VincentMatts
Member
It wont be. Consoles give them the ability to sell HW to consumers at 1/3rd the price of a good PC.
There will always be a market for that. Not everyone wants to buy a pc, especially not the more casual people.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
A discussion of Xbox in the eighth gen so far
- Thread starter SOR5
- Start date
It wont be. Consoles give them the ability to sell HW to consumers at 1/3rd the price of a good PC.
There will always be a market for that. Not everyone wants to buy a pc, especially not the more casual people.
Salty Hippo
Member
I wish. Xbox wouldn't be trailing far behind the PS4 in terms of exclusives it that was the case (and I count PC/Anywhere games as exclusives).
I prefer the Xbox ecosystem, interface, network, controller, customer service, pretty much everything compared to PS4, except their approach to the games portfolio. It infuriates me how small, riskless and homogeneous Microsoft's exclusive games are compared to Sony. From first/second-party, to indie games, to japanese games that won't touch Xbox One with a 10 feet pole. And there's nothing indicating this will change in the short, medium or long term.
It seriously drives me mad how complacent and conformed they've been under Phil Spencer in this regard. Even during Mattrick's final year, DRM debacle aside, Xbox was showing way more promise to the future in terms of what actually matters to me: the games library.
Captain Zyrain
Member
This! Ahhh.. I am so on board with the digital future.. but digital prices suck.
Right now I'm tending to buy it on disk, play for a bit, trade the disk in, and then buy it digitally down the road so I can play it later.. but I hate putting disks in the machine.. and switching and.. (I'm lazy).
Bolivar687
Banned
The original Xbox One should have been branded as a Microsoft home entertainment device, with only an overclocked Kinect-less SKU bearing the Xbox name. It would have had that mainstream allure they were going for while not sabotaging one of their own brands.
I'm not convinced the reversals were deliberate or attributable to anyone in particular. The unbundling and price drops are no more credited to the new management than the dropping of DRM was to the old. Poor sales forced all these moves out of necessity, not any kind of renewed commitment to the gamer. Every exclusive released thus far has been in development for years and set in motion under Mattrick's tenure. The Windows interoperability does seem genuinely new though and has paradigm-shifting potential.
They still don't have the international reach to challenge Sony. Until they do, their best bet is to position Xbox as an American alternative to Playstation with the resources and infrastructure of the Microsoft mothership. They've won some months suggesting the rebrand has been successful.
I'm not convinced the reversals were deliberate or attributable to anyone in particular. The unbundling and price drops are no more credited to the new management than the dropping of DRM was to the old. Poor sales forced all these moves out of necessity, not any kind of renewed commitment to the gamer. Every exclusive released thus far has been in development for years and set in motion under Mattrick's tenure. The Windows interoperability does seem genuinely new though and has paradigm-shifting potential.
They still don't have the international reach to challenge Sony. Until they do, their best bet is to position Xbox as an American alternative to Playstation with the resources and infrastructure of the Microsoft mothership. They've won some months suggesting the rebrand has been successful.
Okami Haundo
Member
I'll jump in here to say I'm for this as well. I don't have the article but I remember reading about how Azure services were supposed to let retailers like Gamestop de-register your game keys if you wanted to trade something in. I feel like that would have been the one of the big essential keys to making digital-only work on consoles.
I hope going into the future, Phil and team form a better Xbox with better branding across the world ans better PR (lol).
My wishlist:
1.Diversify their current studios output
2.Bring in more studios (I think 12 varying from A - AAA and hybrid third/first party would be a great fit for MS)
3.Learn that small victories win the war
4.Better Indie polices - (This one doesn't actually matter because the current indie selection on the PS store is miles ahead of Xbox's selection)
5.Try with both sides of the globe - (They don't need to put too much resources into Japan but a decent try would be nice)
6. Limit the Xbox Play Anywhere - While I think it's a good idea, giving technically competent people a reason is stupid. Make the Xbox console desirable with few exclusives.
My wishlist:
1.Diversify their current studios output
2.Bring in more studios (I think 12 varying from A - AAA and hybrid third/first party would be a great fit for MS)
3.Learn that small victories win the war
4.Better Indie polices - (This one doesn't actually matter because the current indie selection on the PS store is miles ahead of Xbox's selection)
5.Try with both sides of the globe - (They don't need to put too much resources into Japan but a decent try would be nice)
6. Limit the Xbox Play Anywhere - While I think it's a good idea, giving technically competent people a reason is stupid. Make the Xbox console desirable with few exclusives.
Limiting Xbox Play Anywhere to console is at odds with the strategy for Windows, the parent division which Xbox falls within, so I don't see that happening. Especially not when the CEO explicitly said in his mission statement that Xbox first-party and Xbox Live would be used to increase the appeal of Windows across all Windows 10 devices.
I know it does but I feel that isn't working. I still believe Xbox and PC sharing 50 - 75% and then a few exclusives for both platforms would work better in the long run. I don't feel that everything being on PAW will work out in the end, I can't imagine people on PC wanting to play an AOE 5 altered for console.
LordRaptor
Member
ReBurn
Gold Member
I've been really happy with my Xbox One. I don't care about any of the stuff that happened before launch because Microsoft listened to what people were saying and adjusted appropriately. It's kind of weird to get hung up on what could have happened when it's not what happened.
It's been tons better since Phil Spencer took the helm. I've been having a lot of fun.
It's been tons better since Phil Spencer took the helm. I've been having a lot of fun.
VincentMatts
Member
What they need to do is give Scorpio a new UI thats sleek and fast and drop the xbox one name from that console.
They need to separate themselves with this console and its name.
They need to separate themselves with this console and its name.
get2sammyb
Member
My sentence could have been worded better. I think now, as of this moment, they're starting to re-find their identity, with the very initiatives you point to.
However, my opinion is that in 2013 right through to the beginning of this year (ish) they more or less abandoned everything that made them stand out, and neutered the Xbox One to the point where it had no real hook or identity at all besides, "That PS4-like console that's not as popular and plays Halo."
I know a lot of it was driven by the poor reception of the Xbox One announcement, but stripping it of Kinect and backing away from all the multimedia stuff they were going to do shed it of any of the identity and purpose they clearly had for the product prior to launch.
And stuff like ID@Xbox, no matter whether you see it in a positive light today, all just seemed very me too at the time. Like I said, in the years up to 2016, I got a very real impression that Microsoft management was saying, "Look at what Sony's doing! We should do that, too!"
But again, they're now starting to finally break away and do their own thing again. Which is good.
That sounds like a plan if they were introducing a ninth generation console.
Hey nothings stopping another rehaul across XB1/XB1S/Scorpio, personally I think it's fine, it just needs some life like some ambience or something dynamic. I think the layout is great, I really love the layout
VincentMatts
Member
That sounds like a plan if they were introducing a ninth generation console
I admire that they dont give up and keep improving it, but to me this console is the equivalent to windows vista: no matter what they do to improve it, it will always be associated with the negative launch.
Probably my fifth post saying this in a thread but i'm telling you bro
Xbox One=Windows Vista Service Pack 2
Scorpio=Windows 7
Exact same foundations, exact same underlying technology, but with the power of the rebrand
I'm just guessing that from Nadella's perspective the Xbox division wasn't working as stand-alone console. Even when the Xbox division was doing well in the 360 years its revenue paled in comparison to other divisions. I think if Xbox can't help Windows at large then he would just get rid of it.
I disagree. Scorpio is substantially more powerful than Xbox one. Of course how much of it is actually used when the base line is Xbox one (and eventually PS4 neo) remains to be seen.
I dunno, I think Xbox as an entertainment brand is incredibly valuable to Microsoft and helping to keep them relevant to the general public. You're not going to get the Office logo printed on soccer shirts, for example.
Although you do get the Dynamics logo on an F1 car...
tiredheadcrab
Member
I think MS as a whole is turning things around. You can tell at the end of Steve Ballmers MS that the company was in a bit of disaray. Windows 8 was sloppy, it performed well but the interface took everything great about Windows away. Xbox one unveil was so mixed and didnt make any sense coming from a gaming brand. The surface line of devices wasnt doing so hot.
Look at the Surface pro 4 and Surface book. MS has its hardware design down in order. I mean Apple is trying to copy MS. The Xbox One S looks sexy and borrows from this Windows 10 design that they are using. The Xbox division has a ways to go and until they start winning more than 1 or 2 months a year in NPD I think its an uphill climb. I do think Scorpio is going to try and invoke what made the 360 so great. I do hope they have more 1st party stuff in development than what was at E3 and hopefully E3 2017 we will see some surprises.
Look at the Surface pro 4 and Surface book. MS has its hardware design down in order. I mean Apple is trying to copy MS. The Xbox One S looks sexy and borrows from this Windows 10 design that they are using. The Xbox division has a ways to go and until they start winning more than 1 or 2 months a year in NPD I think its an uphill climb. I do think Scorpio is going to try and invoke what made the 360 so great. I do hope they have more 1st party stuff in development than what was at E3 and hopefully E3 2017 we will see some surprises.
Unfortunately, his strategy isn't working out at the moment and I fear it will end up diluting the Xbox brand rather than fix it. Also Xbox as a brand is far more valuable than the UWP movement.
So true, unfortunately.
He's talking about the idea behind it, not power difference and other specifics.
The Strokes
Banned
Agreed. Although PlayStation 4 has seen some very weak exclusives Sony still has Naughty Dog to pump the occasional GOTY quality exclusive. Microsoft just... doesn't anymore.
I'm a Halo fan, but the brand is tarnished beyond repair, ironically like the Xbox brand itself was back in 2013 and is still trying to recover from and I don't see how 343 will be able to please everyone to a degree of turning things around for both simply because the Halo franchise is held to different standards by very opinionated fans.
I hope Rare gets to be the next big thing on the Xbox platforms.
I don't know that it matters if it doesn't translate to revenue.
It's barely in its infant stages with just 4 games released. Will be interesting to see how it's doing after a new Gears, Halo, and Forza cycle have passed.
Not even close. The top C-level executives of Mattrick and Whitten are gone and Mehdi seems to have stepped away from Xbox all together.
LordBaztion
Member
Overall nobody has made a turn for the best but MS Studios future still worries me. They haven't recovered from the close of Lionhead and don't seem to be invested into building studios. I guess currently their money is put on Scorpio and they are more likely having more development deals with third party developed.
However, what worries the most is the lack of commitment with new IPs or games outside of their comfort zone. Sunset, Scalebound, Ryse, Quantum Break and Crackdown are the only inside/new games that they funded and all are Mattrick projects. Phil's are just Sea of Thieves, ReCore and Phantom Dust, none of these bring a big budget investment.
However, what worries the most is the lack of commitment with new IPs or games outside of their comfort zone. Sunset, Scalebound, Ryse, Quantum Break and Crackdown are the only inside/new games that they funded and all are Mattrick projects. Phil's are just Sea of Thieves, ReCore and Phantom Dust, none of these bring a big budget investment.
davonaytor
Member
I play the vast majority of my games on the PC, and have a PS4 for the exclusives. At the start of this generation, owning an Xbox One wasn't even a thought that would cross my mind, but now I can see myself owning one maybe when Scorpio launches.
I like having a console in the living room. I've got a Steam Link, but I think big picture mode is awful, and small issues like games launching with mouse cursors chilling out in the middle, traditional controllers not being fully supported, and games minimising when Windows wants to handle something, really get annoying, to the point where I'd much rather have a traditional console in the living room. I also much prefer the Xbox controller to the PS4's, so if I had both, I'd probably end up getting a few multiplats on the Xbox. The only thing it really needs is a Discord app so I can easily talk to my friends on PC.
I like having a console in the living room. I've got a Steam Link, but I think big picture mode is awful, and small issues like games launching with mouse cursors chilling out in the middle, traditional controllers not being fully supported, and games minimising when Windows wants to handle something, really get annoying, to the point where I'd much rather have a traditional console in the living room. I also much prefer the Xbox controller to the PS4's, so if I had both, I'd probably end up getting a few multiplats on the Xbox. The only thing it really needs is a Discord app so I can easily talk to my friends on PC.
Microsoft has tried and tried and tried with Japan. They have dumped millions upon millions in trying to get some foothold in Japan. At this point they've said "fuck it" and I don't blame them.
Jawmuncher
Member
Right now with everything that is out, I feel like MS is nailing their exclusive games. There's a lot I've enjoyed out of them. Since most appeal to me. Will be interesting to see how it goes next year. Since a good chunk of Sony devs seemed like they needed extra time to put out some stuff.
Yes, to a company your brands are almost more important than product sales. If you have a poor selling product but a strong brand you can try again with a new product. The inverse is not true.
Fortune 500 companies, Microsoft included, spend hundreds of millions of dollars to build and protect their brands.
The Xbox brand will be around long after the actual console hardware has bit the dust or morphed into something that's no longer a game console.
This is exactly how I feel about Microsoft right now. I want to do the majority of my console gaming on XBox. I view their account management and online services as superior to Sony's, and I've come to like the controller better too. But man, there's only so much Gears and Halo a guy can take. My favorite two exclusives this generation have been Uncharted 4 and Bloodborne. If you pushed me to name an XBox one, I might have to say Ori and the Blind Forest, or if PC-also releases don't count, Sunset Overdrive.
What happened to the company that gave me Mech Assault and Crimson Skies for the original XBox, then Kameo and Viva Pinata for the 360? We're going to be four years into this generation before we see something different from them in the form of Sea of Thieves. I'm hoping against hope Recore is good just because it's not a shooter.
¡HarlequinPanic!
Member
I like my xbox, I enjoy the commitment to legacy gameplay through stuff like Rare Replay, MCC (despite it's many issues) and the backwards compatibility. I only grab a handful of new games, sunset overdrive was probably the last exclusive I was super excited for, though I do love the Forza series.
Microsoft have tried with Japan for 3 generations, and its not worked out yet. Japanese gamers just aren't buying the console, and why should they over a sony or nintendo one?
Salty Hippo
Member
Agree 100%. Been saying this for over a year now.
Yep. And even Sea of Thieves is a VERY calculated risk. They are pursuing a super successful model (Destiny's) and, thematically, filling a hole on the market at the same time (not a lot of pirate games around). It's a great business idea to greenlight that game. Nothing wrong with that, but I hated Destiny and hate MMOs* in general so Sea of Thieves has a lot to proving to do. Especially when it's far from being what Rare fans expected from Rare.
*I know that both Destiny and this are supposed to be "Share-World" games rather than MMOs, but to me and a lot of people it's all the same.
At this point my xbox is nothing more than a Halo machine. New gears looks promising for their adherence to what made the multiplayer great, and not having a gaming pic nor a ps4 there are some upcoming cross plats that look intersting, so I'm not writing it off as a bad purchase yet
Salty Hippo
Member
More like 2 generations. But I agree, they did all they could with Og Xbox and 360, they shouldn't bother anymore. Especially now that the japanese console market is not as relevant as it used to be.
They should work to grow the brand in Europe. Wouldn't be easy, but probably not impossible like it is in Japan.
rokkerkory
Member
Clusterfuck of first 2 years but big time turn around in 3rd year.
No generations is way to go. Xbox one s is sexy!
In Phil we believe
No generations is way to go. Xbox one s is sexy!
In Phil we believe
Primethius
Banned
Xbox is in a much better place then they were at launch but if I had to rank the MS of this gen compared to past gens, they would be somewhere like:
OG Xbox >= Early 360 > Late 360 = Current XB1 > Launch XB1
It's still one of their lowest points. As essentially an ex-XB1 owner (and lifelong Xbox fan), what they seem to be providing is experiences focused around their stable IPs with a bit of branching out but certainly not to the extent of past generations.
And really, I see two MSs right now. The software/feature side seems to be providing much more (updates/BC etc) then the actual gaming side in terms of contributing to the overall health of the platform.
They also mismanaged the Halo franchise pretty badly after Bungie left, and continued to do so throughout this gen so much so that a well recieved title was harmed due to external factors.
OG Xbox >= Early 360 > Late 360 = Current XB1 > Launch XB1
It's still one of their lowest points. As essentially an ex-XB1 owner (and lifelong Xbox fan), what they seem to be providing is experiences focused around their stable IPs with a bit of branching out but certainly not to the extent of past generations.
And really, I see two MSs right now. The software/feature side seems to be providing much more (updates/BC etc) then the actual gaming side in terms of contributing to the overall health of the platform.
They also mismanaged the Halo franchise pretty badly after Bungie left, and continued to do so throughout this gen so much so that a well recieved title was harmed due to external factors.
potatohead
Member
Microsoft's failures in general, and sadly with Xbox also, are generally created on their own.
It's actually annoying. I loved what they brought to gaming with the OG Xbox. Then the Xbox 360 in the early years was a force to be reckoned with.
Why they squandered the good they did for the most part, I still don't understand, but it's the same reason I fail to understand Microsoft's actions generally.
And yes it's true their software side with W10 is really moving forward with the times, but the same is not seen on their gaming lineup. It seems in stasis from 5 years ago and not adapting fast enough.
That's.... a super long shot.
It's actually annoying. I loved what they brought to gaming with the OG Xbox. Then the Xbox 360 in the early years was a force to be reckoned with.
Why they squandered the good they did for the most part, I still don't understand, but it's the same reason I fail to understand Microsoft's actions generally.
And yes it's true their software side with W10 is really moving forward with the times, but the same is not seen on their gaming lineup. It seems in stasis from 5 years ago and not adapting fast enough.
That's.... a super long shot.
Crayon
Member
If people would have gone for the always-on-camera thing, the payoff would have been huge. Maybe they knew it was risky to rush it like that. Maybe they thought it was in the bag. Somewhere in there tho I can see that the gamble was worth it. A camera that could literally see who gets excited at which commercial.
All anyone has wanted from Microsoft is to buy or build new internal studios and they've been actually closing studios of late. When I see like five studios making AA-AAA New IPs, I will consider Microsoft turned around but superficial stuff like controllers, hardware and online play won't right the ship, quality games will.
potatohead
Member
We are sadly a long way from OG Xbox. MechAssault, Crimson Skies, OG Halo, JSRF, Jade Empire, DOA, Ninja Gaiden.
They play passive in the market so I expect they shouldn't be surprised they get spurned. Maybe they don't care and are content being second place, I don't even know what to think anymore.
One bullet point on that one post's list: Microsoft should learn that small victories win the war. That's something Microsoft in the games arena hasn't understood for "decades" and that is not changing anytime soon.
That's something Microsoft and Xbox just don't understand anymore, that content is king and that the way to get content is a long-term project, building relationships, fostering developers, etc etc, not just the home run ball during one month in the holidays with a big sale.
I think the gamble was worth it.
Or at least would've been more worth it had they not fucked up their messaging soooo badly lol
I don't think even MS gave themselves a proper chance with that strategy, this is another mistake they really make a lot, they just assume people will like what they are doing by default. But they need to understand they are not Apple and it doesn't work that way for them. They need to get messaging out properly.
I've been happy with my Xbox One. The things I dislike of this gen are mostly not platform specific, such as lack of couch co-op. The Wii U has really had the crown for that since it's launch.
I think dropping the Kinect was a bad idea. I bought one at launch and it's truly entertaining with friends/family. Sure, it has issues, but none of them have really ruined the fun. They should have pushed developers harder before dropping it.
I have a gaming PC, but I go to the Xbox One almost as much. It acts as a hub for my media and has a few more apps than my TV. Would buy again, no regrets.
I think dropping the Kinect was a bad idea. I bought one at launch and it's truly entertaining with friends/family. Sure, it has issues, but none of them have really ruined the fun. They should have pushed developers harder before dropping it.
I have a gaming PC, but I go to the Xbox One almost as much. It acts as a hub for my media and has a few more apps than my TV. Would buy again, no regrets.
Final Verdict
Member
nice OP!
I think xbox has come a long way from 2013 days, and I think that has a lot to do with the new leadership as well as the godsend that their Xbox feedback program has been.
While I think they are in a good place, I think there are a lot of things they have yet to accomplish:
I think xbox has come a long way from 2013 days, and I think that has a lot to do with the new leadership as well as the godsend that their Xbox feedback program has been.
While I think they are in a good place, I think there are a lot of things they have yet to accomplish:
- They obviously need to execute project Scorpio at a very high level in a way that it will be as powerful as promised, yet still affordable to the consumer.
- They need to do a good job of keeping support for current loyal gamers on the Xbox One platform as they have promised, while allowing developers freedom to innovate on the new hardware.....it is a delicate balance.
- They need to put a lot of work into creating a good VR solution, or making a good partnership with oculus/vive to create an xbox VR headset that is high quality, and maybe cuts a bit of the cost from what the current headsets cost (and possibly make current headsets compatible as well).
- I would also like to see them innovate more on the Xbox Store front in creating features that made digital purchases easier such as digital game gifting, lending or trading even.
- Lastly, they need to continue with making new and interesting IPs, and I would really like to see them open up some new studios and fund more games for their platforms. Hopefully the whole Play Anywhere program will allow them to fund more games, and take bigger risk.
momshotdad
Member
What a complete 180 they've pulled with this system. It went from me thinking I would never get one, to me having one AND using it as my main daily console. That controller is slick, the box is silent, and the exclusives are fantastic. I've loved my Xbox One and I'll definitely buy Scorpio when it comes out.