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[WrikaWrek]

I think the problem isn't really the way games tell stories, because they have many options. The problem is quality of the writing and quality of the performance delivery.

Some devs need to understand pace, that's all.

 

[Margalis]

What's telling about this is that a lot of the answers are basically this:

Technology has advanced, now we have voice acting and motion capture and awesome in-engine graphics - so the answer is yes! Storytelling had advanced!

Very few of the respondents mention anything about the quality of the stories being told, the process of developing the stories, who the stories are aimed at, how the writer is integrated into the overall game development process, how writers are selected, etc.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

- start with the script and then build the gameplay

That sounds like a great idea. Wait, we're making games here. you know, games. Where the defining aspect is the gameplay?

Maybe it's not such a good idea.

- get rid of the juvenile themes (and people)

This won't happen until the player base matures and expects more from their games.

- let the player decide what sort of story they want to experience, but give enough options to satisfy more people

Resources are limited. That sounds vague and unrealistic/unfeasible.

Half Life 2 by definition doesn't have cutscenes (there is no "cut"). However, it does have scenes and they are awful. But I like to try and jump on people's heads while they express my greatness.

And I thought I was the only one. I also enjoy hitting people in the face with crowbars. They don't seem to mind.

One videogame-storytelling-technique. that really worked great so far, is archaeology-storytelling. I mean that stories, were the important parts already happened and leaved clues over the past behind. So its mostly an optional and interactive mission to find this clues and set the pieces together to understand what is going on in the gameworld. This clues can be items, architecture, monsters, characters, hidden texts, other information's and even gameplay. Two great games. which are using this technique, are the Metroid-Series and Zelda: Majoras Mask. Of course this is just one possibly, but i really liked the story to be told in this way and the games gave me the feeling, that i was finding something special.

My favorite part about this type of storytelling is that I can avoid it.

 

[insert_username_here]

I thought the introduction of characters like Alyx was a detriment. Valve's method of storytelling works best when the player is relatively isolated, observing the events around them. It doesn't work as well when they add in important characters that you're supposed to form emotional attachments to, despite being unable to interact with them in any way.

I agree, just look at Portal and Portal 2, the player was much more isolated in Portal 1 and I thought that made the atmosphere and overall story stronger, and the shock of GLaDOS trying to kill the player was one of the most shocking turns for me in gaming, Portal 2 introduced a lot more characters but having a talking metal sphere screaming unfunny jokes at you the entire time ruined the experience for me.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

no Mission 1 *briefing* Mission 2, etc. It's just *You're in City 17, go."

But you are forced to sit through briefings. Or, rather, to meander around the room jumping on shit while someone is trying to give a briefing.

I think HL2's bigger problem is that the silent protagonist gimmick really limits what kind of stories you can pull off effectively. At a certain point, relationships cease to remain believable and immersion ends up compromised.

SMT Nocturne gets away with this pretty well, I think.

Spoiler

It helps that the main character being a mostly blank slate turns out to be a major plot point rather than just the result of a need to make the protagonist an opinion receptacle.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

Advancement of Storytelling in Games

hint: the opposite of uncharted.

(rollercoaster theme park rides dont count, bro.)

 

[Pimpbaa]

I'm more interested in the advancement of gameplay, since that is far more important.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I'm more interested in the advancement of gameplay, since that is far more important.

Why can't they be on equal footing?

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Why can't they be on equal footing?

Because these are video games.

The thing that differentiates gaming from other mediums is the interactivity. In other words, the gameplay.

It's no surprise that the most of the most influential games of all time were influential because of their different gameplay innovations.

Story, as a whole in gaming, should always play second fiddle to gameplay.

 

[Ranger X]

Story telling in games is an interesting subject and it's not as worse as people here make it to be. There's still alot of improvement that can be done though. Character devellopment per example is generally quite lightyears behind movies or books for instance.
What's the most important thing to do when making a story in a game is that the story must serve the gameplay, not overshadowing it.

 

[tiff]

Because these are video games.

The thing that differentiates gaming from other mediums is the interactivity. In other words, the gameplay.

It's no surprise that the most of the most influential games of all time were influential because of their different gameplay innovations.

Story, as a whole in gaming, should always play second fiddle to gameplay.

Ideally I guess story could be intertwined with gameplay to the point of being inseparable but beggars can't be choosers.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Because these are video games.

The thing that differentiates gaming from other mediums is the interactivity. In other words, the gameplay.

It's no surprise that the most of the most influential games of all time were influential because of their different gameplay innovations.

Story, as a whole in gaming, should always play second fiddle to gameplay.

You have a point, but personally story is almost as important as gameplay for me. If I have no real motivation beyond 'beat that guy', I have no real desire to finish a game. I think both should be competently done, gameplay so you can interact and have fun, and story so you can have motivation to complete the game.

I don't play games just to prove I'm better at it than someone else... otherwise screw SP campaigns and I'd just play MP all the time. I want a reason I'm going through the game, some end goal, some reward, even if that reward is a dark and downbeat one (though I hate depressing ends).

But yeah, I do see your point. I just think they should both be competently done. There's no excuse not to, since video games are another vehicle for narrative.

Plus, I think even linear stories with cut scenes are fine, as long as the story and pacing is good. It doesn't have to be revolutionary, but it just has to grab my attention and make me want to make it through the journey and to the end.

 

[GhaleonQ]

Because these are video games.

The thing that differentiates gaming from other mediums is the interactivity. In other words, the gameplay.

It's no surprise that the most of the most influential games of all time were influential because of their different gameplay innovations.

Story, as a whole in gaming, should always play second fiddle to gameplay.

People thought the same about animation and opera, but development proved that even 1 person can do both.

The choice turned out not to be between abstract animation that pushes boundaries and story-driven comedic shorts that lack in-depth animation.

The choice turned out not to be between telling the story of Eurydike and Orpheus for the 1,000th time with groundbreaking music or a completely novel story with mediocre tunes.

I don't see why video games are special in that regard. Edit: I should add that neither is strictly necessary to be good or even great. I just mean that the ideal, a totally achievable ideal, is the development of both.

 

[Enduin]

I'm more interested in the advancement of gameplay, since that is far more important.

Completely and totally subjective.

One can even very easily argue that in many cases both go hand in hand and that one part cannot truly advance without the other also advancing. One of the biggest failings of games as a story telling medium is the fact that for pretty much every game theres the story and then theres the gameplay, both literally and categorically separated in almost every way. Very few games has really tried to marry the two together and make the success of one integral to the success of the other. In a lot of genres its never even really been explored as to how to properly merge gameplay and narrative together. Obviously not every game needs this marriage of the two but do or at least could greatly benefit from it, especially if they aim to provide a meaningful and high quality experience for the player on an emotional level.

Story, as a whole in gaming, should always play second fiddle to gameplay.

Why? For no reason at all you are drastically limiting what games can do for no good reason other than that being your personal preference. Games are meant to provide the player with a unique experience, their key attribute over books and movies is interactivity but that shouldnt negate or diminish the importance of a storyline or narrative within the game, in many cases that enhances the need and possibilities that stories provide.

In a lot of games the story and connections players have made with the character and events in the game have been the focal point and highlight of their experience with the gameplay being the afterthought, in other cases those story elements have greatly enhanced the overall experience even when gameplay was bulk of the experience. There is no absolute here, depending on the game and depending on the player one part can take precedent over the other, ideally both would compliment the other perfectly, but sadly that cant always be the case.

I find it extremely closeminded and foolish for people to dismiss the importance of story elements in games and act like they should always be an after thought in the development of a title. Some games can and should emphasize and explore the role of story telling in games. This doesnt always mean a heavy handed narrative or copious amounts of dialogue. Story telling goes far beyond simply writing dialogue and making cutscenes but rather permeates into every facet of game development. From the setting and atmosphere to the lighting and sound, to the art and animation and even the players abilities and how they interact with the game's world.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

There's only a few decent developers who you can trust to deliver a decent story and one of them used to be Bioware. I think it's just a matter of reviewers and fans not holding the developers responsible for making games with godawful storytelling tropes every few minutes. If they didnt buy these games and expressed their disappointment with it I think maybe it would change. I think we're starting to see more European studios put US/Japan to shame on this front and I hope to see this continue.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

People thought the same about animation and opera, but development proved that even 1 person can do both.

The choice turned out not to be between abstract animation that pushes boundaries and story-driven comedic shorts that lack in-depth animation.

The choice turned out not to be between telling the story of Eurydike and Orpheus for the 1,000th time with groundbreaking music or a completely novel story with mediocre tunes.

I don't see why video games are special in that regard. Edit: I should add that neither is strictly necessary to be good or even great. I just mean that the ideal, a totally achievable ideal, is the development of both.

Cool. It's just that, to me, the gameplay is the central aspect that makes games games.

Animation and opera, as well as music, movies and books, are all passive experiences. So it's not out of this world to combine two of them, as the experience is still controlled. As was explored earlier in the thread, interactivity creates some big issues with game storytelling.

Why? For no reason at all you are drastically limiting what games can do for no good reason other than that being your personal preference. Games are meant to provide the player with a unique experience, their key attribute over books and movies is interactivity but that shouldnt negate or diminish the importance of a storyline or narrative within the game, in many cases that enhances the need and possibilities that stories provide.

In a lot of games the story and connections players have made with the character and events in the game have been the focal point and highlight of their experience with the gameplay being the afterthought, in other cases those story elements have greatly enhanced the overall experience even when gameplay was bulk of the experience. There is no absolute here, depending on the game and depending on the player one part can take precedent over the other, ideally both would compliment the other perfectly, but sadly that cant always be the case.

I find it extremely closeminded and foolish for people to dismiss the importance of story elements in games and act like they should always be an after thought in the development of a title. Some games can and should emphasize and explore the role of story telling in games. This doesnt always mean a heavy handed narrative or copious amounts of dialogue. Story telling goes far beyond simply writing dialogue and making cutscenes but rather permeates into every facet of game development. From the setting and atmosphere to the lighting and sound, to the art and animation and even the players abilities and how they interact with the game's world.

That's why I said on the whole. Of course there are exceptions.

The reason I view the importance of gameplay over storytelling elements is not only because of my personal preference, but also because the industry thrives on gameplay innovations. I don't see well told stories happening any time soon in high selling titles, so i would see a game like that as much less important in the spectrum of things than a game that changes the industry landscape with its gameplay. Call me ignorant on that but it's just my view.

 

[Enduin]

That's why I said on the whole. Of course there are exceptions.

The reason I view the importance of gameplay over storytelling elements is not only because of my personal preference, but also because the industry thrives on gameplay innovations. I don't see well told stories happening any time soon in high selling titles, so i would see a game like that as much less important in the spectrum of things than a game that changes the industry landscape with its gameplay. Call me ignorant on that but it's just my view.

Fair enough, but gameplay innovations dont always, or possibly ever, occur in a vacuum, the story in games can have profound affects on gameplay. Look at Assassin's Creed, while plot wise its not the most well written series by far, the setting and story have still had major influences on its gameplay. The concept didnt start out with a guy who had a hidden blade and a bunch of other weapons that he used while running parkour style around an open world in order to kill people inconspicuously, rather it began as a story about an assassin and grew from there. Those gameplay elements that are key to AC's success, the fastest selling new IP in 5 years when it came out in 2007, spawned from the original story element.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

That's why I said on the whole. Of course there are exceptions.

The reason I view the importance of gameplay over storytelling elements is not only because of my personal preference, but also because the industry thrives on gameplay innovations. I don't see well told stories happening any time soon in high selling titles, so i would see a game like that as much less important in the spectrum of things than a game that changes the industry landscape with its gameplay. Call me ignorant on that but it's just my view.

There's a lot of high-selling games that have good or well-told stories (which is subjective, yeah...)

Uncharted, Assassin's Creed, Dead Space, RDR, Portal 2, these are high-sellers that have great stories... and their stories influences the type of game they are and the gameplay they have.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I'd try asking some of the Atlus staff.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I consider SotC one of the good examples of storytelling in video games done right, if only because it follows Ernest Hemmingway's minimalism and beige prose. None of those cinematic productions and none of those in-your-face stuff RPG gives to you.

 

[tiff]

Uncharted, Assassin's Creed, Dead Space, RDR, Portal 2, these are high-sellers that have great stories...

I can understand the love for RDR's plot (not agree with it, but understand it), but I never got why people cite Uncharted and Portal as examples of great stories.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I can understand the love for RDR's plot (not agree with it, but understand it), but I never got why people cite Uncharted and Portal as examples of great stories.

You get offended by those, but not Assassin's Creed?

 

[Boss Doggie]

In any case, devs and writers should always follow: put a story that is more sensible and satisfying first over something that is "epic", "deep" and complex, because you might end up making something shallow.

*cough MGS series*

 

[tiff]

You get offended by those but not Assassin's Creed?

I've never played Assassin's Creed. All I know about it is that is that I guess there's two factions who have been opposed to each other throughout all history and every major historical figure who ever lived is a member of one of the two factions which sounds delightfully horrendous.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

In any case, devs and writers should always follow: put a story that is more sensible and satisfying first over something that is "epic", "deep" and complex, because you might end up making something shallow.

*cough MGS series*

It isn't shallow.

It's just filled with layers, upon layers, of needless convolution.

 

[Takamura-San]

I guess storytelling in games will advance when games find their own voice.

Games today express stories via text, voice and video. Which is fine for now. But i would like to see developers trying to communicate narrative via gameplay. Stopping to listen, watch or read have their own medium. Wish there was something unique to games.

 

[WrikaWrek]

I can understand the love for RDR's plot (not agree with it, but understand it), but I never got why people cite Uncharted and Portal as examples of great stories.

Uncharted 2 has compelling characters, villains, performances, locations, love interests, action set pieces etc


Everything you need to make a good action adventure story. It's better than most summer action blockblusters coming from hollywood.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I've never played Assassin's Creed. All I know about it is that is that I guess there's two factions who have been opposed to each other throughout all history and every major historical figure who ever lived is a member of one of the two factions which sounds delightfully horrendous.

The main character has no personality and exists only as a vehicle to experience the lives of his infinitely more interesting, yet still extremely shallow, ancestors.

Blatant cliffhanger twists.

Ludo-narrative dissonance up the butt.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I can understand the love for RDR's plot (not agree with it, but understand it), but I never got why people cite Uncharted and Portal as examples of great stories.

Uncharted is gaming's awesome equivalent to an awesome action-adventure film or novel in the vein of Indiana Jones. Is hit supremely original? No, but it has great characters, fun adventure, and is all high-stakes and shit. It's great fun and well told and acted.

Portal 2 (moreso than Portal 1 for me) is a great little dark comedy with interesting supporting characters and mind-bending puzzles. The voice work is superb with a very limited cast of characters.

I know you didn't ask about AC and DS, but I included those in my little list (there are plenty more game stories I can talk about, but maybe later).

Damn, I love Assassin's Creed as well. It's just a long epic tale filled with mind-fuckery and sci-fi ludicrous twists. It's not a fantastic story, but it's a twisted sci-fi tale that I love because of its general craziness. I like True Blood for the same basic reason.

Finally, Dead Space is a pretty great (if derivative) space horror tale in the first one, with more elements of psychological horror and human mental trauma in the sequel.

I think all these games have great writers to craft the stories and fantastic actors to convey the story and the emotions of the characters.

The main character has no personality and exists only as a vehicle to experience the lives of his infinitely more interesting, yet still extremely shallow, ancestors.

Blatant cliffhanger twists.

Ludo-narrative dissonance up the butt.

And I fucking love it!

Though it does seem to me that as the games progress, so does Desmond's character. He's developing a personality as we go...

True Blood does the same shit with the cliffhangers, but I keep coming back for more!

Though TB may not be the best comparison.

 

[Boss Doggie]

It isn't shallow.

It's just filled with layers, upon layers, of needless convolution.

So it's like Evangelion then - crap but with faux-deepness causing fans to worship it in driven?

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Though it does seem to me that as the games progress, so does Desmond's character. He's developing a personality as we go...

That's... not at all a good thing. Characters should start with a personality, not suddenly get one after hours and hours of being super bland.

True Blood does the same shit with the cliffhangers, but I keep coming back for more!

Though TB may not be the best comparison.

The entire point is that you keep coming back for more.

*MEGA TWIST INTRODUCES NEW CONFLICT INTO THE SERIES!!!*

"OMG I have to see how they resolve this dire situation!"

*next iteration resolves nothing and only introduces a new MEGA TWIST along with a new conflict*

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

That's... not at all a good thing. Characters should start with a personality, not suddenly get one after hours and hours of being super bland.



The entire point is that you keep coming back for more.

*MEGA TWIST INTRODUCES NEW CONFLICT INTO THE SERIES!!!*

"OMG I have to see how they resolve this dire situation!"

*next iteration resolves nothing and only introduces a new MEGA TWIST along with a new conflict*

Doesn't make it any less fun for me, haha

 

[Metal Gear?!]

He is referring to Marc Laidlaw, the writer for the Half-Life series. You might have him confused with Mike Laidlaw.

So did the entire Laidlaw family just decide to get into videogame writing or what?

 

[Zoramon089]

Uncharted 2 has compelling characters, villains, performances, locations, love interests, action set pieces etc


Everything you need to make a good action adventure story. It's better than most summer action blockblusters coming from hollywood.

Ugh, didn't start hearing that term till this gen and that's when I knew...movies were starting to influence games to a dangerous level

 

[John]

The main character has no personality and exists only as a vehicle to experience the lives of his infinitely more interesting, yet still extremely shallow, ancestors.

if we're only talking about the first game, i don't see a problem there. characters don't have to be personalities; they can serve other purposes.

and i think it's a stretch to call desmond the "main character" in any of the games.

 

[Liquid Helium]

That sounds like a great idea. Wait, we're making games here. you know, games. Where the defining aspect is the gameplay?

It would be crazy if movies and books started out with locations or shots etc, before coming up with the story. If we want video games to stand up to movies or books in terms of their stories we absolutely have to do the story first then the gameplay.

I think videogames will split into 2 different things in the future, one were storytelling is everything, these games will be like Heavy Rain and L.A. Noir. And games were gameplay is everything, games like Demons Souls, Plants vs. Zombies.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

It would be crazy if movies and books started out with locations or shots etc, before coming up with the story. If we want video games to stand up to movies or books in terms of their stories we absolutely have to do the story first then the gameplay.

I think videogames will split into 2 different things in the future, one were storytelling is everything, these games will be like Heavy Rain and L.A. Noir. And games were gameplay is everything, games like Demons Souls, Plants vs. Zombies.

If games go the way of storytelling I hope they don't take after Heavy Rain or LA Noire. Just my opinion, though.

And I doubt that's going to happen. Again, just my opinion.

 

[Boss Doggie]

If games go the way of storytelling I hope they don't take after Heavy Rain of LA Noire. Just my opinion, though.

This. People are forgetting that outside of the method of storytelling, it is still important that the story itself should be good.

 

[Liquid Helium]

If games go the way of storytelling I hope they don't take after Heavy Rain or LA Noire. Just my opinion, though.

And I doubt that's going to happen. Again, just my opinion.

This. People are forgetting that outside of the method of storytelling, it is still important that the story itself should be good.

I'm not saying that Heavy Rain had a great story. The story in Heavy Rain is awful. I'm talking only about the way the story is presented and told. If you took the Heavy Rain and gave it a really well written story it would be amazing. Videogames have the ability to tell stories that other mediums can not, in video games actions can have consequences, enviorments and worlds can be fleshed out in more detail, tension is a far easier thing to present, etc. If we had a game that was story based and took advantage of these things without falling into the traps that video game stories are hindered by (having the main character kill hundreds of people, hiding the story behind repetitive actions, etc.) it would be incredible.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

if we're only talking about the first game, i don't see a problem there. characters don't have to be personalities; they can serve other purposes.

Like being completely bland and going "WOAH! Now I'm confused." every time something weird/dumb happens?

What a vital resource that the plot would suffer without.

 

[John]

Like being completely bland and going "WOAH! Now I'm confused." every time something weird/dumb happens?

What a vital resource that the plot would suffer without.

well, yeah, as a fish-out-of-water character he makes the other characters elucidate. standard technique.

 

[miksar]

I don't believe in any kind of advancement in videogame storytelling unless AI drastically improves. You can hire the best writers, write the best story, but you'll still have either a movie game like Heavy Rain or the movie and the game parts that can be separated or integrated depending on the player, like in Metroid Prime.

Someone mentioned here the possibility of a story not based on violence. It is understandable that so many games revolve around violence as it is much easier imitated than more complex human emotions. Today if you make your story about divorce, for example, there's a huge possibility that it won't work. Animation has still long way to go, most characters still look completely artificial. And it is not only the visual problem: their reaction to the environment is what is the most appalling and unrealistic. The already mentioned sequences from HL come to mind. Sure, it's a perfectly explainable limitation, but unless it is eliminated I will never think that the characters from HL even resemble real people (though Valve games are still almost perfect examples of how to combine story with gameplay with almost no compromises).

What I imagine somewhere in the future is a game where you make your own story. You are in perfect control of what you do in the game, every character's reaction is explainable and logical (or illogical as it is sometimes in real life). So basically as I see it the pinnacle of storytelling in interactive entertainment would be complete imitation of someone's life. Do we really need it? I'm not against good stories in games, but I'm against games becoming too much like reality.

 

[HK-47]

I can understand the love for RDR's plot (not agree with it, but understand it), but I never got why people cite Uncharted and Portal as examples of great stories.

Probably cause they succeed at what they try to do. Uncharted as a shooter version of Indinia Jones and Portal as a black comedy short story.

 

[Mortrialus]

Story telling is games is, as far as I'm concerned, completely inseparable from the game play, at least at their fundamental levels. I think TvTropes is a testament to this. Think about movies and games, what is arguable the most crucial aspect of them? The protagonists. Who your protagonist is, and what they can do are both very key elements to both, and its a story telling aspect of the video games that you simply cannot part ways with no matter how hard you tried. Even if both the games were simply wire frames, Dante from Devil May Cry and the protagonist from, say, Demon's Souls are so obviously different just in what they can do that even though their abilities are considered "The game play" they're still inseparable from storytelling. Dante's abilities and approach to combat are very over the top and stylish, while the player made protagonist from Demon's Souls is comparatively much more grounded in reality. This tell us a lot about the tone, character and setting even without any knowledge of any of the other elements of the games.

Even the setting of the game and the areas you play in are part of the story. Just take Demon's Souls, a fantastic example of visual storytelling in games. The Valley of Defilement is an unpleasant place to say the least. It is a place where the kingdom of Boletaria dumps their unwanted things, garbage, animals and people. It was nightmarish even before the demons arrived. Its putrid, filled with disgusting bug monsters and populated by depraved people. The water itself is extremely toxic. You can just smell the filth of the place as you walk around. It's the only part of Boletaria where the living conditions have actually improved since the Archdemon moved in.

Would the game really have been improved if you took all the elements of storytelling out of it? What you would be left with would be a mute game with wire frame models and even then you wouldn't have removed all storytelling elements out of it, as I mentioned above.

The issue currently plaguing games isn't even the writing in and of itself, it's the fact that game developers are generally stumped about how to tackle the issue of themes and complex narratives and plotting in an interactive medium. There is also difficulty in dealing with games and stories that don't revolve around conflict.

To my knowledge there are a ways of delivering narrative in games:

Classic Storytelling: Cut scene followed by game play followed but cut scene. These are our Metal Gear Solids, our Devil May Cry's, our Final Fantasy's and so on. Games with text based dialogs lacking in choice or conversational malleability also fall here in my opinion. These seem to be falling out of style to be honest, as games that strafe from this model tend to receive a lot of praise on how they deliver story.

Visual Novel Storytelling: Named after the Japanese game genre, Visual novels, these focus on story telling through dialog with choices and malleable conversations. Games like Deus Ex, Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, Persona 4 Mass Effect and many visual novels fall into this.

Half Life Storytelling: The story is mostly or completely told through the game play itself. No or very few cut scenes, and dialog boxes, are involved.

and curtesy of Metal B, the Archeological-Storytelling.

One videogame-storytelling-technique. that really worked great so far, is archaeology-storytelling. I mean that stories, were the important parts already happened and leaved clues over the past behind. So its mostly an optional and interactive mission to find this clues and set the pieces together to understand what is going on in the gameworld. This clues can be items, architecture, monsters, characters, hidden texts, other information's and even gameplay. Two great games. which are using this technique, are the Metroid-Series and Zelda: Majoras Mask. Of course this is just one possibly, but i really liked the story to be told in this way and the games gave me the feeling, that i was finding something special.

Metroid Prime and Sweet Home on the NESare some personal favorites of mine, Metroid Prime for how well executed it is and Sweet Home for being such a unique early example.

I think games are interesting because they're the only media where the player is simultaneously the Lead Actor and the audience. I'd very much like to see them move forward.

 

[Amalthea]

Soooo

No one asked Climax, huh?

A prophet has no honor in his own country.

 

[Brobzoid]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/04/10/butchering-pathologic-part-1-the-body/

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/04/11/butchering-pathologic-part-2-the-mind/

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/04/12/butchering-pathologic-part-3-the-soul/

A game that does a far better job at creating a interesting narrative that tries new things. The few minutes it takes you to choose a character in Pathologic eclipse the popcorn smorgasbord that is "AAA games"

 

[Sblargh]

I find it hard to find good stories on any medium that are not books and that's not because books are magical, but because literature is around for thousands of years. Reading a classic is nothing like TV, movies, comics or games can do to me.

So my point is that game development is young and story being the point is even younger. Last time videogame storytelling did anything to me was the monochromatic voice of the thingy on Mass Effect 1, near the end.

Spoiler

the one that talked about the reapers creating the citadel and how the systematic nature of the genocide they caused

. And that's not about being good script or being original. It was about punching me in the stomach. Taking the time with a long and paced dialog to describe something horrible and on a massive scale.

I think not only games, but also the aforementioned TV, movies and comics will start to rising to the level of literature when they realize that a good story is not about the sequence of events (that usually involve a twist), but about... well, art making, whatever the hell the artist thinks of it.

I think games are interesting because they're the only media where the player is simultaneously the Lead Actor and the audience. I'd very much like to see them move forward.

I think that is the direction. Heavy Rain works more when we feel we are the character then when we feel we are the spectator. That's what marked what scenes worked and what did not on Heavy Rain to me. If I felt I am a father or a detective or a jornalist (this one never happened), then that's it. When I feel I am just watching a movie, then it's bad.

But making this work is very tough and some games will be better off not even trying for the sake of gameplay. If I can't feel I am in the shoe of the character, then trying to stablish emotional conection will probably backfire. If my imagination isn't estimulated into filling the uncanny valley, then it will be there.

 

[Night_Trekker]

I thought I would love this, but I'm on question one and really frustrated with the developer responses.

I'll keep reading, though. And I'm sure I'll have to vent/discuss afterwards.

 

[etiolate]

A lot of the devs replying with answers praising tech may be right about moving their cut-scenes into the game, but actually thinking in the wrong direction.

There has been centuries of tradition that has taught people to read stories a certain way, but that does not mean such a way is the only way or the only worthy way. Even in literature, people are trying out different things and different ways of telling a story. An audience that expects plot upon plot and to be told everything will not ever work as a proper audience to try to please if someone seeks to advance story telling in games.

Instead, I would look backwards in game history and attempt to understand how games tell people things and the player's relation to the game. It is good to be concerned with such things as characters, plot or mood, but realize that experience is important to, and perhaps a long overlooked part of all story telling.

 

[choodi]

Finally got a chance to be in front of a computer so I can now elaborate on my points...

shorten the length of games, but increase choices for how to proceed in resolving it (more replayability)

This is a concept I have had running around in my head for a few years.

I am 33 and having a busy life means that I don't have the time to spend extended time playing games. I might get a couple of hours in every week at most.

This leads to a major problem for me. I can never remember the plot, or what I am supposed to be doing when I come back to a game two weeks later (imagine having to stop a movie halfway through and come back after a fortnight). Especially after the stupid 1 hour tutorial that games these days seem to force down your throat.

What I am proposing is that a game give me a two hour scenario that I can play in multiple ways. ie. multiple paths/characters/endings etc. For example, a scenario might resolve around an assassination plot. The game could offer me a core story that takes about two hours to resolve. However, I could be given five different characters' perspectives, or I could be given many different story arcs within that loose scenario. Hence the 10-15 hour value proposition is maintained.

For example, I could be a cop trying to stop the assassination, I could be the assassin, I could be the target, I could be a bystander. Each character would have their own way of experiencing the story and would have different objectives and outcomes. I would like to be able to follow the story, or veer off into doing my own thing. Either way I want the story over in two hours and I want to choose how I experience it.

What is important here is that the whole storyline should only take two hours. That way I can play a whole storyline without having to remember what happened after a two week break.

EDIT: it would also force the developers to actually use an editor that could cast a critical eye over the content and cut out the fluff that is only there to pad out the story.

stop making everything about combat and killing

This speaks for itself.

The act of killing and shooting things appeals to a small market; namely angry young men. Why can't we have other means of resolving conflict? Phoenix Wright games are not adversely affected by the lack of guns and combat! Give me more of that, please.

start with the script and then build the gameplay

This seems to be the most controversial point, but I don't understand why.

The video game industry is obsessively concerned with technology and its application to playing games (graphics, polygons, frame-rates, 200-button controllers). If we are serious about improving the narrative in our games, then we need to concentrate on creating a narrative as the core of our products and applying the technology to realise that creative vision.

Yes, we are playing games, and gameplay is king, but when was the last time you played a game that seemed to be crafted around its story? Instead, games seem to be crafted around the gameplay mechanics, which limits the creative expression of the storyteller. Games seem to have storyline elements shoehorned into the plot to justify the "cool" tech that the developer has created.

I want to be compelled to continue the game by its interesting story, not just because I might get a bigger kill-stick just around the corner. I can honestly say that I have never sympathised with a game protagonist (good or bad) in my life. Their fate has never concerned me at all. On the other hand, I can say that I have sympathised very closely with countless movie, television and literary characters.

Why? Because at their core, films, television and books are not about the technology, but they are about the characters and their individual stories.

I could also talk ad nauseum about how it is stupid that every game seems to reinvent the mechanics of the gameplay, but that is another issue entirely.

get rid of the juvenile themes (and people)

The development industry is mostly populated by man-children. Hence, all our games are aimed at man-children.

let the player decide what sort of story they want to experience, but give enough options to satisfy more people

Relates to the first and second points above.

If I want to play guns blazing, make your story flexible enough to accommodate me. If I want to go through without killing people, shouldn't I be able to do that?

hire real script writers and pay them properly

Pretty self explanatory this one...

Most game plots feel like they have been written by the 12 year old son of a graphics designer. In fact, I think I could find ten teenage boys in one day that could churn out more compelling storylines than the crap we are shovel-fed by this industry.

Want me to play your game for more than 30 minutes before I get bored? Get someone who understands pacing, plot progression, character development and motivations better than the morons who write this crap.