Yes. The roving bands of sexual marauders. I'm certain that's more likely than questioning an obviously questionable study. Statistical outliers no longer matter, I guess. PEACE.
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90% of Women, LGBT Harrassed While Biking in DC
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Yes. The roving bands of sexual marauders. I'm certain that's more likely than questioning an obviously questionable study. Statistical outliers no longer matter, I guess. PEACE.
Devolution
Member
People who street harass tend to keep doing it because they can. Is this news to you?
Other studies I linked to earlier in the thread show similar numbers, although it varies by area and group. But the study never said that 90% of guys harass women. It says that 90% of women are harassed. Same way that the number of female sexual assault victims is much higher than the number of male sexual assailants.
User 100115
Banned
Again, considering I am sure that every single woman on this board has been harassed on the street at some point, your insistence that it doesn't actually happen is incredibly suspect.
No. It's news to me that any group can manage a 90% penetration rate. Pun partly intended, but that's some very efficient harassment. PEACE.
Where'd I say it doesn't happen? PEACE.
Devolution
Member
There aren't tons of bike paths or routes. It's not like it's 90% say every day. Just that it has happened. I bet you could get similar numbers off women in general.
You should try adding "PEACE" to the end of your posts...I think it might be the only way he'll understand you. PEACE.
It's really not that hard to believe. A single guy can harass several people in a day, and hundreds in a year.
User 100115
Banned
You keep trying to downplay it. As you do about stuff in every thread about rape, sexual harassment, and the like. It's as if you are trying to pretend the problem isn't actually a problem, because you can't face the reality of it. Which is incredibly upsetting to those that have to actually experience and deal with the problem.
Your posts in this thread are basically 'lol guys are gunna flirt, that's not harassment, women need to get over it.'
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
I wouldn't have been surprised if the figure was 100%. Anyone who cycles enough to consider themselves a cyclist (I assume the survey was targetted at cyclists, but IDK) has probably been harassment at least once due to the amount of times they've ridden, and the amount of douchebags out there.
It does? I need to get out more and learn about the outside world
No, my response is the same. This study sounds ridiculous. If I made a study that 100% of black people have experienced racism on bike paths, it would be true if I applied it over such a general scenario as undetermined time and undetermined severity. It would be just as worthless in application, as well, since that same 100% could apply to any walk of life. That article was very thin on details, but hey, let's not call into question something so vague that attributes such a high percentage to such a strong topic. PEACE.
You've made it pretty clear, at least to me, that you don't consider honking and whistling, honking and jeering, yelling untoward sexual comments or insults (all of which has happened to me, a man, personally) to be sexual harassment. In that case, you're having a completely different conversation than the rest of the thread has had.
User 100115
Banned
I was just pointing out that you seem to call into question EVERYTHING like this. It's a pattern, and one that is often seen in discussions about women and the things that plague them. You are not the only one that does it, but since you were so vehement about your 'this study is bullshit cause I say so' stance, I felt compelled to point it out.
kame-sennin
Member
You're a bad person and you should feel bad.
My ex lived in NYC. She used to tell me stories about the shit she heard. She was harassed on a monthly, if not weekly, basis. And there is no doubt what she experienced was harassment. The comments were often explicit and creepy. She even had one guy come up behind her and whisper in her ear while she was on the subway platform. Even more disturbing, all her friends have experienced the creepy whispering thing.
Anecdotally speaking, I don't know even ONE woman who has not experienced street harassment in her life, so the 90% figure is not hard to believe.
I mentioned that my roommate knows someone who does this shit. This man is notorious for his behavior. He does it constantly to almost any woman he sees on the street. It's really not hard for a minority of men to harass the majority of women.
Nor, as our boy Pimp keeps demonstrating, is it hard for the slime balls to find an ally gunna wave their shit off.
I make no bones about my viewpoint on some of these issues. I'm not as PC as some of you, and I'm not afraid to say it. PEACE.
Devolution
Member
Treating women not like shit is so PC. There it is. Thanks bro.
ITT, Pimpwerx won't express himself without resort to laconic one-liners he can tag "PEACE" onto the end of, defends his self-inflicted deficiency as mere difference of opinion.
User 100115
Banned
I don't understand why wanting to deal with the very real issues of rape and harassment is suddenly 'being PC'. Treating people like, I dunno, PEOPLE, is not 'that liberal PC bullshit'. Thanks.
kame-sennin
Member
If you want to admit that you engage in this behavior, now would be the time.
And what's treating women like shit? That's the question. I'd love to know where the threshold is where awkward advances become harassment. That comes down to the definition of harassment. That's where the PC aspect of this comes into play, and where a study like this (at least to the level it's revealed) falls short.
You have shit opinions. Ooh, I feel so much better about myself now. I don't care if people agree or disagree. I say what I feel, and I try to support it however I can. Don't agree? Great. So we don't see something the same way. That's part of life. PEACE.
On this issue specially, you've made it about your own personal definition of sexual harassment, and haven't taken the conversation anywhere. Unlike Fiction, I couldn't comment on your behavior in women's issue threads, but for this thread, I'm not surprised you weren't "afraid" considering that your thinking and experience is on an entirely different, and not positive, plane.
Because no one questions the things they do, amirite? PEACE.
Necromanti
Member
If respecting women as human beings and taking people's issues to heart--rather than telling them to put up with it and, what, know their place?--is "being PC", then I question what sort of person would champion the rejection of such an ideal. It's harassment if someone feels harassed. Wanting to feel safe is asking too much.
Devolution
Member
Treating women in this way is treating them like shit yes. We don't exist for people to yell sexually crude shit at us. I don't need to hear how fuckable I am getting on the bus, I don't need to hear wolf-whistling outside my own fucking window. How about some people just stop being huge assholes? There's nothing particularly picky or "politically correct" about just wanting DECENCY.
PEACE.
Check out the last page there's some breakdowns. Also follow the links in the story.
Maybe some of you haven't met Pimp before. Cut down for highlights:
"If I was raped I would only blame myself. This isn't victim blaming."
User 100115
Banned
No see, that's just flirting. If you have a problem with it, you're just a prude. Or a manhating feminazi.
I would love for him to lay out a common situation in which "hitting on" could be misconstrued by a significant number of people as sexual harassment or why the studies definition of sexual harassment isn't valid.
Dude is presumably a grown-ass man who's graduated from college but doesn't personally know what constitutes harassment. I mean.
This thread is sort of derailing into "look at this asshole" but I think it's relevant to the topic. This kind of harassment is pervasive and here is why: this dude is doing it or creating a world in which men feel comfortable doing it.
Please don't misquote me. Take quotation marks off if you're going to paraphrase.
Keep ignoring personal responsiblity and blaming the world for being a fucked-up place. It's not going to fix the problem. Drinking is dangerous, period. The issue of drunken consent is a very blurry one, pun intended. Particularly when both parties are drunk. It's something that applies to both genders, and the dangers of the initial act always get overshadowed due to consequences of the resulting act. PEACE.
User 100115
Banned
So the solution, in your head anyhow, is either to never ever drink, or only drink with people you trust, I assume? Considering most rapes are committed by someone the victim trusts, I don't see how that helps. At all.
I've said it before, but if you went out and got drunk, and woke up and discovered you'd been penetrated during anal sex with a man, you wouldn't, I dunno, feel victimized? Or would you shrug it off and be like 'Welp, I guess I shouldn't have drank that much, my fault!'
All situations (and women) are quite different, but I'm saying that whether something is harassment at all often depends on whether the guy is hot or not. Whether the attention is wanted or not.
If the guy/girl is hot, many women/men want the attention...ergo, it's not harassment. If the guy/girl is NOT hot, many women/men do NOT want the attention...ergo, it's harassment. Whether flirting is harassment depends entirely upon how said flirting is received. And oftentimes how said flirting is received depends on how the person doing the flirting is received.
In that post you said directly "I wouldn't blame anyone else but myself for the resulting fallout." and "This isn't victim blaming." So the quotes stand.
User 100115
Banned
No. 1000x no. You have no idea what you are talking about. There is a huge difference between 'flirting' and 'harassment', and it has NOTHING to do with how attractive the person is. If a Cumberbatch lookalike started shouting 'Hey baby, work it, let's see that ass!' at me in the street, I'd be uncomfortable and upset.
fabricated backlash
Member
@bolded: That sounds quite unrealistic wouldn't you agree?
Underage drinking is illegal. The first thing impaired is judgement. What's that tell you about the murkiness of the situation? As someone who has a drinking problem, the best solution is always to abstain. I didn't say it was for all situations, or even most situations. I only spoke about the case where someone has consenting sex and then the next day someone regrets their decision, or is embarrassed by it. It related to an exchange between two other people previously in the thread. Hence, why I asked to take off the quotation marks. Context helps, like in anything. PEACE.
JesseEwiak
Member
Being 'hot' may get you in the door, or make somebody willing to talk to you, but if you're a total asshole or weird, you're still going to get tossed aside within a few minutes. It's not the hotness that's their advantage, it's that they can make conversation so when you walk by an hour later, you hear an off color joke from him and say to yourself, "see, if I said that to her, she'd throw a drink in my face and write on her twitter about how she was sexually harassed."
There's not a difference according to many in this thread. A single, unwanted instance of flirting is considered harassment to some.
Devolution
Member
Hey thanks for missing the point on purpose.
Necromanti
Member
Considering this is happening to women on bikes, though, there's not really an ample opportunity to have a conversation or flirt with someone without it encroaching upon harassment territory. It's not like these are people mingling at a social gathering.
And how many of those who swear up and down that there isn't a difference actually has to deal with harassment outside of a thought experiment?
User 100115
Banned
You're younger than 21? Huh.
Well, in my example, the guy says you were DTF. Are you just going to be like 'Oh, then it's my fault!'? Even though (if you aren't gay) that would be something you'd never in a million years do sober? Or even if you are gay, he was someone you'd never sleep with, or you disliked bottoming?
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