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120/144Hz Thread of Lightboosting Pixel Perfect Headshots
- Thread starter mkenyon
- Start date
It'll probably be better than existing TN monitors. Main problems with TN are generally inherent panel homogeneity issues as well as bad colour space coverage. You can probably improve colour space coverage but you'll always have panel homogeneity issues so image quality purists will always be turned off - it'll be dead obvious on any block of colour like a webpage.
I have never had a large TN screen, so especially now that G-Sync displays are showing up all TN, I'm curious what the drawbacks are. I have thought that viewing angle would be TN's worst problem in gaming use. For instance, if the correct image would be 100% black, do you get glowy gray on the top and bottom of a large TN panel because the only part of the panel you are viewing head on is the middle?
Basically. There are many reasons why a lot of TN panels can look pretty dreadful. The main ones include:
- Sometimes bad colour space coverage below 90% sRGB. Colours look dull, wrong and everything. It must be said that no 120hz monitor should ever have this problem.
- Noticeable gamma and contrast shift. Basically bad viewing angles. Larger the panel, the bigger this issue is. No, keeping your head centered doesn't get rid of this issue.
- TN panels need overdrive to have good response times. Manufacturers often screw this up and add noise to motion. BenQ is the biggest offender here.
- Poor colour calibration. People buying them don't care so manufacturers don't care. This also means the internal electronics (mainly the look-up table) aren't actually that great so they're actually ill-suited for software calibration if you want to go that route.
Because of these problems there are still ongoing concerns about the ROG Swift's colour quality. I really hope Asus gets this monitor out to the mass market soonish because I actually want to see how far TN panels have progressed.
To relate this post back to Asus' marketing talk about their 8-bit panel, I'm not 100% sure if an 8-bit panel actually means anything significant. Historically, TN panels have had some pretty dreadful dithering but this problem has long been solved among IPS panels. You'd be hard pressed to tell a native 8-bit IPS panel from a 6-bit + FRC IPS panel.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
What are some good gaming IPS panels? I think I need to go IPS to preserve my eyesight since I spend so much of my day at the computer.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
So no IPS needed?
michaelius
Banned
You'll definitely still notice banding if you do greyscale tests but its improved enough that I just don't think its a major concern at all for the target market. If Asus uses a 10-bit LUT, it probably doesn't matter if they use a 8-bit or 6-bit + FRC panel.
Maybe the better viewing angles might help with eyestrain but flickering has always been the leading cause of fatigue so I doubt IPS or TN really matters.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Well, I'm on a 3 year old TN monitor right now and that grey scale doesn't really look dithered at all. However the viewing angle test on that site really shows how intense the viewing angle messes with the colors, and there's no good angle to really get the entire screen to be what it should be.
That said, I'm still looking forward to getting a high speed TN g-sync monitor. I think the studdering and tearing is what makes me feel sick when playing PC games for an hour, and I have the added benefit of not really knowing what I'm missing out on with IPS.
mdrejhon
Member
Depends on whether your fatigue is caused by flicker, or caused by poor motion clarity. There are cases where blur-reduction strobing actually reduced gaming fatigue, outweighing the side effects of flicker. It is person dependant. See LightBoost testimonials as an example.
There are also now LightBoost sequels, that are better than LightBoost with less color distortion.
NVIDIA ULMB -- a lightboost sequel included with GSYNC
EIZO Turbo240 -- found in FG2421
BENQ Blur Reduction -- found in BENQ Z-Series.
You may find that in some countries (e.g. BENQ XL2411Z) might be cheaper than the ASUS VG248QE. However, if GSYNC is important to you, you may prefer to wait. There is a list of GSYNC monitors if you are wanting to keep tabs of the various models of upcoming GSYNC monitors that haven't been released yet.
mdrejhon
Member
That one has BENQ Blur Reduction, which provided if it is Version 2 firmware, is superior to LightBoost overall.
Make sure you verify that it's Version 2, for compatibility with the free Blur Busters Strobe Utility.
mdrejhon
Member
It's a matter of personal preference, since there is a double image effect at 60fps@120Hz that looks similar to the 30fps@60Hz effect. Some people don't mind, while some others hate it.
However, there's also motion-blur-reducing strobe backlights now that works at all refresh rates. BENQ Z-Series has Blur Reduction (like LightBoost) that works at 60fps@60Hz. Flickers a hell lot more, like a 60Hz CRT, but you can use any refresh rate in 1Hz increments.
The various "brand names" of LightBoost equivalents as follows:
LightBoost (1st gen) -- limited to 100Hz, 120Hz
Turbo240 -- limited to 105-120Hz
ULMB -- limited to 85Hz, 100Hz, 120Hz
BENQ Blur Reduction -- strobing works at 60Hz through 144Hz in 1Hz increments
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
So anyone else with the XL2420Z know why this isn't letting me customize every setting? Different modes disable adjustments in different settings, and despite what the manual says, the supposedly fully customizable gamer sets at the end do not allow you to adjust everything. I'm using standard now because it allows me to change most of what I prefer to, but I'd still like access to the black equalizer setting at the same time.
It's really weird because some different modes seem super bright/washed out even if you adjust things to match other modes. I can't tell what is going on with this but it's just sooooo bright compared to any other monitor I've seen. I have to set it to gamma 5 to be reasonable. I checked and it does have firmware V2 so it should be okay.
It's really weird because some different modes seem super bright/washed out even if you adjust things to match other modes. I can't tell what is going on with this but it's just sooooo bright compared to any other monitor I've seen. I have to set it to gamma 5 to be reasonable. I checked and it does have firmware V2 so it should be okay.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Yeah the color on this is pretty bad compared to my old LG, which was also a TN. I had to go into CCC and change the hue to +7 to take most of the green out of the oranges. Now reds are ever so slightly pink and blues aren't as vibrantly blue, but I'll just have to accept what I'm getting here because the green in oranges and skin tones was killing me before. Boosting saturation a bit helped some.
s-bojan
Banned
It's finally possible to buy Benq Z-series monitors in my country. Seller is not able to tell which firmware is preinstalled, so I've sent the email to Benq EU asking if it is possible to send it to them for upgrade if needed).
These are the prices:
- XL2411Z 295e (400$)
- XL2420Z 410e (560$)
- XL2720Z 460e (625$)
I am still deciding which one to buy (pretty sure that I will not pick XL2420Z).
Suggestions?
These are the prices:
- XL2411Z 295e (400$)
- XL2420Z 410e (560$)
- XL2720Z 460e (625$)
I am still deciding which one to buy (pretty sure that I will not pick XL2420Z).
Suggestions?
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
So until tonight I didn't play FPS on the new monitor aside from Wolfenstein which isn't really a precision ordeal and runs like shit on my system anyway. However, I just bought BF4 and I was headshotting like crazy, like I haven't done since UT/Q3... the last time I had a CRT. And here I thought my skills were just gone.
The thread title doesn't lie! ALL HAIL 120HZ!!
The thread title doesn't lie! ALL HAIL 120HZ!!
So, I am looking to upgrade from a 1920x1080 @ 60Hz monitor, and I am undecided between these two:
I am mainly gaming on my PC, but I do wish to play movies as well. I heard great things about the richer color on IPS panels, and I think I would really enjoy the increased resolution. Yet, as this thread is geared toward 120/144Hz, I know this can be amazing too.
The Rog Swift may be a middle ground to what I want, but it is practically double the price of the current PB278Q. Perhaps there are other options besides the Asus monitors I mentioned?
- Asus PB278Q (2560x1440 @ 60Hz) - IPS Panel
- Asus VG248QE (1920x1080 @ 144Hz) - TN Panel
I am mainly gaming on my PC, but I do wish to play movies as well. I heard great things about the richer color on IPS panels, and I think I would really enjoy the increased resolution. Yet, as this thread is geared toward 120/144Hz, I know this can be amazing too.
The Rog Swift may be a middle ground to what I want, but it is practically double the price of the current PB278Q. Perhaps there are other options besides the Asus monitors I mentioned?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Monitor will be in soon. What's a good demo on Steam or Origin that would be good to test? Something that's not so new would probably be better since I'd be able to more easily achieve higher frame rates.
Quake Live, Warsow, CoD even.
If you play a lot of action games, 120/144Hz. If you play a lot of RPGs and strategy games, IPS.
Eizo Foris FG2421, 120Hz 1080p VA panel. Great black level and contrast, which is particularly good for movies but also makes a lot of dark or high-contrast games pop. Almost the motion clarity of the TN, almost the viewing angles of the IPS. If you chose a bunch of random games and compared the Eizo head to head against one of the other displays, I think it'd probably come out ahead something like 70-80% of the time, whenever the game doesn't happen to hit the exact strengths of the other display.
Doesn't have the 1440p resolution, obviously, but that can also be a good thing as it gives you much more GPU flexibility - this was one factor for me in getting the Eizo rather than 1440p. Can't push 60FPS on 1440p in a given game? Sadness ensues. Can't push 120FPS on 1080p in a given game? You just drop down to 60FPS and still enjoy smooth framerate without ugly scaling.
Well, that's the thing about the RoG Swift (if you have an NVIDIA VGA), is that you can just use G-Sync mode when ULMB isn't an option to get buttery smooth frames.
I think I'm with you in still preferring the FG2421 though. I was pretty set on getting a Swift, but I think I'm going to go with the Eizo instead.
Here's hoping for a future VA/OLED G-Sync 1440p display.
I think I'm with you in still preferring the FG2421 though. I was pretty set on getting a Swift, but I think I'm going to go with the Eizo instead.
Here's hoping for a future VA/OLED G-Sync 1440p display.
I was not commenting about the RoG Swift given that he seemed to have dismissed it already on price grounds. I think the FG2421 is a comfortable, all-around good choice with no real weaknesses, compared to the Swift which costs more, has both significant downsides and upsides, and is clearly going to be the right choice for much fewer people. But that doesn't mean the Swift is a bad deal at all.
I might actually have gotten the Swift myself, but the decision was made for me when my old display died some time ago and Swift wasn't even close to market. If I was only considering gaming, I think I would still have went with the Eizo to have the black level, contrast, viewing angles, etc. which are all stuff I find very important. Why I could possibly have gone with Swift is to get 1440p for non-gaming desktop use, and then have G-Sync so the high resolution doesn't force me to spend a ton on GPUs for games to run smoothly.
Jules Coast
Member
If you can't run a game above 60 fps do these monitors make a difference?
And how about outside of gaming, like for regular web browsing. Does it look/feel different?
Thanks.
And how about outside of gaming, like for regular web browsing. Does it look/feel different?
Thanks.
Not sure about below 60 fps. I'd say it doesn't.
For regular webrowsing, yes, much smoother.
Unless you only play the latest games or have a really old computer there's probably something you can play that will hit above 60 fps, the Ys games for instance can get crazy high, and it'd probably be fun revisiting the Quake games this way.
They tend to be high quality in other ways besides having 120/144Hz, but depends on the display.
Subjective. Everyone can see the difference immediately when they are looking for it (eg. read text in a window you are dragging) but I personally wouldn't notice if someone just switched my desktop to 60Hz, and I don't consider it a meaningful difference in everyday desktopping. Some people are more sensitive. I recall mkenyon said he experiences less eye fatigue with 120Hz.
Also, 120Hz displays can automatically do 24p and show movies with zero judder (they just need to show five frames in a row). I don't know if 60Hz displays regularly have a 24p feature these days?
BenQ XL2411Z is what I'd go with if there was no intention for adding the DIY G-Sync Kit.
Everything is smoother, my eyes are happier in general.
The only games you'd have to worry about are the big graphic hog SP titles. Most multiplayer games are pretty easy to hit 90-120 fps in, even with a mid-tier GPU.
I have a Samsung 27" 750D monitor which is 120hz and can do its own variant of lightboost.
As much as I like the smoothness and blur reduction, the washed out colors and dulling of brightness made me think I was using an old CRT monitor from 1997 that has had 100,000 hours of use.
Perhaps the Benq and Asus monitors are better, but I'm hoping that GSync can give a similar smooth performance without the color and brightness issues.
As much as I like the smoothness and blur reduction, the washed out colors and dulling of brightness made me think I was using an old CRT monitor from 1997 that has had 100,000 hours of use.
Perhaps the Benq and Asus monitors are better, but I'm hoping that GSync can give a similar smooth performance without the color and brightness issues.
TouchMyBox
Member
It does since it can display the frames you render quicker, but it obviously won't be an enormous difference.
Just get this instead if your desk can handle the weight. FW900 is still the best.
Continuing the CRT porn theme, I had the high end Philips range, which were also very good CRT gaming monitors. I kept using it until 2010 purely for my FPS gaming.
Yeah, the lightboost on the Sammys isn't as good as the newer BenQs and ASUS. I had the S23A and I couldn't use it with the strobing utility as it made it look like garbage.
I remember seeing one in 2010, running on the demo shelf of some department store in Osaka with all the other laptops. It's just a hard thing to market I guess.
OnionPowder
Member
So when G-sync monitors are finally a thing they'll have a version of lightboost built in? This will make me jump on one so quick.
The XL2411Z does already. So does the Eizo Foris.
OnionPowder
Member
Does it have the option of a variable refresh rate? I play a lot of graphic hog games that won't benefit from 120 FPS/lightboost
With Acer, Asus and AOC G-Sync displays announced to launch within a month, why would you DIY now?
Wendel Clark
Member
http://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/list-of-gsync-monitors/
What's the expected price point of the g-sync monitors? I'm guessing 450+?
ASUS ROG Swift PG278Q will be 799
What's the expected price point of the g-sync monitors? I'm guessing 450+?
ASUS ROG Swift PG278Q will be 799
ColonelSkills
Member
I'm not sure how much of a pain in the ass it's going to be to get a Swift in Canada, but I imagine it won't be fun and will carry a significant markup. I'm going to have to talk to some suppliers around here to see if I can even get one without having to wait for months or if it's even plausible before the fall.
I'm very likely passing through the states and by three micrometers in August.
Yeah.