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[Oreoleo]

... or because she was such a difficult patient they figured they'd take the whole lot while they were in there.

Spoiler

next time read

But WHY? They were removing the one tooth because she chipped it. Did the dentist think, "Oh well she MIGHT chip all these other teeth too so we might as well take em out while we're here *yoink*"

The fact he didn't have consent to do that and did it anyway absolutely fucking boggles my mind. If he hadn't done that, she wouldn't have been embarrassed or whatever of her teeth and wouldn't have stopped eating. Short of literally dragging their daughter to the hospital and giving her an IV there wasn't much the parents could do. And yeah, maybe they should have. But the (un-consented!) operation was the cause of the girls mental instability. The doctor should be taking the majority of the heat.

 

[KHarvey16]

But WHY? They were removing the one tooth because she chipped it. Did the dentist think, "Oh well she MIGHT chip all these other teeth too so we might as well take em out while we're here *yoink*"

The fact he didn't have consent to do that and did it anyway absolutely fucking boggles my mind. If he hadn't done that, she wouldn't have been embarrassed or whatever of her teeth and wouldn't have stopped eating. Short of literally dragging their daughter to the hospital and giving her an IV there wasn't much the parents could do. And yeah, maybe they should have. But the (un-consented!) operation was the cause of the girls mental instability. The doctor should be taking the majority of the heat.

Where did you get the idea he didn't have consent?

 

[lil smoke]

Some dentists do tend to be not too bright. Sad story.

 

[-viper-]

The parents should've slapped the girl because she chose to starve to death. That slap may have caused her to rethink about her plan of 'never opening mouth again', and may have begun eating food.

And then the parents should've got slapped by someone else for acting like a bunch of brainless fools. How on earth could you let your daughter go on a whole day let alone three fucking weeks without food?

 

[Dali]

But WHY? They were removing the one tooth because she chipped it. Did the dentist think, "Oh well she MIGHT chip all these other teeth too so we might as well take em out while we're here *yoink*"

The fact he didn't have consent to do that and did it anyway absolutely fucking boggles my mind. If he hadn't done that, she wouldn't have been embarrassed or whatever of her teeth and wouldn't have stopped eating. Short of literally dragging their daughter to the hospital and giving her an IV there wasn't much the parents could do. And yeah, maybe they should have. But the (un-consented!) operation was the cause of the girls mental instability. The doctor should be taking the majority of the heat.

Because he's the dentist whose authority is not to be questioned. He obviously knew what was best for the girl. Geez, you're starting to sound like her parents. No wonder he dumped them on the psychiatrist.

Where did you get the idea he didn't have consent?

They didn't realize they were consenting to all the teeth being removed.

 

[Rapping Granny]

*speechless*

He just wants attention, he does it everytime, says something contrevorsial so people can quote him.

 

[Hi-Def]

This situation was certainly mishandled, however to say the parents aren't idiots is laughable.

 

[Ceres]

But WHY? They were removing the one tooth because she chipped it. Did the dentist think, "Oh well she MIGHT chip all these other teeth too so we might as well take em out while we're here *yoink*"

The fact he didn't have consent to do that and did it anyway absolutely fucking boggles my mind. If he hadn't done that, she wouldn't have been embarrassed or whatever of her teeth and wouldn't have stopped eating. Short of literally dragging their daughter to the hospital and giving her an IV there wasn't much the parents could do. And yeah, maybe they should have. But the (un-consented!) operation was the cause of the girls mental instability. The doctor should be taking the majority of the heat.

Did you even read the article?

It didn't matter how many teeth they took out.

Ellis, the pediatrician, said Sophie had stopped eating when she had loose teeth in the past, and "it was clear there were psychological issues" around her refusal to eat.

 

[Oreoleo]

Because he's the dentist whose authority is not to be questioned.

So that means he get's free reign to do whatever he wants when he has a patient on the table? I don't think so dude.

Where did you get the idea he didn't have consent?

"The Wallers said they thought they were consenting to one tooth being removed."

 

[KHarvey16]

If you sign a consent form you don't understand it's still consent. These parents don't sound all that bright and it's not impossible they simply misunderstood.

 

[Snaku]

WHAAAAT!?

 

[Dali]

So that means he get's free reign to do whatever he wants when he has a patient on the table? I don't think so dude.

Yeah that last bit was sort-of tongue in cheek.

 

[Oreoleo]

If you sign a consent form you don't understand it's still consent. These parents don't sound all that bright and it's not impossible they simply misunderstood.

Very true, and you are probably right. I think there are plenty of details being left out of the article. But if it doesn't say the doctor had consent to pull all 7 teeth I'm going to assume he didn't.

 

[Zoe]

But WHY? They were removing the one tooth because she chipped it. Did the dentist think, "Oh well she MIGHT chip all these other teeth too so we might as well take em out while we're here *yoink*"

Baby teeth will come out eventually, and she was at the age where they start coming out naturally anyway. It's not uncommon for dentists to just "get it over with."

 

[Solideliquid]

If you sign a consent form you don't understand it's still consent. These parents don't sound all that bright and it's not impossible they simply misunderstood.

You couldn't be more wrong. When you sign a consent form you are giving a physician permission to do whatever is on the consent form and nothing else providing there isn't an emergency. Ex operating on a hernia and the surgeon notices a ruptured appendix he would remove it. That would be appropriate.

In this case if the dentist decided to remove her tonsils along with the one tooth the parents agreed to then that is obviously wrong because no permission was given for that "seperate" procedure. In this case the dentist made a deicision without consulting the parents. In this country that would amount to instant win in the lawsuit.

 

[Kal]

He just wants attention, he does it everytime, says something contrevorsial so people can quote him.

I had to take a breather before I quoted him. What I really wanted to post would've have gotten me permabanned. :lol What a shitty thing to say :/

 

[FightyF]

Sounds like both people are at fault here, the doctors and the parents.

The parents fail for not having any common sense ("Daughter's losing a ton of weight and hasn't eaten in 3 weeks...but the doctor said it's cool"), and the doctors fail for not understanding how serious the issue was ("You say your doctor hasn't eaten in 2 weeks? Well don't bring her here, go to a child psychologist...that kid is fucking weird.")

The issue is that people often put aside common sense when they trust people who they think know more about issues than they do. This applies to all aspects of life, whether it's medicine, psychology, religion, and even science.

 

[KHarvey16]

You couldn't be more wrong. When you sign a consent form you are giving a physician permission to do whatever is on the consent form and nothing else providing there isn't an emergency. Ex operating on a hernia and the surgeon notices a ruptured appendix he would remove it. That would be appropriate.

In this case if the dentist decided to remove her tonsils along with the one tooth the parents agreed to then that is obviously wrong. In this case the dentist made a deicision without consulting the parents. In this country that would amount to instant win in the lawsuit.

The dentist's point seems to be that the consent form was for the removal of all 8 teeth.

 

[gutter_trash]

Parent's fault.

nope, it's the dentist's fault, he is the dentist who is supposed to know the right and wrongs of dentistry

 

[Solideliquid]

The dentist's point seems to be that the consent form was for the removal of all 8 teeth.

Well here's the thing. Hopefully the parents kept a copy of the consent form. Now the point is I haven't looked at it. If the consent form says "to remove one tooth" obviously the dentist overstepped. However if the consent says something like "remove one tooth and possible more if needed" then OK he is right.

Reading the article it seems the dentist made a decision based on the probability of future problems with her baby teeth and since they would have fallen out anyway he may have assumed to take them all out at the same time. The problem with that is it's unethical to make these decisions without consent.

 

[Neo C.]

Everyone involved in this are idiots, including the dead girl.

This.

Tragedies happen, when anyone doesn't take responsibility for the child. It's too easy only to blame the parents, though they clearly lack common sense and trust way too much the experts who don't really care about the girl. Bitchslap for everyone.

 

[Somnid]

I've had upto 4 teeth removed at a time, it's not bad or even particularly painful. Seriously, it's the girl's problem. You can blame the parents because little girls get blame immunity but really to starve one's self to death from irrational fear is perhaps a good illustration of survival of the fittest. The parents are just clutching for anything to blame that's not them or their daughter. I think most parents would do the same though, that's just human nature. The whole problem could have been handled on the other end better too, but this sort of thing never happens so they probably didn't realize the seriousness.

 

[Solideliquid]

I've had upto 4 teeth removed at a time, it's not bad or even particularly painful. Seriously, it's the girl's problem. You can blame the parents because little girls get blame immunity but really to starve one's self to death from irrational fear is perhaps a good illustration of survival of the fittest. The parents are just clutching for anything to blame that's not them or their daughter. I think most parents would do the same though, that's just human nature. The whole problem could have been handled on the other end better too, but this sort of thing never happens so they probably didn't realize the seriousness.

WTF is wrong with you? We are talking about an EIGHT year old girl here. You know there is a big difference between getting four teeth taken out, but still having some when you look in the mirror and having none when you look the mirror.

Having absolutely no teeth can be very traumatic for anyone, more so for an eight year old who doesn't have a firm understanding of what is going on.

 

[KHarvey16]

Well here's the thing. Hopefully the parents kept a copy of the consent form. Now the point is I haven't looked at it. If the consent form says "to remove one tooth" obviously the dentist overstepped. However if the consent says something like "remove one tooth and possible more if needed" then OK he is right.

Reading the article it seems the dentist made a decision based on the probability of future problems with her baby teeth and since they would have fallen out anyway he may have assumed to take them all out at the same time. The problem with that is it's unethical to make these decisions without consent.

Why are you assuming he made this decision mid-operation? The article to me suggests the parents misunderstood the consent form.

 

[elektrikluv]

WTF is wrong with you? We are talking about an EIGHT year old girl here. You know there is a big difference between getting four teeth taken out, but still having some when you look in the mirror and having none when you look the mirror.

Having absolutely no teeth can be very traumatic for anyone, more so for an eight year old who doesn't have a firm understanding of what is going on.

I had 7 teeth taken out and you couldn't tell, as they were mostly back teeth. It wasn't traumatic for me, and I was 7 years old

 

[sedaku]

natural selection at work.

 

[Oreoleo]

WTF is wrong with you? We are talking about an EIGHT year old girl here. You know there is a big difference between getting four teeth taken out, but still having some when you look in the mirror and having none when you look the mirror.

Having absolutely no teeth can be very traumatic for anyone, more so for an eight year old who doesn't have a firm understanding of what is going on.

That's another thing the article is very vague on. It doesn't say whether or not she had any adult teeth yet. She didn't necessarily have no teeth, just none of her baby teeth.

Why are you assuming he made this decision mid-operation? The article to me suggests the parents misunderstood the consent form.

And why are you assuming he didn't? The article doesn't actually say one way or the other.

 

[lil smoke]

The issue is that people often put aside common sense when they trust people who they think know more about issues than they do. This applies to all aspects of life, whether it's medicine, psychology, religion, and even science.

Bingo Fighty.

 

[Solideliquid]

Why are you assuming he made this decision mid-operation? The article to me suggests the parents misunderstood the consent form.

Well that is a possiblity too. I'm not blaming the dentist for her death. I'm only saying if he operated outside the consent that was a bad decision but it had virtually nothing to do with her cause of death. Read my post on page one.

 

[Zoe]

WTF is wrong with you? We are talking about an EIGHT year old girl here. You know there is a big difference between getting four teeth taken out, but still having some when you look in the mirror and having none when you look the mirror.

I had 6 teeth pulled when I was FOUR or FIVE, and four of them were the front teeth on the top. And they didn't grow in again until 5th grade or so.

 

[jamesinclair]

Everyone involved in this are idiots, including the dead girl.

Exactly. The girl killed herself.
The parents didnt force feed her
The hospital didnt inject her
The fucking denist pulled all her teeth


Massive failure on everyones part

 

[methane47]

see.. this is when you need to give your child some good ole corporal punishment.... Parents need to take control man.... This is the parents fault defnitely for not being freaking Parents.. for letting the child determine their actions...

So freakin sad

 

[KHarvey16]

Well that is a possiblity too. I'm not blaming the dentist for her death. I'm only saying if he operated outside the consent that was a bad decision but it had virtually nothing to do with her cause of death. Read my post on page one.

I read your posts. Your reply to me was made under a likely false assumption, and that's what we're discussing now. I never suggested you place the blame for her death on the dentist.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Well that is a possiblity too. I'm not blaming the dentist for her death. I'm only saying if he operated outside the consent that was a bad decision but it had virtually nothing to do with her cause of death. Read my post on page one.

I did and it has nothing to do with socialised medicine, which is by and large brilliant for most people in this country. I see two things that led to this - the mother being reassured the girl could live by sucking on a watermelon (!) and being dismissed as though everything would be ok, AND the parents acceptance of that / their lack of urgency (their faith in that persons assessment essentially - even though they never saw the little girl). The fire alarm went off in my work's canteen today. We couldn't see, smell or hear fire but we got the fire brigade in anyway. Its just what you do. If your daughters not eating, you make her eat or you take her to someone who will help and don't stop until you're utterly convinced she's ok. Its just a tragedy.

One other thing comes to mind when people are accusing others of negligence in the case of a child's death here in the UK too -- Baby P. I can't help but feel that all these cases are now sensationalised stories where we must place a blame... when maybe thats not the right approach.

 

[Torquill]

(I'm going to hell for this, but...)

I blame the watermelon...

 

[bengraven]

What the fuck.

Is anybody guiltless in this?

- The doc pulling all the teeth for convenience and without consent
- The psychologist being completely pants-on-head retarded ("No food in weeks, weight plummeting? Nah, it's totally fine.")
- Parents do nothing while their child eats nothing for three weeks

Thread should have ended with this.

An 8 year old child is dead and everyone is to blame. I fucking hate this world.

 

[Regulus Tera]

I remember when I was a little kid my stomach was malfunctioning or something, so I had to take my food through my veins. Couldn't they just do the same here?

I mean, c'mon, it's pretty goddamn obvious the girl has to eat something someway.

 

[Ranger X]

I'm quite flabergasted by this story. How can something this ridiculous happen in this day an age?

I mean, you litterally need a TEAM of idiots to accomplish all of this. A team of professional and parents.

WTF.

 

[Solideliquid]

I read your posts. Your reply to me was made under a likely false assumption, and that's what we're discussing now. I never suggested you place the blame for her death on the dentist.

I supposed you meant that even if the parents signed a consent for one tooth the dentist could pull all eight. I may have misunderstood your post my apologies if I did.

 

[Replicant]

The dentist chose convenience and their precious time over handling the girl's case on a problem by problem basis (in this case 1 tooth instead of 7 teeth all at once). Even an adult sometimes hesitant to have more than 2 teeth pulled out in one go. He took 7 of the teeth's kid and didn't even consider how this could affect her psyche. That is his/her mistake. Ditto with the doctor/psychologist, they underestimated the severity of a patient's pain, or in this case, mental anguish.

The parent don't seem to have strong parental skills that allows them to persuade/force the child to eat. They could have used discipline or although not recommended, persuaded to buy her something she wants if she'd eat/drink once in a while. And I don't understand what stopped them from taking her to a hospital to have food transfusion before it's too late? Surely even 2-3 days without food is enough to alarm any parent?

I can't blame the child as stubborn as she was. She's just a child. And you might have been stronger as a kid but you =! as everyone else. Losing teeth can be hard for anyone. For most adult, it takes around 1 week after teeth extraction before they can resume normal eating pattern (especially eating hard to chew foods). This is frustrating and can be a bit depressing especially when the essential teeth that you use to chew have been taken out. Not to mention the lack of the teeth itself can be demoralizing if you're a kid and have to endure the daily teasing at the school.

 

[kaizoku]

At some point in time they should have come to the realization that people cannot survive through photosynthesis and made sure that their child got some sort of sustenance that day be it through force feeding or IV. If your doctors are jerking you around go to a hospital and say "hey my daughter hasn't eaten in X amount of days, I think this isn't right".

This.

I'd be screaming at my child if they refused toe at for one or even two days. To the point of starvation? wtf?

Did she just collapse one day and die? At what stage did they stop and think, uh oh...maybe we should get her to the hospital?

Hospital was shitty as well. FFS. What a waste of a precious life.

 

[Solideliquid]

The dentist chose convenience and their precious time over handling the girl's case on a problem by problem basis (in this case 1 tooth instead of 7 teeth all at once). Even an adult sometimes hesitant to have more than 2 teeth pulled out in one go. He took 7 of the teeth's kid and didn't even consider how this could affect her psyche. That is his/her mistake. Ditto with the doctor/psychologist, they underestimated the severity of a patient's pain, or in this case, mental anguish.

The parent don't seem to have strong parental skills that allows them to persuade/force the child to eat. They could have used discipline or although not recommended, persuaded to buy her something she wants if she'd eat/drink once in a while. And I don't understand what stopped them from taking her to a hospital to have food transfusion before it's too late? Surely even 2-3 days without food is enough to alarm any parent?
.

The article states the parents contacted the hospital and explained the child hasn't eated in some time. THe hospital told them not to come in and instead to go see the child psychologist.

 

[Replicant]

The article states the parents contacted the hospital and explained the child hasn't eated in some time. THe hospital told them not to come in and instead to go see the child psychologist.

They should have gone to other hospital, ask another doctor for second opinion/help. In this day and age, I wouldn't trust the opinion of one doctor/hospital not when there are multitude of them. This is their child's lives at stake. What's important here is giving the kid food first, then they can worry about influencing her attitude towards food. Regardless of what the hospital said, they need to have some sustenance into the girl's body either through normal means (which was not possible) or IV. The first hospital rejected them. Find other hospital or insist on it.

 

[diunxx]

*speechless*

She killed herself because they took out the rest of her baby teeth.

I consider that a very idiotic reason to kill yourself.

 

[Big-E]

She obviously had some liquid or she would have been dead in days so it was not like she wasn't ingesting anything. You telling me they couldn't get the girl to have a milkshake or something? Retardation all around but these parents are in the running for dumbest people on the planet.

 

[elektrikluv]

The article states the parents contacted the hospital and explained the child hasn't eated in some time. THe hospital told them not to come in and instead to go see the child psychologist.

Then they go to A&E! What the hell, if it was my kid I don't give a shit what the hospital tells me, she must have been skeletal if she hadn't eaten for a few weeks, I'd go to A&E after a few days

 

[valparaiso]

holy spoony at the parents. how can you let your child starve to death right before your eyes?

doctors, etc. have nothing to do with this. i mean, you have to be really, really barding stupid to let this happen.

 

[Panda Bear]

She killed herself because they took out the rest of her baby teeth.

I consider that a very idiotic reason to kill yourself.

Is this a serious post?

 

[pnjtony]

National Healthcare FTL?

 

[jax (old)]

The parents are idiots, holy shit.

this.