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Games A Halogaf Community Thread: The Old Becomes New

Pfhunkie

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May 10, 2014
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I just don't get how Halo players have resorted to saying they can "live with enhanced mobility" like it's a burden they have to bare. Halo is Halo. If it betrays the core gameplay, it shouldn't exist. Nothing should be allowed to be changed in a franchise like this that betrays the core of the design. If you look at games that successfully adapted, they don't betray it in the way that enhanced mobility does to Halo. The only times where drastic design changes need to take place to the core gameplay are like the jump from 2D to 3D.

You look at a game like Counter-Strike and how the core of the gameplay has gone unchanged pretty much forever. It's just been tweaked and balanced over the decades. It still has a strong playerbase, it has a strong eSports scene, and if a new one came out with prettier graphics that stayed true to CS:GO's balance, it would generate a lot of hype. When it comes to the competitive multiplayer, no matter what people say, I think what Halo needs is to honestly go back to its roots in its gameplay with prettier graphics and a strong focus on giving players more options on how they want to play the game. If Halo Infinite comes out with a proper dev kit, a proper server browser, and a multiplayer with classic Halo intact, I think it has the potential to sell really, really well.

I've had long time friends that I used to play Halo with that aren't even willing to take a glance at Halo Infinite because they know it's not going to be "really Halo". Everyone I talk to, even people who aren't huge Halo fans, clearly have the impression that Halo isn't really Halo anymore like it's a band that has changed its members too many times to be honestly considered the same band that released the albums you love. However, when they heard MCC was coming out on PC, they were hyped about it.

I think it's important to take a step back and realize that the decline of Halo started with Halo: Reach. Many of us, myself included, loved Reach but we know that armor abilities caused a giant rift that has been growing since. We can debate all day but when I ask everyone around me (online and in person) that had any experience playing the original Halo games why they aren't interested in playing the game, it always comes back to armor abilities (including sprint). Always. Every single time. No exception.
 
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jdouglas

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Apr 14, 2012
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Huh. First time I log in in a long time to post about how Reach ruined halo by introducing sprint, bloom, armor abilities and the poster above me beats me to it.

Anyway, no need to reinvent the wheel. Just look at Call of Duty Warzone. Setting records while changing nothing for the last 10 years.

Too bad for corporate politics or whatever was going on behind the scenes that caused such massive disconnect from reality, and incredible inflexibility, lack of reflection and introspection, accountability, that prevented 343 from admitting Reach was a monumental mistake.
 
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-Arcadia-

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On a lark, I figured I’d install the MCC and play the Halo 1 visual remake, despite all the issues I’ve heard with both. Give it a chance, you know?

I’m really glad I did. Those issues remain a thing (this redo at times has some of the most controversial art choices I’ve ever seen for this type of thing), but being away from Halo for so long, about ten years or so, I’ve just started to fall in love all over again.

Halo 1 is doing that thing where it slowly takes over your life to me again. When you’re not playing it, you’re thinking about it, and wanting to get home to immerse yourself in it. It isn’t exactly 2001 all over again, as things have noticeably aged, but the effect is still there.

It’s just an incredibly well-paced, well-designed game, that draws you into an experience of continuous adventure and wonder. I don’t know that any subsequent Halo game made you feel like you were on an epic, singular journey like this.

Likewise, for as much as I can and will bitch about some art style choices, the fact is that the original has been dated to the point where it’s visuals are a pretty big minus too — not so much the indoor visuals, but the game’s once beautiful depictions of nature seem pretty flat, retro, and simplistic these days, even if Bungie’s art direction is absolutely on point.

Seeing the game reinvigorated with something closer to a modern game (this version is quite old itself, but holds up generally well) is fantastic, then. It gives a whole new life to a game that I’ve been through countless times before, brings it in line with the other Halo games, and most importantly, expresses the vision in a way that original Xbox hardware never could.

Online multiplayer for the first has also been a trip. Did you guys know there were other Halo 1 maps besides Blood Gulch? 😋 I’ve never really got the chance to explore this multiplayer in-depth, in terms of all the different modes and maps, because of that Team Slayer LAN Party obsession back in the day, and it’s quite fun, if weapon limited. It’s even pulled me away from Fortnite, which is quite the accomplishment for a twenty year old game.

IDK. I don’t want to ramble. I just wanted to share how much life this old classic still has in it, and how much I’m enjoying it. For all the missteps of the MCC and 343, it’s pretty special that I can be fully immersed in every aspect of Halo 1, twenty years after the fact, on a modern console.
 

Cutty Flam

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If all else fails with Halo Infinite (doubt it will be too bad, hopefully and likely they finally nail it with a Halo game and celebrate / all is well) I’m sure MCC will be available for the Xbox Series X
 
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-Arcadia-

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If all else fails with Halo Infinite (doubt it will be too bad, hopefully and likely they finally nail it with a Halo game and celebrate / all is well) I’m sure MCC will be available for the Xbox Series X
Fundamentally, it should be backwards compatible. So, worst case scenario 4K/60 for all games.

An update for 120FPS would be pretty sweet, though...
 
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II_JumPeR_I

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I just don't get how Halo players have resorted to saying they can "live with enhanced mobility" like it's a burden they have to bare. Halo is Halo. If it betrays the core gameplay, it shouldn't exist. Nothing should be allowed to be changed in a franchise like this that betrays the core of the design. If you look at games that successfully adapted, they don't betray it in the way that enhanced mobility does to Halo. The only times where drastic design changes need to take place to the core gameplay are like the jump from 2D to 3D.

You look at a game like Counter-Strike and how the core of the gameplay has gone unchanged pretty much forever. It's just been tweaked and balanced over the decades. It still has a strong playerbase, it has a strong eSports scene, and if a new one came out with prettier graphics that stayed true to CS:GO's balance, it would generate a lot of hype. When it comes to the competitive multiplayer, no matter what people say, I think what Halo needs is to honestly go back to its roots in its gameplay with prettier graphics and a strong focus on giving players more options on how they want to play the game. If Halo Infinite comes out with a proper dev kit, a proper server browser, and a multiplayer with classic Halo intact, I think it has the potential to sell really, really well.

I've had long time friends that I used to play Halo with that aren't even willing to take a glance at Halo Infinite because they know it's not going to be "really Halo". Everyone I talk to, even people who aren't huge Halo fans, clearly have the impression that Halo isn't really Halo anymore like it's a band that has changed its members too many times to be honestly considered the same band that released the albums you love. However, when they heard MCC was coming out on PC, they were hyped about it.

I think it's important to take a step back and realize that the decline of Halo started with Halo: Reach. Many of us, myself included, loved Reach but we know that armor abilities caused a giant rift that has been growing since. We can debate all day but when I ask everyone around me (online and in person) that had any experience playing the original Halo games why they aren't interested in playing the game, it always comes back to armor abilities (including sprint). Always. Every single time. No exception.
Couldnt agree more. I was a diehard Halo fan until 343 Industries and all their fuck ups happened. I really dont have any faith in Infinite... Changing the ArtStyle doesnt hype me... show me that they care about the Halo legacy and that they are willing to give the classic gameplay style another chance...
Im tired and exhausted of having to hope for proper Halo game...

Im still waiting for a proper sequel to Halo 3. Halo 4 wasnt that to me in my eyes.
 
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Jul 6, 2015
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If all else fails with Halo Infinite (doubt it will be too bad, hopefully and likely they finally nail it with a Halo game and celebrate / all is well) I’m sure MCC will be available for the Xbox Series X
MCC 2 with H3A, all 6 games on disc (they can leave out Halo 5), and the buggy achievements finally fixed. Do it Microsoft.
 
Apr 28, 2020
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New here but have been a Halo fan for ages. My two cents on Infinite are that I'm a bit beyond caring about the gameplay as I feel it's a losing battle at this point, as much as it sucks to say. I'd prefer sprint and all the other stuff to not be there but I just don't think it's gonna happen. Personally as someone who’s primarily into the campaigns these days, I just want them to unfuck the story. Halo 5's was so atrocious it nearly killed my interest in the series. I like what I’ve seen from Infinite so far with how it seems to be taking inspiration from the old games, and there’s small signs they’re gonna be reversing the main issue I had with Halo 5 (evil Cortana), but the lack of actual gameplay and just info in general is worrying to me. Pretty sure the toylines have revealed more about the game than the trailers have, which is a bit silly.

As for MCC, I don’t even know what to think at this point. H2A campaign runs pretty well on my PC but it’s a horrorshow on my Xbox One X with frequent massive framerate drops. I’d say it must be the hardware but it didn’t used to be this way, as I remember it running decently when it released on my launch Xbox One. Hopefully they either patch it or the Series X will be able to power through… whatever is going on. Haven’t tried the multiplayer at all yet but I hear it has a lot of problems too.
 
Jul 6, 2015
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New here but have been a Halo fan for ages. My two cents on Infinite are that I'm a bit beyond caring about the gameplay as I feel it's a losing battle at this point, as much as it sucks to say. I'd prefer sprint and all the other stuff to not be there but I just don't think it's gonna happen. Personally as someone who’s primarily into the campaigns these days, I just want them to unfuck the story. Halo 5's was so atrocious it nearly killed my interest in the series. I like what I’ve seen from Infinite so far with how it seems to be taking inspiration from the old games, and there’s small signs they’re gonna be reversing the main issue I had with Halo 5 (evil Cortana), but the lack of actual gameplay and just info in general is worrying to me. Pretty sure the toylines have revealed more about the game than the trailers have, which is a bit silly.
I just want them to fix the gameplay on legendary. Halo 5 has the worst legendary gameplay out of any game in the series except for Halo 2. Every fight just turns into a long range battle and you have to hide behind cover, running and gunning is so discouraged in that game its insane. I did a full Halo marathon and after playing Halo 5 on legendary I went to Halo ODST legendary and immediately I was like holy shit I can run and gun again without getting instantly killed!
 
Apr 28, 2020
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I just want them to fix the gameplay on legendary. Halo 5 has the worst legendary gameplay out of any game in the series except for Halo 2. Every fight just turns into a long range battle and you have to hide behind cover, running and gunning is so discouraged in that game its insane. I did a full Halo marathon and after playing Halo 5 on legendary I went to Halo ODST legendary and immediately I was like holy shit I can run and gun again without getting instantly killed!
I think that was a symptom of the (poorly executed) squad system - you could really tell the game was tuned for 4 players because of how often they would just flood the arenas with enemies to an obnoxious degree. The same thing also happened in Spartan Ops.

I know 343 initially said they'd be keeping the squad system for future games but with how poorly received it was and how IIRC the main guy behind it left the studio recently I wonder if they're pulling back from it. Plus there's the fact that the promotional material has only focused on Chief with no Blue Team/Osiris running around.
 
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II_JumPeR_I

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I'd play the shit out of a Halo Battle Royale, landing on a Halo .
I agree. And thanks to Halos already existing Armor system (Armor system is something all the BR games out there still havent nailed IMO) it could work really well. So you wouldnt lose much dev time, money and resources on this.
 

Casanova

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I'd play the shit out of a Halo Battle Royale, landing on a Halo .
It's a trend I actually want 343 to chase, such a perfect fit.
I agree. And thanks to Halos already existing Armor system (Armor system is something all the BR games out there still havent nailed IMO) it could work really well. So you wouldnt lose much dev time, money and resources on this.
Halo Battle Royale would be great, but there would have to be a really dedicate balance of a large map while maintaining arena-like gameplay that we all know and love about the Halo series. I imagine this could be done through having named locations/arena's spread throughout the map, which already occurs on most BR's, but with Halo, there couldn't be too many open fields and large open spaces or it would ruin that feel, imo. If forge mode has enough space to work with, I imagine we'd be able to create BR modes, but that might be impossible to do, not sure.
 

Ozzy Onya A2Z

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Apr 16, 2012
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Halo Battle Royale would be great, but there would have to be a really dedicate balance of a large map while maintaining arena-like gameplay that we all know and love about the Halo series. I imagine this could be done through having named locations/arena's spread throughout the map, which already occurs on most BR's, but with Halo, there couldn't be too many open fields and large open spaces or it would ruin that feel, imo. If forge mode has enough space to work with, I imagine we'd be able to create BR modes, but that might be impossible to do, not sure.
Halo was famous for open spaces and tight corridor fighting too, just look at the campaigns. You don't need this razor focus on esports bullshit all the time. Think CE second mission, Halo. Think Halo 2 mission Delta Halo. And so on...

What a Halo BR game could really bring is its large sandbox of foot soldiers, weapons, vehicles with awesome balance and a respawn system that makes sense too. There is plenty of room for snipers, vehicles, CQC and more with Halo. Just open up a little.
 
May 18, 2020
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I just don't get how Halo players have resorted to saying they can "live with enhanced mobility" like it's a burden they have to bare. Halo is Halo. If it betrays the core gameplay, it shouldn't exist. Nothing should be allowed to be changed in a franchise like this that betrays the core of the design. If you look at games that successfully adapted, they don't betray it in the way that enhanced mobility does to Halo. The only times where drastic design changes need to take place to the core gameplay are like the jump from 2D to 3D.

You look at a game like Counter-Strike and how the core of the gameplay has gone unchanged pretty much forever. It's just been tweaked and balanced over the decades. It still has a strong playerbase, it has a strong eSports scene, and if a new one came out with prettier graphics that stayed true to CS:GO's balance, it would generate a lot of hype. When it comes to the competitive multiplayer, no matter what people say, I think what Halo needs is to honestly go back to its roots in its gameplay with prettier graphics and a strong focus on giving players more options on how they want to play the game. If Halo Infinite comes out with a proper dev kit, a proper server browser, and a multiplayer with classic Halo intact, I think it has the potential to sell really, really well.

I've had long time friends that I used to play Halo with that aren't even willing to take a glance at Halo Infinite because they know it's not going to be "really Halo". Everyone I talk to, even people who aren't huge Halo fans, clearly have the impression that Halo isn't really Halo anymore like it's a band that has changed its members too many times to be honestly considered the same band that released the albums you love. However, when they heard MCC was coming out on PC, they were hyped about it.

I think it's important to take a step back and realize that the decline of Halo started with Halo: Reach. Many of us, myself included, loved Reach but we know that armor abilities caused a giant rift that has been growing since. We can debate all day but when I ask everyone around me (online and in person) that had any experience playing the original Halo games why they aren't interested in playing the game, it always comes back to armor abilities (including sprint). Always. Every single time. No exception.
Agree. 100%. The Halo needs sprint because modern shooters have sprint argument is also used often. Fact is all of the big FPS both in the casual and comp scene: CS, Siege, Valorant, Overwatch, COD, Apex, Titanfall (rip), and Battlefield all have very different implementations of sprint/mobility. There isn't a surefire formula because what works in one game doesn't necessarily work in another. Each game needs its own identity and Halo does too. Maybe Halo will leave new players with a steep learning curve but games like Siege and the many BRs with complicated mechanics or non "traditional" gameplay mechanics shows that people will stick with it and learn even if the game is challenging.

I would also add that Halo should be built around competitive with casual being an extension of that core. Halo 5 esports scene might as well have just been lip service because the game itself was not competitive. Halo just cant work in a competitive scene with sprint. There is something to be said about having a hardcore audience wrapped up in your game. It generates excitement that infects even the more casual fans. Its why Siege and fighting games have such loyal fanbases. Halo 1, 2, 3 all had the most competitive scene but also a large casual audience. BTB, which is certainly a casual mode, was best in 2/3. Having a tight core gameplay experience that works in comp was something they were able to expand to larger more casual modes. Add in Forge and custom game options and Halo really shines. It is a competitive game but also a game for everyone. Moreover, the "simple" nature of Halo (no characters with abilities, limited player stat variability) makes it really exciting and easy for anyone to follow a competitive match. Bungie's games were competitive in spite of Bungie largely ignoring MLG and sometimes taking steps to make the game less comp (H3 BR). I can't even imagine how much bigger Halo could have been if they had embraced the competitive scene the same way that Ubi has with Siege.

Finally it is ok if Halo doesn't "evolve" or change. The game is great at being Halo. I think there is an audience for that type of game. As I said in my first paragraph, every game needs its own identity. There is a reason games like CS, Madden, Street Fighter, and Smash which have all seen little change from iteration to iteration are all still insanely popular. There is room for new ideas in Halo but not id they come at the expense of the existing core. A game doesn't need to reinvent itself to stay relevant like people often suggest. Sometimes games doe successfully mix things up and come up with something new and exciting but it is the exception and not the rule. Easier for a singleplayer game to change as well-BOTW, God of War, Tomb Raider than for a MP game to change. The only game I have seen radically change and become more popular on the MP side is Siege but I would also argue that Rainbow Six wasn't exactly well known for having a huge and successful MP following beforehand. Regardless, there is nothing to suggest that a game must change in order to maintain and grow a fanbase. If anything we have only seen consistent MP games grow overtime like CS, COD, and Smash.

Also, Hi-big Halo fan here. First post here. Excited to jump into this thread.
 

Ozzy Onya A2Z

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For arena maps and modes I understand not wanting to have sprint, totally get it. I also loved Halo 2 with no sprint, I'm not against that want per se.

However for the "default light vehicles 4v4 or BTB or WZ" styles I do not understand it at all. As a foot soldier if you're going up against ghosts, gungeese, hogs, tanks, wasps etc while on a mid to large map sprint is a given. It comes back to this esports wanting to dictate and limit gameplay to a specific set of maps and modes.

Honestly at this point they should simply create two games, a mainstream "Default" vs "esports" focused, at the least go back to the settings being different between the modes/playlists. I does my head in to see MCC literally weighted in all playlists for the esports maps and modes. You want to play that, I don't. It's the usual divide.

Halo 5 went hugely into the esports arena and objectively had many successes, population still did not sustain or explode. Why? The core of Halo "Default" wasn't there.
 

RSB

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The other day, while playing Reach online co-op, using the jump button to jetpack didn't work properly. The first press of the button was fine, but the second one just wouldn't work. The gamepad did rumble, and the jetpack did its sound effect, but it wasn't doing anything (kept falling, as if it didn't activate the second time)

It's weird, because using the jetpack through the normal AA button worked as it should. Also, I guess it must be some kind of bug related to online co-op or something, because I tried today playing alone and it worked fine.

Has anyone else had this problem? I'm using Universal Bumper Jumper and playing on XB1X, BTW.

Also, is it me, or is the framerate in Halo 2 Anniversary way worse now?
 
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Ozzy Onya A2Z

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Get 3 buddies together for some MCC, 1 game on Aussie region and the rest southeast Asia. Halo and Xbox really need to deliver population to Australia with Infinite as well as controls for us to force regions. Apex, TF and Fortnite handle it just fine.
 
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Havoc2049

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The other day, while playing Reach online co-op, using the jump button to jetpack didn't work properly. The first press of the button was fine, but the second one just wouldn't work. The gamepad did rumble, and the jetpack did its sound effect, but it wasn't doing anything (kept falling, as if it didn't activate the second time)

It's weird, because using the jetpack through the normal AA button worked as it should. Also, I guess it must be some kind of bug related to online co-op or something, because I tried today playing alone and it worked fine.

Has anyone else had this problem? I'm using Universal Bumper Jumper and playing on XB1X, BTW.

Also, is it me, or is the framerate in Halo 2 Anniversary way worse now?
Ya, after the last update, Halo 2 Anniversary is all jacked up. It seems to play better with the classic graphics. Not sure what 343 did to cause this. You would think they would leave the single player stuff alone after fixing the few bugs years ago.
 
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h00ters

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Got into the H3 flight. Not sure why they keep inviting me given I haven't been able to test any of them due to being too busy.

Am I able to give my unused steam key to someone else or is it linked to my steam ID somehow?
 

Casanova

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Got into the H3 flight. Not sure why they keep inviting me given I haven't been able to test any of them due to being too busy.

Am I able to give my unused steam key to someone else or is it linked to my steam ID somehow?
I never get into the flights even though I’ve done everything right and have full availability right now. What’s the fucking point of being an OG Halo player with a huge service record who constantly keeps up with all things Halo news if I can’t even get into one flight? I really have such distaste for 343 at this point that I’m starting to really give up on Infinite.
 
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h00ters

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I never get into the flights even though I’ve done everything right and have full availability right now. What’s the fucking point of being an OG Halo player with a huge service record who constantly keeps up with all things Halo news if I can’t even get into one flight? I really have such distaste for 343 at this point that I’m starting to really give up on Infinite.
Check your DMs. Not sure if it'll work or not but given I won't have time to use it....
 

Ozzy Onya A2Z

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Just played a Halo 4 legendary settings monolith match and all it does is reinforce I have zero interest in pure slayer arena with hardcore settings and maps.
 
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Pfhunkie

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I never get into the flights even though I’ve done everything right and have full availability right now. What’s the fucking point of being an OG Halo player with a huge service record who constantly keeps up with all things Halo news if I can’t even get into one flight? I really have such distaste for 343 at this point that I’m starting to really give up on Infinite.
I have a buddy that's in the same situation. You're definitely not alone. Not entirely sure where how they choose because his setup is fairly unique (so is mine) and he's played every single game with records to show it yet never gets a single invite.
 

Ozzy Onya A2Z

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Thoughts/chances on Halo Infinite going with a full blown PvE mode?

For me this is one of the pillars of what I want from Infinite for years to come. Something like this -
  1. Campaign
  2. PvE mode (way beyond Firefight and with progressions/loot/REQs/ongoing story)
  3. Multiplayer
It's weird how multiplayer has fallen off the radar for me, pun intended.
 
Apr 28, 2020
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Thoughts/chances on Halo Infinite going with a full blown PvE mode?

For me this is one of the pillars of what I want from Infinite for years to come. Something like this -
  1. Campaign
  2. PvE mode (way beyond Firefight and with progressions/loot/REQs/ongoing story)
  3. Multiplayer
It's weird how multiplayer has fallen off the radar for me, pun intended.
It needs Firefight at the very least. And it needs to be far, far better than 5's, which was just abysmal in my opinion. And of course there's always the dream of Forge-able AI which I've wanted for over a decade now.
 

Bladed Thesis

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Jun 7, 2019
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Thoughts/chances on Halo Infinite going with a full blown PvE mode?

For me this is one of the pillars of what I want from Infinite for years to come. Something like this -
  1. Campaign
  2. PvE mode (way beyond Firefight and with progressions/loot/REQs/ongoing story)
  3. Multiplayer
It's weird how multiplayer has fallen off the radar for me, pun intended.
I think this would be a very clever direction to take the gameplay. With the popularity of mmos and doing things with your friends and games like Destiny showing how these types of PVE content can be maintained and progress a storyline, I think the idea of an openworld Halo game with tons of PVE content and modes as well as all the classics fans know and love is a logical step to take.

You can't just release Halo Infinite with 12-15 mp maps and think you're setting any bar for next gen.
 
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