A Halogaf Community Thread: The Old Becomes New

Jan 7, 2018
100
72
170
#51


SUPAH POST INCOMING

I like strafing and being able to twitch aim whenever i want. Sprint gets in the way of both. Your sprint suggestion is interesting and might work really well though. Would make people have to choose more carefully when and where they are going to sprint.
Yeah I really want it to have more of a utility. As it is, it doesn't provide nearly enough benefit because it is mostly used for running away with few interesting opportunities for sweet offensive plays. I can understand wanting to always be able to shoot, so sprint would need to function in a way that actually made it worth the temporary trade in offense. I've got some thoughts though. Now I'm imagining sprint with Thruster Pack in mind, as I don't think there is a chance in hell they are getting rid of that. I'm also imagining this with the idea of Spartan Charge being removed because fuck that noise. You could easily just thrust+melee. Doesn't need to be a sprint thing and would be much more versatile.

A) Sprint lasts 5 seconds with a 15 second cooldown, boosting speed in all directions (3x forward movement, 2x strafing, 1.5x backwards movement). Thruster Pack recharge would be lowered to 1.5 seconds or alternatively is instantly recharged upon activation. The downside is that you cannot shoot when moving forward.​
B) Sprint lasts 5 seconds with a 20 second cooldown, tripling movement speed in all directions but at the cost of all non-melee offense. Melee weapons would be usable? Miiiight be too much.​
C) Sprint lasts 5 seconds with a 15 second cooldown, doubling movement speed in all directions, speeding your normal melee attack up 1.5x and allowing small arms like pisols and smgs. If (and it be a big if) they brought back melee clashing with swords, it would be an interesting counter to that sucka.​
Now let's talk melee, because holy guacamole Batman, this kind of speed boost would make close quarters a melee mashing mess! Imagine how often you'd get DBZ matches with people activating their overdrive burst so they could just 2 hit melee. That'd suck and would dumb down everything. My solution? Melee takes 2 hits to knock down shields and 1-2 hits to kill unshielded. Melee in Halo is fun, but with that lunge, 2 hit kills are a mess. So that's muh thoughts on dat.

I still like pick ups better than default abilities.

Ground pound is really powerful, it needs to have some sort of penalty if you use it and miss, but I don't know what I would suggest other than what you mentioned, Splash damage would be nice if you miss, but just barely, perhaps with a small knock-back.
Can you think of any ways to improve pick ups? Could be new ones altogether or adjustments to the current ones.

The ground pound is a major killer for sure, and if melee were weakened, it would help emphasize Ground Pound's utility. A fully charged Ground Pound takes what, 4 seconds? Make it 5. So that's a decent exposure up in the air for a insta kill trade off. It would still need to be a direct hit though. I imagine it having 3 levels:

LEVEL 1 - 1 second charge​
Direct hit = Takes down shields, .5 second recovery time, 5 meter knock back/no shield damage​
Miss = 5 meter knock back/no shield damage, .5 second recovery time​
LEVEL 2 - 3 second charge​
Direct hit = Kill, 1 second recovery time, 10 meter knock back/25% shield damage​
Miss = 10 meter knock back/25% shield damage 1 second recovery time​
LEVEL 3 - 5 second charge​
Direct hit = Kill, 1.5 second recovery time, 20 meter knock back/50% shield damage​
Miss = 20 meter knock back/50% Shield damage 1.5 second recovery time​
The distance you are thrown degrades the further you are from the EPICenter (amirite). Numbers are just meant to represent power scaling essentially, as I am terrible with distance in Halo. 5 meters feels like 5 feet sometimes.​

Call me old fashioned but I want a direct throwback to the Halo 2 movement combat system.

It's not the nostalgia which makes it so appealing, it's a combination of the map design and the sheer brutality that many of the weapons packed. Sprint only feel necessary in Reach, H4 & H5 because the maps are designed in such a way that it is necessary to enable quicker traversal. Sprint on a map like Lockout or the original Midship would be completely out of place because the maps are11 a lot more confined and sprint wasn't necessary to easily get you back into the fight.

Same goes with clamber, simply make obstacles have slightly less verticality and it is no longer required.

I never liked hover and couldn't understand why it was implemented.
Right there with you and Deputy on dem maps in Halo 2. That shit was awesome and really did have some of the best in the series.

That said, I've always wanted there to be sprint in Halo. Even back when I was playing Halo's 1 and 2, I thought it would be awesome to have a major burst in speed for a few seconds. I've not really liked any of Halo's implementation's of sprint because as you said, they only inflate map design. It doesn't have much utility either since the boost is pretty minor and the sacrifice of offense just kicks ya in the dick.

As for hover, it allows for some clutch plays when combined with thrusters around ledges and multi leveled maps. Also fake outs. Those are fun.

--

Sorry for the wall. Got started and couldn't stoooop. I haven't even talked about how the health system should return to Halo CE's dual system with health packs n' shit. Another time.
 

h00ters

Neo Member
Jul 17, 2013
38
3
240
Melbourne, Australia
#52
Haha not going to bother quoting that due to the sheer size but agree with a lot of your points. I guess my main problem with hover is I used to LOVE the feeling of being on a map like Beaver/Battle Creek and jumping off the base to get an angle on someone previously obscured by another part of the maps geometry and at the last second nailing the headshot with a snipe before they disappear again. Hover, I felt, took that feeling away.

Interesting about the return of health packs. I feel like if you win a 1 v 1 with someone you should have the right to then front up to the next battle on a level playing field (provided your shields have recharged). Health packs, to me, could sometimes reward lesser-skilled players as they essentially enter a fight with an advantage from the beginning. Sometimes health packs won't have spawned yet so you're kind of at an unfair disadvantage, limiting your ability to consistently go around the map outplaying opponents and breaking setups.
 
Likes: stickkidsam
Jan 7, 2018
100
72
170
#53
Haha not going to bother quoting that due to the sheer size but agree with a lot of your points. I guess my main problem with hover is I used to LOVE the feeling of being on a map like Beaver/Battle Creek and jumping off the base to get an angle on someone previously obscured by another part of the maps geometry and at the last second nailing the headshot with a snipe before they disappear again. Hover, I felt, took that feeling away.
Yeah I can see how it would take away that feeling of a badass last second kill. It feels less like a clutch leap of faith kinda thing when you can just kick back on your jetpack suit for a couple seconds (which in battle makes a HUUUUGE difference). Do you think making it into a double jump instead would be preferable or even something you'd like?

Interesting about the return of health packs. I feel like if you win a 1 v 1 with someone you should have the right to then front up to the next battle on a level playing field (provided your shields have recharged). Health packs, to me, could sometimes reward lesser-skilled players as they essentially enter a fight with an advantage from the beginning. Sometimes health packs won't have spawned yet so you're kind of at an unfair disadvantage, limiting your ability to consistently go around the map outplaying opponents and breaking setups.
I think that's definitely a fair point, especially in hyper competitive modes where you are constantly worrying about someone on your ass.

You could argue that the dual system is more suited to single player vs AI battle, whereas recharging health might be more effective for a balanced second to second ecosystem in multiplayer. It's kind of a bitch when you go to the base and there isn't any health pack because some other dickhead took it to recharge 1 health point. As you pointed out, it's not exactly fair to the player. I think this could be resolved by making health "stations" rather than just random packs all over the place. Perhaps you could still have packs but home base would always have a station for yo health. *shrug*

What I like about the dual system though, is that it creates tension because of the depleting health. The longer you live, the riskier things can get, and that makes some objective game modes especially interesting since you need to make a journey somewhere and back usually. That isn't enough on its own though, because eventually you are going to be unable to effectively do anything without immediately getting killed. What makes the dual system TRULY brilliant imo, is that it adds a recharging shield to the mix. This completely changes how you'd approach a situation because now even if you are really low on health, there is still room to be a badass (and the adrenaline REALLY pumps in some of those fights). It also capitalizes on individual skill since you can still have a decent chance against someone with full health, because ultimately, it's the headshot that makes or breaks those situations. While this does make it so individual fights aren't always an even match, it creates an overarching effect on the gameplay that I personally find thrilling.

Essentially, the dual system is one of the more unique elements of Halo that I always enjoyed. The 2 health types feed into the other, and go beyond just the moment to moment gameplay (that's a matter of preference though). While this does present challenges the longer you are alive, it also changes the flow of gameplay in a way that builds on itself over the course of the match. Not overtly, but subtly due to the risks each player decides to take or not. That to me, is wicked cool.
 
Aug 29, 2007
6,891
309
910
40
Land of the OKC Thunder
#54
Oh my i've been away for a bit. that tends to happen with a 2 year old, family in town, and 12 hour work shifts. Trying to catch up and here are some happenings over the past 7 days or so:

Latest TMCC Patch Notes (1/9)

New Year's Halowaypoint Community Update (1/10)

UGC Halo Classic Tournament Results (1/14)


Halo Battle Born Novel Released


Halo: Lone Wolf issue #1 released


Finally, and I've been waiting for this (whatever this turns out to be), 343 has been working on a bigger update for TMCC, which got delayed last month. 343 says it will get released "soon" and after the UGC Halo event, which wrapped up yesterday. So expect it in the coming days I'd wager. From the Halowaypoint New Year's Update:

"As you know, MCC's December game update ran into an unfortuante late-breaking issue which caused the release to be postponed. The team has been working to get everything squared away and is currently targeting soon (beyond the blast radius of the Halo Classic by UGC) to release the next patch. We're eager to get the new Halo: CE skulls, "modern aiming" control options, and additional improvements into your hands and appreciate your patience and support. "
 
Last edited:
Likes: stickkidsam
Jun 12, 2018
362
560
210
#55
I came across this thread by accident. I clicked the wrong thing, ended up in Communities, saw Halo and had to check it out. This is a great thread, thank you for all you work OP.

Halo is my favorite series of all time, but I only do the campaigns. Not interested in MP, plus I suck and would get my butt kicked. Now that I've found this thread, I'll make a point to check in for the latest Halo news.
 
Aug 29, 2007
6,891
309
910
40
Land of the OKC Thunder
#56
Yeah I can see how it would take away that feeling of a badass last second kill. It feels less like a clutch leap of faith kinda thing when you can just kick back on your jetpack suit for a couple seconds (which in battle makes a HUUUUGE difference). Do you think making it into a double jump instead would be preferable or even something you'd like?


I think that's definitely a fair point, especially in hyper competitive modes where you are constantly worrying about someone on your ass.

You could argue that the dual system is more suited to single player vs AI battle, whereas recharging health might be more effective for a balanced second to second ecosystem in multiplayer. It's kind of a bitch when you go to the base and there isn't any health pack because some other dickhead took it to recharge 1 health point. As you pointed out, it's not exactly fair to the player. I think this could be resolved by making health "stations" rather than just random packs all over the place. Perhaps you could still have packs but home base would always have a station for yo health. *shrug*

What I like about the dual system though, is that it creates tension because of the depleting health. The longer you live, the riskier things can get, and that makes some objective game modes especially interesting since you need to make a journey somewhere and back usually. That isn't enough on its own though, because eventually you are going to be unable to effectively do anything without immediately getting killed. What makes the dual system TRULY brilliant imo, is that it adds a recharging shield to the mix. This completely changes how you'd approach a situation because now even if you are really low on health, there is still room to be a badass (and the adrenaline REALLY pumps in some of those fights). It also capitalizes on individual skill since you can still have a decent chance against someone with full health, because ultimately, it's the headshot that makes or breaks those situations. While this does make it so individual fights aren't always an even match, it creates an overarching effect on the gameplay that I personally find thrilling.

Essentially, the dual system is one of the more unique elements of Halo that I always enjoyed. The 2 health types feed into the other, and go beyond just the moment to moment gameplay (that's a matter of preference though). While this does present challenges the longer you are alive, it also changes the flow of gameplay in a way that builds on itself over the course of the match. Not overtly, but subtly due to the risks each player decides to take or not. That to me, is wicked cool.
I like the idea of health packs returning, but I'm weird and would also like fall damage to return as well. Halo 2 was fun because you never had to worry about falling off ledges, but fall damage in Halo CE added an extra amount of tension too. And I agree that the dual system in CE added just a little bit more to the game play. Health stations would work, but I think the idea of health stations on a map would be a bit odd. Like why would spartan health stations exist in the halo world? health packs are a bit more believable, like finding rations on a dead person or something,, but i realize in the end this is all make believe anyway.

I came across this thread by accident. I clicked the wrong thing, ended up in Communities, saw Halo and had to check it out. This is a great thread, thank you for all you work OP.

Halo is my favorite series of all time, but I only do the campaigns. Not interested in MP, plus I suck and would get my butt kicked. Now that I've found this thread, I'll make a point to check in for the latest Halo news.
Glad you stumbled upon the thread! I love MP but I'm not as good as I used to be, and even then i wasn't that great lol. What's your favorite campaign? I'm a bit of an oddball. Halo CE followed by Halo 4 are my favorite campaigns. Those would probably be followed by Halo 3. Some day I really need to go back and replay Halo Reach. It's my least favorite. At the time, I was so annoyed at all the changes in Reach that I probably played the whole campaign in a bad mood. So that probably didn't help.
 
Jun 12, 2018
362
560
210
#57
I think I'm a real oddball on my choices. We agree & disagree on favorites, I have 2; Halo 4 and Halo Reach. I do really love CE too. It seems like Halo 2 is most peoples favorite but it's the one I like the least and I'm probably one of about 5 people that really liked the Halo 5 campaign.
 
Aug 29, 2007
6,891
309
910
40
Land of the OKC Thunder
#58
I think I'm a real oddball on my choices. We agree & disagree on favorites, I have 2; Halo 4 and Halo Reach. I do really love CE too. It seems like Halo 2 is most peoples favorite but it's the one I like the least and I'm probably one of about 5 people that really liked the Halo 5 campaign.
Ha I'm not a big fan of Halo 2'c campaign either. It competes with Reach for my bottom spot. The change of the field of view from 120 degrees to something closer to 90 degrees bothered me a lot (i get motion sickness fairly easily for one), and the addition of brutes, as well as drones, also really soured me. - least favorite enemies in Halo. Oh and Halo 2 flood were awful. They just looked and felt cheap to kill. Some of the levels were good in Halo 2, but many of them i really disliked. I also didn't think the music was as memorable as CE's campaign, but then again, a lot of people love the Halo 2 soundtrack and the original halo score is kind of hard to compete against imo. While Halo 5's campaign didn't blow me away, I didn't hate it. Fighting the warden eternal repeatedly did get old really fast though, and I'm personally not a fan of squad AI. I like playing as a solo act with cortana or just any construct wayyyyy better.
 
Last edited:
Jun 12, 2018
362
560
210
#59
CE's music, especially the original Halo theme is the greatest ever in video game, although I think the opening theme for Reach rivals it. I think that's one of the many reasons I like Reach so much, plus the Halo way (Lone Wolf) they handled the tragic ending. It was so sad but not stupidly sentimental. You went out fighting like a Spartan. Plus the fact the hateful Flood were no where to be found 🤣
 
Jan 7, 2018
100
72
170
#60
Welcome to the thread Cat!

Glad to have ya whenever we can Moonman. 12 hour workshifts and the 24 hour work shift of a kiddo ain't no joke! Kudos for keeping up with all of it.

Tagging in on the conversation, Halo 3 I feel had the most "epic" campaign, with its massive fights and the space opera coming to a close. In terms of gameplay balance I think that Halo CE takes the cake with its heroic difficulty being the best in the series imo. Halo 2 for me did the best job of expanding the lore, and ODST was really cool in its atmosphere. Reach was an excellent attempt at delving into a more somber exploration of the Spartan's, but it sadly felt rushed in its execution and missed an opportunity to expand Eric Nylund's The Fall of Reach. While I'm not a fan of Halo 4 or 5 per se, I'd be hard pressed to say it doesn't have some moments. Halo 4 did a nice job of trying to humanize Chief, with some nice musical scores by Neil Davidge and Kazuma Jinnouchi. Halo 5 I really in terms of its close quarters levels, but the large scale battles haven't been good since Halo 3.

Overall each entry has something you can love about it, but I don't think that 343 has reached the level of any of the Bungie games. I reeeaally hope Infinite sticks that statement up my ass though.

I like the idea of health packs returning, but I'm weird and would also like fall damage to return as well. Halo 2 was fun because you never had to worry about falling off ledges, but fall damage in Halo CE added an extra amount of tension too. And I agree that the dual system in CE added just a little bit more to the game play. Health stations would work, but I think the idea of health stations on a map would be a bit odd. Like why would spartan health stations exist in the halo world? health packs are a bit more believable, like finding rations on a dead person or something,, but i realize in the end this is all make believe anyway.
I think Fall Damage is perfectly fine to want back. Though I would want that to be adjustable in mp and minimal in the campaign so as to maximize potential badassery. It really does make a difference when you can't just jump off a ledge to escape some enemies, and I really appreciate that kind of limitation. It makes the vertical map and encounter design all the more prominent. It's one of the things I love about CE's design.

Just because it's make believe doesn't mean it doesn't need to follow its own internal logic though. We ain't Half Life ;p
This might be a great chance to consider the equipment again that we discussed earlier. To compensate for there not being health packs always available, they could bring back the healing bubble shield from Reach. That thing was awesome imo.

Actually, one thing that I always found odd was how armor abilities weren't pick ups on the map in Reach. Sure you could set that up, but no matchmaking game type I can remember actually uitilized it. What if instead of being able to pick your ability at spawn, they acted as passive/permanent armor abilities when you pick them up? So you'd have pick ups like trip mines and semi permanent pick ups like the healing bubble shield.

EQUIPMENT (passive)
  • Bubble Shield
    • 30 seconds of use total
    • Puts out healing bubble shield field
    • User is unable to move while active, assuming a stance akin to armor lock
  • Invisibility
    • 20 seconds of use total
    • What do ya think it does?
    • Thrusting or sprinting will cause ghosting effect
  • Solar Flare
    • 5 charges
    • Blinds players within 15 meters for 3 seconds
    • Passive radar jamming effect which lasts 10 seconds
  • GRAPPLING HOOK
    • INFINITE CHARGES
    • IT HOOKS SHIT! WALLS! WEAPONS! WINNING! WHATEVER!
    • BECAUSE WHY NOT???
EQUIPMENT
  • Trip Mine
  • Grav Lift
  • Teleporter
    • 1 time use
    • Lasts 5 seconds
  • Sentry Turret
  • Repair Bot

So yeah I think you could go places with this. You'd have 1 button which can deploy a variety of different abilities that incorporates the best of both Reach and Halo 3's systems... I think. HOPE THIS WAS ENJOYABLE!
 
Likes: CatLady
Aug 29, 2007
6,891
309
910
40
Land of the OKC Thunder
#62
Ha well at least you got a lot of feedback. The issue with abilities is making them work in halo. I dont have a solution and i think that is why most people are against them entirely. In fairness to a lot of Halo fans we havent had traditional gameplay since halo 3, which was 2007. Over 10 years ago! I dont think we have seen a halo be truly successful with abilities, so id personally like 343 to give classic gameplay a go again. Long time halo fans deserve it at the very least. For 343 to do abilities in halo they really need to split halo into 2 separate games. CoD has thrived by it. Forza is doing well too.

Dont know if people saw this but that TMCC update went live today. Gonna have to tinker with classic and modern movement. It felt weird.


Also here is another update from waypoint discussing everything:
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/mcc-january-update
 
Last edited:
Likes: stickkidsam
Jan 7, 2018
100
72
170
#63
Be sure to let us know how it feels! My control sticks are borked, so the sensitivity is ruined sadly. Any time I barely tap it somewhere the camera swings at full speed. Hoping to pick a pro controller now.

I can definitely understand why people would want to just wipe the slate clean and jump back into some classic Halo. I guess for me, the ideas they are putting forward are things that me and my friends wanted to see for so long. Funny or badass assassinations, cool abilities that are tied to the core player arsenal, enhanced movement; this was all stuff I remember talking about way before Halo 4 or Reach were a thing. It's not that I don't love Halo as it is ya know?

It's that there isn't another game like Halo, and for me Halo is the shooter that is best suited to try out this new stuff. Hell, it doesn't need to be a mainline game either. Even if it's just spin offs I'd be okay with that.
 
Last edited:
Aug 29, 2007
6,891
309
910
40
Land of the OKC Thunder
#64
Yeah, I've been fishing that 'splitting halo into 2 separate games' idea for a while. I think it would work wonders honestly. Basically it keeps fans of traditional halo and fans that would like to see new stuff in halo, satisfied. Sorry to hear about your controller. If you can get an elite controller, they're pretty nice, but also ridiculously expensive. Have you tried cleaning your sticks with q-tips and rubbing alcohol? It doesn't work for everyone, but it can help. In the master chief collection settings, you can also change the dead zone settings of your controller. I had set mine to zero and it resulted in controller drift. After putting it back to 8% it went away. You can also slow down the acceleration, which might help your case a little bit.
 
Aug 29, 2007
6,891
309
910
40
Land of the OKC Thunder
#66
Interesting reading Bonnie Ross' comments today saying they feel they have made mistakes with Halo. I hope she isn't just talking about the story and is also making reference to some of the gameplay tweaks they've made.
You and the whole planet 😃 Halo 4's movement and even the feel of aiming and shooting was great, but the abilites combined with random and personal ordnance completely ruined any competitiveness. You cant give people abilities like promethean vision and expect players to take the game seriously. On the same token you cant give free invis and other abilities and expect an experience where competitive players are happy. Halo 5 multiplayer actually was an improvement but in my opinion was way too complex. You needed a controller with paddles or else you were at a disadvantage. TMCC should be more than enough proof that simple halo is the more appreciated and accessible halo imo. Not that abilities cant work. It is just way harder to find the right balance.
 
Mar 30, 2011
1,136
142
490
Southern California
#68
Oh my i've been away for a bit. that tends to happen with a 2 year old, family in town, and 12 hour work shifts. Trying to catch up and here are some happenings over the past 7 days or so:

Latest TMCC Patch Notes (1/9)

New Year's Halowaypoint Community Update (1/10)

UGC Halo Classic Tournament Results (1/14)


Halo Battle Born Novel Released


Halo: Lone Wolf issue #1 released


Finally, and I've been waiting for this (whatever this turns out to be), 343 has been working on a bigger update for TMCC, which got delayed last month. 343 says it will get released "soon" and after the UGC Halo event, which wrapped up yesterday. So expect it in the coming days I'd wager. From the Halowaypoint New Year's Update:
Nice thread, OP! Halo forever!

A young adult novel!?!? Looks like we're in for another T rated Halo! lol I'll still probably read it. Some YA novels are pretty good these days. I've been catching up on my Halo lore/novel backlog and finished The Cole Protocol, which I bought back when it first released. :messenger_grinning_smiling: Solid story and a fun read, with some great lore about a young Captain Keyes and Grey Team.

Was playing some Destiny 2 with my clan the other day and we decided to jump in and get some Halo: MCC action on and we all had a blast! It had been like six months since I last played some MCC/Halo 5. We were jamming in the Halo 2 (best Halo MP) and Halo 4 (highly underrated MP - amazing gun play, flow and maps) playlist and it felt sooo damn good. Started out kinda slow, but after a while I was posting a positive K/D ratio in matches.