Calisto Glory
Banned
And i thought it was the pedophilic mentailty
No it's about how a country that made amazing games like Alien Soldier and Contra Hard Corps hasn't been making games as good as they used to.The Antitype said:Wait... the entire point of this article is Western people and Japanese people like different things?
That's it?
Those are funny examples because Japan still makes hardcore arcadey action games like those... I'll just say... Bayonetta, Vanquish, and No More Heroes 2 as random examples. That type of game isn't where Japan is considered to be lacking today.kokujin said:No it's about how a country that made amazing games like Alien Soldier and Contra Hard Corps hasn't been making games as good as they used to.
odd_morsel said:Shouldn't even dignify this kind of mindless drivel with reason or intellect. The narrow mindedness some exhibit is frankly astounding.
And that people use moe as a justification for flagging off the Japanese gaming industry is just silly. Some years ago, everyone in America was jerking off to naked renders of Lara Croft as Tomb Raider sold millions on the back (bust) if the west's polygonal Aphrodite. And now we have Americans claiming that moe is the downfall of Japan. Something in that logic is flawed.
I've also never, ever heard "洋ゲークソゲー". All the Japanese nerds I know like most Western games. Except Fable. They hate that one.
mujun said:You have to admit that they take the cute girls with big eyes things a little too far, though. I think it's pretty clear that that kind of aesthetic narrows the potential customer base of a game.
odd_morsel said:Who is "they?"
I wonder which it is that people disapprove of more - the existence of games involving cultural elements they don't understand, or the fans of those games.
mujun said:They is the people who make the games I was referring to.
There are quite a few Japanese games that I would take more interest in if they toned down the "anime".
BTW I am pretty sure that I understand the cultural elements I am talking about well.
kokujin said:No it's about how a country that made amazing games like Alien Soldier and Contra Hard Corps hasn't been making games as good as they used to.
odd_morsel said:I've also never, ever heard "洋ゲークソゲー". All the Japanese nerds I know like most Western games. Except Fable. They hate that one.
Hey, I actually think this is also a legitimate complaint that I've had against a lot of Western games myself. And there's a lot of truth in it. I went into the Gamestop with my mom (who knows nothing of games) while we were at the mall to reserve Zelda and she looked around and asked why everything was so violent and about killing. It's hard to deny that it paints a kind of unappealing picture of the hobby.FINALFANTASYDOG said:It's interesting seeing it the other way: Japanese blogs all the time, taking up games like DNF / Postal 2 about how VIOLENT America is and how everybody there just wants to kill and torture.
Castor Krieg said:But you are not the target audience for anime games, Japanese gamers are, and they like it.
Megidolaon said:mujun is right. call it moe or whatever, but the art styles and characters in many J games (especially RPGs) have that look to them which makes them really off putting to many people, even fans of the genre (like myself). Overstylized, disgustingly cute/oversexualized, ridiculously implausible outfits or hair. There's always some underage pigtailed freak with a giant staff, a girl with a freakishly high voice and a bipolar personality, a meek helpless damsel girl, a cat girl, a giant tittied girl. I even like anime style, but only when it's toned down a few notches.
Granted there's people that will like that, but it wouldn't hurt to tone down the art style a bit to widen the appeal, would it? Think Persona or FFXII or Zelda.
I don't think Lara Croft is any better, though.
cosmicblizzard said:Persona is pretty damn anime. Nanako is definitely moe.
Castor Krieg said:But Persona mixes anime with the whole demon/end of the world stuff.
Eh, Nanako just looks and acts like a normal little girl to me. If that's moe, then maybe I don't quite get the whole moe thing. :/cosmicblizzard said:Persona is pretty damn anime. Nanako is definitely moe.
cosmicblizzard said:Persona is pretty damn anime. Nanako is definitely moe.
She's not sexy, but clearly an object of affection. And moe does not imply sexy.odd_morsel said:Wtf? Nanako is "moe?" Now I've heard everything. Nanako is in no way presented as a character that is sexy or an object of affection in any way.
odd_morsel said:Wtf? Nanako is "moe?" Now I've heard everything. Nanako is in no way presented as a character that is sexy or an object of affection in any way.
Persona is "anime" but it's also intelligently written and has relate-able characters. There's a big difference between that and the stuff that gets made for the moe audience. The animation industry in Japan is too vast to claim or assume that any anime from Japan is nailed on to be of a particular style.
I don't think you know what "moe" means..Wtf? Nanako is "moe?" Now I've heard everything. Nanako is in no way presented as a character that is sexy or an object of affection in any way.
Moe is the ability of a character to instill in the audience an irrational desire to adore them, hug them, protect them, comfort them, help them with whatever they need/want, etcodd_morsel said:Wtf? Nanako is "moe?" Now I've heard everything. Nanako is in no way presented as a character that is sexy or an object of affection in any way.
Persona is "anime" but it's also intelligently written and has relate-able characters. There's a big difference between that and the stuff that gets made for the moe audience. The animation industry in Japan is too vast to claim or assume that any anime from Japan is nailed on to be of a particular style.
http://i.imgur.com/ukomP.jpg
^ Moe ^
http://i.imgur.com/1gkwV.jpg
^ A little girl
Solune said:Moe is the ability of a character to instill in the audience an irrational desire to adore them, hug them, protect them, comfort them, help them with whatever they need/want, etc
You seem to have misinterpreted the meaning of "moh-ay". One does not have to be sexualized nor dress in a certain manner to be considered "moh-ay". These characters are specifically designed to appeal to certain people, that's what makes them "moh-ay".
cosmicblizzard said:So? That isn't exactly a rare premise in anime.
Castor Krieg said:Anime nowadays is mostly about school/harem/moe/clumsy mail protagonist. Demons/ghosts are just a backgrouond, wheras in Persona they play a major role.
That's a weird and rather desperate analogy. Nice try.FINALFANTASYDOG said:The only people who take loveplusplus are forefingers who want OH WACKY JAPAN
Love Plus Plus is the Japanese internet version of Rocky Horror Picture Show.
The fans know how extremely ridiculous the concept of the game is. They aren't bloody crazy; when they go and buy a cake for a digital girl on their ds and share it with fellow boyfriends on the internet they are doing it for the same reasons people throw toiler paper at the screen in Rocky Horror.
rvy said:
Somewhere along the way, something went very wrong.
Not that many, actually.odd_morsel said:School animes are huge, yes. Now turn on Cartoon Network and tell me what % of the American cartoons feature student protagonists.
FieryBalrog said:Not that many, actually.
odd_morsel said:Surely you can't be serious? Those animes exist, but "mostly" is far, far too broad of a term to be used here. The biggest animes that I am aware of are One Piece, Pokemon, Evangelion, and seasonal shows that get large followings like Natsume no Yuuchou.
This is now a Golgo 13 thread.revolverjgw said:Here's how I like my anime. Get those freakish huge eyes and catlike faces outta here
Castor Krieg said:Evangelion? When was that piece-of-senseless-crap released? You are giving me 3 titles (I agree, One Piece and Pokemon are huge) against dozens of new anime released each year. K-ON is not moe? Infinite Stratos is not moe/clumsy guy? Seikon No Qwaser is not moe? Gosick is not moe? Freezing is not huge breast grils dropping clothes every episode? Same with Queen's Blade? How about Haruhi? Softenni?
Cartoon Network has always aimed a surprising amount of content at adults, and in the Western stuff it runs, there is very little of the Japanese style moe/loli/student hero tropes in things like The Problem Solverz, Venture Bros., Robot Chicken, the new ThunderCats, etc.odd_morsel said:When I was a kid, the cartoons that were big on Nickelodeon nearly all had student protagonists. Except Rugrats. Cute little babies who I want to hug and comfort and buy presents for. Oh shit... must be moe!
odd_morsel said:LOL, almost all of those you listed are extremely, extremely niche. K-On is moe, I guess. It's also watched/liked by girls.
Castor Krieg said:Evangelion? When was that piece-of-senseless-crap released? You are giving me 3 titles (I agree, One Piece and Pokemon are huge) against dozens of new anime released each year. K-ON is not moe? Infinite Stratos is not moe/clumsy guy? Seikon No Qwaser is not moe? Gosick is not moe? Freezing is not huge breast grils dropping clothes every episode? Same with Queen's Blade? How about Haruhi? Softenni?
Castor Krieg said:Oh God. Check TV once in a while. This is what airs on TV, you cannot fill the whole week with One Piece and Pokemon.
First, moe by itself does not designate any type of characteristics to a character. It is what a person finds attractive that they begin to classify something as moe. If you find glasses attractive, you like them but you're not actively seeking that trait on somebody. But if you absolutely adore them on a potential romantic interest aka physical attraction, that can be classified as moe.odd_morsel said:Interesting that doing any sort of google search for combinations of "moe" and "anime" or games, gives you a slew of sexualized images as results, yet you swear there is no relation to physical attraction.
Nanako is inherently part of the "imouto" / younger sister archetype. She is specifically designed to target players that have some attachment or affinity with these types of characters. You want to be the big brother or you want to be protective of her, when a player reaches that type of level that's moe. Of course I believe you're more than intelligent enough to know that being moe does not necessarily mean sexual attraction is involved at all.I agree that they're designed to appeal to a particular audience. My point is that Nanako simply isn't one of those characters. Just thinking some little girl is cute and loveable isn't at all a trait unique to anime, and especially not this sub-genre of anime. Images of cute, adorable little kids and creatures are all over Japan, and the world, really. You can't just claim that every young, cute character in a Japanese animation is "moe," because you want to comfort them, help them with whatever they want, just like you would your cute little sister in real life.
It's often used in this context because most people in general have no idea what moe means. Like you said, you can enter moe games or anime in google and sexualized images pop up. Instead of looking up some sort of intelligent definition, people opt to be presumptuous and give a derogatory definition to a word that doesn't have that meaning to begin with."Moe" is often used as a pejorative - as justification to be repulsed by a specific type of show - I am aware of this because I am generally disgusted by fans of "moe" anime and manga. Nanako simply isn't one example of this.
What are you talking about? Of course you can. K-On aired after midnight in Japan.Castor Krieg said:Oh God. Check TV once in a while. This is what airs on TV, you cannot fill the whole week with One Piece and Pokemon.
These games were never aimed at you. These games were aimed at the same people who bought them last generation. Ar Tonelico, Disgaea, the Atelier series; all of these games aren't new titles signifying some shift in the Japanese market. Increased localization of these games, larger word-of-mouth due to gaming forums like this, and a possibly shrinking amount of regular games being produced (I'm not even sure of this) make them more prominent, but they're the same games being made for the same people.mujun said:They is the people who make the games I was referring to.
There are quite a few Japanese games that I would take more interest in if they toned down the "anime".
BTW I am pretty sure that I understand the cultural elements I am talking about well.
...rvy said:This is now a Golgo 13 thread.