Spring-Loaded
Member
For what it's worth, I welcome opinions from everyone in this thread, and ask that people post the extent of their experience with the game (time, medals gotten, etc.).
I'll start out by saying I completely understand the problems people have these controls, while learning them, using them after getting used to them, just on a conceptual level, and from an accessibility perspective. This game currently has no true options for controls (not even sensitivity sliders or button remapping) and it would've only been a better experience for everyone overall if there were more options.
That said, to anyone who's a strong fan of Star Fox and/or Star Fox 64: you owe it to yourself to try this game. I won't recommend that anyone buy this game without trying it first, but it's absolutely worth seeing whether you'll like it if you've been pining for another SF game of this ilk as I have — I have some qualms with the game and the decisions and circumstances surrounding it, but the meat of the game and its controls are probably the strongest aspects. I'm truly glad I played it, and have pretty thoroughly enjoyed most of it as a traditional Star Fox/64-type game, something I couldn't say for the past few SF titles.
Before release
I was disappointed learning about the strange controls and found the "aim in a different direction from where the ship is flying," off-putting as it meant gyro aiming would be unavoidable, something I'd never used comfortably in a game. I was also put off by the visuals, speed, amount of enemies and various comments from Miyamoto about the game's features (no bombs [which suggested a lack of concern for high scores and options], no plans for multiplayer, only planned for a short turn around, no plans for branching paths, etc.). Just a bunch of things Pretty down on the game, even up to release.
Post release
All of this is after playing for 20+ hours, getting all medals and playing a few hours with friends/family.
Arwing:
The Arwing controls clicked for me to my surprise, and much quicker than I expected. I did two runs through the training for the Arwing. I got used to glancing between the two screens and while I wasn't going to be comfortable doing any involved steering while shooting in other directions, I could wrp my head around moving in a general direction while shooting in another, or doing complex maneuvering, then focusing on shooting. There's nothing in the game that outright demands simultaneous complex movement and complex aiming, but it would theoretically be doable.
Barrel-rolls on the right stick seemingly don't affect directional movement that much, so the problems brought on by having "double tap joystick," as an input are mitigated because it usually doesn't matter which way you're rolling (that that does affect the Walker). These can also be done by quickly hitting left-to-right or vice versa, and joystick inputs like that tend to be wonky for a lot of reasons (hard to reliably move a joystick directly back-to-forward without it registering as diagonal-back-to-foward or something else, and double tapping non-digital inputs leaves too much room for the game misreading them). All that said, they work okay, though I'd rather have the left shoulder button be a "hold, then move left/right to roll," unput — that is currently only used for canceling the lock-on, something I don't find much use for since I don't go for super-high scores.
Loop-de-loops and u-turns being on the sticks actually is good in my eyes as I like not having to move my thumbs/fingers away from their default positions — I seem to accidentally perform loops/u-turns more now than when I first started playing the game, for some reason. It can be easy to do them on accident (breaking while tilting upward has close inputs to the u-turn, same with boosting while tilting up) and it'd just be better to have an option to turn off stick maneuvers altogether (those can be done with face buttons). Still, I appreciate that they're doable in that way, and I never have a problem performing them, it's just that they sometimes happen when I don't want them to — not sure what could be done to mitigate that problem. PvE isn't quite so demanding that the accessibility advantage by not needing to move one's right thumb to the face buttons is really needed, so it's not a big deal. If there were multiplayer, that would be a different story.
Arwing on-rails:
Arwing on-rails is great in that it's very close to Star Fox 64's gameplay with the added ability to aim within a half-sphere field ahead of the ship. I came to genuinely like using cockpit view, (in part because it doesn't actually flip all the way around when barrel-rolling like it did in 64. That view no longer being locked to the ship's orientation means it isn't as restrictive and becomes useful in myriad situations, rather than a novelty that puts the player at serious disadvantages. It's still a bit occasionally hard for me to get a feel for the ship's presence in that view and I find myself clipping scenery that I would more easily avoid in 3rd-person view, especially when tilting the ship on its side to pass through tight spaces. Still, the cockpit view is good for most situations, and I've played through every (non Gyrowing) level entirely through the cockpit view.
The vehicle/3rd-person view in on-rails missions is great too overall, classic SF 64, but the way the reticule works can make it seem really off — the cockpit view reticule is always dead-on of course, but since the 3rd-person reticule shows the angle of the cockpit view, that can sometimes be almost useless for far away targets from the 3rd-person camera perspective, even with the gyro aim centered and held stationary. I've seen a few ideas as to how that could be mitigated, and I believe the best way would be to focus on making the 3rd-person view's reticule give a better representation of where shots will land, first and foremost, as opposed to showing the angle/direction the cockpit view is facing, since the latter isn't useful when using the 3rd-person view. Switching between views is ideal, but I still see no inherent good in having the cursor be as off as it is in the vehicle view — it doesn't need to somehow show the extreme side-views possible using the cockpit view (e.g. all the way to the left/right, which would be impossible), but it should be better than it is.
Arwing all-range mode:
While the on-rails gameplay gyro aiming is helpful and neat at times, it's when in all-range mode that the controls justify their existence. The all-range dogfights in 64 and even in Assault and Command felt pretty rote and simplistic against NPCs, and other people alike, in that players could only u-turn, loop, or turn sharply, and you could only boost for a short time and do either of those special maneuvers with a predictable cool-down.
Zero's gyro aim allows for enemies to be more mobile than before, and I really came to like being able to turn and break sharply, then shoot an enemy chasing behind me without needing to resort to a loop-de-loop. Being able to aim more accurately and leading shots is much more exciting, and those dogfights can be made to be more demanding than before with more enemies and more aggressive opponents (i.e. Star Wolf's special attacks in some scenarios). There's enough boost in the boost meter to do two loops or u-turns back-to-back, and breaking/boosting can be done for much longer. This is the main reason I lament there being no multiplayer, because for the first time the Arwing vs. Arwing gameplay (not including the Star Fox: Assault ship exiting/switching shenanigans, which was fantastic) could be genuinely engaging by being less predictable and stilted. Having a high degree of control (or at least, a much higher degree of control than in previous SF games) would make for a fun multiplayer. the 3rd-person view can let you keep track of the ship/boss you're locked onto and once I got used to it, I could make good use of it by seeing where an enemy started flying while I was doing a loop or u-turn, then quickly aiming the cockpit view at their location while turn toward them. Before I would've just lost track of them for a bit, and in a couple fights in Zero, this is really useful.
Weak points on bosses can actually be challenging to hit now that the player can have more control over aiming. I appreciate enemies with hard-to-reach weak spots (like the spider walkers top/bottom spots) and it's a welcome change of pace (in that you're still shooting things and maneuvering a fun-to-use ship) to have to do bombing runs, passing over them, looking down and landing shots.
Doing loops and u-turns shouldn't lock the players view during their duration though — I want to be able to still aim around while looping, and so forth. It's nice that it's a way to reset the view, but I can do that at any time already with the left joystick, which is always going to be at my disposal.
Walker
Only a few instances where the Walker on-rails used can happen actually, but it's fine there.
Most of the time, it's all-range mode for it. I like using it when locked onto something — the ship will adjust to face what you lock-onto, and you can then strafe around it while aiming with the gyro. You can hold the lock-on button to strafe when not targeting an enemy, though I didn't use that too much, and only found it useful to mitigate problems while moving in tight spaces.
I found the Walker's movement fiddly, and still do. Having turning left/right be on both joysticks (can use both to turn quicker) has led to me barrel-rolling when I didn't want to, and since rolling in Walker form is a side-flip, that can be a problem when trying to maneuver onto small platforms or enemies (which is needed to hack a few control panels in the game). The "left-to-right," right joystick input has messed me up too many times since that will do a flip, even though I'm just looking from one direction to another quickly.
It's a neat addition to the arsenal, but I don't find the walker much fun in tight spaces, one of the only few places where it's useful over the Arwing. It's faster on land than the Landmaster, but not fast enough to be faster than the Arwing low above the ground. It isn't like controlling a traditional on-foot character since it seeks to emulate controlling a ship, but it's too fast and too fiddly for me to accomplish that feeling (something I find the Landmaster to do very well). I'd have preferred this to essentially control like Vanquish, and move extremely fast on land, yet provide functional dodging and snappier aiming to allow dancing around enemies. If this ever comes back, that's what I'd hope for — it should feel liberating and exhilarating when using it.
Gyrowing:
My biggest criticism of the Gyrowing is how it's used. I don't especially like using the ship itself, but it's functional. There are some quality-of-life improvements it could use, namely being able to move while reeling in the Direct-i bot and not being locked in place and just faster movement. That said, it's fine.
The level it gets all to itself is meant to be a stealth mission, but it's mostly just open space that you drift through — really dull and uneventful, and isn't even demanding as a stealth op. Had where the level lacked in high-speed action, it made up for it in being a tense stealth situation that demanded precise movement and timing, it would've been more engaging. As it is, even when trying to avoid spotlights, it's just slow and empty. This is another area I think multiplayer would allow aspects of the game to shine more — a mode where other players have to cover a Gyrowing user while they do a bombing run or something would be inherently more exciting, especially if it allowed two-player-one-ship co-op.
Was a better experience in the level it makes a brief appearance since that scenario had a soft time limit.
Landmaster
Has virtually nothing I dislike. Just feels awesome to use and has better aiming than its 64 counterpart, yet still feels like steering a heavy, cool tank thing where you have to manage strafing while firing missiles, and so forth. The addition of three lock-on missiles at a time is great and a welcome advantage over other ships. Its levels make good use of what it offers — the spider boss makes evident how nice it is to be able to precision-aim through the cockpit while doing the hover/strafe to dodge its legs/laser fire. Then, when it tries to land on you, you have to switch to the Gravmaster (flying Landmaster, essentially) to outrun it. Just a high degree of control, and a situation that demands some mastery of those controls. Makes each portion of the Landmaster sequences engaging.That the Landmaster is slower than the Arwing helps with selling the use of gyro aiming too — while one could argue classic "locked to ship's nose direction," aiming in the Arwing could be just as fast as gyro aiming (aside from really far up/down/to the sides), in the Landmaster, there was no way to aim this well in 64.
Co-op:
I posted about my experiences playing co-op with my dad in another thread; here's an excerpt pertaining directly to the controls:
That about sums up my experience with the controls themselves. I would've preferred a much better showcase for the Gyrowing, or to just not have it featured tbh, and the Walker should be more swift and more like Vanquish, in short. The Arwing and Landmaster could've carried this game entirely, and with a few tweaks to the controls, they would be pretty perfect for what they are.
There still needs to be more options (or options, full stop), maybe have a demo stage for people on the fence, and a better way of teaching players how to use them (not that the training missions are bad, they could just be better). A refinement of what Zero has done could make for a truly great sequel, but that's really up in the air because of the skimpy content and negative feedback the game has gotten because of them. Multiplayer would be the best way of validating the higher degree of control, and would make evident how functional they are to everyone just from seeing others use them well. We'll see.
I'll start out by saying I completely understand the problems people have these controls, while learning them, using them after getting used to them, just on a conceptual level, and from an accessibility perspective. This game currently has no true options for controls (not even sensitivity sliders or button remapping) and it would've only been a better experience for everyone overall if there were more options.
That said, to anyone who's a strong fan of Star Fox and/or Star Fox 64: you owe it to yourself to try this game. I won't recommend that anyone buy this game without trying it first, but it's absolutely worth seeing whether you'll like it if you've been pining for another SF game of this ilk as I have — I have some qualms with the game and the decisions and circumstances surrounding it, but the meat of the game and its controls are probably the strongest aspects. I'm truly glad I played it, and have pretty thoroughly enjoyed most of it as a traditional Star Fox/64-type game, something I couldn't say for the past few SF titles.
Before release
I was disappointed learning about the strange controls and found the "aim in a different direction from where the ship is flying," off-putting as it meant gyro aiming would be unavoidable, something I'd never used comfortably in a game. I was also put off by the visuals, speed, amount of enemies and various comments from Miyamoto about the game's features (no bombs [which suggested a lack of concern for high scores and options], no plans for multiplayer, only planned for a short turn around, no plans for branching paths, etc.). Just a bunch of things Pretty down on the game, even up to release.
Post release
All of this is after playing for 20+ hours, getting all medals and playing a few hours with friends/family.
Arwing:
The Arwing controls clicked for me to my surprise, and much quicker than I expected. I did two runs through the training for the Arwing. I got used to glancing between the two screens and while I wasn't going to be comfortable doing any involved steering while shooting in other directions, I could wrp my head around moving in a general direction while shooting in another, or doing complex maneuvering, then focusing on shooting. There's nothing in the game that outright demands simultaneous complex movement and complex aiming, but it would theoretically be doable.
Barrel-rolls on the right stick seemingly don't affect directional movement that much, so the problems brought on by having "double tap joystick," as an input are mitigated because it usually doesn't matter which way you're rolling (that that does affect the Walker). These can also be done by quickly hitting left-to-right or vice versa, and joystick inputs like that tend to be wonky for a lot of reasons (hard to reliably move a joystick directly back-to-forward without it registering as diagonal-back-to-foward or something else, and double tapping non-digital inputs leaves too much room for the game misreading them). All that said, they work okay, though I'd rather have the left shoulder button be a "hold, then move left/right to roll," unput — that is currently only used for canceling the lock-on, something I don't find much use for since I don't go for super-high scores.
Loop-de-loops and u-turns being on the sticks actually is good in my eyes as I like not having to move my thumbs/fingers away from their default positions — I seem to accidentally perform loops/u-turns more now than when I first started playing the game, for some reason. It can be easy to do them on accident (breaking while tilting upward has close inputs to the u-turn, same with boosting while tilting up) and it'd just be better to have an option to turn off stick maneuvers altogether (those can be done with face buttons). Still, I appreciate that they're doable in that way, and I never have a problem performing them, it's just that they sometimes happen when I don't want them to — not sure what could be done to mitigate that problem. PvE isn't quite so demanding that the accessibility advantage by not needing to move one's right thumb to the face buttons is really needed, so it's not a big deal. If there were multiplayer, that would be a different story.
Arwing on-rails:
Arwing on-rails is great in that it's very close to Star Fox 64's gameplay with the added ability to aim within a half-sphere field ahead of the ship. I came to genuinely like using cockpit view, (in part because it doesn't actually flip all the way around when barrel-rolling like it did in 64. That view no longer being locked to the ship's orientation means it isn't as restrictive and becomes useful in myriad situations, rather than a novelty that puts the player at serious disadvantages. It's still a bit occasionally hard for me to get a feel for the ship's presence in that view and I find myself clipping scenery that I would more easily avoid in 3rd-person view, especially when tilting the ship on its side to pass through tight spaces. Still, the cockpit view is good for most situations, and I've played through every (non Gyrowing) level entirely through the cockpit view.
The vehicle/3rd-person view in on-rails missions is great too overall, classic SF 64, but the way the reticule works can make it seem really off — the cockpit view reticule is always dead-on of course, but since the 3rd-person reticule shows the angle of the cockpit view, that can sometimes be almost useless for far away targets from the 3rd-person camera perspective, even with the gyro aim centered and held stationary. I've seen a few ideas as to how that could be mitigated, and I believe the best way would be to focus on making the 3rd-person view's reticule give a better representation of where shots will land, first and foremost, as opposed to showing the angle/direction the cockpit view is facing, since the latter isn't useful when using the 3rd-person view. Switching between views is ideal, but I still see no inherent good in having the cursor be as off as it is in the vehicle view — it doesn't need to somehow show the extreme side-views possible using the cockpit view (e.g. all the way to the left/right, which would be impossible), but it should be better than it is.
Arwing all-range mode:
While the on-rails gameplay gyro aiming is helpful and neat at times, it's when in all-range mode that the controls justify their existence. The all-range dogfights in 64 and even in Assault and Command felt pretty rote and simplistic against NPCs, and other people alike, in that players could only u-turn, loop, or turn sharply, and you could only boost for a short time and do either of those special maneuvers with a predictable cool-down.
Zero's gyro aim allows for enemies to be more mobile than before, and I really came to like being able to turn and break sharply, then shoot an enemy chasing behind me without needing to resort to a loop-de-loop. Being able to aim more accurately and leading shots is much more exciting, and those dogfights can be made to be more demanding than before with more enemies and more aggressive opponents (i.e. Star Wolf's special attacks in some scenarios). There's enough boost in the boost meter to do two loops or u-turns back-to-back, and breaking/boosting can be done for much longer. This is the main reason I lament there being no multiplayer, because for the first time the Arwing vs. Arwing gameplay (not including the Star Fox: Assault ship exiting/switching shenanigans, which was fantastic) could be genuinely engaging by being less predictable and stilted. Having a high degree of control (or at least, a much higher degree of control than in previous SF games) would make for a fun multiplayer. the 3rd-person view can let you keep track of the ship/boss you're locked onto and once I got used to it, I could make good use of it by seeing where an enemy started flying while I was doing a loop or u-turn, then quickly aiming the cockpit view at their location while turn toward them. Before I would've just lost track of them for a bit, and in a couple fights in Zero, this is really useful.
Weak points on bosses can actually be challenging to hit now that the player can have more control over aiming. I appreciate enemies with hard-to-reach weak spots (like the spider walkers top/bottom spots) and it's a welcome change of pace (in that you're still shooting things and maneuvering a fun-to-use ship) to have to do bombing runs, passing over them, looking down and landing shots.
Doing loops and u-turns shouldn't lock the players view during their duration though — I want to be able to still aim around while looping, and so forth. It's nice that it's a way to reset the view, but I can do that at any time already with the left joystick, which is always going to be at my disposal.
Walker
Only a few instances where the Walker on-rails used can happen actually, but it's fine there.
Most of the time, it's all-range mode for it. I like using it when locked onto something — the ship will adjust to face what you lock-onto, and you can then strafe around it while aiming with the gyro. You can hold the lock-on button to strafe when not targeting an enemy, though I didn't use that too much, and only found it useful to mitigate problems while moving in tight spaces.
I found the Walker's movement fiddly, and still do. Having turning left/right be on both joysticks (can use both to turn quicker) has led to me barrel-rolling when I didn't want to, and since rolling in Walker form is a side-flip, that can be a problem when trying to maneuver onto small platforms or enemies (which is needed to hack a few control panels in the game). The "left-to-right," right joystick input has messed me up too many times since that will do a flip, even though I'm just looking from one direction to another quickly.
It's a neat addition to the arsenal, but I don't find the walker much fun in tight spaces, one of the only few places where it's useful over the Arwing. It's faster on land than the Landmaster, but not fast enough to be faster than the Arwing low above the ground. It isn't like controlling a traditional on-foot character since it seeks to emulate controlling a ship, but it's too fast and too fiddly for me to accomplish that feeling (something I find the Landmaster to do very well). I'd have preferred this to essentially control like Vanquish, and move extremely fast on land, yet provide functional dodging and snappier aiming to allow dancing around enemies. If this ever comes back, that's what I'd hope for — it should feel liberating and exhilarating when using it.
Gyrowing:
My biggest criticism of the Gyrowing is how it's used. I don't especially like using the ship itself, but it's functional. There are some quality-of-life improvements it could use, namely being able to move while reeling in the Direct-i bot and not being locked in place and just faster movement. That said, it's fine.
The level it gets all to itself is meant to be a stealth mission, but it's mostly just open space that you drift through — really dull and uneventful, and isn't even demanding as a stealth op. Had where the level lacked in high-speed action, it made up for it in being a tense stealth situation that demanded precise movement and timing, it would've been more engaging. As it is, even when trying to avoid spotlights, it's just slow and empty. This is another area I think multiplayer would allow aspects of the game to shine more — a mode where other players have to cover a Gyrowing user while they do a bombing run or something would be inherently more exciting, especially if it allowed two-player-one-ship co-op.
Was a better experience in the level it makes a brief appearance since that scenario had a soft time limit.
Landmaster
Has virtually nothing I dislike. Just feels awesome to use and has better aiming than its 64 counterpart, yet still feels like steering a heavy, cool tank thing where you have to manage strafing while firing missiles, and so forth. The addition of three lock-on missiles at a time is great and a welcome advantage over other ships. Its levels make good use of what it offers — the spider boss makes evident how nice it is to be able to precision-aim through the cockpit while doing the hover/strafe to dodge its legs/laser fire. Then, when it tries to land on you, you have to switch to the Gravmaster (flying Landmaster, essentially) to outrun it. Just a high degree of control, and a situation that demands some mastery of those controls. Makes each portion of the Landmaster sequences engaging.That the Landmaster is slower than the Arwing helps with selling the use of gyro aiming too — while one could argue classic "locked to ship's nose direction," aiming in the Arwing could be just as fast as gyro aiming (aside from really far up/down/to the sides), in the Landmaster, there was no way to aim this well in 64.
Co-op:
I posted about my experiences playing co-op with my dad in another thread; here's an excerpt pertaining directly to the controls:
That about sums up my experience with the controls themselves. I would've preferred a much better showcase for the Gyrowing, or to just not have it featured tbh, and the Walker should be more swift and more like Vanquish, in short. The Arwing and Landmaster could've carried this game entirely, and with a few tweaks to the controls, they would be pretty perfect for what they are.
There still needs to be more options (or options, full stop), maybe have a demo stage for people on the fence, and a better way of teaching players how to use them (not that the training missions are bad, they could just be better). A refinement of what Zero has done could make for a truly great sequel, but that's really up in the air because of the skimpy content and negative feedback the game has gotten because of them. Multiplayer would be the best way of validating the higher degree of control, and would make evident how functional they are to everyone just from seeing others use them well. We'll see.
