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Analysis 12.15 - 10.28= 1.87 Teraflops difference between the XSX and PS5 (52 CU's vs. 36 CU's)

eNT1TY

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Jul 7, 2019
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Man i remember back in the day overclockers' boogie man was electromigration damage to ic's. I am almost convinced that is a real potential threat to ps5's reliability. It isn't that much weaker than the Series X but the way they need to get there is somewhat alarming.
When all is said an done there isn't a whole lot 12tf can do that 10tf can't but when one machine is comfortably jogging to get to a certain place that the other machine must sprint taking lil breaks between bursts to arrive i know one of them is gonna need a little breather and perhaps some refreshment while the other barely broke a sweat.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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What is the key factor behind implementing only 36 CUs? Why not use, like, 48, or whatever?

Cost? power consumption?
If you look at all the Xbox and PS systems there's no natural pattern. Pro vs PS4 OG exactly doubled 36 vs 18, but now at 36 again. Xbox was 12, then I think 40, now at 52. All over the place.

There's probably a general trend that more CU = more power, but not all the time.
 
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Mynd

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yes they both are UP TO , noone said or believe that xbox has solid number, they both doing power caving and such and its UP TO. everyone just love those maxed numbers. doesnt even mean that devs could use any of those more TFL. but some people are just here to make threads and talk , they dont even play games anyway.
Not true. MS has stressed “locked”
 

MilkyJoe

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yes they both are UP TO , noone said or believe that xbox has solid number, they both doing power caving and such and its UP TO. everyone just love those maxed numbers. doesnt even mean that devs could use any of those more TFL. but some people are just here to make threads and talk , they dont even play games anyway.
No, MS is locked at 12.1.
 

scalman

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no nothing is locked anywhere. it would be just spupid , same as your PC cpu/gpu speed is variable depends on needs.
and most important thing, when they will release any of new xbox games i will be playing those on PC, and PS5 games i will be playing on PS5 , thats all you will need.
 
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CatLady

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Exclusive games are very important too, and if XSX cost $100 more, most gamers will not give a sh..t about 2 extra teraflop. If your logic were true, more people would buy more XBox One X since 2017 than PS4 Pro, but this is not the case. A lot of people are happy with PS4 PRO even though X offer better performance; weaker game experience, naaah, if I prefer the Sony exclusives, Playstation offer the stronger game experience, and viceversa.

I will buy both on day one, but this is just me. I do care a lot about better performance, but many other do not care about a 20% difference in TF.
Absolutely. Xbox's 15 (possibly 16) studios are just sitting around drinking coffee and shooting the shit, right?

Obsidian - working on THREE games right now - Grounded, Outer Worlds 2 and an undisclosed WRPG similar to Skyrim
Ninja Theory - Also working on THREE games at the Moment - Bleeding Edge just had an open Beta, Project Mara and of course the mind-blowing Hellblade 2
The Coalition - Getting ready to launch Gears Tactics and no doubt working on Gears 6
InXile - Can't remember what they are working on, probably another WRPG
Playground 1 -The always popular and high scoring Forza Horizon
Playground 2 - Fable reboot
Turn 10 - Forza MS
343 - The Xbox flagship - Halo Infinite
The Initiative - I think they actually ARE just sitting around shooting the ship - that's what their PR videos indicate

I don't know/recall what their other studios are working on but I don't think that sad Sony fanboy trope of 'Xbox don't got no games' is going to fly next gen, you'll need to come up with something else.
 

eNT1TY

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Jul 7, 2019
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no nothing is locked anywhere. it would be just spupid , same as your PC cpu/gpu speed is variable depends on needs.
and most important thing, when they will release any of new xbox games i will be playing those on PC, and PS5 games i will be playing on PS5 , thats all you will need.
I'm not so sure about that, it takes a few clicks in the bios to lock your clocks even on all cores. You would only do so if after testing for stability and being certain your component can handle it. If ms went with variable boost clocks they can probably occasionally hit 13.5 TF.
 
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KlickKlack

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I cannot believe that Cerny and his team were able to achieve 10.28 Teraflops with just 36 CUs!

XSX needed 52 CU's (16 additional CU's) to achieve an additional 1.87 Teraflops, which is not much of a difference when you really think about it. I guess one of the senior engineers at Microsoft really loves Blink-187 and wanted to pay homage to them in a way.

The power consumption of the XSX will be massive because of its heavy reliance on 52 CU's while the PS5 were cost and power consumption effective with just 36 CU's.

This thread is to start a conversation about whether the XSX's 52 CU's was efficient or not to achieve that additional 1.87 Teraflops gain or not.
that is the best troll today😂

👍
 

Mynd

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Jun 20, 2010
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no nothing is locked anywhere. it would be just spupid , same as your PC cpu/gpu speed is variable depends on needs.
and most important thing, when they will release any of new xbox games i will be playing those on PC, and PS5 games i will be playing on PS5 , thats all you will need.
oh yeah this is why I don’t post here.
Half of you make your own world up.
 

Filippos

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Absolutely. Xbox's 15 (possibly 16) studios are just sitting around drinking coffee and shooting the shit, right?

Obsidian - working on THREE games right now - Grounded, Outer Worlds 2 and an undisclosed WRPG similar to Skyrim
Ninja Theory - Also working on THREE games at the Moment - Bleeding Edge just had an open Beta, Project Mara and of course the mind-blowing Hellblade 2
The Coalition - Getting ready to launch Gears Tactics and no doubt working on Gears 6
InXile - Can't remember what they are working on, probably another WRPG
Playground 1 -The always popular and high scoring Forza Horizon
Playground 2 - Fable reboot
Turn 10 - Forza MS
343 - The Xbox flagship - Halo Infinite
The Initiative - I think they actually ARE just sitting around shooting the ship - that's what their PR videos indicate

I don't know/recall what their other studios are working on but I don't think that sad Sony fanboy trope of 'Xbox don't got no games' is going to fly next gen, you'll need to come up with something else.
still, no Games. Only Forza, Halo and Gears.
/s
 

DryvBy

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Holy crap! It has more Turtle Flops?! Someone should do investigations on the TerrorFloppers.

Seriously, I can't believe this marketing works on people. No one was talking TurdFlops in the last gen because it's a metric, not a true measure of performance.
 

Clear

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Feb 2, 2009
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Holy crap! It has more Turtle Flops?! Someone should do investigations on the TerrorFloppers.

Seriously, I can't believe this marketing works on people. No one was talking TurdFlops in the last gen because it's a metric, not a true measure of performance.
Its the same people they marketed the One X at. basically a minority for whom power is a big deal but apparently are impervious to the charms of PC gaming,
 
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frogger

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I heard a few analysts say on you tube that the variable clocks in PS5's CPU and GPU mean it is going to be really hard to maximize both at the same time. Not sure if it is true.
 
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Solid_Rain

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If you look at all the Xbox and PS systems there's no natural pattern. Pro vs PS4 OG exactly doubled 36 vs 18, but now at 36 again. Xbox was 12, then I think 40, now at 52. All over the place.

There's probably a general trend that more CU = more power, but not all the time.
Assumption:
I think the rational was to enable devs to to get up to speed with the platform more quickly.

Cerny mentioned it at the start of the presentation, but I'm no developer so who knows.
 
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sinnergy

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I heard a few analysts say on you tube that the variable clocks in PS5's CPU and GPU mean it is going to be really hard to maximize both at the same time. Not sure if it is true.
That will be the case, that’s how it works ... that’s why fixed clocks are better , but 9.2 looked shit on paper next to 12, so they gotta do something...
 
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TheKingOfPain

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Ok, I won't pretend I fully understand the tech lingo, so I'm going to bluntly ask: what is this difference really supposed to mean for a third party game? 4k60 on XSeX and 4k30 on PS5? 4k60 on both, but with different Image Quality? Considering I have a 1080p screen (no HDR), how much will the difference impact my experience? Is it even possible to say yet?
Sorry if I sound ignorant, but in the end this is what I care to know.
 

eNT1TY

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Jul 7, 2019
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Ok, I won't pretend I fully understand the tech lingo, so I'm going to bluntly ask: what is this difference really supposed to mean for a third party game? 4k60 on XSeX and 4k30 on PS5? 4k60 on both, but with different Image Quality? Considering I have a 1080p screen (no HDR), how much will the difference impact my experience? Is it even possible to say yet?
Sorry if I sound ignorant, but in the end this is what I care to know.
I seriously doubt a 4k/30 to 4k/60 split on games with only a 2TF differnce. If the ps5 is in full tilt to run something at 4k/30 the x will probably run it with the same exertion at 4k/40ish. That's when VRR gets to flex. I expect more of a difference in lod transitions/draw distances favorign the x like higher detail on distant shadows more visible distant light sources and the such on like for like scenarios targeting the same performance; things you would really need to look for but will be apparent when you do.
 
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GymWolf

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Ok, I won't pretend I fully understand the tech lingo, so I'm going to bluntly ask: what is this difference really supposed to mean for a third party game? 4k60 on XSeX and 4k30 on PS5? 4k60 on both, but with different Image Quality? Considering I have a 1080p screen (no HDR), how much will the difference impact my experience? Is it even possible to say yet?
Sorry if I sound ignorant, but in the end this is what I care to know.
better resolution
some more little details
more stable framerate

if sex is 4k60, ps5 is gonna be fake 4k or 1800p or 4k and unstable 60 frame with a mix of medium-low.
(with faster loading times and maybe less pop in on ps5)

maybe the ssd or that strange boost is gonna help to mitigate differences, but historically multy are almost always better in the hardware with more raw power.

exclusives are gonna be on par technically and only the talent of the various studios it's gonna be important.
but i can see sony studios having a little edge overall, microsoft still has something to prove in terms of graphics except for forza horizon and ori, a cinematic in engine of hellblade 2 is not enough of a proof right now.
 
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Eliciel

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I am really Not fully positive whether or not this Thread is sarcastic or not. Even the answers Seem so elaborate and serious.. ist this a real Thread? Is this the tempest experience?
 
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nordique

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At the end of the day, the SX is more powerful based on the specs alone

The price is another consideration though.

In 2013 the ps4 was a no brainer - more powerful and cheaper and a smaller than the competition

If ps5 can come in cheaper, it will make it’s a tough decision especially if games look the same

If they’re the same price, The SX will be a better deal presuming third party parity


Most gamers will end up buying both regardless, if it’s one or the other and you don’t care for fanboy wars, the XS is more attractive at this point in time

We still haven’t seen the games themselves nor what the ps5 actually looks like, nor launch lineup, nor pricing...there’s just so much more than just power to be considered overall

But on power alone, SX is ahead. Can’t argue with the specs.
 
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Rightisright

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There is no replacement for displacement.
Think of the PS5 as a turbo 4 cylinder car, while the XSX is a high torque V8.
 
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DForce

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Absolutely. Xbox's 15 (possibly 16) studios are just sitting around drinking coffee and shooting the shit, right?

Obsidian - working on THREE games right now - Grounded, Outer Worlds 2 and an undisclosed WRPG similar to Skyrim
Ninja Theory - Also working on THREE games at the Moment - Bleeding Edge just had an open Beta, Project Mara and of course the mind-blowing Hellblade 2
The Coalition - Getting ready to launch Gears Tactics and no doubt working on Gears 6
InXile - Can't remember what they are working on, probably another WRPG
Playground 1 -The always popular and high scoring Forza Horizon
Playground 2 - Fable reboot
Turn 10 - Forza MS
343 - The Xbox flagship - Halo Infinite
The Initiative - I think they actually ARE just sitting around shooting the ship - that's what their PR videos indicate

I don't know/recall what their other studios are working on but I don't think that sad Sony fanboy trope of 'Xbox don't got no games' is going to fly next gen, you'll need to come up with something else.

Well, according to Xbox fans, these games don't matter because only a few gamers care about exclusive\console exclusive games, right?
 

CatLady

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Well, according to Xbox fans, these games don't matter because only a few gamers care about exclusive\console exclusive games, right?
You know what, you are exactly right. That's just one more reason why the salty Sony folks need to come up with something better than "Xbox don't gots no games" to feel better about their weakass next gen machine.
 
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Mynd

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The narrative of faster and narrow and more balanced has to stop.
This is simply history repeating itself with the show on the other foot.

Some facts

The Xbox One launched with 12 CU's at 933mhz
The PS4 launched with 18 CU's at 800mhz..

The PS4 had 50% more CU count than the Xbox One
The Xbox had 16% more speed.

The XSX has 52 CU's at 1823mhz
The PS4 has 36 Cu's at up to 2233mhz

The XSX has 44% more CU count than PS5
The Ps4 has up to 22% more speed.

We've heard wasted cycles, and balanced before.


Nick Baker:
Increasing the frequency impacts the whole of the GPU whereas adding CUs beefs up shaders and ALU.

Andrew Goossen:
Right. By fixing the clock, not only do we increase our ALU performance, we also increase our vertex rate, we increase our pixel rate and ironically increase our ESRAM bandwidth. But we also increase the performance in areas surrounding bottlenecks like the drawcalls flowing through the pipeline, the performance of reading GPRs out of the GPR pool, etc. GPUs are giantly complex. There's gazillions of areas in the pipeline that can be your bottleneck in addition to just ALU and fetch performance.

If you go to VGleaks, they had some internal docs from our competition. Sony was actually agreeing with us. They said that their system was balanced for 14 CUs. They used that term: balance. Balance is so important in terms of your actual efficient design. Their additional four CUs are very beneficial for their additional GPGPU work. We've actually taken a very different tack on that. The experiments we did showed that we had headroom on CUs as well. In terms of balance, we did index more in terms of CUs than needed so we have CU overhead. There is room for our titles to grow over time in terms of CU utilisation, but getting back to us versus them, they're betting that the additional CUs are going to be very beneficial for GPGPU workloads. Whereas we've said that we find it very important to have bandwidth for the GPGPU workload and so this is one of the reasons why we've made the big bet on very high coherent read bandwidth that we have on our system.
That's from 2013 Xbox One interview Digital Foundry did when MS was getting slammed for having 12 vs 18 Cu's.

We all know how this ended up working.
We all know how this played across the generation.

Stop hoping for something different this gen.
 

Justin9mm

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The narrative of faster and narrow and more balanced has to stop.
This is simply history repeating itself with the show on the other foot.

Some facts

The Xbox One launched with 12 CU's at 933mhz
The PS4 launched with 18 CU's at 800mhz..

The PS4 had 50% more CU count than the Xbox One
The Xbox had 16% more speed.

The XSX has 52 CU's at 1823mhz
The PS4 has 36 Cu's at up to 2233mhz

The XSX has 44% more CU count than PS5
The Ps4 has up to 22% more speed.

We've heard wasted cycles, and balanced before.




That's from 2013 Xbox One interview Digital Foundry did when MS was getting slammed for having 12 vs 18 Cu's.

We all know how this ended up working.
We all know how this played across the generation.

Stop hoping for something different this gen.
Different type of tech.. The CU's were not the same in comparison. You're just trying to shoot down any positives about it. The performance gap difference between XSX vs PS5 is not the same as PS4 vs Xbox One. It just isn't. I'm not saying Xbox isn't more powerful but the noticeable difference will be very minor at best. Even less than X to Pro.
 

grfunkulus

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This is just speculation and until it's proven with facts, then it should be treated as FUD.
Nope. Sony left us to speculate and doubt for weeks and weeks after MS's announcements. They could have come out VERY clearly and dispelled all these rumors and they didn't. Anyone without an agenda can figure out why.

Question me all day long. I have no console allegiance. I just call 'em like I see 'em.
 
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Justin9mm

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Source for what? The sky is blue, you want a source for that?

You are confused with Cerny's wording.. The XSX 12.1 is their highest compute power. Just because Spencer didn't say up to doesn't mean everything will be developed and running at maximum capacity of 12.1.
 
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SleepDoctor

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XSX is up to 12.1.. It depends on development/developer.. 10.28 can be sustained just like XSX.. Did you actually watch the presentation.

Xsx is locked, so therefore 12.18 all the time.

Ps5 is 9.2 and overclocking tf out of itself for a measly extra flop. At least get more creative spinning.
 
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