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[Leonidas]

Two new desktop CPU architectures launch this year. Who will take the desktop CPU gaming crown in 2024.

2020 was a toss up between Zen 3 and 10th Gen
2021 Alder Lake was the fastest
2022 Raptor Lake was the fastest (beating Zen4)
2023 7800X3D was the fastest
2024 a new gaming king will be crowned Who Will Win ?

 

[Buggy Loop]

What’s the definition of being king? Pure raw performance? King of fps vs power draw? fps for power for best price?

 

[T4keD0wN]

What’s the definition of being king? Pure raw performance? King of fps vs power draw? fps for power for best price?

Whichever melts the most motherboards wins.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Plot twist: Loongson delivers the fastest gaming CPU of 2024, AMD and Intel stock prices fall into the abyss and leatherjacket man quickly buys up half of all shares.

 

[Leonidas]

What’s the definition of being king? Pure raw performance? King of fps vs power draw? fps for power for best price?

Raw gaming performance.

In the unlikely event of a tie then the winner goes to whichever CPU improves gaming performance more with overclocking.

 

[LavitzSlambert]

Zen 5 will be better for most people, and my vote. I don't think it will impress people that much over Zen 4 3D NAND though. Intel might pump out the biggest beast of a CPU, but the efficiency and heat will outweigh the benefits. It's not the thread, but AMD better watch out on the GPU front, I think Intel's big surprise this year is going to be how competent Battlemage is.

 

[Chiggs]

No Country for Old Zen?

 

[Buggy Loop]

Raw gaming performance.

In the unlikely event of a tie then the winner goes to whichever CPU improves gaming performance more with overclocking.

Yeah but if 2 fps more at 1080p but for 200W more, is that really the king? I mean maybe at the top of the list, but nobody would buy it. Anyway, I have no clue what Intel is cooking, but I feel the dragon has to come back one day, if not this one, later. They have a lot of pieces on the chess board for a good future.

 

[Leonidas]

Yeah but if 2 fps more at 1080p but for 200W more, is that really the king? I mean maybe at the top of the list, but nobody would buy it. Anyway, I have no clue what Intel is cooking, but I feel the dragon has to come back one day, if not this one, later. They have a lot of pieces on the chess board for a good future.

Arrow Lake should be efficient given its new node.

AMDs huge manufacturing advantage seemingly dissapeared.

Even with the huge node disadvantage last time CPUs like 12600K, 12700K, 13600K, 14600K and 13400F were pretty much on par with Zen4 in gaming efficiency. Its only when Intel pushes clocks to 5.5 and higher where Raptor Lake got out of hand.

If they're on a similar node, I don't think there will be much difference between the two, with a chance of Intel beating Zen5 in gaming efficiency.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Intel is currently in "show me" status

Show me how much better it is

Otherwise yeah I'll just stick with AMD

 

[LordOfChaos]

That Intel was competitive at all with such a node disadvantage was almost remarkable in itself. Although they blew up the power use in doing so.

Now that we might be at a crossover where Intel has a node advantage? I think people might be sleeping on that a bit, although it's not the popular answer

 

[hinch7]

Arrowlake won't have E-Cores (which are redundant for gaming) and is on new node and rumored to have bumped up their cache, so they do have a fighting chance. Zen 5 is supposedly a big jump from Zen 4 as well so will be interesting to see who comes out top for gaming. Especially the X3D variant verses their equivelant.

 

[Chiggs]

That Intel was competitive at all with such a node disadvantage was almost remarkable in itself. Although they blew up the power use in doing so.

Now that we might be at a crossover where Intel has a node advantage? I think people might be sleeping on that a bit, although it's not the popular answer

See the post right above you from U Unknown Soldier .

 

[LordOfChaos]

See the post right above you from U Unknown Soldier .

I don't disagree, all of this is in let's see mode

 

[Celcius]

I'm assuming AMD doesn't launch X3D chips this year and Intel has the performance crown in 2024

 

[diffusionx]

Performance on games or using it to start a fire in an emergency?

 

[OverHeat]

lol at the gap in the votes

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Honestly no idea. I’d be happy to see Intel leapfrog AMD but I wouldn’t bet on it.

 

[Leonidas]

Intel is currently in "show me" status

Show me how much better it is

Otherwise yeah I'll just stick with AMD

The fact that Intel has been on par or faster than AMD with an older node tells me all I need to know.

Without 3D V-Cache and a node advantage I don't think AMD has a snowballs chance in hell to match Intel in gaming performance.

 

[cartman414]

Arrowlake won't have E-Cores (which are redundant for gaming) and is on new node and rumored to have bumped up their cache, so they do have a fighting chance. Zen 5 is supposedly a big jump from Zen 4 as well so will be interesting to see who comes out top for gaming. Especially the X3D variant verses their equivelant.

Where did you hear it won't have E-cores? It'll drop hyperthreading.

 

[hinch7]

Where did you hear it won't have E-cores? It'll drop hyperthreading.

From Guru3D. Think I misread though.. They're rumored to have them in tiles instead of directly on package.

 

[Allandor]

The fact that Intel has been on par or faster than AMD with an older node tells me all I need to know.

Without 3D V-Cache and a node advantage I don't think AMD has a snowballs chance in hell to match Intel in gaming performance.

With 3x the power consumption... that has to been downgraded by Intel ....
The last 3 Intel gens were more or less the same, just higher & longer boost rates with more power consumption. Now this seems to be a problem after they had to go down with those irresponsible numbers.
The new arch might just get what they lost

 

[FireFly]

That Intel was competitive at all with such a node disadvantage was almost remarkable in itself. Although they blew up the power use in doing so.

Now that we might be at a crossover where Intel has a node advantage? I think people might be sleeping on that a bit, although it's not the popular answer

We've seen what happens when Intel first goes to a new process: performance gets worse! Both Meteor Lake and Ice Lake/Tiger Lake saw single core performance regressions over the previous (process) generation. All this talk about Intel's process inferiority ignores the fact that they use the same process name to cover years of ongoing improvements to boost clock speeds. The Intel 7 process (formerly 10nm) used in the Raptor Lake CPUs is on its 3rd generation and on their laptop CPUs they went from a max boost of 4.1 GHz (Ice Lake) to 5 GHz (Tiger Lake) to 5.6 GHz (Raptor Lake).

The situation is a bit different this time, since they will be on TSMC 3nm for their i7 CPUs. But it still remains to be seen what will happen with clock speeds.

 

[winjer]

The fact that Intel has been on par or faster than AMD with an older node tells me all I need to know.

Without 3D V-Cache and a node advantage I don't think AMD has a snowballs chance in hell to match Intel in gaming performance.

Let's just remember that Intel just had to lower their power states so that their CPUs don't crash in games. That's all you need to know.

And saying that without 3DVcache, AMD would not have an advantage is ridiculous, because AMD developed that tech for this exact purpose.
Intel could have done something similar. In fact they did, with the 5775C, with similar results.
But let's be realistic, had Intel tried to put a piece of cache on top of their CPUs, while it can go close to 400W, would be a recipe for disaster.

 

[Leonidas]

Let's just remember that Intel just had to lower their power states so that their CPUs don't crash in games. That's all you need to know.

The losses in gaming performance was marginal. They'd have to lose 10% performance on affected CPUs to drop to Zen4 levels.

13th Gen is clearly the faster gaming architecture than Zen4, despite using a much worse node. There's no arguing it.

BTW, my 13600K didn't lose performance. I actually gained efficiency since the latest BIOSes seem to reduce my power by around 25% with no performance loss... I have headroom for overclocking if I wanted, but I instead undervolted and have much better efficiency than the reviews you see online.

And saying that without 3DVcache, AMD would not have an advantage is ridiculous, because AMD developed that tech for this exact purpose.

How is it a ridiculous statement when its true, without V-Cache AMD would not have beaten Intel in gaming in 2023.

I'm not taking anything away from 7800X3D, its the fastest gaming CPU in 2023, but it loses in 2024.

And Zen5 will likely lose again compared to Arrow Lake, since AMD will not have both 3D and node advantage in 2024. If they had one, maybe they could tie Arrow Lake, but without either, slim chance for AMD to come out on top.

Intel could have done something similar. In fact they did, with the 5775C, with similar results.

I know, I had one. That CPU was a beast for its time. And they could do it again in the future with Adamantine L4 Cache.

But Intel doesn't need V-Cache to have the fastest CPU.

But let's be realistic, had Intel tried to put a piece of cache on top of their CPUs, while it can go close to 400W, would be a recipe for disaster.

7800X3D has a paltry 5.0 boost speed. If Intel turned the clocks down to match that, it would not be anywhere near 400W and you know this...

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Two new desktop CPU architectures launch this year. Who will take the desktop CPU gaming crown in 2024.

2020 was a toss up between Zen 3 and 10th Gen
2021 Alder Lake was the fastest
2022 Raptor Lake was the fastest (beating Zen4)
2023 7800X3D was the fastest
2024 a new gaming king will be crowned Who Will Win ?

I honestly think Arrow Lake will lose some performance to Meteor/Raptor Lake. I am fairly certain that Intels focus will be on dropping the power. If they can get the power somewhere close to Zen 4 levels while maintaining most of Meteor Lake performance, they will have a solid if not game-changing CPU.

 

[winjer]

The losses in gaming performance was marginal. They'd have to lose 10% performance on affected CPUs to drop to Zen4 levels.

13th Gen is clearly the faster gaming architecture than Zen4, despite using a much worse node. There's no arguing it.

BTW, my 13600K didn't lose performance. I actually gained efficiency since the latest BIOSes seem to reduce my power by around 25% with no performance loss... I have headroom for overclocking if I wanted, but I instead undervolted and have much better efficiency than the reviews you see online.

Loses will depend on the CPU itself. You probably know that there is a good amount of variance in CPU quality production.
This is why some 14th and 13th gen had no issues with crashes due to high power limits, and others had issues.
So in the same way, some will clock just as well with the new lower power limits. But other, being of lower silicon quality, will suffer more.
It's good that you got a good sample. But not everyone is as lucky.

Considering these losses, Intel's 14th/14th gen gets very close to Zen4.
And that is not even considering the 3DVcache variants.

How is it a ridiculous statement when its true, without V-Cache AMD would not have beaten Intel in gaming in 2023.

I'm not taking anything away from 7800X3D, its the fastest gaming CPU in 2023, but it loses in 2024.

And Zen5 will likely lose again compared to Arrow Lake, since AMD will not have both 3D and node advantage in 2024. If they had one, maybe they could tie Arrow Lake, but without either, slim chance for AMD to come out on top.

The 7800X3D is still the fastest CPU in the market. More so with Intel's new power limits in place, reducing clocks speeds.

At this point no one knows if Zen5 or Arrow Lake will be the best CPUs in the market. Not even Intel and AMD know that, since they are keeping their cards close.
And most surely, nor you, nor I, know which one will win. So please, don't bother with claiming the win for Intel at this point in time.

I know, I had one. That CPU was a beast for its time. And they could do it again in the future with Adamantine L4 Cache.

But Intel doesn't need V-Cache to have the fastest CPU.

7800X3D has a paltry 5.0 boost speed. If Intel turned the clocks down to match that, it would not be anywhere near 400W and you know this...

Of course I know Intel CPUs would not consume 400W if they were not pushed as hard with clock speed.
But then it would be as fast as 12th gen and normal Zen4. And it would lose a by an even bigger margin against the 3DVcache parts.
The reality is that Intel needs to clock their CPUs so high to remain competitive. And power usage be damned.
And you know very well that Intel does not have the fastest CPU for gaming. That is still the 7800X3D and 7950X3D.

 

[Leonidas]

And most surely, nor you, nor I, know which one will win. So please, don't bother with claiming the win for Intel at this point in time.

That's why I created this prediction thread... I never claimed Intel will win, only that they likely will win, given AMD will not have both 3D V-cache and node advantage, and with that advantage AMD only managed a ~5% win (at 1080p w/ 4090).

And you know very well that Intel does not have the fastest CPU for gaming. That is still the 7800X3D and 7950X3D.

Did you miss the part where I said the 7800X3D is the fastest in 2023?

You know very well that its likely to lose that title this year.

 

[winjer]

That's why I created this prediction thread... I never claimed Intel will win, only that they likely will win, given AMD will not have both 3D V-cache and node advantage, and with that advantage AMD only managed a ~5% win (at 1080p w/ 4090).

Did you miss the part where I said the 7800X3D is the fastest in 2023?

You already stated a few times that Arrow lake will beat Zen5. Don't try to pretend that didn't happen.

BTW, regarding architecture guru3d does an IPC test. They basically set all CPU to the same speed and run a single thread benchmark. Cinebench.
This way, they can remove clock speed and core count from the equation and focus only on pipeline execution. Cinebench also doesn't care about L3 cache size. So even the 3DVcache CPUs don't get any advantage.
And here is he IPC result:

 

[Leonidas]

You already stated a few times that Arrow lake will beat Zen5. Don't try to pretend that didn't happen.

It probably will.

And here is he IPC result:

A single IPC result is meaningless. Cinebench 15 is ancient.

 

[Leonidas]

Glad to see more people selecting the probable winner of the 2024 Gaming CPU King.

Felt lonely when I posted this when I was the only one in the first 30 or so votes

 

[winjer]

A single IPC result is meaningless. Cinebench 15 is ancient.

True, it is just one test. But it fills the CPU pipeline very well.
You might not like it, but the reality is that Zen4 and 13th gen have very similar performance. Its only when Intel pushes clocks hard, that they get some distance.
Or when AMD adds a ton of cache.

 

[Leonidas]

True, it is just one test. But it fills the CPU pipeline very well.
You might not like it, but the reality is that Zen4 and 13th gen have very similar performance. Its only when Intel pushes clocks hard, that they get some distance.
Or when AMD adds a ton of cache.

Raptor is still faster than Zen4, clock for clock, in games.

Zen4 barely beat Alder, only due to Zen4s much higher clocks.

Why is 13600K beating every Zen4 CPU? 13600K is only 5.1, every Zen4 CPU on this list goes higher.

7600x is 5.4 Ghz boost, vs. 13600K with a 5.1 GHz cap. 13600K, still wins...

Lower clocks and still Raptor wins.

Raptor is clearly superior to Zen4 in gaming. Hopefully AMD releases Zen5 3D this year, I doubt Zen5 even matches Zen4 3D.

 

[winjer]

Raptor is still faster than Zen4, clock for clock, in games.

Zen4 barely beat Alder, only due to Zen4s much higher clocks.

Why is 13600K beating every Zen4 CPU? 13600K is only 5.1, every Zen4 CPU on this list goes higher.

7600x is 5.4 Ghz boost, vs. 13600K with a 5.1 GHz cap. 13600K, still wins...

Lower clocks and still Raptor wins.

Raptor is clearly superior to Zen4 in gaming. Hopefully AMD releases Zen5 3D this year so it can have a shot at the crown.

You might as well just compare the 7700X vs 13700k, since they have similar clocks.
The difference is 6%, with advantage for the 13700k.
And the reason why its faster than the 7700X is similar to why the 7800X3d outperforms every other CPU in games: cache. 13th gen has double the L2 cache per core, of 12th gen and zen4. And games love extra cache.

 

[Leonidas]

And the reason why its faster than the 7700X is 13th gen has double the L2 cache per core, of 12th gen and zen4. And games love extra cache.

You can't just say the 6% difference comes from bigger L2. You have no proof of this.

7600X has bigger L3 than 13600K and higher clocks, and still loses.

 

[winjer]

You can't just say the 6% difference comes from bigger L2. You have no proof of this.

7600X has bigger L3 than 13600K and higher clocks, and still loses.

The 12900K and 13700K have the exact same core count for P and E cores. And just 200Mhz difference in boost clocks.
Yet, they have a difference of 7% performance. The difference is L2 cache size.

And L2 cache is always more important than L3 cache. As it has lower latency and higher bandwidth.
Beside, the L3 cache in Zen4 is just a victim cache. An I think the L3 cache on Raptor lake is also a victim cache.

Another thing to consider is that the 13600K has more cores, than the 13600K. They are E-cores, but they do manage to alleviate background tasks.

 

[Insane Metal]

I bet Zen 5 will be more power efficient than Arrow Lake. The fastest chip, who knows. At least AMD CPUs have been good (different from their GPUs).

 

[MikeM]

Gaming? AMD 4 sho.

Productivity?

 

[Leonidas]

The 12900K and 13700K have the exact same core count for P and E cores. And just 200Mhz difference in boost clocks.
Yet, they have a difference of 7% performance. The difference is L2 cache size.

And L2 cache is always more important than L3 cache. As it has lower latency and higher bandwidth.
Beside, the L3 cache in Zen4 is just a victim cache. An I think the L3 cache on Raptor lake is also a victim cache.

Another thing to consider is that the 13600K has more cores, than the 13600K. They are E-cores, but they do manage to alleviate background tasks.

If true, good thing it seems Intel had the wherewithal to increase L2 further. Arrow Lake rumored to have 3MB per core.

Yet another reason Arrow will probably beat Zen5 (unless AMD engineers had the wherewithal to also greatly increase L2, but then how will they sell V-Cache CPUs later on?)

Gaming? AMD 4 sho.

Productivity?

Glad my 13600K outperforms your 7600X

 

[MikeM]

If true, good thing it seems Intel had the wherewithal to increase L2 further. Arrow Lake rumored to have 3MB per core.

Yet another reason Arrow will probably beat Zen5 (unless AMD engineers had the wherewithal to also greatly increase L2, but then how will they sell V-Cache CPUs later on?)



Glad my 13600K outperforms your 7600X

The amount of fucks given

I got a bundle deal that was way cheaper than Intel at the time. Potentially sick upgrade path on AM5 if we get another series after the 9000 series.

 

[Leonidas]

I got a bundle deal that was way cheaper than Intel at the time. Sick upgrade path on AM5.

Great upgrade path sure, but probably won't be able to use the fastest gaming CPU of 2024.

 

[OverHeat]

My 7950x3D shit on your 13600K
Since we are in a dick size contest Leonidas

 

[MikeM]

Great upgrade path sure, but probably won't be able to use the fastest gaming CPU of 2024.

Who knows. Im waiting for the 9800x3d. To be fair, the 7600x has been plenty for my 7900xt for 4k/4k upscaled gaming. Only game that caused me issues with it is Spiderman with RT set to really high. Otherwise, been fantastic at keeping my GPU at 100% or close to it.

 

[Chiggs]

This thread is getting out of control. It's X86 vs X86, which is just a sad sight to see.

Gentleman, may I introduce you to the next "real" future war.

 

[Leonidas]

My 7950x3D shit on your 13600K
Since we are in a dick size contest Leonidas

Pick on people your own size, my CPU is less than half the price.

If you stick with AM5 though, my next CPU will probably be faster

 

[OverHeat]

Pick on people your own size, my CPU is less than half the price.

If you stick with AM5 though, my next CPU will probably be faster

Until the x3D variant launch…yes

 

[Leonidas]

Until the x3D variant launch…yes

There's a chance X3D won't save AMD gaming performance this time.

AMD no longer has a massive node advantage, where last time it amounted to a piddly ~5% better at 1080p (with a 4090).

I won't be surprised if Arrow Lake is faster than 9950X3D. And this is why I don't go the long haul on a platform.

 

[cartman414]

This thread is getting out of control. It's X86 vs X86, which is just a sad sight to see.

Gentleman, may I introduce you to the next "real" future war.

Lol.