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[KageMaru]

360. I honestly think Fable III despite it being a shitty game is a really good looking game that doesn't really compare to anything else on PS3

Also Viva Piñata, Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts, and Alan Wake are stunning.

I don't think fable 3 is a good game to use here. It's not doing anything special on a technical level, it's the art that carries the presentation in that game.

The same way PC games are compared, by looking at them. PS3 was more powerful, came out a year later, cost 200 more and still won. PS3 exclusives dominated, and in the last year and a half PS3 multiplats were superior.
Edit:No point in arguing about this because the difference between ps3 and x360 is minimal, shame the same cannot be said of current gen.

The architecture was completely different between the two, measuring power by looking at the systems as a whole does not tell the whole picture. Not sure what release dates, price, or which "won" has to do with the discussion. PS3 exclusives did not really dominate and it's a lie to say multiplatform games were consistently better on either system for the last year and a half.

This post does absolutely nothing to answer my question and only repeats the illogical reasoning that's prevalent in this thread.

 

[omonimo]

I don't think fable 3 is a good game to use here. It's not doing anything special on a technical level, it's the art that carries the presentation in that game.



The architecture was completely different between the two, measuring power by looking at the systems as a whole does not tell the whole picture. Not sure what release dates, price, or which "won" has to do with the discussion. PS3 exclusives did not really dominate and it's a lie to say multiplatform games were consistently better on either system for the last year and a half.

This post does absolutely nothing to answer my question and only repeats the illogical reasoning that's prevalent in this thread.

What multiplat have of better than a ps3 exclusive, talking tech wise?

 

[Mumford]

What multiplat have exactly better of the ps3 exclusive, tech wise?

If you're asking for a recent game that ran better on PS3 than 360, I know that GTA V runs better/ has less framerate drops on PS3. That was the first one that came to mind.

 

[Silky]

Fable III? O_O

Wat.

Art direction goes a long way.

What multiplat have of better than a ps3 exclusive, talking tech wise?

Crysis.

 

[CyberPunked]

Well...if we're going to talk about art...

I, for one, welcome the Journey 1080p 60fps PS4 remaster.

 

[twdnewh_k]

Multi-platform games were mostly better on 360.

Exclusive games generally looked better than multi-platform. For example Gears of War, God of War, Last of Us. I think the Ps3 exclusives have a slight edge.

As others have mentioned, the split memory gave the ps3 problems handling open world games.

Conclusion: No clear answer. Each system did certain things better.

 

[Fun Factor]

Incorrect. PS3 outsold Xbox360 worldwide as of December 2013. Sorry.

Articles for that are from January 2013.
Wikipedia shows 360 at 84 million & PS3 under 80 million.

 

[Death2494]

Articles for that are from January 2013.
Wikipedia shows 360 at 84 million & PS3 under 80 million.

Wikipedia!? OMG

http://us.playstation.com/corporate...3-sales-reach-80-million-units-worldwide.html

As reported on NOV,2nd. 80 million 2013

Xbox reports 80 million as of October 17th

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/10/17/xbox-360-80-million-sold-and-counting

Also this

Take a look @ that ps3 side buddy
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=852304&highlight=

"Via Aqua-math, PS3 Oct - March 2014 is 4.2 million, so it shouldn't be a far stretch to say November to July is 4.5-5 million PS3s sold, which puts us at 84-85 million PS3s (Say 84 to be safe)"

PS4-PS3-Vita = 100 million sold July 9th

 

[Fafalada]

Yes, we're discussing p30-31, and that has nothing to do with baking.

It doesn't seem like it had much to do with actual AO either though - the baked component is shown as directional-shadows, but it looks "AO-ish" because of low-resolution bleeding.
I find the artifacts less unsettling than majority of SS implementations in games over last 5 years too.

And sure it's hackery - but so is everything in realtime CG KZ2 pulled off a consistent look, which is more than can be said of what SF turned out as.

 

[Ottoni_Bastos]

What multiplat have of better than a ps3 exclusive, talking tech wise?

- Final fantasy 13(and probably the sequels)
- GTA 5 (i think Red Dead Redemption too)
- Portal 2
- Most of japanese games.
- Maybe bioshock? mass effect 2?

 

[BadAss2961]

This is still a debate?

360 usually had better multiplats because it was easier to develop for.

PS3 exclusives usually had better graphics than anything on 360 at their times of release because it was actually the more powerful system (though Sony has great devs too). To this day, the 360 still has nothing quite on the level of Uncharted 2/3, the God of War games, The Killzone games, TLoU, and probably Beyond as well.

Oh, and the Ratchet & Clank games are pretty underrated graphically too.

 

[truth411]

On topic, I don't see how anyone could argue against the PS3.
A good example is Forza vs. GT.

Forza 4 = 1280x720 2xMsaa
GT6 = 1440x1080 ( over 65% more resolution) or 1280x720 4xMsaa

GT also has higher polygon count for it's in-game cars I believe.

IMVHO: Generally speaking with multiplats 360>PS3 Because of how straight forward the 360 architecture is.

PS3>360 when coding to the metal to show what your specific platform can do, thus exclusives. Just look at the first party titles... Uncharted 2/3, Killzone 2/3, God of War 3, TLOU etc... That's my 2¢.

Edit: totally forgot about Beyond, my gosh it was a looker!!!

 

[MadScientist]

Everything I know lets me come to the conclusion that the 360 is more powerful, but Naughty Dog, SSM, Quantic Dream and Guerilla were more focused on (or capable with) tech than Bungie.

If the "easier to develop on" argument was true, there should be at least some multiplatform titles where the PS3 has a significant lead over the 360 version, and I can't think of any.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

Did anyone post some mind blowingly good caps from halo 4? The majority I've seen in here have been terrible.

Ps3 hands down in my opinion.

 

[Zimbardo]

own both consoles, and it seemed that the 360 had a bit of a leg up on the ps3 when it came to multiplatform titles ...but the ps3 exclusives typically showed off better graphics than the 360's best, imo.

 

[truth411]

Everything I know lets me come to the conclusion that the 360 is more powerful, but Naughty Dog, SSM, Quantic Dream and Guerilla were more focused on (or capable with) tech than Bungie.

If the "easier to develop on" argument was true, there should be at least some multiplatform titles where the PS3 has a significant lead over the 360 version, and I can't think of any.

But it's the hardware that enables the software to perform the way it does. No way would Sony 1st party titles look as good as it does without the Cell's SPEs.

Also there are a few multiplats were the PS3 had an advantage (small one). Off the top of my head would be Battlefield 3 and maybe GTA V. Hmm Final Fantasy aswell? It's more of the exception than the norm. But Sony's 1st party titles were in a league of there own. I still remember GOW3 implementation of Sony's custom MLAA running on the SPUs.

 

[StuBurns]

FFXIII is considerably better on PS3, the IQ and performance are both significantly better on PS3.

 

[HTupolev]

Also there are a few multiplats were the PS3 had an advantage (small one). Off the top of my head would be Battlefield 3 and maybe GTA V. Hmm Final Fantasy aswell?

FFXIII wasn't a "small" advantage.

The major discrepencies:
-The PS3 version has about 50% higher spatial sampling than the 360 version (720p vs 576p)
-Encoding for pre-rendered sequences is astronomically better in the PS3 version
-1 disc on PS3 versus 3 discs on 360
-The 360 version suffers from severe framerate issues when there are big areas with lots of NPCs, especially in chapter's 8 and 11 (a pretty big issue in the case of the latter, since one of the infamous spots of poor framerate is where a lot of endgame content is).

 

[TheUnsunghero26]

- Final fantasy 13(and probably the sequels)
- GTA 5 (i think Red Dead Redemption too)
- Portal 2
- Most of japanese games.
- Maybe bioshock? mass effect 2?

These ones were actually better on 360. Especially Red Dead. Not sure about Bioshock.

I remember the comparison between FF13 being heavily in the PS3's favour though.

 

[nib95]

These ones were actually better on 360. Especially Red Dead. Not sure about Bioshock.

I remember the comparison between FF13 being heavily in the PS3's favour though.

Out of the above, GTA V and FFXIII are better on the PS3. Don't even know why people are bringing up Final Fantasy though, it's not even in the same league as stuff like God of War 3/Ascension, Uncharted 2/3, Beyond Two Souls, Gran Turismo 5/6, Killzone 3, Halo 4 and Last of Us.

 

[Noobcraft]

I don't know why people are referencing UC2, UC3 one upped it on graphics by a pretty big margin (UC2 characters have a plasticy sheen on their skin), but I remember being particularly blown away by Gears of War 3/Judgment graphics the most. I never got to play God of War 3 but I'd say Gears of War 3/Judgment had equal or better graphics than Uncharted 2/3 overall. Some areas of uncharted have an insane amount of detail while others are pretty drab and missing that attention.

 

[AEREC]

I don't know why people are referencing UC2, UC3 one upped it on graphics by a pretty big margin (UC2 characters have a plasticy sheen on their skin), but I remember being particularly blown away by Gears of War 3/Judgment graphics the most. I never got to play God of War 3 but I'd say Gears of War 3/Judgment had equal or better graphics than Uncharted 2/3 overall. Some areas of uncharted have an insane amount of detail while others are pretty drab and missing that attention.

The jump from UC1 to UC2 had a bigger impact on people than the minor upgrade from UC2 to UC3.

Also to throw in my 2 cents...PS3 had the potential for better graphics, as evidenced by most of their exclusives. However 360 always had the better looking and performing multiplats.

 

[Contra11]

FFXIII wasn't a "small" advantage.

The major discrepencies:
-The PS3 version has about 50% higher spatial sampling than the 360 version (720p vs 576p)
-Encoding for pre-rendered sequences is astronomically better in the PS3 version
-1 disc on PS3 versus 3 discs on 360
-The 360 version suffers from severe framerate issues when there are big areas with lots of NPCs, especially in chapter's 8 and 11 (a pretty big issue in the case of the latter, since one of the infamous spots of poor framerate is where a lot of endgame content is).

Its just a bad port ..

 

[nOoblet16]

One of the main reason why a considerable number of multiplatform tittle were better on Xbox 360 was due to UE3, since a lot of multi plats last gen used UE3. And the Xbox 360 was kind of designed for UE3 and opposite in some cases (Gears and UE3 is the reason why the console had 512MB RAM).

Of course there were other facts such as the more difficult architecture and such.

 

[Fezan]

Out of the above, GTA V and FFXIII are better on the PS3. Don't even know why people are bringing up Final Fantasy though, it's not even in the same league as stuff like God of War 3/Ascension, Uncharted 2/3, Beyond Two Souls, Gran Turismo 5/6, Killzone 3, Halo 4 and Last of Us.

You also think Halo4 looks good

 

[TheUnsunghero26]

Out of the above, GTA V and FFXIII are better on the PS3. Don't even know why people are bringing up Final Fantasy though, it's not even in the same league as stuff like God of War 3/Ascension, Uncharted 2/3, Beyond Two Souls, Gran Turismo 5/6, Killzone 3, Halo 4 and Last of Us.

Yeah, I was just talking about the bolded ones (Red Dead, and ME2). I think the difference between Red Dead is what made people expect a big difference between GTA V. I think LA Noir was also better on PS3?

 

[truth411]

I don't know why people are referencing UC2, UC3 one upped it on graphics by a pretty big margin (UC2 characters have a plasticy sheen on their skin), but I remember being particularly blown away by Gears of War 3/Judgment graphics the most. I never got to play God of War 3 but I'd say Gears of War 3/Judgment had equal or better graphics than Uncharted 2/3 overall. Some areas of uncharted have an insane amount of detail while others are pretty drab and missing that attention.

I played both gears and uncharted, Uncharted had hands down better I.Q. imo, particularly the HDR lighting, Post Processing effects (Uncharted 2/3 Focal blur is fantastic), overall attention to detail/environment with water, snow, sand, tropical environments etc... When drake gets wet his clothes look wet. That doesn't mean gears didn't look great, it was beautiful, Gears 1 was my first oh-$hit moment looking at the visuals back in 2006.

 

[mintylurb]

One of the main reason why a considerable number of multiplatform tittle were better on Xbox 360 was due to UE3, since a lot of multi plats last gen used UE3. And the Xbox 360 was kind of designed for UE3 and opposite in some cases (Gears and UE3 is the reason why the console had 512MB RAM).

Of course there were other facts such as the more difficult architecture and such.

I think the biggest hurdle was the split memory on the ps3 even if the rsx could access xdr memory(which btw was slower than accessing ddr3).
Majority of the multi-platform games either looked and/or performed better on the x360 so I'll go with 360 being more powerful in the end.

 

[truth411]

One of the main reason why a considerable number of multiplatform tittle were better on Xbox 360 was due to UE3, since a lot of multi plats last gen used UE3. And the Xbox 360 was kind of designed for UE3 and opposite in some cases (Gears and UE3 is the reason why the console had 512MB RAM).

Of course there were other facts such as the more difficult architecture and such.

This^^^

 

[truth411]

I think the biggest hurdle was the split memory on the ps3 even if the rsx could access xdr memory(which btw was slower than accessing ddr3).
Majority of the multi-platform games either looked and/or performed better on the x360 so I'll go with 360 being more powerful in the end.

The objection would be that it is not multiplats that show what a specific platform is capable of, it's exclusives that show what your platform can do. Virtually almost all multiplats did not make full use of the PS3 SPEs (that's where most of the PS3 performance is at), thus of course multiplats would favor the 360. But when coded to the metal making full use of CELL , Sony's 1st party titles were largely unmatched.

 

[nOoblet16]

I played both gears and uncharted, Uncharted is had hands down better I.Q. imo, particularly the HDR lighting, Post Processing effects (Uncharted 2/3 Focal blur is fantastic), overall attention to detail/environment with water, snow, sand, tropical environments etc... When drake gets wet his clothes look wet. That doesn't mean gears didn't look great, it was beautiful, Gears 1 was my first oh-$hit moment looking at the visuals back in 2006.

The HDR in Uncharted is really something only games that impressed me equally on console when it came to HDR were GT5/GT6 and Halo Reach, closest to FP16 HDR we got to on last gen consoles (Heavenly sword was another but it looked like ass in comparison and it used Nao32 which was an older version of LogLuv seen in Uncharted and God of War 3)....even more special when you consider most games didn't even do HDR. Like all Gears games lack HDR, they just were very good at designing their game around this limitation by making good choice of light and colours, just like Killzone 2/3

 

[ProfessorMoran]

The HDR in Uncharted is really something only games that impressed me equally on console when it came to HDR were GT5/GT6 and Halo Reach, closest to FP16 HDR we got to on last gen consoles (Heavenly sword was another but it looked like ass in comparison and it used Nao32 which was an older version of LogLuv seen in Uncharted and God of War 3)....even more special when you consider most games didn't even do HDR. Like all Gears games lack HDR, they just were very good at designing their game around this limitation by making good choice of light and colours, just like Killzone 2/3

Gears games don't have HDR?

 

[truth411]

Gears games don't have HDR?

Nope.

 

[GIANKRATOS]

PS3, no doubt for me.

God Of War time

 

[dragonfart28]

There were more games on 360 that looked better than their PS3 counterparts so the answer is pretty obvious, isn't it?

 

[Summer Haze]

There were more games on 360 that looked better than their PS3 counterparts so the answer is pretty obvious, isn't it?

Not really, because you aren't looking into why those mutliplats looked better on the 360, which was because it was much easier to develop for. You're also ignoring exclusives. It would make no sense for most multiplats to look better on the 360, yet have PS3 exclusives look better than both 360 multiplats & exclusives, if the 360 was the more powerful console.

When you get down to the games from devs that only had to focus on each console exclusively, you find that, arguably, PS3 exclusives were unmatched. So in keeping with the OP's question about which console was more powerful graphically, I'd say the PS3.

 

[Dictator93]

The HDR in Uncharted is really something only games that impressed me equally on console when it came to HDR were GT5/GT6 and Halo Reach, closest to FP16 HDR we got to on last gen consoles (Heavenly sword was another but it looked like ass in comparison and it used Nao32 which was an older version of LogLuv seen in Uncharted and God of War 3)....even more special when you consider most games didn't even do HDR. Like all Gears games lack HDR, they just were very good at designing their game around this limitation by making good choice of light and colours, just like Killzone 2/3

Nope.

Um, yes they do. Its the reason why the Xbox 360 version of Gears 1 uses 2xMSAA and why the PC Version of Gears 1 only has MSAA in DX10 mode.. due to the HDR framebuffer.

In fact, since they do improper ordering on their MSAA resolve, HDRd surfaces in high contrast do not get anti-aliased.

 

[nOoblet16]

Um, yes they do. Its the reason why the Xbox 360 version of Gears 1 uses 2xMSAA and why the PC Version of Gears 1 only has MSAA in DX10 mode.. due to the HDR framebuffer.

The reason why Gears didn't have MSAA on PC without DX10 was down to the limitation of UE3. The Xbox 360 version can use it because the GPU was more advanced than a standard DX9 GPU. But the MSAA in UE3 was borked (it'd break as soon as it was hit by lighting or post processing since it was done before their light and post process pass, which is the sole reason why it broke) which is why it disappeared after the first two years.

As for the games none of them used HDR and it's pretty obvious to notice when you look for it. It's not immediately apparent because they were very cautious with their lighting and they'd avoid using bright light or low lit areas so as to not have black/white crush. I am 100% sure of this because I remember having extensive conversation over LDR lighting in KZ2 and Gears in Beyond3D back in the day.

 

[Dictator93]

The reason why Gears didn't have MSAA on PC without DX10 was down to the limitation of UE3. The Xbox 360 version can use it because the GPU was more advanced than a standard DX9 GPU. But the MSAA in UE3 was borked (it'd break as soon as it was hit by lighting or post processing) which is why it disappeared after the first two years. (

As for the games none of them used HDR and it's pretty obviously to notice when you look for it. It's not immediately obvious because they were very cautious with their lighting and they'd avoid using bright light or low lit areas so as to not have black/white crush.

The reason why Gears on PC only has MSAA in DX10 is due to the HDR resolve in that range only working in DX10! (a limitation of DX 9.0c) The xbox 360 GPU is advanced enough to due MSAA in HDR! Hence why it had MSAA! Otherwise, their framebuffer in LDR would use 4XMSAA!

Go read about UE 3.0 and HDR plus MSAA. You are writing things that are factually incorrect.

 

[nOoblet16]

The reason why Gears on PC only has MSAA in DX10 is due to the HDR resolve in that range only working in DX10! (a limitation of DX 9.0c) The xbox 360 GPU is advanced enough to due MSAA in HDR! Hence why it had MSAA! Otherwise, their framebuffer in LDR would use 4XMSAA!

Go read about UE 3.0 and HDR plus MSAA. You are writing things that are factually incorrect.

I did and I didn't find anything that supports your argument. Gears games use FP10 buffers for its lighting which is higher quality than just RGBA8 but not quite HDR, call it MDR if you like.

With respect to your talk about MSAA, you are connecting two separate dots. You cannot use the non availability of MSAA in Directx 9 for UE3 as a proof to say that the game uses HDR. You can have a look at the game themselves and see the intensity of lighting and that alone would tell you that it's not using HDR. The intensity of lighting is just not there because the limited range prevents it from having any without getting crushed whites, and the biggest proof to my claim is that there is no tone mapping in any of the Gears game.

The fact that you could still turn on MSAA from control panel and have it applied ingame in the exact same manner as it would if it were running in Directx 10 counters your argument that it was because of HDR. It was entirely down to issues in the engine and there really was no reason as per why it didn't have it. Bulletstorm on PC used proper HDR (console version were again limited to FP10) and can use MSAA while running in Directx9. It was because this issue was fixed by this iteration of the engine. Arkham Asylum being another case, eventhough nvidia said they "engineered" the MSAA for the game AMD later said that it was just normal Directx9 MSAA with a vendor id check.

 

[truth411]

Not really, because you aren't looking into why those mutliplats looked better on the 360, which was because it was much easier to develop for. You're also ignoring exclusives. It would make no sense for most multiplats to look better on the 360, yet have PS3 exclusives look better than both 360 multiplats & exclusives, if the 360 was the more powerful console.

When you get down to the games from devs that only had to focus on each console exclusively, you find that, arguably, PS3 exclusives were unmatched. So in keeping with the OP's question about which console was more powerful graphically, I'd say the PS3.

/Thread.

 

[Bold One]

Historical Revisionism: The Thread

The 360 had a lot of good even great looking games,

but nothing on the scope and scale of TLOU, Beyond, KZ2, GOW3/ A, KZ3, UC2/3

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Historical Revisionism: The Thread

The 360 had a lot of good even great looking games,

but nothing on the scope and scale of TLOU, Beyond, KZ2, GOW3/ A, KZ3, UC2/3

GT5 as well.

PS3 has the best looking exclusives for sure.

 

[Ottobit]

360 is more powerful if you don't put as much time in optimizing it, PS3 is more powerful once you know how to use it.

So... ps3.

 

[Wind's Howling]

When you get down to the games from devs that only had to focus on each console exclusively, you find that, arguably, PS3 exclusives were unmatched. So in keeping with the OP's question about which console was more powerful graphically, I'd say the PS3.

Isn't that just because of the fact that Sony has the better exclusive developers? Santa Monica and Naughty Dog have been rivaled for countless of years and they always won.

 

[TheUnsunghero26]

Wikipedia!? OMG

http://us.playstation.com/corporate...3-sales-reach-80-million-units-worldwide.html

As reported on NOV,2nd. 80 million 2013

Xbox reports 80 million as of October 17th

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/10/17/xbox-360-80-million-sold-and-counting

Also this

Take a look @ that ps3 side buddy
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=852304&highlight=

"Via Aqua-math, PS3 Oct - March 2014 is 4.2 million, so it shouldn't be a far stretch to say November to July is 4.5-5 million PS3s sold, which puts us at 84-85 million PS3s (Say 84 to be safe)"

PS4-PS3-Vita = 100 million sold July 9th

360 hit 84 million in June.

 

[Ottobit]

- Final fantasy 13(and probably the sequels)
- GTA 5 (i think Red Dead Redemption too)
- Portal 2
- Most of japanese games.
- Maybe bioshock? mass effect 2?

None of those games look better than Tlou or Beyond: Two Souls. GTAV and RDR come close, but even in comparison they're not match. And Bioshock? No way. ME3 looked better than ME2, and neither were on par with Beyond.

 

[GamerMax73]

360 had better CPU, GPU and a bit more flexibility in RAM, PS3 had the SPU's (in addition to the main CPU core and GPU) that probably gave it a bit more headroom and BluRays.

So?

Seriously I think the two machines were about has evenly matched as the XB1 and PS4. In truth you barely get a fag paper between them.

Ultimately it comes down to software - API's, compilers, developers and optimisation.

 

[lifa-cobex]

Would say the PS3 is more powerful for the consumer basis.
360 for the developer basis.

As previously said, Once you know how to make games for the PS3. The results are stunning.
However it will cost developers more money because of time needed.
360 will get great results in far less time.

I think it all depends on how define the success of the consoles.

 

[Feindflug]

None of those games look better than Tlou or Beyond: Two Souls. GTAV and RDR come close, but even in comparison they're not match. And Bioshock? No way. ME3 looked better than ME2, and neither were on par with Beyond.

Comparing Beyond with RDR? seriously? and btw RDR on 360 looks amazing, 1280*720 w/ 2xMSAA, good amount of AF, Euphoria engine, great textures, beautiful skyboxes, foliage reacting to wind, huge draw distance and excellent looking character models for an open world game. The attention to detail in this game is simply stunning.

World in motion timelapse video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pROWml_4sYQ