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A question for those who have played both Dark Soals and Skyrim.
- Thread starter Osietra
- Start date
They should steal both the melee combat AND the online from Dark Souls, even if it's just the ghost image part.
I can't even count the number of times I jumped out of my seat because I looked away for a moment and then looked back at the screen and there was a ghost of another player beside my bonfire that I wasn't expecting, wearing a full suit of some armor that is typically seen on a tough enemy, making me think I was about to be attacked.
SO good.
revolverjgw
Member
Dark Souls's world is initially very impressive with its intricate interconnected zones, but by the end of the game it lost the plot and I just wanted it to stop. Some seriously shitty design in the later areas, with the nadir being that lava lake full of zombie dinosaur torsos.
I don't find the Souls series' action very compelling, really... it can be very janky, and once I broke Dark Souls by discovering there isn't a boss in the game that can stand up to a defense buffed dude with upgraded pyro for more than 15 seconds, I just went with that, almost feeling guilty.
But not TOO guilty... the general flow of these games can get on my nerves. Example, I'd be inching my way through that long forest, then encounter a giant hydra... fascinated, I'd cautiously fight my way closer to him and get one-shot when he saw me. Fine, next time I'll be more careful, I'd try something different, and then something different again.. eventually making the boring trip back to that area from the nearest bonfire just grated on my nerves. There was a lot of that... I'd fail at something, which was fine, but having to make my way back through long areas that no longer presented challenges would make me stop trying. The shortcuts and bonfires seemed awkwardly placed... sometimes they'd be convenient and encourage experimentation knowing I wouldn't waste too much time fighting my way back to a tricky spot, sometimes there would be ridiculously spaced out and made me not want to bother.
The atmosphere is intoxicating at times, and the reason I played through those two games, despite their often irritating design. Truly incredible stuff... I'd throw the controller down, but I'd come back and fight my way through a part I didn't find fun just because I HAD to see what was next.
Skyrim is more my thing overall, but of course its world and flow of adventure is a totally different beast. Aesthetically, I prefer its setting, and I definitely prefer the way you discover the world and interact with it (love being to save anytime so I can experiment with peace of mind). Both games are must-haves, the kind of experiences I'll remember 20 years down the line.
I don't find the Souls series' action very compelling, really... it can be very janky, and once I broke Dark Souls by discovering there isn't a boss in the game that can stand up to a defense buffed dude with upgraded pyro for more than 15 seconds, I just went with that, almost feeling guilty.
But not TOO guilty... the general flow of these games can get on my nerves. Example, I'd be inching my way through that long forest, then encounter a giant hydra... fascinated, I'd cautiously fight my way closer to him and get one-shot when he saw me. Fine, next time I'll be more careful, I'd try something different, and then something different again.. eventually making the boring trip back to that area from the nearest bonfire just grated on my nerves. There was a lot of that... I'd fail at something, which was fine, but having to make my way back through long areas that no longer presented challenges would make me stop trying. The shortcuts and bonfires seemed awkwardly placed... sometimes they'd be convenient and encourage experimentation knowing I wouldn't waste too much time fighting my way back to a tricky spot, sometimes there would be ridiculously spaced out and made me not want to bother.
The atmosphere is intoxicating at times, and the reason I played through those two games, despite their often irritating design. Truly incredible stuff... I'd throw the controller down, but I'd come back and fight my way through a part I didn't find fun just because I HAD to see what was next.
Skyrim is more my thing overall, but of course its world and flow of adventure is a totally different beast. Aesthetically, I prefer its setting, and I definitely prefer the way you discover the world and interact with it (love being to save anytime so I can experiment with peace of mind). Both games are must-haves, the kind of experiences I'll remember 20 years down the line.
Hitlersaurus Christ
Banned
Dark Soals? More like Dark SOLES, because it's so easy I could play it with my feet.
And Skyrim? Might as well call it Skyrimshot, because it's the punchline to the joke that is the Elder Scrolls series.
Thank you folks, I'll be here all night. Try the veal!
And Skyrim? Might as well call it Skyrimshot, because it's the punchline to the joke that is the Elder Scrolls series.
Thank you folks, I'll be here all night. Try the veal!
PantherAttacks
Member
Much preferred Dark Souls, due to the combat and difficulty. Skyrim felt quite flat in comparison, though it was fun to explore still.
Mr_Appleby
Member
i'm not serious... thought it was cute when i saw that in Skyrim. I think i remember the gametrailers thing. let's not dignify it with further mention
TheChewyWaffles
Member
No it's not.
Death Dealer
Member
It cannot be overstated, that Dark Souls was a big jump up from Demon's Souls in terms of exploration. I loved finding the shortcuts and how the world fits together. It's not as big of world as an Elderscrolls game, but for the game that it is, it seems to go on forever. And the way everything is connected is such great design. I loved discovering new areas in Dark Souls. It's got an intangible atmosphere. I get scared playing it.
In contrast to the open world sandbox feel, Dark Souls universe feels hand crafted during each encounter, like a DM thought out every scenario as part of a larger cohesive module, instead of random stuff happening with a "simulated" world
These are basically my feelings on DS as well. DS feels like a gift specially made for you, each corner and enemy encounter posed to create a different challenge. It's really hard to compare DS to anything happening in contemporary gaming because DS doesn't have much wasted space.
dark souls is a pretty unique experience that makes it appealing i think, really, the online, co--op, covenants were awesome.
in demon souls, getting summoned by the game as one of the stage's boss was pretty mindblowing. It's done differently in Dark souls via covenants but it's these little things that make it stand out.
the world feels alive yet not, it's hard to describe.
in demon souls, getting summoned by the game as one of the stage's boss was pretty mindblowing. It's done differently in Dark souls via covenants but it's these little things that make it stand out.
the world feels alive yet not, it's hard to describe.
Oh,you're one of those who needs the story spoon fed to you. The story is right there under all items/weapons/armor description,you just need to piece it together.
I was making a comparison between the two, of course Dark Souls had a story and I loved it. Same way I loved Shadow of the Colossus's story, it leaves a lot for the brain to fill in.
I told myself I wasnt going to buy Dark Souls, I didnt like th interviews I kept reading, where the dev was cackling at the guy dying in different ways. It seemed like they were going to go out of their way to make it unenjoyable. I walked into EB to put money on Batman :AC, and saw the god awesome cover for Dark Souls, and impulse bought it. 3 weeks later, I came out of my Dark Souls stupor, a platinum better, and incredibly satisfied. I didnt think any game would top that feeling I achieved when I beat ng++++.
I bought Skyrim, and I havent stopped playing that, either. I feel like a part of something, in the game. I love it to death, it fulfills like everything I'd want in a WRPG.
Maybe it's due to there being not so many out, but Skyrim is just amazing, and even though I've experienced som annoying bugs, and had to replay a section or two, I love it, and think it might be a bit better than Dark Souls. Both are buggy, and have frame rate issues. But I feel Skyrim gives me more, and I feel like I understand it better. Dark Souls felt like amazing sex with a stranger; satisfying, and I want more, but I dont know her, or why she wanted to jump my bones. Skyrim is like doing it with your moderately hot wife, who stutters.
I have no fucking idea where any of this came from, I started typing, then something happened, then this was on the page.
Enjoy.
I bought Skyrim, and I havent stopped playing that, either. I feel like a part of something, in the game. I love it to death, it fulfills like everything I'd want in a WRPG.
Maybe it's due to there being not so many out, but Skyrim is just amazing, and even though I've experienced som annoying bugs, and had to replay a section or two, I love it, and think it might be a bit better than Dark Souls. Both are buggy, and have frame rate issues. But I feel Skyrim gives me more, and I feel like I understand it better. Dark Souls felt like amazing sex with a stranger; satisfying, and I want more, but I dont know her, or why she wanted to jump my bones. Skyrim is like doing it with your moderately hot wife, who stutters.
I have no fucking idea where any of this came from, I started typing, then something happened, then this was on the page.
Enjoy.
Mario. eats pancakes for breakfast.
archnemesis
Member
I beat both and I prefer Skyrim, even though they're difficult to compare.
Dark Souls. It's not even a question.
Combat: Dark Souls combat consists of a small number of base mechanics, that all have depth, and are very tightly interwoven. Combat is based on the player being alert, aware, and careful at all times - no matter how far you get in the game, all but the weakest enemies can kill you in a handful of strikes, but it works the other way, too: Most enemies who are much stronger than you will still go down in a comparatively small number of hits, provided that you're good enough to watch for and exploit their openings, while avoiding their attacks. The tools are provided for you to do both these things, with various lock-on, blocking, rolling, etc mechanics. If you can damage it, you can kill it. In Skyrim, combat is based on an even smaller number of mechanics, with little clear relation to one another. Weak enemies will crumple as you breathe on them, and strong enemies basically cannot be defeated in a head-on fight, unless you exploit the poor AI to get them stuck on level geometry while you take a breather. Worse, there are tons of characters that are completely arbitrarily immortal. Not just a handful of plot-necessary main characters, either - you can find some little camp out in the middle of goddamn nowhere, with four people in it, and one of them will be immortal. You can get in a fight with them, and they can kill you, and you can reduce their HP to zero, but they just take a knee and get back up again, 20 seconds later - and they'll still be hostile, so not only can you never kill them, but your only option is to quit the fight entirely.
Exploration: In Dark Souls, exploration involves looking for and finding deliberate, hand-crafted items, areas, and secrets. Every area is completely distinct from one another, and you visit places as varied as a volcanic area filled with magma and demons, to a blue beach with white sand and massive trees in the distance, from a run-down medieval town with thatched roofs, to a city made for giants filled with pristine, fine architecture, and from a perpetually snowy, mountainous region, to a city that's been buried underwater, filled with ghosts who are not only immune to any weapon that hasn't been cursed, but can stalk you through walls or pop out of the floor to surround you. When you go off the beaten path, you'll find hidden passages that interconnect the world, not only contributing to the game's sense of place, but providing tangible gameplay bonuses that make you feel as though you're mastering the game world. When you explore every nook and cranny of an area, you'll find caches of items that contain unique magical weapons, or suits of armour that are found nowhere else in the game. The act of exploration itself is an exciting risk, because every area has the potential to be dangerous, and you're limited to an 'adventuring day' by a relatively small number of healing items that you can carry, a limited number of spells that you can cast between resting, etc.
In Skyrim, exploration involves walking across an overworld that is almost 100% comprised of some combination of: Grey rocks. Grey-green grass and foliage. Snow. There's little thrill in walking from place to place, as not only is the terrain homogenous, but you'll only rarely encounter actual enemies to fight, and in almost all cases the combination of wide-open spaces and sparse enemy count mean that, if all else fails, just run past them - there's no risk in it. When you actually find a real location in your exploration, in the vast majority of cases it turns out to be a cave, small keep, or ruined dungeon, using the exact same tilesets that you've seen in the first hour of gameplay. If the location is not used as part of a quest, it probably consists of between three and five rooms, filled with nondescript, usually level-appropriate enemies, and your reward for clearing it out is usually a chest or two containing a worthwhile-but-appropriate-for-your-level amount of gold, some level-appropriate gems, and a couple pieces of level-appropriate weapons or armour. Sometimes you'll find a book. And even in areas that are part of a quest, you're largely looking at the same tilesets, solving the same puzzles with the 'fish, eagle, snake' rotating pillars, fighting the same kinds of undead, etc. There's no such thing as an 'adventuring day', because your spell-casting resources continually regenerate, including those used to heal you, and because if you do run out of items, carrying space, etc, it's no big deal to walk back to the entrance, fast-travel back to a town, restock and dump your loot, and then fast-travel back, because all the enemies you killed and all the progress you made will still be there waiting for you. There aren't any interesting environments to see, you're never in any danger going from place to place, and you'll almost never find any items that are useful enough to be interesting.
Story: Dark Souls opens with a skippable CG intro, then a cutscene that lasts less than a minute, and then you're playing the game. Once you get into the game proper, you quickly notice one thing: The world isn't in danger and it doesn't need someone to be a hero and stop the bad things from happening. The bad things already happened. The world is already fucked. You don't get to be a big hero. The best that you can do is to put things back together so that the world can rise from the ashes. There are two choices you can make regarding how best to go about that - but one of them is deliberately not mentioned by anyone you 'normally' run into during the game, and found only by exploration. The cast of the game is small, but every single one is an actual character, who you can interact with and help progress, or ignore, or kill, as you please. The game doesn't tell you that they're there, or where they are, or what they're up to, and many of them will continue to do their thing with or without you, which means that you may or may not ever see them again, and depending on how you interacted with them, they may turn into an enemy. The actual story is told like mythology; the details aren't important, and aren't presented to you unless you look for them - and even if you do, they can be vague, and open to theorizing and interpretation.
Skyrim opens with a completely unskippable, absolutely interminable five minute ride in the back of a cart, looking at scenery that gets boring after the first fifteen seconds or so, and listening to two idiot characters have an incredibly stilted conversation, about what a Nord should do if he finds a fly in his soup, that High Elves never pee standing up, etc. This is followed by a really obviously and badly scripted escape sequence, and then you finally get to the tutorial dungeon. From there, the plot of the game is very bog standard "The [x] threaten to destroy the world, and only you, the chosen one, can stop them!" It's spoon-fed to you over the course of plenty of (mostly unskippable) conversations where people talk at you. Choices are clearly outlined, and it's mostly just a matter of checking off a list. "Okay, did this one, next playthrough I'll go the other way." Almost none of the game's characters are actual characters; most are just a name, a generated character model, and a few little routines. Nobody has anything interesting going on unless they're part of a main plotline, and if they are part of a main plotline, then you can't avoid them if you want to complete the game.
Playing Dark Souls was a lot of fun, from a few seconds after you start up the game, to the point where you beat the last boss (and beyond that, if you play New Game+). It was a constant series of seeing new things that you'd never run into before, having interesting and challenging boss fights that were different every time, finding new items, new places, and new paths from place to place. Every new thing that you did involved learning - learning enemy patterns and weaknesses, learning where the environmental hazards are and where to avoid them, learning how to be more efficient with the tools you've been given, to make it from one resting place to another.
Playing Skyrim was hour after hour of searching around desperately for something to do that you could actually give a shit about, and mostly coming up empty. Nothing really matters, and everything is the same. You can go wherever you want, and there's basically nothing along the way that will challenge or even really discourage you from doing so. It's like eating a big bowl of rice, with nothing on the side, and nothing to give it flavour. Will it fill you up? Sure. Are you going to even really taste it? No.
Combat: Dark Souls combat consists of a small number of base mechanics, that all have depth, and are very tightly interwoven. Combat is based on the player being alert, aware, and careful at all times - no matter how far you get in the game, all but the weakest enemies can kill you in a handful of strikes, but it works the other way, too: Most enemies who are much stronger than you will still go down in a comparatively small number of hits, provided that you're good enough to watch for and exploit their openings, while avoiding their attacks. The tools are provided for you to do both these things, with various lock-on, blocking, rolling, etc mechanics. If you can damage it, you can kill it. In Skyrim, combat is based on an even smaller number of mechanics, with little clear relation to one another. Weak enemies will crumple as you breathe on them, and strong enemies basically cannot be defeated in a head-on fight, unless you exploit the poor AI to get them stuck on level geometry while you take a breather. Worse, there are tons of characters that are completely arbitrarily immortal. Not just a handful of plot-necessary main characters, either - you can find some little camp out in the middle of goddamn nowhere, with four people in it, and one of them will be immortal. You can get in a fight with them, and they can kill you, and you can reduce their HP to zero, but they just take a knee and get back up again, 20 seconds later - and they'll still be hostile, so not only can you never kill them, but your only option is to quit the fight entirely.
Exploration: In Dark Souls, exploration involves looking for and finding deliberate, hand-crafted items, areas, and secrets. Every area is completely distinct from one another, and you visit places as varied as a volcanic area filled with magma and demons, to a blue beach with white sand and massive trees in the distance, from a run-down medieval town with thatched roofs, to a city made for giants filled with pristine, fine architecture, and from a perpetually snowy, mountainous region, to a city that's been buried underwater, filled with ghosts who are not only immune to any weapon that hasn't been cursed, but can stalk you through walls or pop out of the floor to surround you. When you go off the beaten path, you'll find hidden passages that interconnect the world, not only contributing to the game's sense of place, but providing tangible gameplay bonuses that make you feel as though you're mastering the game world. When you explore every nook and cranny of an area, you'll find caches of items that contain unique magical weapons, or suits of armour that are found nowhere else in the game. The act of exploration itself is an exciting risk, because every area has the potential to be dangerous, and you're limited to an 'adventuring day' by a relatively small number of healing items that you can carry, a limited number of spells that you can cast between resting, etc.
In Skyrim, exploration involves walking across an overworld that is almost 100% comprised of some combination of: Grey rocks. Grey-green grass and foliage. Snow. There's little thrill in walking from place to place, as not only is the terrain homogenous, but you'll only rarely encounter actual enemies to fight, and in almost all cases the combination of wide-open spaces and sparse enemy count mean that, if all else fails, just run past them - there's no risk in it. When you actually find a real location in your exploration, in the vast majority of cases it turns out to be a cave, small keep, or ruined dungeon, using the exact same tilesets that you've seen in the first hour of gameplay. If the location is not used as part of a quest, it probably consists of between three and five rooms, filled with nondescript, usually level-appropriate enemies, and your reward for clearing it out is usually a chest or two containing a worthwhile-but-appropriate-for-your-level amount of gold, some level-appropriate gems, and a couple pieces of level-appropriate weapons or armour. Sometimes you'll find a book. And even in areas that are part of a quest, you're largely looking at the same tilesets, solving the same puzzles with the 'fish, eagle, snake' rotating pillars, fighting the same kinds of undead, etc. There's no such thing as an 'adventuring day', because your spell-casting resources continually regenerate, including those used to heal you, and because if you do run out of items, carrying space, etc, it's no big deal to walk back to the entrance, fast-travel back to a town, restock and dump your loot, and then fast-travel back, because all the enemies you killed and all the progress you made will still be there waiting for you. There aren't any interesting environments to see, you're never in any danger going from place to place, and you'll almost never find any items that are useful enough to be interesting.
Story: Dark Souls opens with a skippable CG intro, then a cutscene that lasts less than a minute, and then you're playing the game. Once you get into the game proper, you quickly notice one thing: The world isn't in danger and it doesn't need someone to be a hero and stop the bad things from happening. The bad things already happened. The world is already fucked. You don't get to be a big hero. The best that you can do is to put things back together so that the world can rise from the ashes. There are two choices you can make regarding how best to go about that - but one of them is deliberately not mentioned by anyone you 'normally' run into during the game, and found only by exploration. The cast of the game is small, but every single one is an actual character, who you can interact with and help progress, or ignore, or kill, as you please. The game doesn't tell you that they're there, or where they are, or what they're up to, and many of them will continue to do their thing with or without you, which means that you may or may not ever see them again, and depending on how you interacted with them, they may turn into an enemy. The actual story is told like mythology; the details aren't important, and aren't presented to you unless you look for them - and even if you do, they can be vague, and open to theorizing and interpretation.
Skyrim opens with a completely unskippable, absolutely interminable five minute ride in the back of a cart, looking at scenery that gets boring after the first fifteen seconds or so, and listening to two idiot characters have an incredibly stilted conversation, about what a Nord should do if he finds a fly in his soup, that High Elves never pee standing up, etc. This is followed by a really obviously and badly scripted escape sequence, and then you finally get to the tutorial dungeon. From there, the plot of the game is very bog standard "The [x] threaten to destroy the world, and only you, the chosen one, can stop them!" It's spoon-fed to you over the course of plenty of (mostly unskippable) conversations where people talk at you. Choices are clearly outlined, and it's mostly just a matter of checking off a list. "Okay, did this one, next playthrough I'll go the other way." Almost none of the game's characters are actual characters; most are just a name, a generated character model, and a few little routines. Nobody has anything interesting going on unless they're part of a main plotline, and if they are part of a main plotline, then you can't avoid them if you want to complete the game.
Playing Dark Souls was a lot of fun, from a few seconds after you start up the game, to the point where you beat the last boss (and beyond that, if you play New Game+). It was a constant series of seeing new things that you'd never run into before, having interesting and challenging boss fights that were different every time, finding new items, new places, and new paths from place to place. Every new thing that you did involved learning - learning enemy patterns and weaknesses, learning where the environmental hazards are and where to avoid them, learning how to be more efficient with the tools you've been given, to make it from one resting place to another.
Playing Skyrim was hour after hour of searching around desperately for something to do that you could actually give a shit about, and mostly coming up empty. Nothing really matters, and everything is the same. You can go wherever you want, and there's basically nothing along the way that will challenge or even really discourage you from doing so. It's like eating a big bowl of rice, with nothing on the side, and nothing to give it flavour. Will it fill you up? Sure. Are you going to even really taste it? No.
FreeMufasa
Junior Member
Dark Souls by far. Skyrim put me to sleep.
I remember this IGN article - http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/119/1196353p1.html and the GAF reaction to it. In the thread I said it was a stupid article, they're different types of games, and that Skyrim is the one for me (having played Demon's Souls). I bought Dark Souls thanks to GAF-hype and having liked the combat and atmosphere in DeS a lot. This impulse buy has pretty much cemented itself in my mind as game of the generation.
I still think it's a stupid article, but I was wrong about Skyrim being the better game for me. I got Dark Souls a couple of weeks after release, and not even Batman:AC or Uncharted 3 or Skyrim could/can pull me away from it for long. I keep coming back. The co-op is so great. I could fight those bosses all day (which is pretty much what I do). My character build is a mess of misunderstanding and experimentation with the leveling/stat system, so i'm not exactly the most efficent PVP build, but I still have a lot of fun with it. I'm 140 hours in and "only" on NG+. I'm pretty far from getting the trophies and some of them just seem too tedious but maybe I'll eventually get them. On this playthrough I tried a couple of different covenants, and killed an optional boss that I've never fought before. There's certain pitch black and ghost-ridden areas I can live without, but other than that the level design in Dark Souls is absolute genius, as is the combat, the online implementation, and the general atmosphere.
I am enjoying my time with Skyrim. The combat does feel bad compared to DS - there's no question about that. It's satisfying in terms of upgrading your equipment and seeing a greater damage output or figuring out a new strategy, but as soon as an enemy sees you, 90% of the time all nearby enemies just rush straight at you while they take your arrows and firebolts to the face (some of them might have shields but thats about it). You can pause the game at any moment and switch up your strategy when an enemy gets in range for a certain attack. Dark Souls requires much more deliberate planning and a more flawless execution. Every enemy has its own attack patterns, and yeah sometimes you can glitch the AI to get stuck on something or whatever, but the majority of the time you're taking them out with a more legitimate strategy in mind. Lure one out, wait for this attack, parry after this one, etc. it takes trial and error but moreso, it takes patience. At one point your brain will just say "fuck this" and you'll enter a zen-like state of frame-perfect combat.
I do like the million little things you can do in Skyrim. It feels aimless to me at times, because you're so overwhelmed with options, but then I remember my time with Fallout 3. And how I spent hours in that game just waiting for chems to be made in my clandestine lab in my house to sell them in my sexy sleepwear for the best price. And then I realize that Skyrim has tons of similar routines that you can get hooked into doing. And so far, I think the dungeon design has been great. But, again, the level design in Dark Souls is just awesome, connected with the same beauty and attention to detail as say, Metroid Prime. The fact that the game makes you live with your consequences perfectly matches up with the design philosophy that it all just starts over again when you beat it. It's another example of the game being punishing and then rewarding.
Sort of a rambling post. Again, I'm enjoying Skyrim. But Dark Souls is some top echelon shit. Also - i'm pretty terrified of Skyrim becoming unplayable soon (I have the PS3 version).
I still think it's a stupid article, but I was wrong about Skyrim being the better game for me. I got Dark Souls a couple of weeks after release, and not even Batman:AC or Uncharted 3 or Skyrim could/can pull me away from it for long. I keep coming back. The co-op is so great. I could fight those bosses all day (which is pretty much what I do). My character build is a mess of misunderstanding and experimentation with the leveling/stat system, so i'm not exactly the most efficent PVP build, but I still have a lot of fun with it. I'm 140 hours in and "only" on NG+. I'm pretty far from getting the trophies and some of them just seem too tedious but maybe I'll eventually get them. On this playthrough I tried a couple of different covenants, and killed an optional boss that I've never fought before. There's certain pitch black and ghost-ridden areas I can live without, but other than that the level design in Dark Souls is absolute genius, as is the combat, the online implementation, and the general atmosphere.
I am enjoying my time with Skyrim. The combat does feel bad compared to DS - there's no question about that. It's satisfying in terms of upgrading your equipment and seeing a greater damage output or figuring out a new strategy, but as soon as an enemy sees you, 90% of the time all nearby enemies just rush straight at you while they take your arrows and firebolts to the face (some of them might have shields but thats about it). You can pause the game at any moment and switch up your strategy when an enemy gets in range for a certain attack. Dark Souls requires much more deliberate planning and a more flawless execution. Every enemy has its own attack patterns, and yeah sometimes you can glitch the AI to get stuck on something or whatever, but the majority of the time you're taking them out with a more legitimate strategy in mind. Lure one out, wait for this attack, parry after this one, etc. it takes trial and error but moreso, it takes patience. At one point your brain will just say "fuck this" and you'll enter a zen-like state of frame-perfect combat.
I do like the million little things you can do in Skyrim. It feels aimless to me at times, because you're so overwhelmed with options, but then I remember my time with Fallout 3. And how I spent hours in that game just waiting for chems to be made in my clandestine lab in my house to sell them in my sexy sleepwear for the best price. And then I realize that Skyrim has tons of similar routines that you can get hooked into doing. And so far, I think the dungeon design has been great. But, again, the level design in Dark Souls is just awesome, connected with the same beauty and attention to detail as say, Metroid Prime. The fact that the game makes you live with your consequences perfectly matches up with the design philosophy that it all just starts over again when you beat it. It's another example of the game being punishing and then rewarding.
Sort of a rambling post. Again, I'm enjoying Skyrim. But Dark Souls is some top echelon shit. Also - i'm pretty terrified of Skyrim becoming unplayable soon (I have the PS3 version).
Not at all. Your first time through might be more fun offline, tbh.
I would guess you can't pause because it's online.
sriously, ok becaue ive been hearing you "NEED" coop in order to advance. good to know as thats what has been keeping me from buying it... anywhere I can get this on sale?
Pretty much this.
It's definitely easier in coop, but the game seems most balanced for single-player.
Skyrim's scaling enemies and loot hold the game back bigtime. It boggles my mind why such a system would be implemented. It's lazy, cheap and terribly unfulfilling.
It's fun enough to explore Skyrim's world and do a billion different quests, but ultimately the rewards aren't really worth it. I said it before, but Skyrim makes me feel like a chump for sinking so many hours into a carrot-dangling fest. It's addictive, the world is nice and the quests can be fun, but looting the same old scaled gear with a few magic charges, and opening yet another chest with a few gold, a couple potions and soul gem at the end of one of hundreds of identical caves full of the usual Draugr is pretty much my definition of getting 'trolled'. Not to mention the countless issues and bugs that have been around since Morrowind.
The two games can't really be compared. I do like Skyrim, but Dark Souls gets my vote hands down. It's an astonishing game.
It's fun enough to explore Skyrim's world and do a billion different quests, but ultimately the rewards aren't really worth it. I said it before, but Skyrim makes me feel like a chump for sinking so many hours into a carrot-dangling fest. It's addictive, the world is nice and the quests can be fun, but looting the same old scaled gear with a few magic charges, and opening yet another chest with a few gold, a couple potions and soul gem at the end of one of hundreds of identical caves full of the usual Draugr is pretty much my definition of getting 'trolled'. Not to mention the countless issues and bugs that have been around since Morrowind.
The two games can't really be compared. I do like Skyrim, but Dark Souls gets my vote hands down. It's an astonishing game.
As I am 130 hours in Skyrim, I was thinking "what if this used Dark Souls engine for the combat?" Game of the Forever then.
Skyrim is a Great game, I'm doing everything I come across quest wise and still not close to finishing... But the combat is lacking. Dark Souls owned it in that regard. Each weapon in DS has a different 'feel' to them. I can not tell the difference in swinging a sword, dagger or axe in Skyrim, and while the engine is much improved over Oblivions, its still the same type of combat. Hopefully ES VI improves it even more (more like DS I hope)
If those two developers joined forces... the world would be mended.
Skyrim is a Great game, I'm doing everything I come across quest wise and still not close to finishing... But the combat is lacking. Dark Souls owned it in that regard. Each weapon in DS has a different 'feel' to them. I can not tell the difference in swinging a sword, dagger or axe in Skyrim, and while the engine is much improved over Oblivions, its still the same type of combat. Hopefully ES VI improves it even more (more like DS I hope)
If those two developers joined forces... the world would be mended.
you rock!!!
Dark Souls is infinitely superior. There isn't a metric large enough to describe the gap between the two in quality.
But Skyrim is still a good game and if you don't like a challenge, get that instead. Dark Souls will beat you down and that's not your style then opt for the easy answer.
But Skyrim is still a good game and if you don't like a challenge, get that instead. Dark Souls will beat you down and that's not your style then opt for the easy answer.
Hmmm seems Dark Souls is fun. Will have to look into this.
It really, really is. I tell all my friends who get into it from the start: You need to re-evaluate your gaming priorities. If you're afraid to die then just avoid it. But death in the Dark Souls games is a process, it's like the hammer against the sword against the anvil. It's forming you, molding you into a better player. And it's very nearly always your fault for death, for not being patient and meticulous enough in your travels. Only bosses are really the exception, sometimes you just have to learn their shit. And when you trek back through that incredibly difficult dungeon to reclaim the 20,000 souls you left behind on the precipitous ledge while eighteen horrific lizards and tree things chase you down and someone invades your game and you decide you better just jump than face the indignity of another death by the computers OR the PC's hand after you made the journey to get back there, you will understand the game. you will enter zen mode. you will become one with the circuits in your PS360, your eyes will flutter and you will know gaming and you will fall in love with it all over again.
MuddyDonut
Member
I honestly got tired of reading your sales pitch here, please please never write reviews.
Gorgon
Member
This pretty much sums it up. Ambience and atmosphere depends a lot on players preferences. For me it's DS easily. But the "problem" with DS is not the difficulty per se, but the grinding. Everytime you die you have to go trough the same shit over and over again. If you don't have the time or patience for it, then you'll just set the game aside. This is particularly true for the bosses. You can very well go through most places if you play carefully, but when you find most mini-bosses and big bosses chances are you will die more than once, unless you've preparede yourself by watching videos and trying to cheese. And that's when your patience will be tested. Since you can't try again from the same spot ypu'll have to grind your way again to the same spot. Some times it takes 15-20 minutes or so just to get to the same place to tey again, and you'll do many times over and over again. It's fucking patience stretching.
On the other hand, combat in DS is far superior to Skyrim, indeed, far superior to anything else out there. I play a mage in Skyrim because magic is loads of fun, but h-to-h combat in Skyrim is shit.
Overall, I'll take Skyrim over Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, only because I find myself without any patience to grind the same spots over and over sagain in Dark Souls. I put that game away as soon as I got Skyrim. Which is a petty, because I love the atmosphere and vibe of DS.
I'll be able to make a comparison for myself today. I've had Skyrim since launch, but I picked up DS on a whim yesterday. Looking forward to checking it out. I have been afraid to play Skyrim too much until they get out the fix for the save file size issue on the PS3, so DS is probably what I'll be putting my extra time into for the time being.
if u have pc and console skyrim takes the cake ezpz with all aspect except the combat
if u only have consoles then Dark souls wins because u will get shitty fps in both games and the shitty resolution won't make you appreciate the art of skyrim at all.
plus pc got mods to fix and add tons of stuff.
if u only have consoles then Dark souls wins because u will get shitty fps in both games and the shitty resolution won't make you appreciate the art of skyrim at all.
plus pc got mods to fix and add tons of stuff.
Technosteve
Banned
I don't think you can compare the two games that approach the game play from vastly different philosophies.
Dark Soals is a rogue like while Skyrim is wizardry like. They have different goals in terms of story telling and game play. The combat in Skyrim is held back, because of the first person perspective, and it's a choice they made. Althought I need to go play that fps Might and Magic game I heard it does combat very well. I enjoyed the hell out of Dark Soals but I love Skyrim more because it has more of the RPGness vs Dark Soals survival adventure. Combat wins for Dark Soals because well Skyrim combat is simply shit. Story telling, is a tie the lack of direct exposition in Dark Soals is a great way to tell a story through the art, level design and periphery quest you get. It always seems like we will give you this nugget and it's up to you to piece the story around it. Skyrim the story and exposition exists to make the player feel they are living in the world. The great thing about it is that story is being told around you and not at you. You have the choice to completely ignor it and create your own personal narrative of what is going on in this world.
A compromise of both styles would be Risen.
Dark Soals is a rogue like while Skyrim is wizardry like. They have different goals in terms of story telling and game play. The combat in Skyrim is held back, because of the first person perspective, and it's a choice they made. Althought I need to go play that fps Might and Magic game I heard it does combat very well. I enjoyed the hell out of Dark Soals but I love Skyrim more because it has more of the RPGness vs Dark Soals survival adventure. Combat wins for Dark Soals because well Skyrim combat is simply shit. Story telling, is a tie the lack of direct exposition in Dark Soals is a great way to tell a story through the art, level design and periphery quest you get. It always seems like we will give you this nugget and it's up to you to piece the story around it. Skyrim the story and exposition exists to make the player feel they are living in the world. The great thing about it is that story is being told around you and not at you. You have the choice to completely ignor it and create your own personal narrative of what is going on in this world.
A compromise of both styles would be Risen.
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