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Agony will be censored on all platforms, Madmind Studios risk to face closure if they release the removal patch on PC
- Thread starter KyoZz
- Start date
KormaChameleon
Member
I love it when I get told what I can and can't look at... Said no one ever.
Gold_Loot
Member
I know it’s unfortunate, but I don’t want to punish the developer if it’s something out of their control. It’s a small team and they just cannot afford to fight the esrb on the matter.
If the game can generate at least above average reviews , then I’ll be picking this up. I enjoy horror games anyways so why not.
Fbh
Member
Sorry maybe I'm being stupid but I don't quite get this and the source article isn't helping with my doubts either.
So the ESRB is asking for this game to be further censored despite being AO? Because that would be pretty fucked up an definitely a case of censorship
Or is the ESRB just asking for some elements to be taken out for it to get an M rating instead of AO? Because that would be pretty standard and , IMO, not censorship.
Because if I'm understanding this right they wanted the game to be M but then release a free patch to make it AO which I can definitely see as being an issue. It would set a pretty bad precedent and go against the whole concept of having ratings to begin with. That would be the same as releasing a T rated game so you can sell to a wider audience but then release a patch to to add M rated content which is not OK in my book.
Why not simply release 2 versions? An M rated one so they can sell it on consoles and get more exposure on PC and then a PC exclusive AO version for those that want 100% of the original content?
So the ESRB is asking for this game to be further censored despite being AO? Because that would be pretty fucked up an definitely a case of censorship
Or is the ESRB just asking for some elements to be taken out for it to get an M rating instead of AO? Because that would be pretty standard and , IMO, not censorship.
Because if I'm understanding this right they wanted the game to be M but then release a free patch to make it AO which I can definitely see as being an issue. It would set a pretty bad precedent and go against the whole concept of having ratings to begin with. That would be the same as releasing a T rated game so you can sell to a wider audience but then release a patch to to add M rated content which is not OK in my book.
Why not simply release 2 versions? An M rated one so they can sell it on consoles and get more exposure on PC and then a PC exclusive AO version for those that want 100% of the original content?
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KiteGr
Member
They don't have to fight ESRB. Just Pegi, Or any other less strict system. As long as they manage to release an Uncensored version somewhere in the world, we can port da shit out of it!
Gold_Loot
Member
Yeah , I hear you and I agree with you but , they can be looking at a potential ‘Hot Coffee’ situation and that’s not something these guys want to get into.
At least we’ll know that the cut footage will be available on their site for those who want to see it.
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Hotel Security
Member
I don't see why this needs to be censored. Let it be put out on the market and let the poor sales and backlash sink it. There's no need to censor it as though none of us are responsible enough to see what's there. It's treating adults like children like we're all too weak to handle it on our own. Stuff that folks find objectionable should not be censored...that's the very idea behind free speech.
Sadly, "free speech" only applies with the law and not with businesses. Business make whatever rules they want and we all operate under those rules. If a place refuses to sell a prodict then that's that. So even in your Nazi example, it wouldn't make most stores anyway and would have to be sold from your own website.
What I do dislike is business having this "blanket rule" of never selling AO games. That's laziness and fear on their parts. Each game should be judged on its own...don't let the ESRB determine what games you sell.
PEGI ratings themselves don't have legal power but many countries base their laws on PEGI ratings so, for example, it could be illegal to sell over 18 games to someone if PEGI ranks it as >18. The ESRB has no legal power either but the US passed some law in the wake of Hot Coffee that forces stores to enforce the ESRB rankings. Also Rockstar was sued for not disclosing the hot coffee thing...so the lawsuits were about deception of the public and not about the actual content itself.
With all that said, I have no idea why a patch wouldn't be allowed for a PC version that doesn't have to worry about ESRB rankings.
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gunslikewhoa
Member
Your authoritarian is showing.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
Imagine if they had Focus their energy on developing a good game instead of being shock jocks
brap
Banned
It's a walking sim through hell. What the fuck were you expecting?
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
Manhunt 2 got banned in the UK, but North America got an AO rated PC version. I bought it from Amazon's digital PC game selection a few years ago. Doing some research it says Direct2Drive use to sell it until GameFly took them over and GameFly has their anti-AO policy.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I am still installing Agony.
GenericUser
Member
It's only a couple of seconds, youtube exists for a reason guys. Appearantly agony is shit, so it doesn't really matter after all. Game looked very promising though, a shame.
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RiccochetJ
Gold Member
It's interesting to see how Steam handles "official" content pushed out by developers outside Steam in the future and how developers will try to skirt that.
I mean, this game could have been modded to include those endings by a completely random stranger right? *wink, wink, nudge, nudge*
I mean, this game could have been modded to include those endings by a completely random stranger right? *wink, wink, nudge, nudge*
DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
Strange how GAF would celebrate the removal of Active Shooter from Steam (deplorable game, to be sure) and yet is championing a game that has (by the developer' so own description):
- brutal sex scenes (rape?)
- eye-gouging
- children's heads exploding
- setting people on fire
Confused... censorship is censorship? Or it only applies if the game looks mediocre?
- brutal sex scenes (rape?)
- eye-gouging
- children's heads exploding
- setting people on fire
Confused... censorship is censorship? Or it only applies if the game looks mediocre?
Ar¢tos
Member
School shootings are real and happen in the real world, hell and demons are fictional. Relatives of victims and survivors will feel instant pain watching a school shooting game, but nobody will feel the same kind of discomfort watching violence in a purely fictional situation.
DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
I made no reference to Hell or Demons. Read my post again, thanks!
Phoenix RISING
Banned
Those reviews! OOF!
Ar¢tos
Member
It's about context, not just the actions you described.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
I played 86 minutes last night. There were moments where I was enjoying what I was doing and then there were moments of repetitive actions and frustration. When you aren't trying to make out what's in front of you, youre hitting a guide button trying to figure out where to go. This can get annoying, but it doesn't stop me from putting the game down. I have enjoyed getting past one area and moving onto the next.
A person who doesn't criticize every single thing might find it very entertaining. It's definitely not something you buy to criticize. If that makes sense?
There are some cool aspects of this game. The level design is alright. I spend a lot of time wondering what's around the corner. I can only explain it like this: Have you ever sat down to read a book about the Occult at the library or have you ever searched the internet for demons and hell? If you aren't fond of the subject or are aware of any artists who make such a thing you're not that critical.
How many games focus on a demon goddess from hell? Or someone's soul burning in hell? You can't get that anywhere else.
I'm looking forward to seeing the entire game. The developer could definitely fix some of the issues with a patch.
A person who doesn't criticize every single thing might find it very entertaining. It's definitely not something you buy to criticize. If that makes sense?
There are some cool aspects of this game. The level design is alright. I spend a lot of time wondering what's around the corner. I can only explain it like this: Have you ever sat down to read a book about the Occult at the library or have you ever searched the internet for demons and hell? If you aren't fond of the subject or are aware of any artists who make such a thing you're not that critical.
How many games focus on a demon goddess from hell? Or someone's soul burning in hell? You can't get that anywhere else.
I'm looking forward to seeing the entire game. The developer could definitely fix some of the issues with a patch.
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5secondrulesucks
Banned
Ar¢tos
Member
I actually think that it should not be allowed to use real wars in games. I'm not against war games, i just think they should use fictional war stories instead of making money of the death and suffering of thousands of people and selling it as entertainment.
DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
Thanks for your enlightening description of how I was incorrect...
Fact is, this game has some objectionable content -- violence and rape -- and GAF laments its censorship. Active Shooter (or another example: the various smutty hentai puzzle games getting removed from Steam which GAF also celebrated) gets de-platformed and GAF says "good riddance". Seems like a pretty straightforward hypocrisy, from my perspective.
LucidFeuer
Banned
You haven't seen the end of the Occult you mention. I can't possibly judge you based on your comment, but know that you will either get eaten and be a wrong person, that I would have no remorse ending in a time of war, OR, and that's what the risk is about, you'll actually realise that in fact occultism makes you understand exactly what to fight against, hence the first part of my sentence.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Most people can't see past their own bias. Just the way the world works sadly.Thanks for your enlightening description of how I was incorrect...
Fact is, this game has some objectionable content -- violence and rape -- and GAF laments its censorship. Active Shooter (or another example: the various smutty hentai puzzle games getting removed from Steam which GAF also celebrated) gets de-platformed and GAF says "good riddance". Seems like a pretty straightforward hypocrisy, from my perspective.
autoduelist
Member
If you are very anti-censorship, then you should rethink your support of ratings boards. They have always been censorship groups, limiting what is available in various mediums. Ever noticed that there is not one for literature, yet we still get by without destroying our children?
The problem is that no matter how hard the rating board tries, self-censorship and Marketplace censorship will occur as developers and or storefronts try to hit certain ratings.
When XXX first became a rating, it was meant to mean any mature film for adults only. Of course, porn also fell into this category and the entire category became synonymous with it. Theaters decided not to carry XXX due to the association, so all adult films that weren't porn suddenly needed to hit R ratings. NC-17 was a fairly recent attempt at solving this problem, with limited success. Marketplace rules further caused self-censorship as theaters realized R ratings limit the audience. This is why PG-13 was created, so they could cut down what would normally be an r film into something teens could see.
Ultimately, the ratings board has resulted in a butchering of thousands of films trying to meet floating standards that are applied unevenly. A disaster on every front. If you are against censorship, then you should not support groups that seek to apply Universal ratings, because those ratings will be used for censorship.
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LegendOfKage
Member
No one had to destroy their films, though. Unless they included something like sexual penetration, they could have released them as is to any movie theater. That's their choice to make, and parents get some form of understanding of content before they see a movie. I personally agree with that.
Interesting to note that the "G" rating has become almost non-existent these days, for a very similar reason. Children's movies started intentionally putting in some very brief flatulence humor or a very mild swear word, and then they got a PG rating instead. Then everyone had to do this, otherwise they'd get a G rating, and 10 year olds would think "that's a baby movie," and refuse to watch it.
Thanks for your enlightening description of how I was incorrect...
Fact is, this game has some objectionable content -- violence and rape -- and GAF laments its censorship. Active Shooter (or another example: the various smutty hentai puzzle games getting removed from Steam which GAF also celebrated) gets de-platformed and GAF says "good riddance". Seems like a pretty straightforward hypocrisy, from my perspective.
I really don't think it's that complicated. When it comes to fantastical violence some people don't feel that they need protecting as adults
When it comes to a game that cynically tries to profit from a sensitive subject like school massacres, some people would rather it didn't.
You can think Active Shooter is fine if you like, even be willing to buy it and wish someone would host it so that you could, but no one has to sell it and its not hypocritical to not give a shit. Same way you can not like games based on recent (living memory) wars without wanting Doom banned
DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
But now you're attempting to equate two completely different arguments.
On the one hand, people don't need "protecting" from violent content if they are consenting adults. Agreed, as long as it doesn't overwhelmingly intrude their personal bubble (i.e. chasing you around with large TVs portraying violent murder or something crazy like that).
But on the other hand, some people don't want a cynical school-massacre simulator to be profitable? Unrelated. You as an individual don't get to decide what does or doesn't get sold. Your ability to handle controversial content and your desire that someone else shouldn't profit from controversial content (ironically, resulting in someone else being "protected" from it against their will or consent) are two very different things. And we're in deeper water once we start to explore the notion of what defines controversial content, and who gets to set that definition? Uh oh, then we're back to "protecting" people from content deemed controversial which you claimed shouldn't be done.
You are quite literally adopting two conflicting sides of the censorship argument and picking the side you like to justify the thing you like. That's hypocrisy. That's why I called it out as hypocrisy.
I think Active Shooter is terrible. I think Valve is within their rights to remove it because a storefront has the right to sell the goods they want to sell. I think society as a whole is a good mechanism for determining what should or shouldn't be censored since all of human history has shown us quite capable of reacting (often badly and aggressively) to anything we deem a threat to our values. But it's still censorship. The GAF community seems pretty confused on the topic, which is why I pointed that out.
Paracelsus
Member
They're done as developers anyway, who the hell is gonna back them up after this?
Decontamination Silo
Banned
How many M rated games out there are market to underage people? How many are written with underage people as the intended audience? I refuse to believe that Ghost Recon Wildlands, Call of Duty, Battlefield etc.
Mass Effect and Dragon Age Inq are rated M, but there is no way that is content made by adults for adults.
If this case is just about what amounts to horror style gore involving adults, I don't see what the big deal could possibly be. Something like Active Shooter? Well, I wouldn't sell it on my storefront. I wonder if an ISP would get involved if a game like that was sold independently. Honestly if you live in a market where a game like that could get popular enough to have a need to be banned at the ISP level, you're probably fucked anyways. And I think we're still at least 4 or 5 months off from being that fucked.
Mass Effect and Dragon Age Inq are rated M, but there is no way that is content made by adults for adults.
If this case is just about what amounts to horror style gore involving adults, I don't see what the big deal could possibly be. Something like Active Shooter? Well, I wouldn't sell it on my storefront. I wonder if an ISP would get involved if a game like that was sold independently. Honestly if you live in a market where a game like that could get popular enough to have a need to be banned at the ISP level, you're probably fucked anyways. And I think we're still at least 4 or 5 months off from being that fucked.
My point is that they're unrelated, or at least only marginally related.
You might have misunderstood me, I'm not saying I, or anyone else on Gaf, has control over what can be sold, I'm saying you can hope, want, wish, whatever. You can even protest if you like, same way you can petition in favour of something.
Re-reading your post I think this might be the sticking point. You can object to something without wanting to 'protect' other people
The owner and controller of the platform you're trying to sell on has the right to refuse to sell your product, and that will likely be because it doesn't fit their brand values or because they don't think it's worth it for them. That's not censorship, not unless you believe my nearest Game should be forced to stock Shin Megami Tensei Strange Journey even though it wouldn't be worth it for them*
*they should
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Stealth_Cobra
Member
Honestly, if it's just stuff at the end of the game, I guess releasing the uncensored version in video form would do the trick. That or leaving the patch on an easy to hack server and waiting for the hackers to post it for all to get.
DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
I think that's the slippery slope that has some people concerned, although (like I said in the last post) I fully agree that Valve has the right to decide what they do or don't sell.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
Wait.. I am coming at this with pure entertainment in mind. The most hell bent fantasy of hell and some high priest of Satan knocking on the wooden door of my tiny home. Not actual occults. I grew up in a very charasmatic Christian home. My ideas about Satan have been like a theme park as I've gotten older. I actually want to see what happens. Maybe this will add some fuel to my enjoyment of the game.
Edit: I can see why we all had our hopes up.
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autoduelist
Member
That's simply untrue. A very large percentage of movies are edited at the censors behest to ensure it hits a specific rating. Sure, they don't have to, but that's the point. The marketplace enforces self-censorship. If your anti-censorship you should be aware of this.
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theclaw135
Banned
In that case it's wiser to focus on the rating earlier in production. A seasoned script reviewer should be making the edits before the camera rolls, letting the movie proceed as if it had not been censored.
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IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
Fbh
Member
Kinda tamer than I expected. The whole baby murdering is definitely questionable although with those faces they don't really look like babies.
Butt physics being too much for an M rating is just lol though.
5secondrulesucks
Banned
just saw the deleted shit and i just imagine a board room of guys in suits discussing everything in the game that should be censored its the ass physics that just sends them overboard
