-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
A Use For SteamOS Appeared: $0.00
- Thread starter Crayon
- Start date
DownGrader
Member
I think the sentence is supposed to mean "the reason to use SteamOS: it's free".
Sorry, OP, it's really hard to understand you.
fudgey_lumpkins
Member
You can deselect the steam OS and controller. Although, I don't see how this is any different than ordering a Big Mac and asking for no Mac Sauce and no middle bun. This is a non-issue in my opinion. It comes with the prerequisite items required for the label but you have the option to have them removed. I don't see how being forced to accept something you don't want is any better.
By some, you mean .001 % right? Because that is best case scenario. The whole steamOS thing (like their controller) (like steamboxes) are terrible ideas, imho
Come back to this thread in 2 years and see for yourself.
We have a winner! The guy speaks truth
How is the steam controller a "terrible idea", exactly?
Crayon
Member
I thought the same, but then I noticed it's the title of that page.
Don't be sorry, that's my fault. I didn't expect so many people here had no idea that steam machines where supposed to com with steamos.
The point is not that steamos is free, its that it is in this case being offered as the 0 dollar option alongside windows. That goes against what valve has defined as a steam machine. I think steamos makes way more sense as an option alongside windows. Otherwise we end up with a situation like the alienware alpha (windows) vs alienware steam machine (steamos). It's a less confusing and more natural situation if steam machines come with steamos as a basic os and windows as an upgrade.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I think the OP makes a good point.
SteamOS isn't necessarily meant to be used. It's meant to sell living room PCs at console-like prices without the need for the Windows tax.
SteamOS isn't necessarily meant to be used. It's meant to sell living room PCs at console-like prices without the need for the Windows tax.
heroe_galego
Neo Member
Agree, it´s a small price for a big difference
Party Popper
Member
How is SteamOS an alternative to noOS when I can install it anywhere for free? (Yup, even on those noOS systems)
Welcome to linux op hahaha
Welcome to linux op hahaha
Crayon
Member
While it can be used a bit, the most important part is that the machine is functional for using steam at least when you op out of the windows pre install. Coupled with the steam branding and it's a novel way to pitch a prebuilt gaming pc.
unapersson
Member
Yes, it's been in place for a long time. That's why even when you get places like Dell selling Linux machines you won't see a dual boot option. They've even made it more difficult with their SecureBoot requirements (with Win8 OEMs had to provide the option to switch it off, but I think that's gone with Win10).
I think the SteamOS initiative is a fine idea that is going to have no meaningful industry impact, at least not immediately. It's maybe going to have a slow burn, but it's not going to change anything overnight.
I think encouraging developers to support Linux when there are no serious technical/financial barriers to doing so is a good thing. I think hardware manufacturers putting a greater emphasis on small form factor gaming PCs is a good thing. I think Valve throwing their weight behind both of these is a good thing, but anyone expecting more than slight shifts from Valve's hardware and software partners are setting themselves up for disappointment.
These are pretty small changes on the whole. Valve aren't actually getting in the console space, just making moves to expand PC gaming slight more into console gaming's turf, and only the kind of moves they can make without becoming a hardware giant or taking any significant risks.
I think encouraging developers to support Linux when there are no serious technical/financial barriers to doing so is a good thing. I think hardware manufacturers putting a greater emphasis on small form factor gaming PCs is a good thing. I think Valve throwing their weight behind both of these is a good thing, but anyone expecting more than slight shifts from Valve's hardware and software partners are setting themselves up for disappointment.
These are pretty small changes on the whole. Valve aren't actually getting in the console space, just making moves to expand PC gaming slight more into console gaming's turf, and only the kind of moves they can make without becoming a hardware giant or taking any significant risks.
TheHellsLord
Member
I think it depens on the definition what a Steam Machine is.
If you think about something like Intel's Centrino Logo the machine has to have certain properties (namely: Chipset, Wifi Chip, Processor by Intel).
Or if you look at Ultrabooks there are also certain mandates on when the term might be used in marketing as it's an Intel Trademark.
Many previously assumed that in order to be allowed to call something a Steam Machine it must come with SteamOS installed period. What's new here is that it is sufficient to have Steam boot directly into Big Picture Mode even when there is no SteamOS installed.
In this case it's an option to go to Windows but higher priced machines over time might default to just installing Windows and still being labeled Steam Machines. Interesting to see how this will develop.
If you think about something like Intel's Centrino Logo the machine has to have certain properties (namely: Chipset, Wifi Chip, Processor by Intel).
Or if you look at Ultrabooks there are also certain mandates on when the term might be used in marketing as it's an Intel Trademark.
Many previously assumed that in order to be allowed to call something a Steam Machine it must come with SteamOS installed period. What's new here is that it is sufficient to have Steam boot directly into Big Picture Mode even when there is no SteamOS installed.
In this case it's an option to go to Windows but higher priced machines over time might default to just installing Windows and still being labeled Steam Machines. Interesting to see how this will develop.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yeah that sounds right.
I think it's a lot more clever of an idea than people give it credit for.
If it is underpowered compared to Windows, or doesn't play as many games as Windows, that's unfortunate... but it really doesn't invalidate the core point of it which is to get around the Hard Problem that PCs usually need $100 Windows.
Steam machines get people into the Steam ecosystem. Even if they upgrade to Windows, great... they are still going to surely be invested in the Steam ecosystem.
Doh! I still think it's a little eh...since it's called the "Drift."
The alienware Steam Machine is called the "Alienware Steam Machine" and the ones made by Syber(Cyberpower) are "Steam Machine" and a letter or something.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Free OS is free.
News at eleven.
News at eleven.
The bottom line is... who cares?
Who cares what is called a steam machine and what isn't?
It's not like being called a "Steam Machine" changes the devices capabilities, a "Steam Machine" with Windows installed can do everything and more than one with Steam OS; and do it faster.
Arguing what is and what is not a "Steam Machine" is pure semantics, my Alienware X51 is technically a "Steam Machine" for all intents and purpose.
Crayon
Member
On the maingear page, I don't think there is a mention of any strait-to-bpm setup or hivemind-like ui. We may be looking at a situation where the system only needs to offer steamos as a base option to be called a steam machine.
Interesting. Because maingear here is definitely offering a dual boot option:
I suppose microsoft could give a pass on a case by case basis?
While I realize Steam Link fulfills this purpose, but I had an old PC laying around that I occasionally used for various purposes, but when the in-home streaming beta started, I found a permanent use for it: Leave it plugged into my TV and use it for in-home streaming from my actual PC. Works pretty well too, as in fact during the last week I was playing Fallout 4 in my living room with a Steam Controller in 60FPS. Even when I'm not using in-home streaming, there is still some smaller use I can get out of it. I can run lower system requirement games like Binding of Isaac Rebirth on it with no problem for instance.
And of course like the OP said, it was a free Linux-based OS I could put on this computer. I didn't have to worry about buying an extra copy of Windows or anything like that. Plus every time I turn it on it updates, so that part is made easy.
And of course like the OP said, it was a free Linux-based OS I could put on this computer. I didn't have to worry about buying an extra copy of Windows or anything like that. Plus every time I turn it on it updates, so that part is made easy.
That would be because it isn't a OEM machine. It's a custom built PC
ashecitism
Member
Linus (Tech Tips) says it best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_Hh4XlU2Qk&feature=youtu.be
it might be free, but it's still not worth it
it might be free, but it's still not worth it
Steam advertises this as a Steam Machine:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/353430/?snr=1_300_307__307
http://www.digitalstorm.com/eclipse.asp
It only comes with Windows 10, there is no option for SteamOS.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/353430/?snr=1_300_307__307
http://www.digitalstorm.com/eclipse.asp
It only comes with Windows 10, there is no option for SteamOS.
unapersson
Member
Or the downside of trying to craft something built for a proprietary API onto an open one. If it had been built for the open api in the first place performance would be closer.
Chucke1992
Banned
Wait. I thought that games are being developed in order to gain profit? What's the reason to developer Linux version when there userbase on the same level as MacOs? I don't see a lot of games on MacOs either (though I don't know about its market at all). As port it may work but develop to achieve the best performance - I don't see.
Crayon
Member
Good find. But this looks like an alpha type of situation where the one for sale with windows doesn't carry the steam machine moniker.
I see. So it being built to order would make the dual-boot okay.
I have to ask, what does it really matter if it has the moniker?
What does that moniker even do?
unapersson
Member
Yes, that's pretty much the only way around it other than doing it yourself.
Crayon
Member
If you are marketing a pc as a steam machine, it means valve has given license for you to do so.
For emphasis:
So what it does is allow you to use the names Valve and Steam -which some people have heard of- to sell your pcs.
BibiMaghoo
Member
You are going to have to explain this sentence. How does listing it with a Steam OS as the base model, at no additional cost, go against what they have defined as a steam machine? You can argue the windows one does, and I would understand that position, but this doesn't make sense. The base model without windows is exactly what they describe as a steam machine.
Saying 'at least it's better than nothing' is underselling Linux IMO. I guess that's not what you meant, just sounds like that to me.
You'd be surprised how often I've heard that as a counter-argument to Linux being free. Like pirating something is the same as getting something for free.
I guess if your definition of gaming PC is 'PC that runs Windows' then that's obviously true. If a gaming PC is a PC used for gaming, not really. Lots of people play games on Macs, more than Linux. And of course, any one who builds their own PC gets a PC without any OS. I put Linux on mine, doesn't mean it's suddenly not a gaming PC anymore.
Or you get better performance, see ArmA III:
source
While this is an exception, the Shadow of Mordor performance isn't representative either.
Absolutely, especially when it lacks a ton of functionality that Windows has, and also requires you to learn how to navigate a new OS, even if it's only slightly different.
Not entirely sure I understand your post, but I'll attempt to reply.
Valve are working towards increasing the business case for developing Linux ports. This attempt still leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion, but it is something at least.
So far they have given a degree of marketing support to games which have received a linux port, both on the Steam client/website, and in their marketing materials for SteamOS/Steam Machines.
No doubt Valve hope to create a situation where it is a sound financial decision for most devs to support Linux, and they are taking baby steps towards making this a reality. I don'y know how successful this will be in the long term, but it's at least having limited success today.
nephilimdj
Member
More shocked its 1100 USD with a 750, never get these niche stores selling bad hardware for premium price.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Compared to Windows 10 performance? No thanks
Saintruski
Unconfirmed Member
This has all been very brutal to read....I don't think it requires anymore input...
outunderthestars
Banned
I think the OP is way too hung up on the Steam Machine branding.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
For some reason I was expecting Linus Torvalds.
ashecitism
Member
haha, haven't thought about that
You aren't the only one. When it comes to Linux/"SteamOS" it's generally Torvalds for me.
True but there really has not been any linux based desktops and boutique PCs being sold until now.
Iorv3th
Member
Dell has been selling computers with linux off and on for a while.
Uh... yes there has since at least 2005? Dell and other pre-builts started to put Linux as an option to install on their PC's to ship.
The problem is, no one wants it. It's too late for Linux.
- No games support (Valve is changing this but it's slow and won't have 40% of the backlog Windows has unless WINe has improved)
- Having to re-learn an OS "functionality." Aqua in OS X is completely different from X Windows/*NIX and Windows various UI's.
- MS Office isn't on the platform (Yes, yes, you can use it with WINe. But I mean native). And the "free" alternative while nice has issues playing nice with MS Office (which the corporate world uses)
Linux installs should've happened in 1995 or so when Linux was first starting to take off to attempt to get people to convert. But Windows is so entrenched now, even in a "Joe Sixpack"/retail consumer level that it's impossible to move those people from Windows. Even if you give them a "FREE!" alternative on their pre-builts, they'll still use Windows. It's what they know and the stuff they use (MS Office, Games, etc) run on it.
There are more on the page I've linked, DOTA, Portal, Team Fortress 2 and Metro Last Light showing improvements around the 20% ballpark, while in ArmaA III the gains can be considered marginal.
As I said, ArmA III is the exception. But the 50-60% loss for Shadow of Mordor is also not typical, as you say it's better for the other games Ars tested. And this is for games that were developed and optimized for Windows, and then later ported. I haven't found any benchmarks for games that were developed from the ground up with multiplatform support.
You currently lose performance on Linux compared to Windows, no doubt, but showing the Shadow of Mordor benchmark as representative of Linux performance across the board is just as misleading as showing only the Arma III benchmark.
People need to disassociate SteamOS from traditional PC use. It's to get Steam into the living room, create a console-like, friendly, super easy to use box that kids can turn on, fire up a game and play.
Recently got the Steam Link and it's been glorious having my Steam library available to the family. Steam running big picture mode on the TV, I couldn't give a shit that it's running on top of Windows.
Recently got the Steam Link and it's been glorious having my Steam library available to the family. Steam running big picture mode on the TV, I couldn't give a shit that it's running on top of Windows.
It was meant to be a tongue in cheek fake-advert that Windows platform could use. 20% performance penalty for the free os on the Source Engine games is also something that the consumers should know about.
Something is wrong with yours then or you're using the ancient Debian 7 based Alchemist that they canceled before launching. Make sure you're on 2.0/brewmaster which is Valve's official launch version. Mine boots to the login screen within 5 seconds or so from touching the power button.