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1080p/60fps: what is the tech barrier for this on next gen consoles?

K

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
Nobody in their right mind expects the Xbox 720/PS4 to have a large number of 1080p/60fps games in their library.....devs will be able to make prettier pixes if they go 720p/30fps, so that is sure to be the standard next gen...


Even so, I am curious what the biggest tech cockblock for high-res/high framerate games on next generation consoles will be...


Take a game like, say, Far Cry 2, for example.....an nVidia GTX 680 can run the game 60fps on Ultra settings, IIRC. Whereas a mid-range card like a Radeon HD 6850, for instance cant run that game @ 1080p/60fps with ultra detail...

Now, I am not saying next gen consoles will be in the same class as a GTX 680, but what gives the high end card the edge to produce high resolution detail at high frame rates over a mid range card?

ROPs?
Memory Bandwidth?
Floating Point math capabilities?
All of the above?


According to current rumors, the PS4 will have a 2 Teraflop-class GPU which, with efficiencies gained by a closed environment, will net in a pretty beefy console, graphic-wise.

I am hoping (against hope?) that we will see at least a few high framerate/high resolution games next gen..


If I could get GT6 with this level of detail and framerate I would be a happy camper :)
 
E

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
There is no 'tech barrier' for 60fps. Framerate is entirely relative to asset/rendering quality and engine optimisation on set hardware. The choice to go with 60fps is entirely up to the developer, and in any instance where they could go 60fps they could also chose to increase image quality, scene complexity and overall detail at the expense of 30fps.

If you want consistent 60fps, buy a PC and get used to upgrading, because the only way you'll ever get it is buy breaking the hardware barrier yourself.
 
C

Chev

Member
It's not a tech barrier at all.

Whenever you get a tech able to do X at 60fps it is by definition also a tech that allows you to do twice as detailed as X at 30fps. And it's gonna make prettier screenshots. So unless the platform holder forces devs to make 60fps games or go elsewhere, you're gonna see games with lower framerates.
 
X

Xyber

Member
Kleegamefan said:
Take a game like, say, Far Cry 2, for example.....an nVidia GTX 680 can run the game 60fps on Ultra settings, IIRC. Whereas a mid-range card like a Radeon HD 6850, for instance cant run that game @ 1080p/60fps with ultra detail...
Click to expand...

A 680 is way to overkill for that game. :p A 560Ti get over 60fps average with max settings at 1080p. Just saying.
 
K

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
OK, but what is the biggest performance bottleneck that affects resolution and frame rate when comparing mid range and high end GPUs?
 
E

ekim

Member
Problem for most current gen games : they are built for consoles - so optimization for all that different combinations of PC specs is nearly impossible to do within an realistic time/moneyframe.

Wildly guessing : Something like Star Wars 1313 should run@60FPS/1080p on a console with something like a GTX680 without any problems.
 
H

Hero_of_the_Day

Member
EatChildren said:
There is no 'tech barrier' for 60fps. Framerate is entirely relative to asset/rendering quality and engine optimisation on set hardware. The choice to go with 60fps is entirely up to the developer, and in any instance where they could go 60fps they could also chose to increase image quality, scene complexity and overall detail at the expense of 30fps.

If you want consistent 60fps, buy a PC and get used to upgrading, because the only way you'll ever get it is buy breaking the hardware barrier yourself.
Click to expand...

This.
 
K

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Publishers want to sell as many games as possible to joe average.

Most publishers are unscrupulous / don't care about gaming / don't care about the end user experience. They're selling toasters.

Making a game look pretty in screen shots and trailers lends itself to hype and ad campaigns to move units on launch day.

Therefore, expect plenty of 30fps games. And I can't wait to see who actually publishes a sub-720p game next gen. Don't say it's unpossible. You know it's coming.
 
V

Valnen

Member
Kaijima said:
Publishers want to sell as many games as possible to joe average.

Most publishers are unscrupulous / don't care about gaming / don't care about the end user experience. They're selling toasters.

Making a game look pretty in screen shots and trailers lends itself to hype and ad campaigns to move units on launch day.

Therefore, expect plenty of 30fps games. And I can't wait to see who actually publishes a sub-720p game next gen. Don't say it's unpossible. You know it's coming.
Click to expand...

If Microsoft and Sony were smart they'd make it a requirement for a game to at least be 1080p to be on PS4/720.

Game not 1080p? Then it doesn't get certified. That's the way it should be.
 
E

ekim

Member
btw: A GTX 660 is basically a GTX 680. Nvidia literally destroys/etches shader pipelines and GPU cores to make the 660 perform worse.
 
K

KageMaru

Member
EatChildren said:
There is no 'tech barrier' for 60fps. Framerate is entirely relative to asset/rendering quality and engine optimisation on set hardware. The choice to go with 60fps is entirely up to the developer, and in any instance where they could go 60fps they could also chose to increase image quality, scene complexity and overall detail at the expense of 30fps.

If you want consistent 60fps, buy a PC and get used to upgrading, because the only way you'll ever get it is buy breaking the hardware barrier yourself.
Click to expand...

Listen to this man.

Nekuru said:
I don't see why 1080p would not be a standard for next gen.
Click to expand...

Because no matter how powerful these consoles may be, you'll still be able to do more per scene at 720p than you could at 1080p. If it's not going to make a difference that the average gamer can see, devs will probably sacrifice it first.

nubbe said:
We can get 1080p@120FPS on 360 and PS3.

and the games would look spectacular
Click to expand...

The games would look like early PS2 games, not spectacular. =p Devs can do 1080p60 on today's hardware, but the results would not be pretty at all. So they go for the prettier, fewer, pixels at 30fps.
 
N

nubbe

Member
StuBurns said:
I'm pretty sure we can't.
Click to expand...

Aj7vY.gif
 
T

Tain

Member
Valnen said:
If Microsoft and Sony were smart they'd make it a requirement for a game to at least be 1080p to be on PS4/720.

Game not 1080p? Then it doesn't get certified. That's the way it should be.
Click to expand...

I couldn't get behind that, if you're talking internal 1080p framebuffers. If a dev wants to drop resolution for performance or effects, they should have the option to.
 
V

Valnen

Member
Tain said:
I couldn't get behind that, if you're talking internal 1080p framebuffers. If a dev wants to drop resolution for performance or effects, they should have the option to.
Click to expand...

I don't really agree unless they put in like 8x AA to compensate.

There will be no reason to run at anything less than 1080p next gen if the consoles have decent hardware in them. No reason other than developer laziness.
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
Valnen said:
If Microsoft and Sony were smart they'd make it a requirement for a game to at least be 1080p to be on PS4/720.

Game not 1080p? Then it doesn't get certified. That's the way it should be.
Click to expand...
How can that be a least? Nothing but a PC can play higher resolutions and I don't even know of mainstream TV sets that work above 1080p. Sounds like you want to lock devs down to a single option.

That sort of strategy didn't work out very well for Nintendo, last I heard.
 
T

Tain

Member
Valnen said:
I don't really agree unless they put in like 8x AA to compensate.

There will be no reason to run at anything less than 1080p next gen if the consoles have decent hardware in them. No reason other than developer laziness.
Click to expand...

2D games, advanced/new/experimental lighting models, shit we can't really predict. Seems nonsensical to throw options out, especially given how many people are fine with some of the sub-720p 360 games. I certainly wouldn't want Vanquish, Max Anarchy, or console CoD games to run worse than they already do.
 
J

jaypah

Member
Sony or MS should mandate that all games run at 60fps. Then use that in marketing like blast-processing. Then let the fanboys in the YouTube comments seal the deal. "u playing that slow 30spf bullshit? I liek Infinity-Processing it make the gaem mor real".
 
S

StuBurns

Banned
Oni Jazar said:
Most people don't care about 60fps:

http://i.imgur.com/moQx0.jpg[img]

Read this blog post by Insomniac dev:

[url]http://web.archive.org/web/20110501200010/http://insomniacgames.com/blogcast/blog/mike_acton/1503082[/url]

Research found that:
• A higher framerate does not significantly affect sales of a game.

• A higher framerate does not significantly affect the reviews of a game[/QUOTE]
And yet Call of Duty and Mario are the top selling franchises in the world.

What people say they want, and what they want aren't always aligned. People might not know why they like a game, why it feels more fluid to them, why it's more rewarding. Being able to understand and articulate why something is nice is difficult. The poll tells you nothing about actual game sales or motives, only about what people know of their own motives.
Click to expand...
 
M

Man-is-Obsolete

Member
It really comes down to the Developer. This gen has really shown that there is a large gap between the top tier and everyone else. There are studios with less than 50 people making more technically impressive games than those with 300. That trend will carry into next gen as well.
 
E

ekim

Member
StuBurns said:
And yet Call of Duty and Mario are the top selling franchises in the world.

What people say they want, and what they want aren't always aligned. People might not know why they like a game, why it feels more fluid to them, why it's more rewarding. Being able to understand and articulate why something is nice is difficult. The poll tells you nothing about actual game sales or motives, only about what people know of their own motives.
Click to expand...

If there was a reputation system in here, I would have granted you +1 with this posting.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
KageMaru said:
Listen to this man.



Because no matter how powerful these consoles may be, you'll still be able to do more per scene at 720p than you could at 1080p. If it's not going to make a difference that the average gamer can see, devs will probably sacrifice it first.



The games would look like early PS2 games, not spectacular. =p Devs can do 1080p60 on today's hardware, but the results would not be pretty at all. So they go for the prettier, fewer, pixels at 30fps.
Click to expand...

Based on that they could put even more effects at 480p. At some point a baseline will be defined or emerge. I think personally it'll be 1080p
 
O

Oni Jazar

Member
mrklaw said:
Based on that they could put even more effects at 480p. At some point a baseline will be defined or emerge. I think personally it'll be 1080p
Click to expand...

It's not just a resolution issue. A dev can always throw in more effects, reflection, better textures, etc.


rjc571 said:
I think the opposite will be true on the Wii U.
Every Mario game released in the last 10 years? (Except 3D Land)
Click to expand...

And how many of those sold better then Mario 64?
 
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