I explain it 5 posts up.
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3DS XL Circle Pad Pro coming this year
- Thread starter Wario64
- Start date
I explain it 5 posts up.
Nintendo already pissed off early adopters when they dropped the price $70 in 4 months. Continually pissing off your hardcore fans isn't really good for business.
If they added a second circle pad to the hardware dev's would start making games that require it.
Plus I'm sure Nintendo plans to sell both the 3DS and 3DS XL side by side like they did with the DSi and DS XL so who would ever buy a regular 3DS if they XL had a second pad?
I never said that.
Over dramatic? GAF?
NEVER!
Seriously though, there ARE ways around that. Maybe you can press in buttons located at the back, or they are next to L/R like ZL/ZR are on the original Classic Controller. But, yeah, those are probably the bigger reason to not stick the second stick on, because it either won't be an ideal way to use them or actively make the system too bulky. It's likely why the Vita decided the back touch pad was a better substitute for the second set of shoulder buttons.
That's for the XXL model.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
Don't think a lot of people would upset if they actually forsake those additional triggers, although it would atill cause an awkward situation but this whole thing is awkward as it stands.
This is a good point though.
Schobeleth
Member
Oh man, this is hilarious. To everyone wondering why they're doing this - as others have said it is all about avoiding fracturing their existing users by introducing a new model with new features exclusive to it like a second nub.
Before the 3DS and Vita started directly competing I kept saying that having dual sticks will make the difference with games that have third or first person maneuverable cameras but everyone said "meh whatever you can just use a d-pad, face buttons or the touch screen" - yeah if you don't want it to be as accurate or comfortable.
This is just my opinion but from my experience if the platform lacks mouse+keyboard or dual analog stick support the games will just avoid that type of experience, because it isn't feasible or comfortable from a playing standard. The DS was primarily games that focused on using the d-pad for movement yes?
The 3DS has only one nub by default, this limits the userbase and it also limits what developers can feasibly do because now for their games to be possible they need the person to own that peripheral. Case in point, Monster Hunter came with one. This eliminated that problem for Capcom but not every developer can do this as Nintendo was obviously desperate to pump some steam into their 3DS train by milking that Monster Hunter cash cow.
Say what you want about portables and gaming but having two sticks definitely makes the difference for games like Gravity Rush and Unit 13. I can't imagine playing those games and having to use the touch screen or the face buttons to manipulate the camera, it's just incredibly uncomfortable and awkward.
I'll reiterate that in a more concise manner - If you're just looking for a 2D or non-maneuverable camera experience like a SRPG or something, that type of control scheme is fine but if you want ANYTHING in first or third person that has a maneuverable camera and you want a comfortable, accurate set up, you need dual sticks or a mouse+keyboard.
Yes, platforms have done it with only one stick but ever since the standard has been raised I don't think we can go back to having one stick.
Before the 3DS and Vita started directly competing I kept saying that having dual sticks will make the difference with games that have third or first person maneuverable cameras but everyone said "meh whatever you can just use a d-pad, face buttons or the touch screen" - yeah if you don't want it to be as accurate or comfortable.
This is just my opinion but from my experience if the platform lacks mouse+keyboard or dual analog stick support the games will just avoid that type of experience, because it isn't feasible or comfortable from a playing standard. The DS was primarily games that focused on using the d-pad for movement yes?
The 3DS has only one nub by default, this limits the userbase and it also limits what developers can feasibly do because now for their games to be possible they need the person to own that peripheral. Case in point, Monster Hunter came with one. This eliminated that problem for Capcom but not every developer can do this as Nintendo was obviously desperate to pump some steam into their 3DS train by milking that Monster Hunter cash cow.
Say what you want about portables and gaming but having two sticks definitely makes the difference for games like Gravity Rush and Unit 13. I can't imagine playing those games and having to use the touch screen or the face buttons to manipulate the camera, it's just incredibly uncomfortable and awkward.
I'll reiterate that in a more concise manner - If you're just looking for a 2D or non-maneuverable camera experience like a SRPG or something, that type of control scheme is fine but if you want ANYTHING in first or third person that has a maneuverable camera and you want a comfortable, accurate set up, you need dual sticks or a mouse+keyboard.
Yes, platforms have done it with only one stick but ever since the standard has been raised I don't think we can go back to having one stick.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
Probably to save it for all the suckers with the next revision coming up.
That makes a lot of sense. Not that I was a complainer in the first place, but that sounds good.
Chuck Norris
Banned
Those are explanations, not reasonable explanations
I think people would be a bit upset about breaking compatibility in games already released if they dropped ZR and ZL, especially in a game like RE:R, where you need those buttons to shoot.
This is what I'm getting at. Of course me and you and everyone here would upgrade to a 3DS-2 stick upgrade, but when dad goes to by little Timmy something for his relatively (or possibly very new since they would still sell the vanilla) 3DS and buying something that requires 2 sticks...
Or buys something with two sticks in mind and original 3DSes get something gimped.
Add to that the original confusion of DS --> DSi --> 3DS that's already there and it's pretty ugly.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Erm, they just need to build an entirely new system with all that in.
Which they didn't.
Can't an update fix that?
I think they are more than reasonable.
Naked Snake
Member
Mine!
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
Fair, but how many games support it at this point? It would be really inelegant to break those games but if it would pave the way for more future games to be developed with a second stick in mind rather than what's gonna happen now I'd welcome it, but I can see why such a thing would stop such plans dead in their tracks.
JennyTablina
Member
Here's a question, How many Games on the 3DS actually NEED the circle pad to work?
The answer: none - all the current Circle Pad Pro compatible games will run perfectly fine without the CCP. In at least one case, all the CCP does is give you some control over the camera and nothing else. Doesn't stop it having potential, but Nintendo are clearly keen to stress it as an *option*, not a necessity for the system. I'ld be very surprised to see a single game that won't run without the CCP for that reason. Maybe if someone makes a game with 2 analogues essential to the gameplay, though I suspect Nintendo wouldn't be so keen on such an idea.
It's a shame there's no second stick, but in all honesty - Nintendo doesn't really do games that need 2 sticks anyway, that's more Sony's style as it were. CCP exists purely to satisy the third parties that wanted it as a control option. In the case of Kid Icarus, it was a plus. So it kind of makes sense that as an optional control option, it's not part of the new system. Let people choose how they play, rather than saddle everyone with the extra cost for CCP
The answer: none - all the current Circle Pad Pro compatible games will run perfectly fine without the CCP. In at least one case, all the CCP does is give you some control over the camera and nothing else. Doesn't stop it having potential, but Nintendo are clearly keen to stress it as an *option*, not a necessity for the system. I'ld be very surprised to see a single game that won't run without the CCP for that reason. Maybe if someone makes a game with 2 analogues essential to the gameplay, though I suspect Nintendo wouldn't be so keen on such an idea.
It's a shame there's no second stick, but in all honesty - Nintendo doesn't really do games that need 2 sticks anyway, that's more Sony's style as it were. CCP exists purely to satisy the third parties that wanted it as a control option. In the case of Kid Icarus, it was a plus. So it kind of makes sense that as an optional control option, it's not part of the new system. Let people choose how they play, rather than saddle everyone with the extra cost for CCP
way to completely miss the point, I specifically said "3DS" in all your quotes, not handheld. From that same post:
Im saying why would they want that when there's already the Vita, that is specifically tailored to do that, and with more horsepower (wich most of these types of games actually benefit from).
The DS thrived with games that were designed around it's unique gameplay possibilities. I dont understand why people need the follow-up to use a second analog stick that adds nothing you cant already do elsewhere, in better places. Do people really want that situation where we get a 3DS and a Vita version of a game where it's obvious the Vita version is way better and more suited?
Simulating an IR port internally? That's an interesting (i.e. not going to happen) hardware feature but let's imagine they did. Now a game uses the IR port, how does that work? If you touch the analog stick suddenly it's receiving IR signals it can't cope with (being an analog stick its actually reporting constantly, you don't exactly turn it off). The hardware doesn't know what the game wants.
You could change the implementation too and make it work naively. Now all CPP games are broken on 3DSXL. That doesn't help either.
If they did a native stick implementation all games using the CPP would have to be patched individually. Whether that's feasible for the parties involved is a good question and certainly that would create a compatibility nightmare for consumers.
StickSoldier
Member
They've already fucked over original 3DS owners, you expect them to fuck the whole 3DS user base again? I'd be pissed if I would need to buy another 3DS to have an extra slidepad built into it. It's better that they just don't do it in the first place.
KillerTravis
Banned
Why are you so bitter? Did you buy a Vita at launch?
He's a troll, just put him on ignore like 90% of GAF probably has.
I don't think they really fucked over the current 3DS audience except maybe in the fact this wasn't made an option immediately. There IS value in having a smaller system, even though I imagine many of us here would've opted for the bigger one in this case.
KillerTravis
Banned
Ok just did, thanks.
You can make the "better on Vita" argument about any game really. The 3DS' only real advantage, the 3D, isn't vital for any 3DS game (since you can turn it off). So the added horsepower could be argued for practically any game.
Maybe I just want Monster Hunter in 3D. Or Resident Evil goodies in street pass. Or maybe like most everyone who has a handheld, the idea of playing games on the go, whatever type and genre that may be is appealing.
This idea that having dual analog on a handheld will somehow stunt the handheld gaming experience is just one you've fabricated in you head.
hardly
Two screens. Not to mention the fact that we're yet to see a game that uses touch in a fundamental and essential way on the Vita (so far same ol iphone "swipe now!" minigame kinda stuff), and yes, the 3D as well, and the fact that you can turn it off doesnt make it vital? there's been games that are clearly designed to be played in 3D in order to fully appreciate them. They are designed to be viewed in 3D.
I never said that. Options are there: the CPP. What im saying is that the 3DS doesnt need one, as most people here have been claimoring.
Im more than fine with games taking new and cool approaches in order to fit the 3DS system. Does anyone think a game like Super Mario 3D Land would have been better with a third-person camera behind your back the whole time? Again: im all for games made for the platform WITH the platform in mind instead of games that are designed for "everything" and released on just one (inferior in that aspect even) console.
That is my opinion, and what I want out of the 3DS.
at the end of the day we agree to disagree, that's all.
LBP tells you to ssssh.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
lol, yes! SOLD
Now NOA just needs to announce some better colors and I'm getting an XL.
Now NOA just needs to announce some better colors and I'm getting an XL.
it's game that accomodates touch, a game that's been done before just fine without it.
dont get me wrong; im hardly a Vita hater and im all for the system getting more games that use its capabilities (specially the back-touch since I always found it super interesting), just saying that im disappointed by the offerings in that aspect so far.
The Vita is a great example of what I mean: a console with unique capabilities that so far barely uses them in order of more traditional, console-like games. That's not what I would want for the 3DS, so even if another stick would make a few games more tolerable for some: I dont think its a feature needed to be built-in, since it should never focus on those types of games. I think the CPP is there for those people.
I think it's very clear what's my stance by now and im tired of repeating it, lol
it's fine if people dont agree, im just baffled at the outcry.What you're suggesting would result in asking developers to design their games around three separate control schemes: 1) Single stick and shoulder buttons; 2) Two sticks and shoulder buttons; 3) Two sticks, shoulder buttons, and triggers. No one would bother with that mess.
They should have integrated a second stick into the original model to begin with, and this wouldn't have been an issue. They could have released a trigger/handle add-on to supplement the controls for those few developers who felt they needed them. But they didn't do that, and now we all just have to deal with the reality that Nintendo is not going to release a system with three separate control options and risk further confusing consumers and irritating developers.
JennyTablina
Member
Define this how? The worst crime Nintendo committed to the existing 3DS userbase was the poor performance/release list at the start of it's life, and the quick price cut to drive sales. Both of which kinda sucked to launch owners, but Nintendo pledged to make it right with more releases, and a ton of free games for early adopters, both of which they came good on. They even took a paycut and no bonuses to show how much the failure of the launch mattered to them. It should of been a success, but they admitted it was bungled and did what they could to make it up to the consumer.
In the end they have sorted it out, as now the 3DS has a pretty healthy release list for the rest of the year, even if some of the earlier announced titles still have a long way to go. You can't really fault Nintendo's eagerness to support and rescue the 3DS from the mess it was in.
If they really wanted to screw over consumers, they would of dropped the 3DS like a hot brick, or gone with that rumored less-3D redesign and model with the circle pad built in. But the XL holds true to the same design principle as the original - so it's as optional an upgrade as the DS models were. Maybe not even as major a step up as DS to DS Lite was.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
The triggers/grip are the best thing about the CPPro. I would want it all or nothing built in.
velvet_nitemare
Member
Bad planning, should have been built in.
sorijealut
Member
I have to say buying a new CPP is going to feel really stupid.
I'm gonna try to sell my old one with my 3DS...
I'm gonna try to sell my old one with my 3DS...
You don't own a Vita, so you're disappointed in offerings you haven't played to any long degree, nice. Games like Sumioni are touch essential (though Sumioni isn't really a good game, but that's the fault of the game's design not the touch interface), games like Resistance (again, not so much a good game) use touch to give precision that wouldn't be there with analog sticks, and games like LBP open the door to a whole new world of possible level creations with an interface that has never been in the franchise ever before.
As for the point being that LBP has been done elsewhere, well it's never been done as easily as this. You've always had to use analog sticks, or a Move controller. There was never direct feedback and control over what you were doing. Now there is, and as such it makes it a tonne easier for those who don't want to deal with a controller to make levels.
Oh boy.
Maximus.
Member
?
Yea well bring that to NA and Europe and BAM no excuses on people not having it...(unless they dont like the game, etc).
Ive seen impressions, played most of the big games for chunks of time, and heard a general outcry that seems in line with my opinion. It's not like im so off-base here. You mention two games.
What I meant is that it's not a game designed around touch. An experience that couldn't be done with buttons.
I know you're a big supporter of the console, im not trying to give you shit or trolling in the usual "lol Vita" ways. I still see big potential for the thing and I believe it's far from "over" as most people state. Future will tell.
I think it's very clear what's my stance by now and im tired of repeating it, lol
Do you think Nintendo made a mistake by including Wii Motion Plus with all their controllers and consoles after it's release?
Nintendo released a console in 2011 without a second analog and people commented on how that seemed to be a mistake. Nintendo announced games that clearly benefit from a second analog stick like RE, MGS3, Ace Combat, MonHun, ect and then showed off a really clumsy attachment to add in a second stick. And now Nintendo reveals a new 3DS with ample room to incorporate that awkward attachment and they don't.
To help you understand the outcry, people just want well designed hardware to play the games that are available for it. The CCP is not it.
I think they made a mistake on not properly supporting it after release. It was pretty useless (granted it still works with the WiiU)
As for the rest: you need to understand that im not disagreeing with you in that the games mentioned wouldn't benefit to some players from having a second analog stick: im trying to say that im baffled at people wanting those experiences out of the 3DS.
I couldnt care less for having an experience like any of those games (except monster hunter, for wich I think the CPP bundle is totally fine) on a handheld like the 3DS.
shira
Member
Lol
sorijealut
Member
But... but... Camera!
Great contribution there.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
...aaaaand it looks like I might be getting an XL after all