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[Tiktaalik]

I don't see how you could look at the media attention that GTA4 got on the news, SNL, Daily Show etc and call still talk about games as being for niche fetishists. You could argue that video games are only hitting a small demographic area (young men), but that's a different problem and not a niche fetishist issue.

I think even if the Wii didn't exist, we would still be seeing an expansion of the market, especially considering the recent arrival of music games like Rockband and Guitar Hero.

There are some unbelievably hardcore games on the HD systems, but also a lot of casual games as well, though it's hard to say if those casual games were a response to work Nintendo has done, or a natural evolution of earlier casual games. It's hard to pinpoint since Nintendo was experimenting with more casual games on the DS prior to the Wii, the casual PC market has shown it's worth in a strong way recently, and Sony has been experimenting with casual titles in Europe for quite some time.

It would be difficult to guess how the industry would have evolved in Nintendo had just made the Wii a Gamecube 2.

 

[Deku]

The vast majority of games currently out, and coming out are on HD consoles.

There aren't that many games sadly. Sequels are slow to come too. Companies seem more interested porting their exclusives back and forth between platforms after timed exclusives expire to maximize profit instead of making new games. The scale of the games being made also means fewer games are being made overall. For all its pretensions and a year head start, the 360 has the diversity of a 2nd rung console. Not that it's much of a consolation for the competition.

On the lower end publishers put their old gen games on the Wii, treating it as a cash cow.

The situation is rather bleak.

 

[Salazar]

The situation is rather bleak.

Should I care that Atari don't want to make big single-player games for me anymore ?

 

[MisterHero]

I don't see how you could look at the media attention that GTA4 got on the news, SNL, Daily Show etc and call still talk about games as being for niche fetishists. You could argue that video games are only hitting a small demographic area (young men), but that's a different problem and not a niche fetishist issue.

I think even if the Wii didn't exist, we would still be seeing an expansion of the market, especially considering the recent arrival of music games like Rockband and Guitar Hero. More so than the "niche fetishist" comment I object to the insinuation that "video games were in danger of disappearing" and that the Wii saved the industry. This is really categorically false.

but but DDR wouldn't have come along if it werent for the NES dance pad i'll have you know and without DDR theres no Guitar Hero

[/joke]

 

[soldat7]

*snip*For all its pretensions and a year head start, the 360 has the diversity of a 2nd rung console. Not that it's much of a consolation for the competition.*snip*

Huh? Are you trying to say that the 360 lacks diversity in its software library? :lol

 

[Death_Born]

There aren't that many games sadly. Sequels are slow to come too. Companies seem more interest porting their exclusives back and forth between platforms instead of making new games. For all its pretensions and a year head start, the 360 has the diversity of a 2nd rung console. Not that it's much of a consolation for the competition.

On the lower end publisher put their old gen games on the Wii, treating it as a cash cow.

The situation is rather bleak.

Don't worry, we always have the PC, the last bastion of gaming.

With all the people making free games:
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25943291

I think our gaming future is safe, even if companies are churning out crap.

 

[soldat7]

Don't worry, we always have the PC, the last bastion of gaming.

With all the people making free games:
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25943291

I think our gaming future is safe, even if companies are churning out crap.

I personally look at games like fl0w, Portal, Braid, and LBP and my bowels become filled with hope. To me these are just a couple of examples that represent true video game innovation. And to be honest, these should also be on the Wii wherever possible.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

Guys, we're getting ot again.

Why are people discussing the quality of Wii games? It's irrelevant.

The point is that the Wii has technically done NOTHING yet. The PS2, which is still technically the REAL casuall console still sells, so I can't see what the Wii has really done as yet.

If the PS2 stopped selling the day the Wii came out, I'd agree the Wii is onto something.

But right now, I don't see the majority of Wii sales being attributed to anything other than pricing and a free game. The PS2 still sells too well, for all this supposed audience expansion to be taking place.

I also adore the fact that proof of this audience expansion is based on pretty much anecdotal evidence.

Yeah, my mum plays WiiFit, but she plays it on MY Wii, it's not like she bought one for herself to play it.

 

[dead souls]

The vast majority of games currently out, and coming out are on HD consoles.

Yes and most of them don't appeal to me. Why is that hard to comprehend?

And shovelware on wii does. Right. Enjoy your 2 worthwhile games a year, chief.

Two worthwhile games a year? Pretty lame attempt at trolling.

P.S. You don't have to buy shovelware. I own ~15 Wii games with not a single shovelware title to be found.

Mario and Zelda were cool 20 years ago. Most of us have moved on.

*looks at popular games on the HD consoles*
Apparently most gamers haven't moved past the mentality of teenage boys. Do you really think that bald space marines and juvenile crap like GTA count as moving on?

 

[schuelma]

But right now, I don't see the majority of Wii sales being attributed to anything other than pricing and a free game. .

Holy fucking shit :lol :lol :lol

 

[heliosRAzi]

Guys, we're getting ot again.

Why are people discussing the quality of Wii games? It's irrelevant.

The point is that the Wii has technically done NOTHING yet. The PS2, which is still technically the REAL casuall console still sells, so I can't see what the Wii has really done as yet.

If the PS2 stopped selling the day the Wii came out, I'd agree the Wii is onto something.

But right now, I don't see the majority of Wii sales being attributed to anything other than pricing and a free game. The PS2 still sells too well, for all this supposed audience expansion to be taking place.

I also adore the fact that proof of this audience expansion is based on pretty much anecdotal evidence.

Yeah, my mum plays WiiFit, but she plays it on MY Wii, it's not like she bought one for herself to play it.

The Wii is getting demographics who don't normally take interest in our hobby and get them playing games. That is what it is doing. The PS2 broadened the demographics just a little, but the Wii has broadened it even more.

 

[Death_Born]

But right now, I don't see the majority of Wii sales being attributed to anything other than pricing and a free game. The PS2 still sells too well, for all this supposed audience expansion to be taking place.

 

[legend166]

Did the PS2 even really broaden it that much?

Look at what Opiate was saying. 170 million vs 150 million. And I think he overshot the N64 numbers.

 

[Keio]

I'll risk going back to the NYT article quoted in the OP.

One problem some people seem to have with journalism is that they expect feature articles to be composed of a string of scientifically accurate sentences. "A world of niche fetishists" tells a much stronger story than "a market catering to a demographic of 12-21 year old males, who according to research are more committed to their hobby than most young adults".

It might be interesting to debate if mainstream journalism should strive for 100% accuracy rather than engaging storytelling and readability, but it's safer to beat a dead horse e..g. talk about the alleged weakness of the Wii lineup.

 

[Yoboman]

Yes and most of them don't appeal to me. Why is that hard to comprehend?

Well I find it hard to comprehend how any gamer could be so disconnected

P.S. You don't have to buy shovelware. I own ~15 Wii games with not a single shovelware title to be found.

I'd like to see what games they are, I find that a bit hard to believe

Apparently most gamers haven't moved past the mentality of teenage boys. Do you really think that bald space marines and juvenile crap like GTA count as moving on?

Yes. For GTAIV at least, that game has progressively matured. There's scarcely a juvenile kink to be found in the game.

 

[Death_Born]

I'll risk going back to the NYT article quoted in the OP.

One problem some people seem to have with journalism is that they expect feature articles to be composed of a string of scientifically accurate sentences. "A world of niche fetishists" tells a much stronger story than "a market catering to a demographic of 12-21 year old males, who according to research are more committed to their hobby than most young adults".

It might be interesting to debate if mainstream journalism should strive for 100% accuracy rather than engaging storytelling and readability, but it's safer to beat a dead horse e..g. talk about the alleged weakness of the Wii lineup.

This isn't an opinion piece, it's a news article. Saying that all video game players were fetishists before the Wii is definitely an opinion since it's blatantly false.

Now, back to tying my Wii up in chains and whipping it.

 

[HyperionX]

Reminds of an old prediction I had: The arrival of the Wii will be greeted with cheers, but its downfall will be greeted with even greater cheers. It went something like that.

 

[Deku]

Well I find it hard to comprehend how any gamer could be so disconnected

You got it backwards. There's a very energetic core of gamers who want what is being offered, thinks its the best and needs nothing else, and there's everyone else.

I'm not averse to discussing HD gaming and its merits and pitfalls fairly, but pretending that HD is the only game in town (which seems to be the tune to some) is a gross simplification of what's going on right now. What is going on is an unprecedented shift in expectations and console cycles, the rise of alternative way to play (handhelds) we're not quite sure how its going to end. The HD optimists have convinced themselves we'll still be playing the PS3 as a main platform from Sony in 2016. I'm not so sure, given the competitive nature of this industry.

That said, it should be emphasized that Entire demographics are splintering off to the Wii and to handheld gaming or staying with their PS2. There is a problem if you're of the 'dominant console' PS2 mindset. Let's not pretend there is not.

 

[Speevy]

And shovelware on wii does. Right. Enjoy your 2 worthwhile games a year, chief.

This is why I only play downloadable games.

I could own every single game on the Xbox 360 and PS3 and I could get through the games I actually enjoy in about a week.

 

[MisterHero]

This isn't an opinion piece, it's a news article. Saying that all video game players were fetishists before the Wii is definitely an opinion since it's blatantly false.

Now, back to tying my Wii up in chains and whipping it.

and I thought I loved my Wii o_o

 

[dammitmattt]

Well I find it hard to comprehend how any gamer could be so disconnected




I'd like to see what games they are, I find that a bit hard to believe



Yes. For GTAIV at least, that game has progressively matured. There's scarcely a juvenile kink to be found in the game.

Combination of a little hyperbole and a whole lot of ignorance. People love to justify their non purchases by marginalizing them.

And while GTA is juvenile, I bet he LOVES No More Heroes.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

Holy fucking shit :lol :lol :lol

Sorry, maybe I should have mentioned marketing too. They actually invested in marketing this time. The Cube wasn't so lucky.

But please, let's be honest, I'm not trying to put the Wii itself down. My argument was in relation to expanding the audience.

Right now, the Wii is doing nothing more than selling at a similar pace to the PS2. This could mean anything. The PS2 itself is still selling. We can't guage anything until this generation is done and dusted.

Believe me, I have no issue with the Wii. How could I have issue with it? It houses newer versions of my most loved Gamecube games, while also allowing me to play them while my Cube is packed up.

But just because I like the Wii, doesn't mean I can't be more objective than the fanboys that think t's the second coming of jesus.

I'd like to see what games they are, I find that a bit hard to believe

To be fair, I own 11 and don't think any are true shovelware a la Ninjabread man.

WiiSports, WiiFit, WiiPlay, Wario Ware Smooth Moves, Zelda TP, Links Crossbow Training, Mairo Galaxy, Metroid 3, Ghost Squad, Mario Strikers Charged and Mario Kart.

As I mentioned, mostly my Cube games with a handful of Wii remote-centric games thrown in (except WiiFit).

And to those worthless posts laughing at my pricing claim, answer this question, if the Wii were the same price as the 360 and DIDN'T include WiiSports, would it be selling at all? Let alone selling the rate it is now.

Nintendo could have just as easily justified their pricing based on this "new unique" technology and upped it signficantly. Would the console still have sold?

 

[Alex]

It's a great generation to go back to PC gaming. Thanks for all the good times, PS2.

 

[vilmer_]

*looks at popular games on the HD consoles*
Apparently most gamers haven't moved past the mentality of teenage boys. Do you really think that bald space marines and juvenile crap like GTA count as moving on?

Oh please. You're discrediting hundreds of games that have come out the past decade.

 

[MisterHero]

But just because I like the Wii, doesn't mean I can't be more objective than the fanboys that think t's the second coming of jesus.

No the wii wasn't

the NES was

I think real fanboys would know their history

 

[Tideas]

Unless the Wii has a redesign with a large storage solution and new colour, along with a substantial failure rate for consoles over 4-5 years old, then the Wii simply reaching 90million or yes 120million would indicate substantial growth in the market, why would you need two in one household?

if it reaches 120 million, it'll only indicate that it got the owners that owned the PS2.

 

[Yoboman]

You got it backwards. There's a very energetic core of gamers who want what is being offered, thinks its the best and needs nothing else, and there's everyone else.

I'm not averse to discussing HD gaming and its merits and pitfalls fairly, but pretending that HD is the only game in town (which seems to be the tune to some) is a gross simplification of what's going on right now. What is going on is an unprecedented shift in expectations and console cycles and we're not quite sure how its going to end. The HD optimists have convinced themselves we'll still be playing the PS3 as a main platform from Sony in 2016. I'm not so sure, given the competitive nature of this industry.

That said, it should be emphasized that Entire demographics are splintering off to the Wii and to handheld gaming or staying with their PS2. There is a problem if you're of the 'dominant console' PS2 mindset. Let's not pretend there is not.

Well I'm talking about the 'gamer' from the mindset of GAF. Even our people who are preferring handhelds these days do not go about saying there's nothing on HD consoles worthwhile (whilst apparently managing to find more than 15 worthwhile Wii games). Now that's a gross over-simplification

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

No the wii wasn't

the NES was

I think real fanboys would know their history

How many fanboys are REAL fanboys?

There's a difference between a hardcore gamer who grew up on Nintendo consoles and a nintendo fanboy in the sense WE are talking about.

I was a Sega fanboy growing up, and my best friend was Nintendo, we always bought the opposing console each generation starting with the NES and Master System, but we obviously still played games on each others systems. Mario Kart 64 was the game that made me go multipltform, I just loved it to death.

But my Sega fanboyism still made me hate Sony for a long time. Didn't stop me from buying multiple PS2s, 2 PSPs and a PS3.

Everyone has their preferrence, but blind fanboyism is just stupidity.

 

[santouras]

I'd like to see what games they are, I find that a bit hard to believe

well for me personally

Mario Galaxy
Metroid Prime
Super Paper Mario
Zelda
RRR
Red Steel
Madden 07
Fifa 08
PES2008
WiiFit
SSX Blur
Elebits
Dewey
Excite Truck
RE4
Lego Star Wars
Mario Kart
WiiPlay
Sonic
Endless Ocean
Mario Strikers

italicised titles I probably wouldn't buy again

I don't really want to turn this into list warz, but seriously, to say that anyone with 15-20 wii games MUST have some crap in there is stretching it pretty far. I've had varying degree's of fun with all of the games I've bought, even stuff like Red Steel had it's brief moments of fun. I haven't even got other highly rated games like Z&W, NMH and Brawl is yet to release here. Also I've noticed that 11 out of the 21 games I have are 3rd party, which is a pretty good ratio.

Fact of the matter is, there is quality gaming available on Wii. Even games that the hardlycore love to snub, like wiiplay, has some pretty fun gaming in it. The shooting and tank games are awesome, and my dad is completely addicted to pool. Something I really think some people on here need to snap out of it and remember why they started playing games in the first place. It wasn't for the crazy graphics or the cinematic delivery, it was because the games themselves are fun.

 

[Narag]

This is why I only play downloadable games.

I could own every single game on the Xbox 360 and PS3 and I could get through the games I actually enjoy in about a week.

I found this out the hard way.

 

[norinrad21]

Perhaps the NY Times should have written about how 3rd parties became irrelevant in Nintendo's world or how Nintendo became immune to 3rd parties?

 

[Yoboman]

well for me personally

Mario Galaxy
Metroid Prime
Super Paper Mario
Zelda
RRR
Red Steel
Madden 07
Fifa 08
PES2008
WiiFit
SSX Blur
Elebits
Dewey
Excite Truck
RE4
Lego Star Wars
Mario Kart
WiiPlay
Sonic
Endless Ocean
Mario Strikers

italicised titles I probably wouldn't buy again

I don't really want to turn this into list warz, but seriously, to say that anyone with 15-20 wii games MUST have some crap in there is stretching it pretty far. I've had varying degree's of fun with all of the games I've bought, even stuff like Red Steel had it's brief moments of fun. I haven't even got other highly rated games like Z&W, NMH and Brawl is yet to release here. Also I've noticed that 11 out of the 21 games I have are 3rd party, which is a pretty good ratio.

Fact of the matter is, there is quality gaming available on Wii. Even games that the hardlycore love to snub, like wiiplay, has some pretty fun gaming in it. The shooting and tank games are awesome, and my dad is completely addicted to pool. Something I really think some people on here need to snap out of it and remember why they started playing games in the first place. It wasn't for the crazy graphics or the cinematic delivery, it was because the games themselves are fun.

The problem isn't the list itself, it's that the poster I was replying to seems to believe there's nothing (or close to) worthwhile on HD consoles yet has 15 games on Wii that are. If he produces a list anything like that, I'll be in for a laugh

 

[Deku]

Well I'm talking about the 'gamer' from the mindset of GAF. Even our people who are preferring handhelds these days do not go about saying there's nothing on HD consoles worthwhile (whilst apparently managing to find more than 15 worthwhile Wii games). Now that's a gross over-simplification

I don't think he said there's nothing worthwhile, only that nothing interests him. It's extreme language, but hyperbole is encouraged here. The underlying point has a lot of validity to many, because I do feel the same way.

My preference for portables, aside from the quick starts and stops, is that there's really a lot more diversity. The prices are also low enough that I can take risks as a consumer and buy marginal games. Developers can likewise do the same on the titles they develop.

More generally I do not like this imposed pantheon that is implicit in so many of these discussions. HDs #1 Wii PS2 somewhere in the middle, PC/Handhelds (other).
I know GAF is console centric, but part of what's going on today is that is a realignment in the market that's also bleeding into the west. I'm fairly certain the DS2 or PSP2, whoever wins the next fight, will be the unquestioned dominant gaming platform in Japan. The DS is now, but it started its life as a GameBoy type device, home of spinoff of popular franchises and it is still carrying that baggage as some publishing houses simply missed the boat while putting all their eggs in the console basket. A console centric development strategy is no longer tenable in Japan.

 

[arne]

Mario Galaxy
Metroid Prime
Super Paper Mario
Zelda
RRR
Red Steel
Madden 07
Fifa 08
PES2008
WiiFit
SSX Blur
Elebits
Dewey
Excite Truck
RE4
Lego Star Wars
Mario Kart
WiiPlay
Sonic
Endless Ocean
Mario Strikers

I've bolded games that, based on what we can infer from the Mr. Scheisel's article and back and forth in this thread, would clearly fall into the "niche fetishist" bucket. So how exactly is the Wii breaking apart from that? Control scheme only?

Just some thoughts.

 

[Narag]

The problem isn't the list itself, it's that the poster I was replying to seems to believe there's nothing (or close to) worthwhile on HD consoles yet has 15 games on Wii that are. If he produces a list anything like that, I'll be in for a laugh

Is personal taste in games really relevant here? The games out don't interest him, it doesn't mean he thinks they're abortions of consoles.

 

[Sloane]

well they are kind of right

Of course they are right but nobody wants to hear that.

 

[JKBii]

I'm torn. I agree with the article's premise, but if it wasn't in a mainstream newspaper I'd think the author was trolling. Yes, Miyamoto is the most important figure in video games, and yes, Nintendo saved the industry twice. The second saving will never be acknowledged universally because Nintendo stepped in when they saw the trend, not when there was an entire crash as we had originally. Plus, rhythm games like Guitar Hero and Rock Band also helped here to a lesser extent.

But the article is written with some disdain for gaming outside of the Wii. I've seen plenty of mainstream articles on gaming written as if the author read an NPD chart and then reworded the wikipedia entries for the top ten games. This article is written to express a sigh of relief from everyone who's been forced to write those.

Now for the part of the article that offends me:


Quote:
Mr. Miyamoto’s work is evolving from a reliance on invented characters and fanciful, outlandish settings like Mario’s Mushroom Kingdom or Zelda’s mythical Hyrule. With games like Nintendogs (inspired by his pet Shetland sheepdog), Wii Sports, Wii Fit and coming next, Wii Music, Mr. Miyamoto is gravitating toward everyday hobbies: pets, bowling, yoga, Hula-Hoop, music. It is as if an artist who had mastered the abstract had finally moved into realism.

That's not an "evolution." A change, certainly, but not an evolution. I fear for the future of gaming if people start thinking realism is an option that's so much as equivalent to fantasy, never mind superior to it. Does this wide world not have enough realism as it is? Do humans need to take steps to actively create more of it so that we can get that daily dose of Vitamin Realism that we're so deficient in? I think not. :/

That is an evolution for us. Imagine if there were no books with real life settings and then someone came out with The Godfather, Pride and Prejudice, and Huckleberry Finn. Think of how many people fill the genres that each of those books define; their fans probably wouldn't be into books if those genres didn't exist in the same way FPS fans probably wouldn't be gamers if there were no FPSes.

 

[Flynn]

I've bolded games that, based on what we can infer from the Mr. Scheisel's article and back and forth in this thread, would clearly fall into the "niche fetishist" bucket. So how exactly is the Wii breaking apart from that?

I'm gonna bold the whole thread to illustrate the kind of discussion "niche fetishists" participate in. :lol

 

[arne]

I'm gonna bold the whole thread to illustrate the kind of discussion "niche fetishists" participate in. :lol

I'm gonna bold YOU!

 

[HyperionX]

The problem isn't the list itself, it's that the poster I was replying to seems to believe there's nothing (or close to) worthwhile on HD consoles yet has 15 games on Wii that are. If he produces a list anything like that, I'll be in for a laugh

You're right. There's a ton of very poorly known games out there that are still tons of fun on the "HD" consoles. Games like Toy home or Chromehounds and the like.

 

[dammitmattt]

I don't think he said there's nothing worthwhile, only that nothing interests him. It's extreme language, but hyperbole is encouraged here. The underlying point has a lot of validity to many, because I do feel the same way.

My preference for portables, aside from the quick starts and stops, is that there's really a lot more diversity. The prices are also low enough that I can take risks as a consumer and buy marginal games. Developers can likewise do the same on the titles they develop.

More generally I do not like this imposed pantheon that is implicit in so many of these discussions. HDs #1 Wii PS2 somewhere in the middle, PC/Handhelds (other).
I know GAF is console centric, but part of what's going on today is that is a realignment in the market that's also bleeding into the west. I'm fairly certain the DS2 or PSP2, whoever wins the next fight, will be the unquestioned dominant gaming platform in Japan. The DS is now, but it started its life as a GameBoy type device, home of spinoff of popular franchises. That's simply no longer the case for most Japanese developers.

Do you have a home theater of any kind or were you playing consoles on a 13-inch TV with RF cables? Is money for games tight for you?

I can't imagine handhelds playing more than a complementary role unless your circumstances lead to it. And this is coming from a consultantvwho travels most weeks for work and always plays portables.

 

[Yoboman]

Is personal taste in games really relevant here? The games out don't interest him, it doesn't mean he thinks they're abortions of consoles.

He's putting everything on HD console under an umbrella labelled "uninteresting" and then gone and said he has 15 Wii games worthwhile. Obviously you'd need a broad, spacious variety of taste to achieve that. Yet there's nothing on HD consoles? I just think it's a matter of convenience for someone who doesn't own/can't afford a HD console

This discussion has gone on longer than it deserves anyway

 

[Vaxadrin]

This thread is nowhere near as satisfying as it should be with a phrase like niche fetishists in the title.

 

[mikekennyb]

This article is just another example of the temptation of dissing video games as being, in this case the hobby of "niche fetishists". But we've also heard "nerds", "dorks", and "losers" before.

Now that the Wii and DS are around, video games are cool! Right? I mean, Jessica Alba plays DS and has an 80 year old brain age or whatever. So then it must be ok that I enjoy playing videogames, right?

But seriously, its' great that more people are enjoying games. The Wii is a fun system, but you don't need to throw every game publisher besides Nintendo, and every gamer under the bus in order to prove your point that Nintendo is broadening the market.

 

[Zerachiel]

You guys acvn't have it both ways. you can't be circling the wagons, trying to prevent those damn dirty nongamers from breaching the walls, and simultaneously pretend that you're anything other than a niche audience desperately trying to hold onto your importance to the industry.

 

[Deku]

Do you have a home theater of any kind or were you playing consoles on a 13-inch TV with RF cables? Is money for games tight for you?

I can't imagine handhelds playing more than a complementary role unless your circumstances lead to it. And this is coming from a consultantvwho travels most weeks for work and always plays portables.

I do, but if you're going into 'you need xyz' type of argument, that only reinforces the niche tag.

I see games wholistically, gaming has to be able to happen anywhere and not just in ideal setups. I don't see handhelds as a 2nd class substitute, it's the 4th platform next to the PC, HD, SDconsole.

I also game extensively on the PC, so I know it's not a phobia to complex setups or unconventional specs, it's just that I do not think 40 inch HDTV, couches, 5.1 surround and other signs of affluent upper middle class western consumerism should be a standard or is even tenable as a standard for gaming.

Just look at how many threads there are of 'hey I have an SDTV and PS3, advice needed!'.

People here are taking things into realms of abstraction and hypotheticals when reality is staring them in the face!

 

[Hcoregamer00]

I can't imagine handhelds playing more than a complementary role unless your circumstances lead to it. And this is coming from a consultantvwho travels most weeks for work and always plays portables.

I would agree with you if you were talking about the Gameboy and Gameboy Advance.

This generation of handheld consoles are different, they have some of the best games coming out for it, and more amazing games keep being announced.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

I've bolded games that, based on what we can infer from the Mr. Scheisel's article and back and forth in this thread, would clearly fall into the "niche fetishist" bucket. So how exactly is the Wii breaking apart from that? Control scheme only?

Just some thoughts.

This is what I was trying to get at before.

Aside from Wario Ware Smooth moves, I can't think of a single game that can't be replicated or isn't on another console in some form.

That's not to say there aren't good games on the Wii. As I said before, I have 11 right now, and should get a few more before years end, but too many people have clouded judgement on what the Wii is and why it's actually so popular.

 

[joezombie]

The userbase is inflated, not the console sales. You are very correct, Replacements and multi room requirements etc means that there are duplicate owners. I imagine that the PS2 userbase would have stagnated at around 80million to 95million people. Upgrades to the Slim PS2 especially would have placed millions of PS2FATS out of commission.

Of course, just as there isn't a 1-to-1 relationship of consoles to unique purchasers, there isn't a 1-to-1 relationship between consoles and users. Many consoles, perhaps most, are used by more then one person in a household, plus the secondhand market for consoles, hand-me-downs and so on. The cultural reach of games is larger then what would be suggested by unit sales alone

 

[TomServo]

This article is just another example of the temptation of dissing video games as being, in this case the hobby of "niche fetishists". But we've also heard "nerds", "dorks", and "losers" before.

What really pegs out the horseshit meter on this line of thinking is that the the older generations can't seem to come to terms with the fact that those of us who grew up in the 80's and beyond never "gave up" video games the way they did with their childhood hobbies.

The VCS was extremely common, and just about every kid I knew growing up had an NES. It wasn't a question of if you had a Genesis or an SNES, but which one. The PSX and PS2 as niche? The industry declining without Nintendo? Bah (and I say that as a Nintendo fanboy - check out my post in the gaming setup thread if you don't believe me).

Gaming has always been mainstream for anyone in their early 30's or younger. The industry grows because we stick with it and hold the line, and the younger generations add to those numbers.