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Advancement of Storytelling in Games

Man, Ueda is starting to go all Inception on us in Part 2.

Part 2 is quite interesting. It only comes up once, but there's a transmedia reference at the end about story-telling in game universes outside of games. It's interesting... wonder how more companies will begin doing that
 
beastmode said:
Yes, I want to be an actor while playing a game, not a spectator.

Good luck with that again.
beastmode said:
This assumes games need exposition
All stories need exposition, how much is relative to complexity.

beastmode said:
and even if a game does, it can do it in other ways than cutscenes (e.g. another character in the world, by radio (Cortana & Codec calls.)

That would depend on genre, and gameplay style.

As well as the complexity of the story, the setting, and whether or not(and how) it uses multiple points of view.

Also, outside of setpiecies(which tend to only be action sequences), it's hard to impossible to really direct a moment properly when not in a cutscene.

Oh and Codec calls are pretty much low budget cutscenes, only the player has to activate them and there's a shit ton of optional ones.
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
How sophisticated is video game storytelling compared to other mediums? Is there anything holding it back?
Constant comparison to other inappropriate mediums is what is holding them back.
 
bhlaab said:
Constant comparison to other inappropriate mediums is what is holding them back.
And don't for get all the botched, misguided attempts to copy what works well in those mediums, of course.
 
hire real script writers and pay them properly

Is there any evidence that "real" writers do a better job?

Maybe the problem is that the writers aren't good, or not suited to the medium, or aren't taken seriously by the developers, or don't get games, but there are plenty of examples of "real" writers turning out average-at-best work.

It's kind of like WWE employing "real writers." Quality of the product is actually hurt by employing ill-fitting professionals.
 
Bioshock is a game that does narrative mostly right. There's a lot about the world told by the environment.

But, really, games are first and foremost about the PLAYER story, not the one a writer would like to tell. It's about the way the player handles things and what choices he makes. And I don't mean choices in a dialogue tree but where he goes, what he choose to look at and what tactics he adopts before certain challenges. Guys, do you mostly talk about the writers story or YOUR story when you talk about games? Think about it. Even in Bioshock I bet most people talk about how they went about with their skills and how they developed different playstyles.

For me, a great game throws you in a world and let you explore it at your own pace and create your own story. The world can be rich and filled with life and have tons of it's own storys and narratives and lore. But let the player discover it himself.
 
Video games are versatile and in the process of trying to figure what exactly works for storytelling. You never want to discount things, even things gamers hate like cutscenes and QTE's. It doesn't matter how a developer does it, but if they can make a cast of memorable characters and an engaging plot, then the storytelling is good. There's room for a lot of different types of narrative from endlessly-branching storylines, cumulative MMO-consequence driven epics, or tightly wound linear roller coaster rides. I'd like to experience them all. Calling for the death of certain type of technique or approach is short-sighted.
 
Here's the deal, with books an author doesn't have to worry about budget or gameplay and so can do whatever they want with the story. Games are infinitely more complex in this regards as they have to co-ordinate multiple things and so stories suffer as a result.

There has not been one game I've played that has reached even a Harry Potter level of storytelling. And I expect that to be the case for a long time.
 
Jarmel said:
Here's the deal, with books an author doesn't have to worry about budget or gameplay and so can do whatever they want with the story. Games are infinitely more complex in this regards as they have to co-ordinate multiple things and so stories suffer as a result.

There has not been one game I've played that has reached even a Harry Potter level of storytelling. And I expect that to be the case for a long time.

Im pretty sure Xenosaga fans would argue otherwise, but thats besides the point. Do games really need to have immensely large and detailed stories to be meaningful? I have just as fond if not fonder memories of many games than I do of many books or movies Ive seen and read. Games dont need to have stories that are on par with books or film on their terms because it is its own medium and as such it affects players differently. A story that would otherwise make for a weak book or a mediocre movie can make for a very strong game simply because the way we approach it and interact with it is vastly different.

Just by virtue of the fact that we are interacting with the characters and events on screen often times enables us to create a deeper and more invested interest in them than we otherwise would have if we were passively reading about them in a book or watching them in a film. One of my favorite examples is the game Passage, which is about as simple as a game can get, you just move to the right, yet for a lot of people its quite moving. Had it only been a video clip I dont think it would have had the same effect because we would approach it and interact with it differently in a passive, detached manner.

Thats why people get major hardons for OoT or FF7, the stories in those games are laughable when placed against books or film, but in terms of games they were pretty great and for most people did everything necessary to get them to become emotionally invested in them and genuinely care about what was going to happen in the story and to the characters.

While I hope and cant wait for the day when games really do provide stories that have as much depth and sophistication as many books and film, I want them to do so on their terms and to be something only a game could really provide and not try to be a game with a story in it as is all too often the case. Right now games need to start out small and work their way up, all while developing the tools and techniques that only games poses to maximize their impact and quality.
 
Part 3 of the article is up:

Storytelling in Games: Part 3 - The Best and Brightest

Bioware, Ubisoft, Irrational, Team ICO and more reveal their favourite pieces of storytelling and the studios to watch.

http://pc.ign.com/articles/116/1165904p1.html

What stands out to you as the single best piece of storytelling in games to date, and why?

Which person or team is making the most significant strides in this area? Who are the people to watch?
 
HK-47 said:
So is this gonna become a full on ludology vs narratology debate?

Keep in mind that as an audio visual medium, its inevitable that people will want to tell stories using it.

ideally, the two coexist at once
 
Even though I disagree I still respect most of the answers for the first question, because I could totally see where they were coming from.

Oh and way to self-aggrandize Casey. :P
 
A recurrent pet peeve of mine in these sorts of threads is the dilution of "cutscene" to the point of fuzziness. Half-Life 2 is often used as an example, yet few who make use of it reference actual cutscenes in the series, and instead label other scenes as the same.


So, thoughts:

- Scripted sequences are a major component of cutscenes, but they can and frequently do exist outside of them as well.

- Gating is a concept that can exist anywhere, it's merely a device to physically contain a player in the world. It can be soft (ie wander around in an area with a small exit you won't see at first) or hard (ie wait for scripted sequence to finish, shoot down Gunship to open path), but either way it isn't an intrinsic feature of cutscenes.

- Cutscenes are typically defined as being analogous to movie scenes, where the camera is "narrator" controlled and there is no interactivity. In short, it's a device to physically contain a player in his perspective.

- Both gating and cutscenes can be used to the same end, that is, to constrain the player long enough to hear story details, but the former has a few advantages over the latter (that may or may not prove useful, ymmv):
  • No abrupt jump between player and "narrator" perspectives, seamlessness
  • The player is restrained in the same ways he's restrained elsewhere, consistency and universality
  • Shows more than it tells, rewards attentiveness and investment instead of patience alone
  • Generally advances deeper integration of story and play, whereas cutscenes generally segregate the two

Naturally, you have some scenes that blur the lines a tad. The biggest example in HL2 and the Episodes are when you're struck immobilized and retain camera control (Episode Two in particular does this a few times), but generally the divide is easily discerned with regards to HL2. The differences are important, and we should avoid watering down terms to the point that they cover numerous dissimilar things and offer no genuine insights.
 
Early on in Metro 2033, you have a sequence where you are in control and then get attacked from behind and the camera rolls you to the ground and forces your perspective and actions, but it feels like you're still in control at first even though you are not. The interesting bit is this same sequence happens no matter how I alter my actions beforehand, and where I position my character beforehand, the controlled sequence looks the same always.

Before this sequence there is some of what you call gating going on, and action hovers around a vehicle with mobs circling around the vehicle.

The impressive thing is that each time I've done this, and I repeated it many times, I still felt like I was in control even though I knew I was not. I still scrolled my mouse as the game took over and shoved a beast off me.

I am not sure where this falls in the distinction, but it is succeeding in its illusion.
 
Scripted sequence paired with a QTE probably describes it the most accurately, though the line between that and a cutscene is definitely blurry (for lack of all interaction, it could fairly be regarded as such).
 
I never understood the Essentialism argument (i.e. Full Interactivity is the Holy Grail of Video gaming, ergo the medium should not ever borrow or be inspired by other media). It's almost like an insecure desire to prove the medium's worth instead of being secure in both the medium itself and the methods of expressing oneself through multiple ways. The medium of video games isn't one giant monolith that stands independent from all other media. There are certainly new aspects that should be taken into consideration and I am not arguing against prioritizing non-interactivity over interactivity, but people should not be so quick to completely disregard the many benefits of what other media are able to achieve with already proven methods or means. When the implementation of other media is successfully implemented in another medium, this is not necessarily a bad thing - but when the implementation is detracting from the experience (e.g. badly implemented cutscenes), it is not the method itself that is wrong, but the particular instance of applying it. Video games is a medium that allows multiple ways of expressing oneself creatively; why limit oneself to just one single instance of expression?
 
ATTN: Tom Gop

Video game heroes don't come any more generic than JC Denton. Sure, he's not bald, but that only became standard this gen.
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
Part 3 of the article is up:

Storytelling in Games: Part 3 - The Best and Brightest



http://pc.ign.com/articles/116/1165904p1.html

What stands out to you as the single best piece of storytelling in games to date, and why?

Which person or team is making the most significant strides in this area? Who are the people to watch?

I'm really surprised that Ueda, creator of Ico and SotC (known for having some of the finest stories in gaming), has cited Portal (don't remember this having any type of plot, just a few quotable 1-liners) and COD4 as having great storylines...
 
djtiesto said:
I'm really surprised that Ueda, creator of Ico and SotC (known for having some of the finest stories in gaming), has cited Portal (don't remember this having any type of plot, just a few quotable 1-liners) and COD4 as having great storylines...

Portal doesnt have a plot or story?
 
djtiesto said:
I'm really surprised that Ueda, creator of Ico and SotC (known for having some of the finest stories in gaming), has cited Portal (don't remember this having any type of plot, just a few quotable 1-liners) and COD4 as having great storylines...
Storytelling, not storylines.
 
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