunno dude. I look at something like Omnislash and it clearly is ridicilous acrobatic stuff but other than that I always felt he was portrayed as a slower attacker. Just comparing normal attack animations, Cloud hits once while Tifa or Barret hits multiple times.
Also the less they look at some of the more ridicilous stuff in the Compilation the better. Doe I think even in Advent Children he had more weight to his attacks.
I know what you mean. His Limit Breaks have a lot of weight to them, Blade Beam and Climhazzard, especially.
With Blade Beam, it looks like it requires a bit of effort for him to bring the sword back and he braces it there for a short moment, before bringing it forward to release the beam.
With Climhazzard Cloud has to brace and reposition himself a little bit to pull off the uppercut. There's a lot of weight to that one.
Things by default would have to be changed tone wise to even flow properly...the story was revised to tell a grand story about Zack and the ending supported that flow...and if that was Nojma's intent from the beginning, to have Zack have this big role nobody knew about, i think there's no way to really argue against that just because of how you interpreted FF7.
I'm fairly sure I've read an interview where the team explained that they actually went out of their way to make the deaths in the game feel sudden and inglorious. I mean, the only one with the proper amount of dramatic death speech is Cait Sith's, and he doesn't even really die.
I'm fairly sure I've read an interview where the team explained that they actually go out of their way to make the deaths in the game feel sudden and inglorious. I mean, the only one with the proper amount of dramatic death speech is Cait Sith's, and he doesn't even really die.
You're saying it's a trilogy like that's a fact but the truth is they haven't confirmed anything yet. I would avoid setting up expectations on that front right now since they still haven't commited to a number themselves.
Also, I think being worried about the game being broken up into pieces is understandable. More is not always better, specially in a story-driven game such as FF. Too much bloat can ruin the pacing of the game. Someone compared this to hollywood making a trilogy out of The Hobbit, and while I seriously hope the results are better here, that is a solid example on how adding too much filler to an otherwise pretty tightly paced story can make the end result significantly worse. I really do hope they're careful about that. I mean, the original itself had a few parts where it felt like things were going a little too slow.
Crisis Core sold a fraction of what VII did so while maybe the majority doesn't feel the same way he does that's also because the majority has largely no idea of how they even handled his death on CC to begin with to make an educated assertment.
There's no arguing about the fact that they're very different in tone, scope and presentation. While VII depicts a rather self-contained, melancholic scene, CC presents a bombastic, melodramatic take on the same scene. That's not his interpretation of how things went in the original, it's just how they were, which was Sakaguchi's intention at the time due to his personal experience with his mother's death, and they did change it quite drastically.You can argue whether the change was for better or worse, I personally find this sort of modern anime-ish over the top approach to be too forced, "staged" even, to get a genuine reaction out of me but I can understand why some people prefer the reinterpretation.
The thing that makes me feel a relieved about how they're gonna handle the most memorable scenes in this remake is the fact that, for all of the things I don't enjoy about Nomura's approach to game design, his work on KH or his writting in general, he does understand how to direct and present a scene really well. His FF VII and Versus XIII trailers also show he has a pretty strong grasp on visuals and atmosphere, so whatever take he decides to give to Zack's death, I'm pretty confident it's gonna be a lot better than what was shown in CC.
At the end of the day, expanded universe included and all, I'll be buying the remake day one anyway and am pretty excited to see what's new
I really am quite excited. I do look forward to any changes that they make, FFVII still holds up really well for me and can stand on its own. Having a reinterpretation of it sounds great.
He also has this neat image, in which I spy FF7, Crash, Yoshi, Mario, Kirby, Bushido Blade, Link's shield, Sonic, Resident Evil, Pikachu, and probably other references I'm overlooking.
He also has this neat image, in which I spy FF7, Crash, Yoshi, Mario, Kirby, Bushido Blade, Link's shield, Sonic, Resident Evil, Pikachu, and probably other references I'm overlooking.
Out of curiosity, are all the people that are hyped for this game, hyped because the combat is really flashy and cool looking?
Something I noticed over the years is that people who get hyped over pretty graphics tend to hate games more than 5 years or on an older system as "having terrible graphics." They call older games unplayable because of the tech, while claiming that new games are amazing. Then, after a few years pass, they denounce the games they liked as "not having aged well." They then look forward to the newest, prettiest little game. Ad nauseam. It appears to be more of the spectacle of the latest tech they want, rather than the game itself.
Also, I've noticed that a lot of major games have had amazing looking trailers that everyone got hyped for, and then everyone hated. Like Destiny, or Titain Fall, and so on. Games with pretty graphics and special effects that people went: "Day 1!" for, and the game ended up being complete *******. Pretty, but ******.
So, that I'm a bit curious about why some of the people are saying they're hyped for this game after looking for Gifs. I've at least seen this before, and so haven't a lot of posters. I'm at least wondering if that's the only reason why some people are excited. Either way, hopefully some of the people that are excited by the trailers can understand why some people don't find the trailers exciting like they do, even though it seems "obvious" to you.
