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[KingdomHeartsFan]

So let’s start from the beginning FF Versus 13 was revealed in 2006 for the PS3 with Nomura as the director. The game was NOT in full development when it was revealed, it was obviously revealed way too early. The game was coming along very slowly because, as revealed by SE, staff were taken off the Versus 13 team and made to work on FF13 which released in 2009. Staff was also taken off the team to work on the FF14 relaunch. So here you have a game that was never in full development and yet staff was taken off the team twice to help develop two other games. Also during this time from 2006-2012 before the game entered full development the director, Nomura, also put out 4 KH games and helped in the development of 10 other games, whether it was creative producer or character designer or whatnot.

Fast-forward to 2012, the game had to be switched to the PS4/X1 and the Type-0 team was added to the FFXV development team and in Dec 2012 Tabata was made the co-director of the game. At E3 2013 the game was re-revealed and was re-branded as FFXV. In 2014 it was revealed that the game had a staff of 200-300 people developing it. Tabata became the head director in Dec 2013 and at that time they decided the release date would be Sept 2016. That’s right they decided the release month 3 years before hand, I know it sounds hard to believe but it’s straight from Tabata’s mouth.

Now I know Tabata gets some slack for changing Versus 13 and cutting some content like the invasion and putting it into a movie, but when you think about it he knew he had less than 3 years to get the game out after he became director, he had to realistically look at what could be done and what could not be done and that invasion looked huge and like it would take a while to make. Also just look at the man, it looks like he’s aged 10 years, he was killing himself to try to get this game out in time.

As for the people that blame FF Versus 13’s lack of progress on Nomura I hope now you realize how ridiculous that sounds. The man was not given a full team to make the game, staff was taken from his team twice, and he was working on several other games in that time.

I don’t think there needs to be an explanation of FFXV’s development from there because Tabata has had his active time reports and been pretty open about it. I hope this helps give some insight on FFXV’s development and helps to alleviate some of the ignorant Nomura and Tabata posts we get here about blaming the long development on Nomura when it was out of his control or blaming Tabata for changing Nomura’s vision when he had less than 3 years to get the game out.
http://www.gamespot.com/gallery/a-look-back-at-final-fantasy-15s-troubled-past/2900-236/
http://gematsu.com/2014/09/final-fantasy-xv-director-talks-development-open-world-combat-demo
http://www.wired.co.uk/article/final-fantasy-interview
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetsuya_Nomura
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Development_of_Final_Fantasy_XV#cite_note-geint-2

 

[AuthenticM]

Good post. Indeed, what happened to Versus was the result of circumstances. If Square had not messed up with Crystal Tools, and with FFXIV, the game would be out.

 

[RedlineRonin]

Good quick read.

I like tabata a lot. He's been very transparent about the development and say what you want about type zero, and I'm sure XV will have its flaws too, but at least he is shipping the games.

Nomura on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. I haven't played a lot of the stuff he's helmed, like KH. And he was lead on the 13 games yes? Man, 13 was acceptable, 13-2 I played because of the Pokemon mechanic in spite of almost everything else, including the plot and characters, and 13-3 LR? Never even bothered as that game had so little appeal it's not even funny.

I'm kind of glad I wasn't on board from 2006 and only really started to care about this game after the re-reveal.

Still, you make a great underlying point about how overworked devs are, and it still blows my mind how little respect people have for that.

Good post.

 

[Renekton]

FFXV - Restrospective

 

[brawly]

What's the excuse for getting rid of the Yakuza-with-swords vs. Knights-with-guns? It still hurts.

 

[Eylos]

The Leviathan part is not part of the invasion? If it is and is not in the game i'm sad((

 

[Whompa02]

The Leviathan part is not part of the invasion? If it is and is not in the game i'm sad((

Different cities I believe.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

The Leviathan part is not part of the invasion? If it is and is not in the game i'm sad((

Unless I've totally misunderstood over the years, there's the invasion of Insomnia, which used to be the opening, and now takes place during Kingsglaive, and there's an attack on Altissia, which is where the Leviathan stuff happens, and these are totally separate events.

Only the opening attack on Insomnia has been cut from the game from what I've seen.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

Regardless of this game centric view what's the reason for having the games director work on more than one high value project (kh3) at the same time. Square announced so many games and wasted time building two engines that they have nothing to show for it.

 

[JuanLatino]

double post - sry

 

[JuanLatino]

Thank You for this Thread - The Nomura hate and shitposts in the past years became ridicolous

Regardless of this game centric view what's the reason for having the games director work on more than one high value project (kh3) at the same time. Square announced so many games and wasted time building two engines that they have nothing to show for it.

while Nomura is the director of KH3,, Tai Yasue is doing most of the work (while Nomura is probably focussing more on FF7)

 

[silva1991]

Good quick read.

I like tabata a lot. He's been very transparent about the development and say what you want about type zero, and I'm sure XV will have its flaws too, but at least he is shipping the games.

Nomura on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. I haven't played a lot of the stuff he's helmed, like KH. And he was lead on the 13 games yes? Man, 13 was acceptable, 13-2 I played because of the Pokemon mechanic in spite of almost everything else, including the plot and characters, and 13-3 LR? Never even bothered as that game had so little appeal it's not even funny.

I'm kind of glad I wasn't on board from 2006 and only really started to care about this game after the re-reveal.

Still, you make a great underlying point about how overworked devs are, and it still blows my mind how little respect people have for that.

Good post.

He only designed some characters in 13 man and nothing else iirc.

KH 2 is one of the best action games yet let alone ARPGs. give it a try.

 

[rikucrafter]

Good quick read.

I like tabata a lot. He's been very transparent about the development and say what you want about type zero, and I'm sure XV will have its flaws too, but at least he is shipping the games.

Nomura on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. I haven't played a lot of the stuff he's helmed, like KH. And he was lead on the 13 games yes? Man, 13 was acceptable, 13-2 I played because of the Pokemon mechanic in spite of almost everything else, including the plot and characters, and 13-3 LR? Never even bothered as that game had so little appeal it's not even funny.

I'm kind of glad I wasn't on board from 2006 and only really started to care about this game after the re-reveal.

Still, you make a great underlying point about how overworked devs are, and it still blows my mind how little respect people have for that.

Good post.

Nomura was character designer for 13, he had very little to do with its overall direction. The leader of that debarcle was Toriyama

 

[Eylos]

Unless I've totally misunderstood over the years, there's the invasion of Insomnia, which used to be the opening, and now takes place during Kingsglaive, and there's an attack on Altissia, which is where the Leviathan stuff happens, and these are totally separate events.

Only the opening attack on Insomnia has been cut from the game from what I've seen.

That's a relief to hear, that part is pure hype for me.

 

[Koozek]

Good post, OP, but one thing you missed: Versus actually was in full development from 2010/2011 until 2012 and in the end, when Tabata came on board in mid-2012 and made the next-gen prototype we saw at E3 '13, Versus was around 20-25% done.

“It’s a little bit rough, but in terms of how much it had progressed in terms of development, Versus XIII was around 20 to 25 percent,” Tabata said. “In terms of character designs or visuals, nothing really had been fixed at that point. We were still working on updating it and revising those designs.”​

Good quick read.

I like tabata a lot. He's been very transparent about the development and say what you want about type zero, and I'm sure XV will have its flaws too, but at least he is shipping the games.

Nomura on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. I haven't played a lot of the stuff he's helmed, like KH. And he was lead on the 13 games yes? Man, 13 was acceptable, 13-2 I played because of the Pokemon mechanic in spite of almost everything else, including the plot and characters, and 13-3 LR? Never even bothered as that game had so little appeal it's not even funny.

I'm kind of glad I wasn't on board from 2006 and only really started to care about this game after the re-reveal.

Still, you make a great underlying point about how overworked devs are, and it still blows my mind how little respect people have for that.

Good post.

No. That was Toriyama.

 

[RedlineRonin]

No. That was Toriyama.

Ahhhhh, okay. Apologies to Nomura. We cool.




But Toriyama.....

 

[Koozek]

Ahhhhh, okay. Apologies to Nomura. We cool.




But Toriyama.....

"NeoGAF in real life - Motomu Toriyama Haters ATTACKING FF13 FANS!!!"

 

[JuanLatino]

Nomuras Involvement in Major Projects since 2005 (when Versus got announced)


2006 - Dirge of Cerberus (Character Designer)
2006 - The World Ends with You (Creative Producer/Character Designer)
2006 - Crisis Core Final Fantasy (Creative Producer/Character Designer)
2008 - Kingdom Hearts Coded (Director)
2008 - Dissidia Final Fantasy (Creative Producer/Character Designer)
2009 - Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days (Director)
2010 - Final Fantasy 13 (Main Character Designer)
2010 - Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep (Director)
2010 - Kingdom Hearts Re:coded (Director)
2011 - Dissidia 012 Final Fantasy (Creative Producer/Character Designer)
2011 - Final Fantasy Type-0 (Creative Producer/Character Designer)
2011 - Final Fantasy XIII-2 (Main Character Designer)
2012 - Theatrhythm Final Fantasy (Creative Producer)
2012 - Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance (Director)

and those aren't even all

 

[decoyplatypus]

I still haven't read a good account of what design work could and could not have been done during the period when Versus was not in full development. It's one thing to say that Nomura was not responsible for Versus's delays, but if the game's story and systems should have been in a far more settled state, notwithstanding the lack of staff and development resources, then it seems silly to pretend Nomura's management had nothing to do with the history of FFXV.

 

[MilkBeard]

It becomes apparent when you see the bigger picture, that Final Fantasy Versus XIII always got the short end of the stick because of SE's incompetency with XIII, XIV 1.0 and Crystal Tools.
People think that Versus XIII was also a disaster of development, but we haven't really seen any evidence for that. The game barely had a chance to be developed in the first place. And the fact that FF XV was developed in such a short time after the change, and alongside Luminous Studios' development to boot, I would say that it went much more smoothly. I think people will be surprised by SE now that Luminous is complete. I don't think that Luminous is the disaster that many people think it is.

 

[RedlineRonin]

"NeoGAF in real life - Motomu Toriyama Haters ATTACKING FF13 FANS!!!"

Fantastic. This made my morning. To evenly spread some of the shit tho, lightning's design was some pandering ass shit, esp in the later games.

Either way, I'm hoping for great success for all things FF (world even looks fucking adorable) so the brand can return to greatness and all these guys get the kudos they deserve

 

[Koozek]

I still haven't read a good account of what design work could and could not have been done during the period when Versus was not in full development. It's one thing to say that Nomura was not responsible for Versus's delays, but if the game's story and systems should have been in a far more settled state, notwithstanding the lack of staff and development resources, then it seems silly to pretend Nomura's management had nothing to do with the history of FFXV.

According to Nomura the script already was done in 2010. But Tabata said designs weren't fixed in 2012 when he came on board.

Good post, OP, but one thing you missed: Versus actually was in full development from 2010/2011 until 2012 and in the end, when Tabata came on board in mid-2012 and made the next-gen prototype we saw at E3 '13, Versus was around 20-25% done.

“It’s a little bit rough, but in terms of how much it had progressed in terms of development, Versus XIII was around 20 to 25 percent,” Tabata said. “In terms of character designs or visuals, nothing really had been fixed at that point. We were still working on updating it and revising those designs.”​

 

[JuanLatino]

Good post, OP, but one thing you missed: Versus actually was in full development from 2010/2011 until 2012 and in the end, when Tabata took over in.

hmm according to Nomura it wasn't in full Production by 2011

Versus XIII is still in the pre-production phase, though Nomura says that the team is making preparations to enter full production.

Source: http://www.novacrystallis.com/2012/07/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-development-timeline-outlined-in-gameinformer/

 

[SprachBrooks]

Good quick read.

I like tabata a lot. He's been very transparent about the development and say what you want about type zero, and I'm sure XV will have its flaws too, but at least he is shipping the games.

Nomura on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. I haven't played a lot of the stuff he's helmed, like KH. And he was lead on the 13 games yes? Man, 13 was acceptable, 13-2 I played because of the Pokemon mechanic in spite of almost everything else, including the plot and characters, and 13-3 LR? Never even bothered as that game had so little appeal it's not even funny.

I'm kind of glad I wasn't on board from 2006 and only really started to care about this game after the re-reveal.

Still, you make a great underlying point about how overworked devs are, and it still blows my mind how little respect people have for that.

Good post.

That was Toriyama.

 

[Koozek]

hmm according to Nomura it wasn't in full Production by 2011



Source: http://www.novacrystallis.com/2012/07/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-development-timeline-outlined-in-gameinformer/

I wasn't sure if you could count 2010 as "full production" myself (that's why I wrote "2010/2011"), but I kinda still included it because the stuff we've seen in the 2011 trailer must've been developed in 2010, surely, and it looked quite meaty.

 

[valkyre]

This is a very nice and useful thread. But the OP could be more complete if people like me, got an understanding of what exactly was developed until 2012 when the game got announced as FFXV and went into full production.

I mean, when this happened, how much of the game was already produced? Was the world pretty much envisioned, was most of the plot/script ready? Sure a lot of changes were made, but I am just curious to understand what was the actual status of the game when Tabata and Co. went into full development.

 

[JBwB]

I mean, when this happened, how much of the game was already produced? Was the world pretty much envisioned, was most of the plot/script ready? Sure a lot of changes were made, but I am just curious to understand what was the actual status of the game when Tabata and Co. went into full development.

Final Fantasy Versus XIII was around 25% complete when it became Final Fantasy XV

“It’s a little bit rough, but in terms of how much it had progressed in terms of development, Versus XIII was around 20 to 25 percent,” Tabata said. “In terms of character designs or visuals, nothing really had been fixed at that point. We were still working on updating it and revising those designs.”

 

[Narroo]

Nomuras Involvement in Major Projects since 2005 (when Versus got announced)


2006 - Dirge of Cerberus (Character Designer)
2006 - The World Ends with You (Creative Producer/Character Designer)
2006 - Crisis Core Final Fantasy (Creative Producer/Character Designer)
2008 - Kingdom Hearts Coded (Director)
2008 - Dissidia Final Fantasy (Creative Producer/Character Designer)
2009 - Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days (Director)
2010 - Final Fantasy 13 (Main Character Designer)
2010 - Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep (Director)
2010 - Kingdom Hearts Re:coded (Director)
2011 - Dissidia 012 Final Fantasy (Creative Producer/Character Designer)
2011 - Final Fantasy Type-0 (Creative Producer/Character Designer)
2011 - Final Fantasy XIII-2 (Main Character Designer)
2012 - Theatrhythm Final Fantasy (Creative Producer)
2012 - Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance (Director)

and those aren't even all

And sadly, most of those games were fairly bad. Some people might argue about Kingdom Hearts, and Dissidia, but that's really not a good looking track record.

And dear god almighty, Dirge of Cerberus.

 

[valkyre]

Final Fantasy Versus XIII was around 25% complete when it became Final Fantasy XV

Thanks. Must have been nightmare season for Tabata and his team...