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1up Xbox/Xbox 360 HD comparison feature is up.
- Thread starter Andy787
- Start date
cybamerc said:
It's called a difference of opinion. AA is a good thing when used sparingly. By definition you removing the sharp edge by blending two colors together this is going to result in detail loss. Too much AA is like smearing vasoline on your screen. The right amount looks great.
Well that was a childish waste of my time. Looks like 1UP.com has an axe to grind with Peter Moore because he said some mean things about them. Those pictures really paint a false impression. Looking at those pictures I barely see any difference between King Kong on Xbox 360 and Xbox, yet on the system itself as well as in any videos and even with pictures from most other websites you can see a clear difference in the visual quality. Also comparing high end PC games to their Xbox 360 ports and putting a choice that it looks the same, but it's not next-gen doesn't make any sense to me at all. If it "only" looks the same or only slightly better than a high end PC game then it is next gen because no past gen game systems could do that. And of course let's not bother to pair Peter Moore's statements with any Xbox 360 games that are not ports to maximize how foolish he looks.
And don't get me wrong, Peter Moore's statements were only slightly less ridiculous than Ken Kutaragi claiming that the PS2 would be like jacking into the Matrix, it's just the timing to suddenly start attacking Peter Moore for crazy E3 claims seems just a little suspect. Did we really have to wait and see to find out that playing Xbox 360 was not actually like having a lucid dream? Nope, but let's be real Peter Moore insulted some Ziff Davis employees and now the press has to do it's job, ie. destroy anyone's reputation that they don't like. Congratulations on your hit piece. Job well yellow journalism done!
And don't get me wrong, Peter Moore's statements were only slightly less ridiculous than Ken Kutaragi claiming that the PS2 would be like jacking into the Matrix, it's just the timing to suddenly start attacking Peter Moore for crazy E3 claims seems just a little suspect. Did we really have to wait and see to find out that playing Xbox 360 was not actually like having a lucid dream? Nope, but let's be real Peter Moore insulted some Ziff Davis employees and now the press has to do it's job, ie. destroy anyone's reputation that they don't like. Congratulations on your hit piece. Job well yellow journalism done!
shantyman said:
Talking more about the gameplay animations themselves. Tons of new tackling animations, WR animations, running back animations that flesh out the game and give it a more cohesive feel over the current gen version. However, the control is too unresponsive so it doesn't take advantage of all the extras put in.
Tiburon has already talked about an advanced physics system which isn't in 06 which will be in 07. I'm not too mad about Madden 06 even though I feel the game is underwhelming. I've always felt Madden 06 360 is just going to be an appetizer for next gen Madden whereas Madden 07 next gen starts the main course.
master_shake_05
Banned
Nice. Takin' it to the man, guys!1Up said:
bitterazngurl
Member
---- said:
actually, we planned this feature long before this week's 1up show, and it wasn't a reflection or a response to what peter moore said. i'm sorry i bursted your conspiracy theory bubble. but seriously, 1 <3 using floating heads.
1up has become one of the best gaming sites on the net (sans GAF of course), but this feature is really not that good. The 360 games look a lot better than 1up's hacked up versions.
That being said, anyone buying a NextGen console for the graphics is going to be dissapointed (I'm looking at you dark10x). Developers aren't superhuman. They are limited by modelers and artists. Artists can only do so much. I'm not totally up on the biz, but I think we've reached a point where artists aren't limited by the hardware anymore. They are limited by their own talents. Plus, devs still have to make a game within a given time frame. It's not like they can take 10 years to get every texture exactly perfect.
The biggest advances this gen will be technical... not graphical. I mean you'll see a lot done with mapping, lighting, and particles. Things that add ambience and realism to a game. I don't see there being any improvement in textures other than the increased rez of HD. Improved textures are what makes a graphic whore go ooh and ahh.
This is why I'm excited for the new consoles.
From a 1up editor...
That being said, anyone buying a NextGen console for the graphics is going to be dissapointed (I'm looking at you dark10x). Developers aren't superhuman. They are limited by modelers and artists. Artists can only do so much. I'm not totally up on the biz, but I think we've reached a point where artists aren't limited by the hardware anymore. They are limited by their own talents. Plus, devs still have to make a game within a given time frame. It's not like they can take 10 years to get every texture exactly perfect.
The biggest advances this gen will be technical... not graphical. I mean you'll see a lot done with mapping, lighting, and particles. Things that add ambience and realism to a game. I don't see there being any improvement in textures other than the increased rez of HD. Improved textures are what makes a graphic whore go ooh and ahh.
This is why I'm excited for the new consoles.
From a 1up editor...
Che's Blog said:
I think there will be plenty of graphical upgrades next gen. You are seeing them already with Gears of War and MGS4. The problem is that next gen isn't 100 percent focus for all developers at the moment. Once it is, you'll see some big leaps. Never judge a console directly off its launch. Otherwise you would have thought the PS2 is less powerful than the DC. Look where the PS2 has gone from Fantavision to MGS3. Even Xbox and GC had great leaps from their launches in 2001.
See, if they REALLY had reached the point where the hardware was simply TOO powerful...I would have expected GREAT FRAMERATES. Ya know? Can't create models detailed enough to feed the beast? Bump it all up to 60 fps. If they are having difficulty reaching 60 fps, they are still limited by the hardware. With enough surplus power, even a poor programming team should be able to reach such a framerate. These devs also often built more complex models for older games and would then scale them down in order to allow them to be workable on real hardware.
I don't think you're completely off base, however. The actual quality of the models (not their complexity, but their actual quality) and their animation is going to be severely limited by talent. The best animation and presentation will only come from top developers...but that doesn't excuse shit framerates. Sub-30 fps with tearing isn't going to cut it.
If all launch 360 games were 60 fps, I would be much more satisfied.
dvdvideo said:
It's been better than your contribution to this thread...honestly, running in HD res isn't going to make an otherwise current-gen looking game suddenly look next-gen (Tony Hawk and Gun say hi!)...
You know, I don't even see why people are getting defensive about the article, as it points out what I think is pretty obvious - about half of the launch lineup is multiplatform ports that you can experience elsewhere, and clearly those aren't going to be the games that are pushing the hardware the hardest. If you have an X360 as well as the current gen consoles, I think it's good to know which of the ports are only marginally enhanced so you can save the $10+ premium you'd pay for the X360 version.
Explain.rastex said:
I wasn't really thinking about it in a realistic way, I must admit. The thought of very poorly programmed PC games had crossed my mind. Something like Trespasser, for example, now runs at 60 fps on today's machines...but the engine is total garbage. Garbage + overheard = performance - but that's a pretty lengthy period of time
Not really comparable to consoles, I suppose.
dark10x said:
Especially with highly refined and customized machines like the next gen ones. A poor programming team most likely won't be able to use even rudimentary multithreading, which brings the performance of the 360 to a half, and for the PS3 even less. Then you have the issue of managing your data dependencies for efficient execution in an inorder manner, and if they can't handle multithreading there's no way they can do low level optimization like this.
Would it ever get to that level? Well probably but that studio won't be making another game after that. People talk about diminishing returns, and I do agree, but I also think the jump between launch titles and 3rd generation titles and beyond as well as poor teams and talented teams will be bigger than any console gen we've seen in a long time.
dvdvideo said:
Nice. I honestly haven't been following this thread since the first page as it quickly devolved into a bunch of bullshit minutia I can't be bothered to worry about. Would it have been nice to compare the two games with exact poses with frame buffer dumps in their native resolution? Yes, but frankly, the gains aren't worth the huge pain in the ass that would have been to pull off. I think in the end you see the point we're trying to make -- i.e., many developers took a right on Easy St. to be a part of the Xbox 360 launch line-up. You can nitpick the feature all you want, junior, but don't blame us if you can't see the bigger picture.
This is, of course, exactly right. The Tony Hawk game especially bothers me, as they literally removed 720p support from the XBOX version (where every previous THPS on XBOX supported that resolution).
You're right, of course, but I was kinda thinking in extremes...
cyberheater
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chespace said:
Yes, but considering the article is a comparison of 360 hi def games, the fact that you can't be arsed to go thru the process of actually getting proper frame buffer dumps to prove your "point" then you shouldn't have bothered.
Hardly a 'fair' article.
chespace said:
I completely agree. The feature on 1Up really showed the bigger picture, that many of the launch games are quick fixes and cash-ins.
But on the other hand, having a poll asking if it looks "next-gen" enough is silly, considering that most of the extra detail isn't viewable when seeing the game in lower resolutions.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Cyber sums it up nicely, it's hardly nitpicking. Joe average will read your article and decide that the 360 isn't worth buying based on a bunch of poor screen grabs that are posing as hdtv.
In regards to the so called bullshit, basically the bottom line is if people disagree with what you have done it gets thrown out in the pile along with objectivity. Nice work.
Yes some developers easily could have done better, EA especially, but your article shows much less of a difference than there really is when actually playing the game on an hd set.
I can see the big picture just fine, it's you who is missing it completely.
In regards to the so called bullshit, basically the bottom line is if people disagree with what you have done it gets thrown out in the pile along with objectivity. Nice work.
Yes some developers easily could have done better, EA especially, but your article shows much less of a difference than there really is when actually playing the game on an hd set.
I can see the big picture just fine, it's you who is missing it completely.