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Analysis 12.15 - 10.28= 1.87 Teraflops difference between the XSX and PS5 (52 CU's vs. 36 CU's)

grfunkulus

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LMAO saying something is speculation is not being in denial.
#Cerneysez

Me: wishes he could tag all posts with this that stipulate because Cerney said it, it became true. Ohhh, to be able to go back in time and wish into existence a launch PS4 Pro that didn't sound like a jet engine when Sony promised it would be near silent when operating base PS4 games compared to the OG system. Lined up on launch day for one, hoping a basic game like Destiny 1 with its meager 30fps lock (no boost mode enabled) would be transformed on Sony's mid-gen refresh.

#disappointment #waitandsee

For a topic purportedly based on factual discussion, you seem awfully quick to dismiss logical conclusion. But go figure. This is the forum that is bi-polar AF when it comes to citing Jason S as part of a non-existent, legitimate game's press, only doing so when its convenient to bolster their argument that an underpowered, likely loud and inefficient system will somehow be magic. But it's cool to cozy up now.

The battle lines are drawn. The deny reality defense force is out in full force. I can't wait for launch day because I won't be buying either, and instead sitting pretty with my gaming PC, waiting for actual benchmarks to roll in. Because I'm not a 40 year-old man child.
 
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Jan 11, 2019
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#Cerneysez

Me: wishes he could tag all posts with this that stipulate because Cerney said it, it became true. Ohhh, to be able to go back in time and wish into existence a launch PS4 Pro that didn't sound like a jet engine when Sony promised it would be near silent when operating base PS4 games compared to the OG system. Lined up on launch day for one, hoping a basic game like Destiny 1 with its meager 30fps lock (no boost mode enabled) would be transformed on Sony's mid-gen refresh.

#disappointment #waitandsee

For a topic purportedly based on factual discussion, you seem awfully quick to dismiss logical conclusion. But go figure. This is the forum that is bi-polar AF when it comes to citing Jason S as part of a non-existent, legitimate game's press, only doing so when its convenient to bolster their argument that an underpowered, likely loud and inefficient system will somehow be magic. But it's cool to cozy up now.

The battle lines are drawn. The deny reality defense force is out in full force. I can't wait for launch day because I won't be buying either, and instead sitting pretty with my gaming PC, waiting for actual benchmarks to roll in. Because I'm not a 40 year-old man child.
 

Lampiao

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At the end, all tf from 7 to 10,2 is a real scenario for ps5. Ps5 could be more weaker than we imagine.
 

Mynd

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XSX is up to 12.1.. It depends on development/developer.. 10.28 can be sustained just like XSX.. Did you actually watch the presentation.
Pretty suyr
Different type of tech.. The CU's were not the same in comparison. You're just trying to shoot down any positives about it. The performance gap difference between XSX vs PS5 is not the same as PS4 vs Xbox One. It just isn't. I'm not saying Xbox isn't more powerful but the noticeable difference will be very minor at best. Even less than X to Pro.
Not the same? Yes GPU has changed somewhat, but not vastly.
Guess we will wait and see huh.
 

Justin9mm

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Xsx is locked, so therefore 12.18 all the time.

Ps5 is 9.2 and overclocking tf out of itself for a measly extra flop. At least get more creative spinning.
12.18 locked.. I'll believe it when I see it. I'm not spinning anything.. I'm not trying to defend PS over Xbox.. I own a One X. But PS5 is not massively overclocking TF out of itself. It can sustain it's 10.3. You say a measly flop yet the difference is only 1.8 between XSX max and PS5 Max. Except PS5 is the one with a more efficient(I didn't say powerful) output.

We know how the X went down with pushing raw power without efficiency.. Unstable performance.
 
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Mynd

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Source for what? The sky is blue, you want a source for that?

You are confused with Cerny's wording.. The XSX 12.1 is their highest compute power. Just because Spencer didn't say up to doesn't mean everything will be developed and running at maximum capacity of 12.1.
You cant read very well can you.
Glad to see the sky is still blue in your world.
But up until now at least, the focus has been on the GPU, where Microsoft has delivered 12 teraflops of compute performance via 3328 shaders allocated to 52 compute units (from 56 in total on silicon, four disabled to increase production yield) running at a sustained, locked 1825MHz. Once again, Microsoft stresses the point that frequencies are consistent on all machines, in all environments. There are no boost clocks with Xbox Series X.
 

Sacred

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XSX is up to 12.1.. It depends on development/developer.. 10.28 can be sustained just like XSX.. Did you actually watch the presentation.
The mental gymnastics you guys keep trying to do is just baffling. Yes, it will be a 20-30% power difference for multiplats. The PS5 will have faster load screens but trail behind in everything else, you can also expect it to be much louder and shorter shelf life if it runs at full boost most of the time.
 

Justin9mm

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You cant read very well can you.
Glad to see the sky is still blue in your world.


I know what was said..
I'm not saying the statement in your above post isn't true. But Microsoft have a record of outputting unstable performance on their console.

On paper with the XSX this doesn't seem to be an issue but I'm looking at my X and like that console, history may repeat itself when squeezing raw power. The two next gen consoles have very different approaches so it's going to be very interesting. People on this thread just see numbers and have no technical knowledge on what the practical output may look like. These are very close in performance but everyone here who doesn't understand the hardware see it very differently.
 

Sacred

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Source for what? The sky is blue, you want a source for that?

You are confused with Cerny's wording.. The XSX 12.1 is their highest compute power. Just because Spencer didn't say up to doesn't mean everything will be developed and running at maximum capacity of 12.1.
It's not running a boost clock speed, that is the base clock speed, it is exactly what it will run at all the time 1825 mhz. If you don't understand what you are trying to explain, do yourself a favor and stop.
 
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Justin9mm

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The mental gymnastics you guys keep trying to do is just baffling. Yes, it will be a 20-30% power difference for multiplats. The PS5 will have faster load screens but trail behind in everything else, you can also expect it to be much louder and shorter shelf life if it runs at full boost most of the time.
Another fanboy.. Before I say what I'm going to say let me just tell you, I'm a proud owner of a One X.

First of the power difference is not 20-30%.. That's hilarious.

The load times are not the only benefit the PS5 SSD will bring. It will also contribute to squeezing out performance. You obviously have no idea how games are developed.

Sony have already explained they have an advanced cooling system to fix the previous issue with the PS4... So we believe everything Microsoft tells you but for some reason it's different when Sony says something? Yet Microsoft have a track record for hype BS where as Sony doesn't.

I'm not saying the PS5 is somehow better but I think people really failed to understand the presentation. The power difference between the consoles are a lot closer than you think.
 

Mynd

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I know what was said..
I'm not saying the statement in your above post isn't true. But Microsoft have a record of outputting unstable performance on their console.
Unstable?
What the hell does that even mean?
On paper with the XSX this doesn't seem to be an issue but I'm looking at my X and like that console, history may repeat itself when squeezing raw power. The two next gen consoles have very different approaches so it's going to be very interesting. People on this thread just see numbers and have no technical knowledge on what the practical output may look like. These are very close in performance but everyone here who doesn't understand the hardware see it very differently.
They don't have very different approaches to putting stuff on the screen. They both use exactly the same process for that, one of them however can complete a complex scene faster, There is absolutely no doubt about that. Anybody trying to say otherwise has their hea din the sand.

Now if you are trying to say "devs wont necessairly use all that power", that is possible, but also highly unlikely.
 

Justin9mm

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It's not running a boost clock speed, that is the base clock speed, it is exactly what it will run at all the time 1825 mhz. If you don't understand what you are trying to explain, do yourself a favor and stop.
Saying I don't understand is not going to work.. I do understand, how about you do yourself a favour and stop! I'm not even referring to the clock speeds which yes I understand what you said, I know it doesn't change. Maybe research how game development works.
 

Sacred

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Another fanboy.. Before I say what I'm going to say let me just tell you, I'm a proud owner of a One X.

First of the power difference is not 20-30%.. That's hilarious.

The load times are not the only benefit the PS5 SSD will bring. It will also contribute to squeezing out performance. You obviously have no idea how games are developed.

Sony have already explained they have an advanced cooling system to fix the previous issue with the PS4... So we believe everything Microsoft tells you but for some reason it's different when Sony says something? Yet Microsoft have a track record for hype BS where as Sony doesn't.

I'm not saying the PS5 is somehow better but I think people really failed to understand the presentation. The power difference between the consoles are a lot closer than you think.
Have you ever built a system, I have. Have you ever designed applications for various architectures, I have. Have you ever worked with unreal or unity, I have.

These specs are common sense, there is no miracle to make up the compute power difference between the two. A 825gb SSD running at over 5ghz is not going to allow extra shaders or a faster bus speed with more throughput. A boosted SOC that is stressing itself to meet the talked about clock speed cannot sustain that level without massive stress on the hardware. Sony made a huge mistake by shortchanging the CU count, they should have put more focus in giving devs are a solid SOC design with multithreading as the key to balance the load.
 
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Mynd

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Another fanboy.. Before I say what I'm going to say let me just tell you, I'm a proud owner of a One X.

First of the power difference is not 20-30%.. That's hilarious.

The load times are not the only benefit the PS5 SSD will bring. It will also contribute to squeezing out performance. You obviously have no idea how games are developed.
I do, Ive developed, and I can tell you that while the SSD is VERY cool, its certainly not the massive game changer in terms of 2.4 vs 5.5 that you and Cerny are trying to make out.
The example they used of some one turning around and loading the map as you turn is, frankly bollocks. You need to CACHE this first into new memory (while you're getting rid of the old stuff), and then once its loaded display it.
This will work in certain circumstances (large vistas, slow turning), but in a standard FPS? Not a chance. These things are loaded in chunks.

Sony have already explained they have an advanced cooling system to fix the previous issue with the PS4... So we believe everything Microsoft tells you but for some reason it's different when Sony says something? Yet Microsoft have a track record for hype BS where as Sony doesn't.
Yes their advanced cooling system is, that the system has a power limit, therefore it wont get hotter than a certain amount, it will just get SLOWER in that particular area.
Its not related to heat, but power, but the result is steady heat.
I'm not saying the PS5 is somehow better but I think people really failed to understand the presentation. The power difference between the consoles are a lot closer than you think.
Nope its not, its exactly what people think it is. How that will translate, is yet to be seen.
 
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DForce

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You know what, you are exactly right. That's just one more reason why the salty Sony folks need to come up with something better than "Xbox don't gots no games" to feel better about their weakass next gen machine.
So you admit Xbox fans did this earlier in the generation when their console was weaker?

Or what about saying exclusives don't matter before MS went out and bought studios?
 

Justin9mm

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Unstable?
What the hell does that even mean?

They don't have very different approaches to putting stuff on the screen. They both use exactly the same process for that, one of them however can complete a complex scene faster, There is absolutely no doubt about that. Anybody trying to say otherwise has their hea din the sand.

Now if you are trying to say "devs wont necessairly use all that power", that is possible, but also highly unlikely.
^^^^ That's exactly what I meant!

Unstable meaning, the One X for example is notoriously bad for chronic frame rate dips and stuttering / screen tearing. Stability is all over the shop all because of trying to push that extra resolution. I have the same fear when they push the XSX. Granted it will be able to do the resolution but push in other areas. The PS5 will have better power efficiency even in boost mode.

Again as I keep saying, I'm not trying to justify the PS5 is better or XSX is not as great as expected. I was originally arguing that the PS5 is not the powerless piece of shit people all over this forum seem to think. And yes I do understand the XSX is more powerful but the performance gap is closer than what X to Pro is.
 
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Justin9mm

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Have you ever built a system, I have. Have you ever designed applications for various architectures, I have. Have you ever worked with unreal or unity, I have.

These specs are common sense, there is no miracle to make up the compute power difference between the two. A 825gb SSD running at over 5ghz is not going to allow extra shaders or a faster bus speed with more throughput. A boosted SOC that is stressing itself to meet the talked about clock speed cannot sustain that level without massive stress on the hardware. Sony made a huge mistake by shortchanging the CU count, they should have put more focus in giving devs are a solid SOC design with multithreading as the key to balance the load.
Whilst I can see you have the knowledge, Sony did what they did for a reason. Yes some of it comes down to cost but I have no doubt that they know what they are doing with why they chose this approach. It's easy to think oh they fucked up but we will have to see how it plays out in the real world.
 

Mynd

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the One X for example is notoriously bad for chronic frame rate dips and stuttering / screen tearing. Stability is all over the shop all because of trying to push that extra resolution.
Notoriously bad?
Bullshit.
 

Roxkis_ii

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You can tell its a lot of hurt xbox fans on neogaf. Their pain runs deep. Suddenly, only Microsoft knows how to innovate. Their so passionate of their dislike of a competing console, they hold on to their tflops for dear life, ignoring devs and engineers. Like a person with a Napoleon complex. They kick up so dirt and fud, all just to hope for second or thrid in a console race.

It's actually kind of sad.


Xbox fans, its going to be okay. Microsoft will give you some games to look forward to. Your console isn't any worst because it isn't as popular as the rest.


Peace and love.
 
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ThatFrenchGuy

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Whilst I can see you have the knowledge, Sony did what they did for a reason. Yes some of it comes down to cost but I have no doubt that they know what they are doing with why they chose this approach. It's easy to think oh they fucked up but we will have to see how it plays out in the real world.
Noone is staying Sony fucked up. The PS5 will be a fine entertainment system. But you don't need to downplay the specs of the Series X just to make the PS5 look good.
 
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Justin9mm

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Noone is staying Sony fucked up. The PS5 will be a fine entertainment system. But you don't need to downplay the specs of the Series X just to make the PS5 look good.
Well you missed the whole conversation because that's not what i was saying at all. How does that translate to me downplaying the specs of the XSX? I own an Xbox One X so wtf are you talking about. I'm not some Sony Fanboy trying to discredit the XSX. And why do I need to make the PS5 look good if it 'will be a fine entertainment system'?
 
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Kerotan

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We aren't tho. We're talking about how Sony shit the bed with 9.2 tf vs a 12.1 tf xsx 😳😳😳
How did that power gap work out for xbox x when they continued to get absolutely dominated by ps4 in sales? Power isn't the only deciding factor but even at that the best looking games of the gen were on the pro because Sony has better developers.
 
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Mynd

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I'm currently playing my One X.. Many examples of these issues in many AAA titles playing in 4K. So.. Not bullshit.
Sounds like a fault X, I have one, I game on it, and Ive never had "notorious" issues.
Neither has Digital Foundry when they have done their anaylsis.
 

SleepDoctor

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You can tell its a lot of hurt xbox fans on neogaf. Their pain runs deep. Suddenly, only Microsoft knows how to innovate. Their so passionate of their dislike of a competing console, they hold on to their tflops for dear life, ignoring devs and engineers. Like a person with a Napoleon complex. They kick up so dirt and fud, all just to hope for second or thrid in a console race.

It's actually kind of sad.


Xbox fans, its going to be okay. Microsoft will give you some games to look forward to. Your console isn't any worst because it isn't as popular as the rest.


Peace and love.

Lmao going hard on the alt account there huh. Probably already had your real account banned 😭😭😭😭. The spin machine continues lol.
 
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SleepDoctor

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How did that power gap work out for xbox x when they continued to get absolutely dominated by ps4 in sales? Power isn't the only deciding factor but even at that the best looking games of the gen were on the pro because Sony has better developers.
Still living in the past lol. Keep it going champ 🤣
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Just for fun, Challenger Demon 840hp with semi slicks vs Nissan GT-R 600hp with regular tires (watch all rounds)



They stop before the turn so Demon doesn't hit the wall or go off track or smash the GT-R.

Teraflops = Horespower

It's not the whole story.
 
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Maxwell House

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Now MS ups the clock of the GPU and drops de mic.
That’s a scary scenario because MS really has left a lot of frequency headroom where they could do this fairly easily. Guess they think the extra heat, noise and wear isn’t worth it.

Microsoft could up the GPU clock to 2.0 GHz which would result in a 13.3 TF behemoth and would still not be running close to as overclocked as PS5 (2.23 Ghz).
 
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CatLady

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So you admit Xbox fans did this earlier in the generation when their console was weaker?

Or what about saying exclusives don't matter before MS went out and bought studios?
I'm saying the Sony warriors need to come up with something other than "Xbox don't gots no games" to justify choosing the inferior console.
 
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Maxwell House

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Out engineered? Get the fuck out of here with that absolute garbage statement. He made choices (in a vacuum) and was incorrect on what the competition was doing. Out engineered lol
What Cerny did with PS5 is basically the definition of being out engineered. Who in their right mind thinks going with 36 CUs for these next gen consoles is the right choice, especially given that the PS4 Pro was already at 36 CU? Why did he think MS would play along and limit themselves to such a degree? Due to that really horrible decision, he has had to overclock the crap out of the PS5 just to remain competitive, which adds heat, power consumption, wear and noise to the equation, a very inefficient way to get to a max 10.28 TF threshold. He got outengineered badly.
 
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SleepDoctor

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What Cerny did with PS5 is basically the definition of being out engineered. Who in their right mind thinks going with 36 CUs for these next gen consoles is the right choice, especially given that the PS4 Pro was already at 36 CU? Why did he think MS would play along and limit themselves to such a degree? Due to that really horrible decision, he has had to overclock the crap out of the PS5 just to remain competitive, which adds heat, power consumption, wear and noise to the equation, a very inefficient way to get to a max 10.28 TF threshold. He got outengineered badly.

I'd love to know where are all the guys saying Microsoft wouldn't outdo Cerny and that the X was only more powerful cuz they came out a year after the pro lol. Or the guys who said "ms is leaving the hardware business, they don't care about consoles anymore".
 

Arkam

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What Cerny did with PS5 is basically the definition of being out engineered. Who in their right mind thinks going with 36 CUs for these next gen consoles is the right choice, especially given that the PS4 Pro was already at 36 CU? Why did he think MS would play along and limit themselves to such a degree? Due to that really horrible decision, he has had to overclock the crap out of the PS5 just to remain competitive, which adds heat, power consumption, wear and noise to the equation, a very inefficient way to get to a max 10.28 TF threshold. He got outengineered badly.
 

Justin9mm

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Sounds like a fault X, I have one, I game on it, and Ive never had "notorious" issues.
Neither has Digital Foundry when they have done their anaylsis.
DF highlight them, all the time, screen tearing and fps dips.. I'm not saying this like the game is unplayable but these are issues to do with the optimisation of the game trying to push a higher frame rate. You're just defending now, this situation is factual. The X is widely known as having an unstable fps due to pushing the higher Dynamic 4K framerate!
 
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Sycomunkee

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You can tell its a lot of hurt xbox fans on neogaf. Their pain runs deep. Suddenly, only Microsoft knows how to innovate. Their so passionate of their dislike of a competing console, they hold on to their tflops for dear life, ignoring devs and engineers. Like a person with a Napoleon complex. They kick up so dirt and fud, all just to hope for second or thrid in a console race.

It's actually kind of sad.


Xbox fans, its going to be okay. Microsoft will give you some games to look forward to. Your console isn't any worst because it isn't as popular as the rest.


Peace and love.
After months of being told that the PS5 was going to be 13.3 TF and then everyone being ridiculed for believing the, actually true Github prediction, yeah, I would suppose that Xbox fans would love to shove it up Sony fan's asses. People have to think this 10.2 TF number is peak performance and 9.8TF is probably where the PS5 will sit most of the time. Otherwise, Sony has a RRoD on their hands. I'm not a fan of picking sides, but Microsoft did a damn good job this time around and credit is owed to where credit is due.

Cerny and Sony turned up the BS to make the PS5 sound more technical than it was. Microsoft's marketing approach was much better, more hands on and delivered a very clear message. Sony went on a rant about why their console is so good but forgot to make it exciting.
 

Maxwell House

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DF highlight them, all the time, screen tearing and fps dips.. I'm not saying this like the game is unplayable but these are issues to do with the optimisation of the game trying to push a higher frame rate. You're just defending now, this situation is factual. The X is widely known as having an unstable fps due to pushing the higher Dynamic 4K framerate!
Lol, what in the world are you talking about? That’s a bunch of made up nonsense. And do you really expect us to believe you own and play Xbox One X, lol, which proves you aren’t Sony Defense Force? Sure we do!
 
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Justin9mm

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After months of being told that the PS5 was going to be 13.3 TF and then everyone being ridiculed for believing the, actually true Github prediction, yeah, I would suppose that Xbox fans would love to shove it up Sony fan's asses. People have to think this 10.2 TF number is peak performance and 9.8TF is probably where the PS5 will sit most of the time. Otherwise, Sony has a RRoD on their hands. I'm not a fan of picking sides, but Microsoft did a damn good job this time around and credit is owed to where credit is due.

Cerny and Sony turned up the BS to make the PS5 sound more technical than it was. Microsoft's marketing approach was much better, more hands on and delivered a very clear message. Sony went on a rant about why their console is so good but forgot to make it exciting.
First of Microsoft did do a damn fine job! They are kicking goals already with XSX.

That being said, I'm pretty sure it was the other way round with months of being told 9 TF for PS5. I feel it was more Sony fans getting a kicking from Xbox fans.

But just be clear, that presentation from Cerny was not meant for consumers it was only because Coronavirus that the GDC event for developers was cancelled.. It was just a bad decision on their part to be so silent and then have every Tom, Dick and Harry watching on the edge of their seat for a glimpse of the PS5 because it was streamed and they put it out in a tweet. This presentation was not meant for you or me or any general consumer not involved in developing games.
 
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SleepDoctor

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Not really that different TBF. What matters is real time performance.
Real time performance. Then you should know the console can't run the 2.23ghz the whole time and not overheat just to reach 10.2

All while the xsx i locked at 1.83ghz and at 12.1. Just imagine if it was just clocked a little higher like say 2ghz. It'd probably be at or much closer to 13tf.
 
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KlickKlack

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1,8TF = PS4 = games like :

Horizon zero dawn, spiderman, gow, tlou etc.

Look how great this ganes look.
THAT'S RIDICULOUS AMOUNT OF POWER ADVANTAGE.

Stop downplaying this brutal difference
 
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