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2011 NBA Offseason Thread |OT2| The 2K servers are back, baby, they back!

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Noriega said:
LAL vs OKC tonight. Baby I'm hyped to see my Lakers play tonight!



oh wait...
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o wow hello mr buss

didnt know we had the owner of the lakers posting on gaf

his lakers goddamn
 
Oh, btw, a name that i think frequently gets overlooked defensively

Luc Richard Mbah a Moute

I don't watch enough bucks games to REALLY know how good he is, but what i have seen of him is usually good.

Shame about the no offensive game what so ever part.
 
Red Blaster said:
How likely will the Bulls amnest Boozehead? 80%-90%?
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50/50 IMO. They'll probably want that money to spend on rose... but it's a lot of money for them to just pay out. Gotta remember he's only 1 year into that contract, they have to pay out the other 5? years of it..... tons of money there.

And i'm not sure paxson (he's the bulls GM?) has given up on him, as much as everyone else has. I get the feeling they think he can still work out there, long term.
 
giri said:
Afflalo can guard 2's, and thats a "wing position", and he does guard 1's, so he does guard multiple positions.... but if you want to specifically include 3's, then no.

Pierce yes, because he's fundamentally better, he gets guys going into the support defense really well, i mean i can see the argument for no, but he does just as much, by doing it in the team which usually results in more consistent results.

Marion isn't over rated, i'd says he's right about where he should be, he does a number on a lot of players. Though age may take this away from him shortly.

Battier? no. Not after last season. Age has finally caught up to him.2 -3 years ago? yeah i'd have agreed.

Also, Deng had one hell of a year defensively.
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Deng is the one whose name slipped my mind. Like I said, lebron is top 5. Puts him at 5. I agree with the points you made about pierce (I said he's good), but he isn't the help defender that Lebron is while being only a bit better man to man.

We'll probably forever disagree on marion. I never believed he was that good of a defender, even in his prime. I think he was mostly the by-product of playing on a shit defense which allowed inflating his stats and worth.
 
Black Mamba said:
Deng is the one whose name slipped my mind. Like I said, lebron is top 5. Puts him at 5. I agree with the points you made about pierce (I said he's good), but he isn't the help defender that Lebron is while being only a bit better man to man.

We'll probably forever disagree on marion. I never believed he was that good of a defender, even in his prime. I think he was mostly the by-product of playing on a shit defense which allowed inflating his stats and worth.
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Probably not on Marion, but he was a good defender in phx, but never as good as he should have been. He's bit of a basket case. I think age might have finally allowed him to settle down.
 
Red Blaster said:
SVG has overachieved with what limited pieces he's had.
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Stop right there.

Couldn't you say that oh, I don't know, Mike Brown overachieved with the limited pieces he had in Cleveland?

Finals in 2007
ECF in 2009

And now he has a more talented team with better pieces!

That he has yet even actually coach!

Like I said before, a guy that has a team coached by the Master is trying to clown on Mike Brown.

When the Magic end the Lakers season, come talk to me.
 
It would be stupid to amnesty Boozer. He has too long a contract to do it; remember the cap hit will be spread out over the years. Who are they going to replace him with? If they had a legit SG or PF to go after this off-season, but this off-season is trash (best player is West off an ACL and then Tyson Chandler).

Although, I'd trade Boozer for West in a heartbeat if they knew they could make that move.
 
cuevas said:
Fuck the nba, at this point they aren't just fucking themselves they are fucking the cities that rely on them.
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detroits economy still has the lions and redwings i guess

cleveland only has the browns for 8 more weeks or so

i dread to think of what happens then if theres no nba deal
 
Black Mamba said:
It would be stupid to amnesty Boozer. He has too long a contract to do it; remember the cap hit will be spread out over the years. Who are they going to replace him with? If they had a legit SG or PF to go after this off-season, but this off-season is trash (best player is West off an ACL and then Tyson Chandler).

Although, I'd trade Boozer for West in a heartbeat if they knew they could make that move.
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the cap hit? i didn't think their contract counted towards the cap at all if amnestied?

though, it looks like they will be able to take 2 years to amnesty someone, so a guy like boozer might be given another year, and then axed. Rose has another year on his rookie contract i think?

But you're right, at this stage, there's no one better out there to get, free agent wise. But they do need to upgrade at either the 4 or the 2. I think the 2 is more important personally.
 
i thought there was an amnesty plan and a "double plus one" plan, where you pay them over twice the length of their contract plus one year.
 
giri said:
the cap hit? i didn't think their contract counted towards the cap at all if amnestied?

though, it looks like they will be able to take 2 years to amnesty someone, so a guy like boozer might be given another year, and then axed. Rose has another year on his rookie contract i think?

But you're right, at this stage, there's no one better out there to get, free agent wise. But they do need to upgrade at either the 4 or the 2. I think the 2 is more important personally.
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You double the contract length +1 at max to spread the costs of the deal. So 4 years left becomes 9. And what is it? $60 mil left? Still a $7.5 mil hit, roughly. Kind of big.

if they could use it the next season, would make more sense.

I think that's how it will work. but they're still negotiating that a bit.
 
wow i just realised cloving reneged on his avatar bet with dcx

technically that change should count as a violation yes

you have no shame or honour clovingsteam
 
iamshadowlark said:
Except that they weren't? We consistently loss against BOS and CHI only winning 1 game between the both of them. In the playoffs we consistently beat them losing only a game a piece between them. Is that improvement really hard for you to grasp?
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Chicago won their games by a collective 8 points and the Celtics mentally checked out of the season after the trade deadline.
 
“Right now, everyone has to choose sides: Billy or Derek,” one player involved in the labor process told Yahoo! Sports. “How the [expletive] did it come to this?”
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/gg
 
thekad said:
Is this like when Obama "stormed out" of a meeting that was over.
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AWoj is sensationalist and his opinions in an op-ed suck, but he usually has the basics right.
 
reilo said:
AWoj is sensationalist and his opinions in an op-ed suck, but he usually has the basics right.
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Woj said:
In the end, there are two courses for the union: Take the deal largely on the table or blow this up, decertify and lose the season fighting the NBA in the federal courts.

Only, it’s too late to decertify. Everyone wanted to do it back in July when the lockout started, and Hunter refused. His decision had nothing to do with legal strategy, nothing to do with leverage or getting the best possible deal for the players. It had everything to do with what it always does with Hunter: self-preservation. He worried about losing power, losing his job, and he sold everyone on a toothless National Labor Relations Board claim that’s going nowhere.
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He's narrative building (ie he's a hack).
 
thekad said:
He's narrative building (ie he's a hack).
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Oh yeah, definitely. I ignore those things for sure. It's quite obvious who his sources are (NBA agents and some players).

The same thing happened with that Paul Allen thing a couple of weeks ago. Now the story has switched.
 
reilo said:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...w-wojnarowski_nba_lockout_billy_hunter_110111
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Woj's sources are agents and their uh..retelling of things is with a certain shade of grey.

According to the union, Hunter never just walked out. The two sides collectively agreed the meeting was over when the owners said they wouldn't move past 50/50 and hunter said they wouldn't go below 52.

Just look at this quote:

"Only, it’s too late to decertify. Everyone wanted to do it back in July when the lockout started, and Hunter refused. His decision had nothing to do with legal strategy, nothing to do with leverage or getting the best possible deal for the players. It had everything to do with what it always does with Hunter: self-preservation. He worried about losing power, losing his job, and he sold everyone on a toothless National Labor Relations Board claim that’s going nowhere."

Such bullshit. Decertification is a last ditch hail mary effort and always would be. NFLPA lost in court.

Not to mention, reports I've read said hunter basically said "i can't sell 50/50 to the players" to Stern and now Woj reporting Hunter is the last hold-out.

This piece is a character assassination piece with the hands of the agents all over it trying to bring hunter down.


"Sooner than later, these labor talks need to get out of Fisher’s and Hunter’s hands, and into those of the rank and file. Whatever the civil war, the Players Association still belongs to the players. They should take it back, and take it back now."

What a farce. yeah, it makes sense to allow uneducated rank and file players make decisions for the future. That's how they win this dispute.
 
Black Mamba said:
Woj's sources are agents and their uh..retelling of things is with a certain shade of grey.

According to the union, Hunter never just walked out. The two sides collectively agreed the meeting was over when the owners said they wouldn't move past 50/50 and hunter said they wouldn't go below 52.

Just look at this quote:

"Only, it’s too late to decertify. Everyone wanted to do it back in July when the lockout started, and Hunter refused. His decision had nothing to do with legal strategy, nothing to do with leverage or getting the best possible deal for the players. It had everything to do with what it always does with Hunter: self-preservation. He worried about losing power, losing his job, and he sold everyone on a toothless National Labor Relations Board claim that’s going nowhere."

Such bullshit. Decertification is a last ditch hail mary effort and always would be. NFLPA lost in court.

Not to mention, reports I've read said hunter basically said "i can't sell 50/50 to the players" to Stern and now Woj reporting Hunter is the last hold-out.

This piece is a character assassination piece with the hands of the agents all over it trying to bring hunter down.


"Sooner than later, these labor talks need to get out of Fisher’s and Hunter’s hands, and into those of the rank and file. Whatever the civil war, the Players Association still belongs to the players. They should take it back, and take it back now."

What a farce. yeah, it makes sense to allow uneducated rank and file players make decisions for the future. That's how they win this dispute.
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AWoj said:
Nevertheless, the end game of the players’ deal doesn’t make Fisher corrupt, on the take or a sellout of his peers. Only, Fisher knows in his heart what has happened, and maybe someday an agenda could come clear. Not now, though. Not with Hunter and his minions running this kind of low-rent garbage.

For now, Billy Hunter has the clearest agenda here: self-preservation. This job is too public now, too scrutinized to think smoke and mirrors can save you. Those days are done, and probably so is he.
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Who writes like this? Seriously?

And could he be more obvious that Fisher or his agent called in?
 
Steve Kauffman, who was a player agent during the 1998-99 lockout, saw first hand how agents can derail the bargaining process. It was 100 times worse in '98-'99, when super agent David Falk wielded enormous influence as the representative for the majority of players on the union's bargaining committee, including NBPA president Patrick Ewing.

By all accounts, the pressure from the Super Seven this time around has been mild by comparison. The agents who wrote that letter have quieted their calls for players to abandon the union through a rogue decertification, and one union official said Tuesday that most agents who reach out to Hunter and other NBPA executives have done so constructively.

But to the extent that agents are influencing Hunter and impairing his ability to close this deal, Kauffman questions not only their motivation but also, in some cases, their qualifications.

"If agents, individually or collectively, are trying to derail Billy and the players' union from concluding this deal, that is at best inappropriate and at worst irresponsible," said Kauffman, a respected expert on CBA issues who now represents coaches and front-office executives. "Obviously, the career span of an agent is far longer than that of a player. Many agents are primarily looking out for their own best interests.

"And to take it a step further," Kauffman added, "there are some that I believe don't fully understand the issues and how they affect their own clients."

Kauffman's comments, on the record and without fear of reprisal, raise two key points:

• Agents' attempts to influence the negotiations can be harmful even if their overriding point that the players have made too many concessions is accurate.

• Their motivation is not purely client-driven, but in some instances self-driven. Less money for players means less for agents, and further restrictions on player movement makes their roles less vital.

When hard-line owners dig in, at least it's their investment and their business model they're trying to protect. The agents?

"They have the biggest conflict of interest of anyone," a front office executive told CBSSports.com.

Given the opportunity to respond to Kauffman's statements, a prominent member of the Super Seven declined comment Tuesday.
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http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/...night-labor-fight-continues-because-of-agents

haha. berger just released an article complaining about the agents holding a lot of this up.
 
reilo said:
Who writes like this? Seriously?

And could he be more obvious that Fisher or his agent called in?
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I don't think it was fisher, but it was someone who is backing Fish for sure.

As you guys said, it's a hack piece. But there has been so much genuinely amateur "reporting" this lock out, with so much clear bias and little thought put into it, with clear agendas, that this really doesn't raise an eyebrow.

The only thing that shocks me is one of the articles hasn't come out straight up with "we should let Nike be the arbitrator"
 
While we're waiting for the season to start
some time next year
we should simply act as though tonight is the beginning of last season. Every day we will discuss the games of today's date of last season. It's a win win for all. We get to reexperience the failings of the Heat.
 
ClovingSteam said:
While we're waiting for the season to start
some time next year
we should simply act as though tonight is the beginning of last season. Every day we will discuss the games of today's date of last season. It's a win win for all. We get to reexperience the failings of the Heat.
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Pass.

Lets follow the season before where the suns were relevant.
 
ClovingSteam said:
While we're waiting for the season to start
some time next year
we should simply act as though tonight is the beginning of last season. Every day we will discuss the games of today's date of last season. It's a win win for all. We get to reexperience the failings of the Heat.
Click to expand...

Cool, I can't wait until the Christmas Day games.
 
i fired up association on 2k12 to play with the trade system on the heat, see what i could get for dwade and shit

traded dwade and chris bosh for marc gasol, zbo and rudy gay

this is probably a terrible trade game wise because lmao second most broken player in the game, but i cant decide whether its a good trade or not for real life

leaning towards pretty lousy, but not 100% on this

much better than the denver trade for lebron people talked about though
 
rumor going around that if baron is amnestied (oh, he will be), he wants to be a Laker.

Do not want..

edit: There is one and only one Miami Heat trade involving the big 3 that makes any sense for both teams.

Lebron for Dwight.

That's it.

When's the last time the Rockets were playing Christmas day? Oh...
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Well, the Rockettes.
 
Duki said:
i fired up association on 2k12 to play with the trade system on the heat, see what i could get for dwade and shit

traded dwade and chris bosh for marc gasol, zbo and rudy gay

this is probably a terrible trade game wise because lmao second most broken player in the game, but i cant decide whether its a good trade or not for real life

leaning towards pretty lousy, but not 100% on this

much better than the denver trade for lebron people talked about though
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Whilst i like the pieces, it's a much worse trade. It would leave them with no one at 1 or 2. unless you plan to run gay @ 2?
 
Black Mamba said:
rumor going around that if baron is amnestied (oh, he will be), he wants to be a Laker.

Do not want..
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Cheap motivated Baron...not sure if want.

Baron over fish all day, if he gets in shape and Kobe keeps him in line...but then again it is Baron after all. I'm torn.
 
giri said:
Whilst i like the pieces, it's a much worse trade. It would leave them with no one at 1 or 2. unless you plan to run gay @ 2?
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yeah rudy at 2, fuck it why not

no one at the one? u kiddin me, got nba finalist mario chalmers up in this shit

raining threes all day man
 
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