Not exactly side by side, but I use both my 60Hz laptop display and my FG2421 right after each other.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
120/144Hz Thread of Lightboosting Pixel Perfect Headshots
- Thread starter mkenyon
- Start date
Not exactly side by side, but I use both my 60Hz laptop display and my FG2421 right after each other.
Thank you both. Will buy a 120/144Hz display sometime down the line in that case.
Blak_Status
Member
I need to save and get that Seiki 4k TV. Seems like the best option for us "couch gamers".
Only if there's a monster gaming PC in the living room. High-DPI Windows is torture and for the same money you can get a better 1080p TV for ugh..TV things.
Got one of the last Panasonic GT60s a month ago, that plasma motion resolution is just freakish. Shootyman games suddenly became acceptable at 30fps and this is coming from a Quake player with a Lightboost monitor. I hope the 4K focus leads to 1080p/120 (good) strobed IPS options, can't imagine playing on anything less now.
Got one of the last Panasonic GT60s a month ago, that plasma motion resolution is just freakish. Shootyman games suddenly became acceptable at 30fps and this is coming from a Quake player with a Lightboost monitor. I hope the 4K focus leads to 1080p/120 (good) strobed IPS options, can't imagine playing on anything less now.
Blak_Status
Member
Yup.. got a monster gaming pc in the living room lol. Hopefully, something better than the Seiki is out by the summer. If not, Seiki 4k TV it is.
Fried Food
Banned
As of now I find the ULMB mode of the DIY gsync kit to be inferior than lightboost. light boost at 10% brightness had a consistently smooth motion appearance. I've haven't been able to get the same level of (lack of)motion blur on the ufo motion test with ULMB. There is always some blur. 10% light boost was crystal clear
Is this the QNIX that can be overclocked successfully without dropping frames? http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CI3EQA2/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Yes.
SpiceMelange
Member
I don't really know much about lightboost and gsync, just to be sure those two concept are mutually exclusive right ? (you can only use one at a time) Light boost eliminate blurring and gsync eliminate stuttering no matter your fps, but don't affect motion blur nor input lag.
Does lightboost work no matter your current fps or do you need to be at a fps matching your screen refresh rate?
Will it be possible in the future to have gsync with motion blur eliminated?
Does lightboost work no matter your current fps or do you need to be at a fps matching your screen refresh rate?
Will it be possible in the future to have gsync with motion blur eliminated?
s-bojan
Banned
I would really like to see this in person:
http://www.blurbusters.com/lightboost-for-60hz-gaming-consoles/
http://www.blurbusters.com/lightboost-for-60hz-gaming-consoles/
60 Hz flicker is unbearable for me.
I wonder if you could somehow combine ultr-low-latency motion prediction to get an in-between frame (purely from prediction startign from previous frames, without the next one) and use that to do 120 Hz strobing on 60 Hz games. Probably far too many artifacts for any unpredictable movement though :/
michaelius
Banned
Sony has 240 Hz panel with strobing in W905 bravias - isn't it something similar ?
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Kind of interested in the ASUS VG248QE.
On a scale of 1-10, how awesome is it? I know it's mentioned in OP as one of the good ones, I just don't know if its 500 dollars good (price+postage to aus).
On a scale of 1-10, how awesome is it? I know it's mentioned in OP as one of the good ones, I just don't know if its 500 dollars good (price+postage to aus).
grandwizard
Member
I recently got a VG246QE with G-Sync and have been using it for around a week so I figured I'd post my impressions for anyone on the fence. This is my first monitor upgrade in a long while and I am upgrading from a previous 120hz TN 1680x1050 panel which was one of the earliest 120hz consumer screens.
1. Colors: The colors are way better than my old 120hz screen from 2006ish, I understand they are probably terrible compared to a modern IPS screen. However I've always valued the response time over color reproduction which is what led me to 120hz+ screens to begin with (I found LCDs near unusable before they were introduced, and would still use my old Iiyama CRT). I went through the lagom.nl LCD tests with this screen and it seemed to pass all of them, so I'm pretty happy with how it looks. If you are super into the best colors though you should probably look elsewhere.
2. Resolution: I debated waiting for a 1440p monitor but really I think 1080p will be the sweet spot for me in these coming years as I use midrange PC hardware and 1440p will be hard to maintain at framerates I like. Pretty much how 1680x1050 was for me this past few years. Pretty happy with it.
3. G-Sync: It's amazing. I've been going back and playing some graphically demanding games on my i5-750/660 setup and it really is a striking difference. I think it is really good for where I stand on the hardware power spectrum and will help a lot with the upcoming games of this current generation. A trained eye will probably not confuse 40fps for 60fps like some of the previews said, but the fact is that drops to 40-50fps are FAR less disruptive to the overall smoothness and responsiveness of the picture. When I first started playing Metro Last Light I was watching the FPS counter like a hawk to make note of the drops, but before long I had just forgot it entirely and got sucked into the experience, playing through demanding areas and scenes without the performance issues reaching my mind. It's a really nice upgrade and I highly recommend it.
4. ULMB: I missed out on Lightboost because I kept my previous 120hz screen for so long and that was from before Lightboost was a thing, so I skipped right to the new implementation that comes with G-Sync called ULMB. It's pretty incredible, it's one of those things I didn't know I was actually missing out on because I didn't think I had much motion blur to begin with. Loading up CS:GO or the scrolling tests on the blur busters site quickly educated me. One thing to note is the colors do suffer in ULMB mode, and everything does get a 'washed out' look. For the games that I would use this on like CS:GO, I don't mind that because for competitive games you kind of stop caring about the graphics anyway, but it is definitely something to note for people who are going to want to use it on everything. I have yet to try it in 3D.
Overall I'm really impressed with the screen and I recommend if it you are already familiar and OK with TN panels.
1. Colors: The colors are way better than my old 120hz screen from 2006ish, I understand they are probably terrible compared to a modern IPS screen. However I've always valued the response time over color reproduction which is what led me to 120hz+ screens to begin with (I found LCDs near unusable before they were introduced, and would still use my old Iiyama CRT). I went through the lagom.nl LCD tests with this screen and it seemed to pass all of them, so I'm pretty happy with how it looks. If you are super into the best colors though you should probably look elsewhere.
2. Resolution: I debated waiting for a 1440p monitor but really I think 1080p will be the sweet spot for me in these coming years as I use midrange PC hardware and 1440p will be hard to maintain at framerates I like. Pretty much how 1680x1050 was for me this past few years. Pretty happy with it.
3. G-Sync: It's amazing. I've been going back and playing some graphically demanding games on my i5-750/660 setup and it really is a striking difference. I think it is really good for where I stand on the hardware power spectrum and will help a lot with the upcoming games of this current generation. A trained eye will probably not confuse 40fps for 60fps like some of the previews said, but the fact is that drops to 40-50fps are FAR less disruptive to the overall smoothness and responsiveness of the picture. When I first started playing Metro Last Light I was watching the FPS counter like a hawk to make note of the drops, but before long I had just forgot it entirely and got sucked into the experience, playing through demanding areas and scenes without the performance issues reaching my mind. It's a really nice upgrade and I highly recommend it.
4. ULMB: I missed out on Lightboost because I kept my previous 120hz screen for so long and that was from before Lightboost was a thing, so I skipped right to the new implementation that comes with G-Sync called ULMB. It's pretty incredible, it's one of those things I didn't know I was actually missing out on because I didn't think I had much motion blur to begin with. Loading up CS:GO or the scrolling tests on the blur busters site quickly educated me. One thing to note is the colors do suffer in ULMB mode, and everything does get a 'washed out' look. For the games that I would use this on like CS:GO, I don't mind that because for competitive games you kind of stop caring about the graphics anyway, but it is definitely something to note for people who are going to want to use it on everything. I have yet to try it in 3D.
Overall I'm really impressed with the screen and I recommend if it you are already familiar and OK with TN panels.
^ I agree with all the above, particularly about how amazing G-sync is at frame rates in the 40s and 50s. Sadly my VG246QE is gathering dust nonetheless, since I learned that after almost a decade of S-PVA and IPS I simply cannot deal with TN.
TV is far far simpler than games, since you can use both past and future frames to calculate in-betweens.
Spazznid
Member
I can't really go back. I paid only 2-300 USD for it, and I absolutely love it. 9 out of 10
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Wait G-Synch is out?
Fuck.
I can't see any listings for it anywhere in Aus.
Fuck.
I can't see any listings for it anywhere in Aus.
Prophet Steve
Member
It has been out for a few months I think, but it goes out of stock often.
So, for motion fiends, has anyone looked at a Gameboy Color or original GBA screen lately?
I was playing some GBC last night and it struck me again just how incredibly crisp the display is in motion. There is no ghosting, blurring or trailing. It is razor sharp in motion and easily on par with CRTs or a light-boosted monitor.
That said, I'm not really clear on how a non-backlit LCD functions in this way. It really seems as if the backlight is responsible for loss of motion resolution.
I was playing some GBC last night and it struck me again just how incredibly crisp the display is in motion. There is no ghosting, blurring or trailing. It is razor sharp in motion and easily on par with CRTs or a light-boosted monitor.
That said, I'm not really clear on how a non-backlit LCD functions in this way. It really seems as if the backlight is responsible for loss of motion resolution.
I think the ones for sale are all still custom built, so you are effectively paying for the G-Sync conversion kit and the conversion work. That's reflected in the price as well. Displays built from the ground up for G-Sync are still on the way.
People above have pretty much nailed it. But for any sort of multiplayer/competitive gaming, it's certainly a 10. For a person like myself who has had limited experience with IPS panels (only had a Crossover 27Q for awhile), I still prefer it in *any* game. Just the experience of using a 120Hz panel literally feels better on my eyes. There was a test done by ASUS awhile back that confirms my anecdote on that aspect.
However, people who still play a majority of RPG/MMOish type games still seem to always prefer high res/IPS displays.
It's all about where your priorities and nitpicks are. For me, the motion blur on IPS panels is horrid and makes them unusable for games. For people like Durante, the color accuracy on TNs makes them unusable.
Unfortunately for now, there's no perfect solution. The Eizo Foris seems to be about as good as it gets, but it still lacks on the resolution front.
Yeah, you have to buy the monitor from any place and then the G-Sync kit directly from NVIDIA.
There seems to be a lot of love for that new LG ultra wide panel. You should check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0i7FjwteQE
You could probably offload your G-Sync equipped VG248QE for a good amount.
Eizo needs to build a high-res version of that one, with variable refresh. I'll pay whatever they ask.
I really want a single monitor for both gaming and work, and 1080 lines doesn't cut it.
It's 1440.
*edit*
I linked the wrong one!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnrxNfxRK_4
Resolution is 3440 x 1440.
paperspace
Member
I love my VG248QE. I barely use my IPS - it doesn't really matter how good it looks when it's unbearable to look actively at. Good for movies, but awful for games and work.
Dave_6
Member
I have a VG248QE. I know it doesn't completely eliminate tearing, especially on games that are locked at 60 fps. For example, I was playing Transformers: FOC last night and it tears like hell with the in-game V-sync off. I even tried using RadeonPro and that didn't help. Is this one of those cases where I pretty much have to use the in-game V-sync if I don't want tearing? Probably doesn't matter since it isn't competitive MP.
Games like Tomb Raider that have a 1080p 144hz setting don't have this issue.
Games like Tomb Raider that have a 1080p 144hz setting don't have this issue.
Hmm, is there a real review for that out there? The guy in the video talks a lot but says little I want to know
I mean, what's the input lag, static contrast ratio, backlight and color uniformity and color space coverage/correctness?
Are you talking about the G-sync version? Because only that can eliminate tearing without V-sync.
From my general group's anecdotes, and most people on the net I've talked to with 120Hz+ monitors, no one notices screen tearing anymore.
I know that it has to be there still, but perhaps due to the fast refresh, it's just not nearly as noticeable?
Per the LG, I haven't found much of anything else, but I haven't looked very hard either.
I know that it has to be there still, but perhaps due to the fast refresh, it's just not nearly as noticeable?
Per the LG, I haven't found much of anything else, but I haven't looked very hard either.
Dave_6
Member
Hmm, is there a real review for that out there? The guy in the video talks a lot but says little I want to know
I mean, what's the input lag, static contrast ratio, backlight and color uniformity and color space coverage/correctness?
Are you talking about the G-sync version? Because only that can eliminate tearing without V-sync.
It is G-sync capable but I'm not running an Nvidia card (yet). I'm using a 7970 right now.
I've been using the VG246QE with G-Sync for a couple months now. While G-Sync itself definitely lives up to the billing, the panel itself leaves a lot to be desired. The black level is poor, and since it's running at 6 bits the banding is terrible in dark scenes after calibration. If you can move beyond the image quality issues, it's definitely fantastic for gaming.
Hmm, is there a real review for that out there? The guy in the video talks a lot but says little I want to know
I mean, what's the input lag, static contrast ratio, backlight and color uniformity and color space coverage/correctness?
TFT Central might get a sample review for it eventually.
Beside the standard srgb space and the heavy antiglare coating. There isn't much detail info on or the panel itself.
michaelius
Banned
Hmm, is there a real review for that out there? The guy in the video talks a lot but says little I want to know
I mean, what's the input lag, static contrast ratio, backlight and color uniformity and color space coverage/correctness?
Uniformity and backlight bleed are typical IPS junk according to impressions on [H]
If anything runs below lightboost levels I tend to turn back vsync on, especially for 60fps. My main beef with amd cards in this area is that they don't have adaptive vsync or I have no clue how to enable it.
ss_lemonade
Member
What does 60hz flicker actually look like? I recently bought a w900a and that too has a warning that flickering can happen when using its impulse mode (which reduces blur). I haven't noticed any flickering yet but I do see that it works pretty much just as good as my vg248qe with lightboost. Probably even better because of superior color and picture quality (and I don't need to hold 100+ frames to get decent results).
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
So if I get a 120hz monitor but I can only get a game up to 60fps, could I still strobe it at 120hz and get the clarity benefit, just not as smooth motion?
The Eizo is hella tempting with the color and contrast, but over twice as much.... ugh... I wasn't planning on this monitor purchase (mine is dying) so I probably won't be doing that. Kinda want something that can go vertical, anyway. 16:10 would also be nice but I don't think any exist.
The Eizo is hella tempting with the color and contrast, but over twice as much.... ugh... I wasn't planning on this monitor purchase (mine is dying) so I probably won't be doing that. Kinda want something that can go vertical, anyway. 16:10 would also be nice but I don't think any exist.
I haven't had time to really sit down and test my Eizo under various circumstances, but I would guess that plan gives you the bad kind of clarity. Strobing allows you to see motion and things in motion more clearly, so if you go without Vsync, you'll see tearing more clearly. If you run with Vsync and are even slightly off from 60fps which results in motion judder, you'll see that more clearly too. In the best case where you have stable, framerate limited 60fps, you'll be shown the same frame exactly twice. That results in a sort of micro-scale stop motion effect that might feel weird. Additionally, the doubled strobe restores a lot of the image persistence that causes the blur to begin with, and prevents your eye from smoothly tracking the motion, so it won't be even close to the clarity of theoretical 60Hz strobing. I'm not sure if it could still have some benefit over not strobing.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
So if I can't go 120fps (which is maybe 80% of my games) I may as well just roll with an IPS and enjoy the color and contrast? I have zero need for competitive play. I was just hoping I could get rid of the blurring in games since I grew up with CRT and all. If the blurring is replaced with judder, I'm not sure it'd be better or just give me headaches.
Hmm, is there a real review for that out there? The guy in the video talks a lot but says little I want to know
I mean, what's the input lag, static contrast ratio, backlight and color uniformity and color space coverage/correctness?
Yeah I don't exactly like Linus. Says a lot, doesn't actually seem to understand a lot. Good if you want to see what's in a box though.
Prad.de has a review that is very complete. It's 2.5 euros. I was interested in the monitor so I'll give you a summary:
- good panel uniformity though mileage may vary.
- static contract is average
- colour accuracy is not good out of box but calibration works well
- LG overstates their sRGB colour space coverage but isn't really a serious concern.
- latency is barely acceptable (or acceptable, YMMV)
If you have more questions, feel free to ask but I recommend supporting their site because they do some of the best monitor reviews on the market.
maneil99
Member
There is no reason you would get judder on a 120hz monitor and not a 60hz monitor.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
http://www.amazon.com/BenQ-Gaming-Monitor-RL2455HM-24-Inch/dp/B007HSKSMI/ref=lp_8588814011_1_5?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1400121324&sr=1-5
Is this a good option for a cheap gamer?
Is this a good option for a cheap gamer?
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Well it would be there on a 60hz, but much harder to see. Firstly because vsyced 60fps is much easier for me to attain than 120fps, and secondly because it'd be hidden in the blur as compared to a monitor running 120hz. Even without judder, just the 60fps with doubled frames on a 120hz may be less enjoyable than single frames on a 60hz.
But then, these things can run 60hz anyway, right? Not too hard to switch modes? And turn lightboost off? I suppose I could just get one and enjoy the benefit on the games than can run that well and turn it off if it's problematic on other games, like MMOs that lose framerate just off connectivity issues.
Then again, I would be intentionally throwing away the opportunity to have delicious color and contrast at all times in order to get nice motion sometimes... Fuck, I wish I wasn't being rushed into this by my dying monitor.
Edit: This is my monitor, which I didn't realize I got 4 1/2 years ago. It claims to have 2ms GTG so if that's true, maybe an IPS would be like death to me, since this seems blurry as fuck. I guess I should just go with the Asus or something,
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Not at all. 60 at 120hz with lighboost / blur reduction looks a good deal better than 60hz on a regular LCD, and you see the benefits of higher framerates well below 120fps. Even 70-90fps unlocked looks far smoother than a vsynced 60fps. If it didn't I would lock it at 60, since there's no input lag penalty for that with Gsync. But I never do.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Okay so now I'm reading the ASUS has some fairly common lightbleeding issues (with proof pics), and I like the idea of an easy mode switch, low blue light, and some other things on the BenQs. However, I'm a bit confused about the 24" and 27" both saying they have 0.311mm pixel pitch. How can they have the same pixel pitch and native resolution but have a 3" difference? Even though it's $86 more I was considering it because of my bad eyes, but now I don't know what is going on with it.
maneil99
Member
Likely a mistake . I just ordered my XL2420Z
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Checked the BenQ site and it was a mistake in the Newegg listings.
However, I just ordered the 24" off B&H since they were going to get it to me fastest and I like their 2 year coverage plan and couldn't justify another $100 if I couldn't be sure how well it'd help me to read shit. I already use an extension to boost most websites 150% so the 3" increase seemed nominal in comparison.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
This thread encouraged me to order the ASUS VG248QE.
It's coming in next week. I've been just using a 40in Samsung HDtv hooked up to my PC, cool for gaming big screen, but since I'm starting my new support job next week it's a bit much to work on 40 hours a week.
This gave me the perfect excuse to get a gaming and multi-monitor set-up and the ASUS is going to be the gaming one.
I'm excited! ^_^
It's coming in next week. I've been just using a 40in Samsung HDtv hooked up to my PC, cool for gaming big screen, but since I'm starting my new support job next week it's a bit much to work on 40 hours a week.
This gave me the perfect excuse to get a gaming and multi-monitor set-up and the ASUS is going to be the gaming one.
I'm excited! ^_^