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[Tatsumi Oga]

I have no words for this. What the fucking hell is wrong with some people? The scary thing is that this can happen to anyone. You could be on a vacation to Germany and take the train and.....sigh. Of course the same goes for last week, you could have been in Nice at that moment.

Maybe it's just that the media is reporting much more this time around, but so far 2016 seems to be incredibly messed up. On top of this comes a shooting in the UK. Last week was Nice and police officers being killed in the US.

This fucking world man....really.

 

[Condom]

ISIS essentially caters the thug type. Many ISIS grunts in Syria and other countries aren't even particularly religious, but violent assholes and hardened criminals looking to earn some cash (yes, ISIS offers salaries as a recruiting tool, not just virgins) while terrorising people.

Many of them march towards the battlelines only to discover that they are not made for that life, so they either return to their homes even more fucked up or die in the process. The rest get actually radicalised along the way.

They also have this weird, troubling message that seems to be working among some outcasts and petty criminals. "Make a difference by killing every infidel who bothers you and you'll be rewarded in the afterlife" seems like an easy way out for desperate low life characters who otherwise would just quietly blow their heads off at home or die from alcohol/drug abuse.

They also prey on people who are concerned about social issues and injustice.

My roommate once downloaded one of those ISIS magazines (they have them in many languages) and it's insane how targeted the message is. They know exactly the things that their target audience wants to hear. You're a victim, nobody wants you/Muslims to be successful, join the state and here you'll actually be free while fighting western imperialism etc.

People who are easily influenced are just keep going to join them and doing attacks until we find a way to win the ideological war.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Firebombing refugees? Did I miss something here.

Dude, how do you not know?

There were a couple of incidents hold on ill link them

Edit:

Nvm funky papa posted one already

 

[Kill Your Masters]

ISIS preys on the weak minded and poor. The very definition of refugees right now. They dont even have to recruit directly, all it takes is some cheap propaganda you can find on the internet.

I walk past a lot of refugees when I go to my University as parts of the University building have been transformed to refugee shelters. They are basically just sitting around parks and public spaces, doing literally nothing. (never have I felt threatened or uncomfortable though, or seen or heard any incidents)

Then comes ISIS with promises of virgins and eternal life. If your current life sucks, the thought of a terrific afterlife probably sounds very appealing to people who have nothing in this.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

Dutch media reporting this was a 17 year refugee from Afghanistan. He used a knife and axe to hurt people in that train. Some very badly wounded. Good lord man.

Is this the media simply parotting social media or is it true? The attacker being 17 year old and a refugee?

 

[ClosingADoor]

Dude, how do you not know?

There were a couple of incidents hold on ill link them

Edit:

Nvm funky papa posted one already

My mind went towards fire bombings like in actual bombings from planes first, thought he was talking about things happening in Syria with that. Of course Assad is using barrel bombs there, which are just as bad probably.

The attacks on refugees in Germany are disgusting. Luckily nobody died in them, at least as far as I know.

 

[Kinyou]

Dude watched too much Raid 2

Dude.... People were almost murdered

 

[Liamc723]

Dutch media reporting this was a 17 year refugee from Afghanistan. He used a knife and axe to hurt people in that train. Some very badly wounded. Good lord man.

Is this the media simply parotting social media or is it true? The attacker being 17 year old and a refugee?

BBC News says yes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36832909

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

BBC News says yes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36832909

So what they said last year that among the countless refugees were several ISIS supporters,is really not that farfetched at all. It's quite clear now. A lot of people in my environment didn't want to believe it though. But amongst those many refugees are plenty of well meaning people too, plenty.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

After the boming close to Medina Mosque during Ramadan, ISIS lost its Islamic claim.

Looking further how such extremists are created, I always follow the trail and it ends with Political Islam.

UAE for instance had a low count of people joining ISIS due to criminalizing political Islam. Any "Religious" figure that is tied to politics or found out has a political connection is either jailed or kicked out.

The root cause analysis pin point toward mixing religion with politics as a main ingredient for creating such extremists.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

German media says there is nothing linking the perpatrator to ISIS. He probably self-radicalized from what we know so far.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

German media says there is nothing linking the perpatrator to ISIS. He probably self-radicalized from what we know so far.

Goddamn the media man. You just don't know what is true anymore. They are all jumping to conclusions. Last week was a good example with the Eiffeltower.


Sooooooo....no such flag was found after all? Sigh.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Hopefully the victims make it through.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

Goddamn the media man. You just don't know what is true anymore. They are all jumping to conclusions. Last week was a good example with the Eiffeltower.


Sooooooo....no such flag was found after all? Sigh.

Gotta generate more clicks.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Goddamn the media man. You just don't know what is true anymore. They are all jumping to conclusions. Last week was a good example with the Eiffeltower.


Sooooooo....no such flag was found after all? Sigh.

Flag was found. He scribbled it himself and they take it as a proof of his self-radicalization according to the article. However, so far nothing hints at him being in contact with anyone from ISIS or receiving orders of any sort.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Goddamn the media man. You just don't know what is true anymore. They are all jumping to conclusions. Last week was a good example with the Eiffeltower.


Sooooooo....no such flag was found after all? Sigh.

This is about wording here.
They found a self made ISIS flag but nothing indicates that he was actually in contact with ISIS => self radicalization.

 

[iPaul93]

Disgusting.This kid traveled so far to get to a better place,just to fuck up and get himself killed and hurt others.What was he thinking?

 

[Arials]

Sooooooo....no such flag was found after all? Sigh.

No they found the flag as well as a farewell letter to his father and some extremist writing. When they say no links to ISIS they mean no evidence he'd been sent to Germany by them or being in contact with a cell.

 

[danthefan]

No its not

Art 66 of the bavarian police law says that you can only use guns to disarm a person or hinder them from fleeing. A shot that with a high probability of killing someone is only allowed to prevent immediate danger to a life of another person and if there is no other way to prevent this.

A madman who'd just tried to murder a family on a train is clearly an immediate risk to the life of other people. He's running away, he meets someone on the street, what then? What the hell do you want here?

 

[Herb Alpert]

Apparently something happened in Gap (France). A man attacked with a knife a mother and her 3 daughters, seemingly because of the way they were dressed... Nothing has been proven concerning a djihadist motive, but this is quite concerning in the current context...

 

[ElTorro]

Sometimes I wish people would worry as much about this global wave of Islamist attacks, by both groups and individuals, as much as about the rise of the far-right. Maybe by worrying a bit more about it in a rational, objective, and non-inflamatory way, politicians could become electable to those who are voting for far-right demagogues simply because they are scared and see nobody else talking about the elephant in the room.

Add up the victims we had around the world this year and have a look at how this phenomenon manifests culturally and structurally around the world. This phenomenon can not be explained by alleged mental illnesses of a few lunatics.

To underscore this point, Renate Künast, a politician from Germany's Green Party, commented on Twitter about this incident, and her first concern apparently was that the police had killed the attacked instead of detaining him without lethal force. THAT was her primary political concern.

One does not have to wonder why an increasing number of people doubt the ability and willingness of such politicians to find effective solutions to this issue, or to even recognize the issue in the first place. The loss of voters over this topic is their own fault.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

To underscore this point, Renate Künast, a politician from Germany's Green Party, commented on Twitter about this incident, and her first concern apparently was that the police had killed the attacked instead of detaining him without lethal force. THAT was her primary political concern. One does not have to wonder why people doubt the ability and willingness of such politicians to find effective solutions to this issue, or to even recognize the issue in the first place.

Künast expressed sympathy for the victims first and wondered why the perpetrator had been shot. I don't see what's wrong with that. He was armed with an axe, so one can surely question how the police would get into a situation where lethal force was necessary.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

To underscore this point, Renate Künast, a politician from Germany's Green Party, commented on Twitter about this incident, and her first concern apparently was that the police had killed the attacked instead of detaining him without lethal force.

Would have been helpful for investigations if he would have stayed alive, espescially when this guy would have been part of a group.

 

[ElTorro]

Künast expressed sympathy for the victims first and wondered why the perpetrator had been shot. I don't see what's wrong with that. He was armed with an axe, so one can surely question how the police would get into a situation where lethal force was necessary.

I know that she cleared her throat with an obligatory sentence about the victims. That's why I wrote "her primary political concern". And if you don't see anything wrong with the fact that her first thought was that and not, for instance, the issue of radicalization, then you are making my point for me.

 

[Freezie KO]

To underscore this point, Renate Künast, a politician from Germany's Green Party, commented on Twitter about this incident, and her first concern apparently was that the police had killed the attacked instead of detaining him without lethal force. THAT was her primary political concern.

One does not have to wonder why an increasing number of people doubt the ability and willingness of such politicians to find effective solutions to this issue, or to even recognize the issue in the first place. The loss of voters over this topic is their own fault.

Reminds me of when the Mayor of Cologne blamed the victims of the mass sexual assault rather than touch the potential issue that the perpetrators could've been Arab or North African.

I fear for the EU. People will vote for their safety above all else, and if liberal parties don't talk about the immigration/integration problems, the far right and NeoNazi parties could make large gains.

 

[SporeCrawler]

A madman who'd just tried to murder a family on a train is clearly an immediate risk to the life of other people. He's running away, he meets someone on the street, what then? What the hell do you want here?

Im just explaing the law here. Germany has the right to live as a constitutional right so the conditions for rightful use of force are steep.

The police is investigating st the moment if the use of firearms was justified

 

[SporeCrawler]

To underscore this point, Renate Künast, a politician from Germany's Green Party, commented on Twitter about this incident, and her first concern apparently was that the police had killed the attacked instead of detaining him without lethal force. THAT was her primary political concern.

One does not have to wonder why an increasing number of people doubt the ability and willingness of such politicians to find effective solutions to this issue, or to even recognize the issue in the first place. The loss of voters over this topic is their own fault.

Its a valid point though.

They had him cornered and he was killed.

Law mandates you have to disarm him. Unless the police officers were unable to disarm him without bekng killed or hurt themselves the use of firearms may not be justified

Reminds me of when the Mayor of Cologne blamed the victims of the mass sexual assault rather than touch the potential issue that the perpetrators could've been Arab or North African.

I fear for the EU. People will vote for their safety above all else, and if liberal parties don't talk about the immigration/integration problems, the far right and NeoNazi parties could make large gains.

completely different story. In this case peole were actually injured and the assailant got killed. The state is supposed to capture criminals and put them to trial

 

[Imp the Dimp]

I know that she cleared her throat with an obligatory sentence about the victims. That's why I wrote "her primary political concern". And if you don't see anything wrong with the fact that her first thought was that and not, for instance, the issue of radicalization, then you are making my point for me.

At the point of her tweet no information other than the flag had surfaced. What was she supposed to comment on? We still don't know for certain how close his ties to ISIS were (and if there were any at all) and whether he had mental health issues. There is little to comment on so far because pertinent information is sparse. She correctly pointed out that having to lethally shoot someone who isn't armed with a firearm raises questions. According to police he attacked them but at what point did police get so close to him that he could threaten them enough for the police to have no other choice but shoot him dead? What kept them from incapacitating him?

 

[CheDominik]

To underscore this point, Renate Künast, a politician from Germany's Green Party, commented on Twitter about this incident, and her first concern apparently was that the police had killed the attacked instead of detaining him without lethal force. THAT was her primary political concern.

One does not have to wonder why an increasing number of people doubt the ability and willingness of such politicians to find effective solutions to this issue, or to even recognize the issue in the first place. The loss of voters over this topic is their own fault.

The whole refugee/migrant crisis showed me as a former Green Party voter that they are no longer electable. Everything they do or advocate for seems far removed from reality.

 

[ElTorro]

Its a valid point though.

They had him cornered and he was killed.

Law mandates you have to disarm him. Unless the police officers were unable to disarm him without bekng killed or hurt themselves the use of firearms may not be justified

Nobody was there. Before being able to even form an opinion about whether this is a valid complaint or not, commentators like Künast could have at least waited for the police report. It is incredibly naive to argue from a moral high ground about how the officers should have acted without knowing any details about the situation. It is also naive to think that officers are gunslingers who could easily have shot an armed, aggressive person in the foot.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

I know that she cleared her throat with an obligatory sentence about the victims. That's why I wrote "her primary political concern". And if you don't see anything wrong with the fact that her first thought was that and not, for instance, the issue of radicalization, then you are making my point for me.

But the perpetrator beeing alive would have been a big help in finding out about how his radicalization came about.

And since he was armed with a knive and a axe it certainly seems like it would have been a possibility to use non-lethal force. Of course that has to be determined in a proper investigation, looking at the circumstances.

But I don't think its wrong to ask this question. I even think its important that we constantly remind ourself of that standard, otherwise we might slip more and more into a state of mind where lives of criminals are seen as something not worth preserving at (almost) all cost, like in the US.

 

[ElTorro]

Would have been helpful for investigations if he would have stayed alive, espescially when this guy would have been part of a group.

But the perpetrator beeing alive would have been a big help in finding out about how his radicalization came about.

Come on guys.. Do you know Künast? Do you really think that this was her thinking, instead of a desire to moralize about the use of lethal force?

 

[Shiggy]

Its a valid point though.

They had him cornered and he was killed.

Law mandates you have to disarm him. Unless the police officers were unable to disarm him without bekng killed or hurt themselves the use of firearms may not be justified
completely different story. In this case peole were actually injured and the assailant got killed. The state is supposed to capture criminals and put them to trial

Yup, it's indeed a valid point. Though with the lack of non-police witnesses, such investigations might not bring out the truth. Nonetheless, the timing of her tweet was just pretty poor.

The whole refugee/migrant showed me as a former Green Party voter that they are no longer electable. Everything they do or advocate for seems far removed from reality.

May I ask, whom are you looking to vote for now? I don't see any party seriously trying to tackle the issues, though the leftist parties are probably furthest apart from reality.

 

[KingSnake]

I know that she cleared her throat with an obligatory sentence about the victims. That's why I wrote "her primary political concern". And if you don't see anything wrong with the fact that her first thought was that and not, for instance, the issue of radicalization, then you are making my point for me.

It's more difficult to find out what (and how) caused the radicalisation now with the attacker dead, isn't it?`

 

[SporeCrawler]

Nobody was there. Before being able to even form an opinion about whether this is a valid complaint or not, commentators like Künast could have at least waited for the police report. It is incredibly naive to argue from a moral high ground about how the officers should have acted without knowing any details about the situation. It is also naive to think that officers are gunslingers who could easily have shot an armed, aggressive person in the foot.

Not a matter of morals but a matter of law (Art. 66 of thr bavarian police act)

 

[blu]

Its a valid point though.

They had him cornered and he was killed.

Law mandates you have to disarm him. Unless the police officers were unable to disarm him without bekng killed or hurt themselves the use of firearms may not be justified

What are you arguing exactly here? Something as trivial as a man not dropping his cold weapon when ordered by the police, but instead either trying to run away or, worse, approaching them for melee engagement is already a darn good precondition for people getting badly hurt - the potential victims being either the bypassers across the street or the police themselves. It's not like one has to imagine some ultra contrived scenarios for this. All kinds of intoxicated people charge at police with knives, axes and god-knows-what on a daily bases around the world, and most such encounters end up with said people getting shot by the nearby police officers, sometimes fatally. But this time it's a kid with a deeply fucked up idea of after-life, so that must be handled specially?

 

[KingSnake]

Come on guys.. Do you know Künast? Do you really think that this was her thinking, instead of a desire to moralize about the use of lethal force?

So you propose a more rational approach on the politic side, but then you chose to focus on someone who doesn't have rational opinions on the matter anyhow by your own account? How does it work?

Rational means ignoring the extremes (on both sides) and try to find a solution on the middle ground, isn't it?

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Nobody was there. Before being able to even form an opinion about whether this is a valid complaint or not, commentators like Künast could have at least waited for the police report. It is incredibly naive to argue from a moral high ground about how the officers should have acted without knowing any details about the situation. It is also naive to think that officers are gunslingers who could easily have shot an armed, aggressive person in the foot.

You are moving the goalpost as you type. Künast's question is legitimate. Whether it is right or wrong to prioritize this exact matter as opposed to something else is up for debate but I don't see what's inherently wrong with what she says. Clearly, things would be easier right now if the perpetrator were alive and also, I'd be happier if Germany didn't approve of police shooting people in the face (or wherever the lethal shot connected) when confronted with a non-firearm threat.

Thankfully, to my knowledge every use of deadly force has to be examined and that's what's happening right now.

 

[ElTorro]

Not a matter of morals but a matter of law (Art. 66 of thr bavarian police act)

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deuts...-reaktion-und-erntet-shitstorm-a-1103632.html

Der Vorsitzende der Deutschen Polizeigewerkschaft warf Künast "Klugscheißerei" vor. "Wenn Polizisten in der Form angegriffen werden, werden sie sich nicht auf Kung Fu einlassen. Das endet dann bedauerlicherweise manchmal mit dem Tod des Täters, ist aber nicht zu ändern", sagte Rainer Wendt der "Saarbrücker Zeitung". Das Vorgehen der Polizisten werde nun von der Staatsanwaltschaft untersucht und dann werde ein Urteil gefällt. "Da brauchen wir die parlamentarischen Klugscheißer überhaupt nicht."

Das bayerische Landeskriminalamt nahm am Dienstag interne Ermittlungen auf. Dies sei ein üblicher Vorgang beim Schusswaffengebrauch von Beamten, so ein Sprecher. Die Ermittlung sollen klären, wie der Einsatz ablief und ob die Abgabe der tödlichen Schüsse gerechtfertigt war.

Bayerns Innenminister Joachim Herrmann (CSU) hatte erklärt, die Polizei habe den 17-Jährigen Täter erschossen, als dieser auf der Flucht auch Polizisten angriff. Man wisse nicht, welche Pläne der Täter noch verfolgt habe. Es sei nicht ausgeschlossen, dass er noch weitere Menschen attackiert hätte. Deshalb sei es "gut und richtig", dass die Polizei mit ihrem Vorgehen "weitere schreckliche Taten" ausgeschlossen habe.

 

[CheDominik]

May I ask, whom are you looking to vote for now? I don't see any party seriously trying to tackle the issues, though the leftist parties are probably furthest apart from reality.

I cant't believe I'm even saying this:
If the CSU was running in my state I would vote for them. But since that's not an option I might for Mutti for the first time. Ugh.

 

[ClosingADoor]

You are moving the goalpost as you type. Künast's question is legitimate. Whether it is right or wrong to prioritize this exact matter as opposed to something else is up for debate but I don't see what's inherently wrong with what she says. Clearly, things would be easier right now if the perpetrator were alive and also, I'd be happier if Germany didn't approve of police shooting people in the face (or wherever the lethal shot connected) when confronted with a non-firearm threat.

Thankfully, to my knowledge every use of deadly force has to be examined and that's what's happening right now.

Yes, it has to be examined. That is why politicians should shut up about it and not start asking questions, least of all on Twitter. An investigation is normal procedure. If anything strange comes up then about the killing of the suspect, they can start asking questions.

It isn't like Germany has a problem with police killing a lot of people without reason. So maybe have a little bit of faith in the police officers there who saw it necessary to shoot the man. I doubt they are happy about it also.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

I cant't believe I'm even saying this:
If the CSU was running in my state I would vote for them. But since that's not an option I might for Mutti for the first time. Ugh.

Merkel's refugee policy was approved by the Green Party and Die Linke (democratic socialism party) and virtually nobody else. What are you talking about? Might as well keep voting Green which I seriously doubt you ever did.

 

[ElTorro]

You are moving the goalpost as you type. Künast's question is legitimate. Whether it is right or wrong to prioritize this exact matter as opposed to something else is up for debate but I don't see what's inherently wrong with what she says. Clearly, things would be easier right now if the perpetrator were alive and also, I'd be happier if Germany didn't approve of police shooting people in the face (or wherever the lethal shot connected) when confronted with a non-firearm threat.

Thankfully, to my knowledge every use of deadly force has to be examined and that's what's happening right now.

I am not moving any goal posts, I am just responding to other people's opinions on specific things. Every single statement I have made stands. Including the one that I find it naive to think that Künast said what she said because she was concerned about the information the attacker might have given the police...

I cant't believe I'm even saying this:
If the CSU was running in my state I would vote for them. But since that's not an option I might for Mutti for the first time. Ugh.

I have never voted for conservatives, I do not intend to change that, but I certainly feel your frustration.

 

[cyberheater]

So has the been confirmed to be a terrorist attack?

 

[GAMEPROFF]

It is also naive to think that officers are gunslingers who could easily have shot an armed, aggressive person in the foot.

Would be useful for police officers to stay calm and be able to aim good.

Come on guys.. Do you know Künast? Do you really think that this was her thinking, instead of a desire to moralize about the use of lethal force?

Doesnt change a fact that it could have been useful. But its ok, you hate that tweet and you go now on and on and on on it.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deuts...-reaktion-und-erntet-shitstorm-a-1103632.html

Really unexpected that the boss of the police union and the ministry of the interior sides with the police.

And just to clarify that shit. I dont even care that much if they shot that guy or not. Maybe it was necessary. It doesnt change the smallest fact it would have been insanely usefull if they had tasered him or shot in his arm or something. And I think the way you are acting because of that stupid tweet is really ridicolus.

Aaaaaand I am out of this discussion.

 

[CheDominik]

Merkel's refugee policy was approved by the Green Party and Die Linke (democratic socialism party) and nobody else. What are you talking about? Might as well keep voting Green which I seriously doubt you ever did.

Not Merkel but there are voices in the party that are trying to change the policy. And Merkel is not the emperor of Gerrmany, she has to answer to her base somewhat.

 

[Lead]

So has the been confirmed to be a terrorist attack?

ISIS flags, shouting god is great, I don't know sherlock you tell me.

 

[ElTorro]

Doesnt change a fact that it could have been useful. But its ok, you hate that tweet and you go now on and on and on on it.

I don't simply "hate the tweet", I used it as an example for why parties are losing voters over this issue. But if everyone wants to ignore this dynamic that we are seeing on a European scale, be my guest. Far-right demagogues will be thankful.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

So has the been confirmed to be a terrorist attack?

No ties to ISIS have been found so far. DER SPIEGEL assumes self-radicalization. Based on that, I doubt this can be classified as a terror attack. Also, the medical history on the perpetrator has not been disclosed yet. He clearly sympathized with ISIS but whether that is enough to consider him a terrorist is something I'm not certain of.

 

[SporeCrawler]

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deuts...-reaktion-und-erntet-shitstorm-a-1103632.html

What Herman says there is appalling.

Under that premise police should be allowed to kill any murderer on sight as the murderer might kill other people.

We have a legal system and rule of law people.

A criminal will get a trial and get his punishment but killing a criminal is allowed only in absolute exceptions (e.g. Policemen or other people were attacked abd there was no way to disarm him)