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[Fredescu]

not even close

Getting a pirated torrent is about as hard as using google

Getting a pirated torrent for a 360 game is exactly the same process. Once you crack your drive firmware you're done with mucking around. Download, burn, play. PC software requires more work in general to get going, and by simple extension of that, so do pirated PC games.

 

[Fredescu]

It's damn easy on either platform. The debate is whether one platform would have a greater piracy culture surrounding it, whether the percentage of people doing it are the same on both platforms, whether the barrier of doing it for the casual consumer is the same on both platforms, and which platform in general is more profitable to develop for anyway.

In other words this piracy argument is both lame in general as related to this thread and a lot more complex to analyze even if it wasn't.

Alan Wake coming or not coming to the PC has very little to do with piracy which is why this whole thing is moot and much more to do with having an exclusive title which was funded by a publisher of a console that wants exclusive titles for their console.

I agree with all of that for what it's worth. The only point of my statement was to point out the bolded.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Getting a pirated torrent for a 360 game is exactly the same process. Once you crack your drive firmware you're done with mucking around. Download, burn, play. PC software requires more work in general to get going, and by simple extension of that, so do pirated PC games.

The only extra work is getting a cracked exe (which generally comes with it) and installing the game. Otherwise it's the exact same process.

I agree with all of that for what it's worth. The only point of my statement was to point out the bolded.

Agreed. Which is why its probably best to take the approach of its a bad discussion rather than getting into the debate of who is pirating more and at what exact percentage.

 

[Phoenix Fang]

Is this 'Gaf member' the same guy or something? Or are we all expected to feel the same way about everything? I hate posters like you.

You really hurt my feelings there.

Yeah it couldn't be that people wanted to play it on PC who don't have a 360 are pissed off

And how exactly is it MS or Remedy's problem? If there is a game you want to play and it isn't on your console of choice, you have no one to blame but yourself.

For what its worth, I completely understand the dissappointment of someone who wanted to play Alan Wake on the PC because its their chosen platform of gaming with all the benefits that brings.

As you are hinting at though we all know how these things work on GAF. It goes way beyond that and now the the game and the 360 in general will most likely be the scene of the some of the most epic trolling in GAF history by a certain breed of fanboy.

Also I think you went too far with your comment about never developing on the PC. It's certainly a viable platform and it's always better to play the high ground anyway in these sort of disputes.

I deal with a few different studios and I have reasons why i would never develop a game for the PC market.

 

[Fredescu]

I don't want to sound like some piracy expert, I buy 100% of my games, but there are plenty of examples of piracy methods that are not as simple as getting the cracked exe and replacing it. Games requiring ISO loaders and so forth. 360 piracy is always the same method. It's an irrelevant argument anyway, so I'll shut up about it now.

 

[Stoney Mason]

I deal with a few different studios and I have reasons why i would never develop a game for the PC market.

On a personal level I agree. Anybody is entitled to have that opinion or the counter opinion. I'm sure Blizzard is happy being nearly PC only and I'm sure many console only devs are happy and profitable in that realm. I just think it makes things unnecessarily antagonistic in these sorts of threads where everybody is already looking to exert their platform superiority.

 

[Dunlop]

Getting a pirated torrent for a 360 game is exactly the same process. Once you crack your drive firmware you're done with mucking around. Download, burn, play. PC software requires more work in general to get going, and by simple extension of that, so do pirated PC games.

Joe six pack will not do this for fear of killing their xbox or lack of technical expertise. Many people already have bittorrent clients setup for "backing up" their movies and music collection.

I am not claiming that this is the sole reason, but I do not doubt it is one of them and thus end the derail....

I should know better than mention piracy on GAF

 

[dzukela]

Once you crack your drive firmware you're done with mucking around.

And that's really simple thing to do
Not to mention warranty break, and possible live ban.

 

[Phoenix Fang]

On a personal level I agree. Anybody is entitled to have that opinion or the counter opinion. I'm sure Blizzard is happy being nearly PC only and I'm sure many console only devs are happy and profitable in that realm. I just think it makes things unnecessarily antagonistic in these sorts of threads where everybody is already looking to exert their platform superiority.

Point will taken and post edited.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Joe six pack will not do this for fear of killing their xbox or lack of technical expertise. Many people already have bittorrent clients setup for "backing up" their movies and music collection.

I am not claiming that this is the sole reason, but I do not doubt it is one of them.

Not to mention lots of Joe Six Packs aren't going to feel comfortable or have the knowledge to open and flash their 360 drives much less even own a Torx head 10 screwdriver bit. Which is why we should drop the piracy argument in general.

 

[dumbass_]

Yeah it couldn't be that people wanted to play it on PC who don't have a 360 are pissed off

#1 Announce the Game for xbox+PC and get all pc users attention
#2 Cancel PC version :lol
#3 Sell more xbox to these PC users and profit

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Joe six pack will not do this for fear of killing their xbox or lack of technical expertise.

Balls, you can pay a paltry amount and have it done for you within an hour. I know people who have flashed 360's yet have no clue how to run a torrent client, they just take their console to and buy copied games from that "bloke up the road".

 

[Stoney Mason]

My take and last post for this thread.

I'm a bit surprised but not overly so I guess. The game had a large PC following arguably and based on Remedy's history and platform experience and code base it's probably not too difficult at all to have them release it on the PC.

But since Microsoft is the publisher and funded the game they get to make those calls. And they will do whatever is in their best interests of ensuring the health of the 360 system which they put out. In this world that includes console exclusives and arguably they've been moving this way for awhile since many of the their most recently published titles have been only on 360 and not ported to PC like it was last gen or even during the early years of the 360. If Remedy was really insistent on the PC version, it would have been part of the original contract that it must be developed for the PC along with the 360 version so in that sense we already knew who was the more important platform from that business perspective.

There is a still a chance it will come to the PC later and that makes sense to me although it sort of makes sense from Microsoft's perspective to keep it 360 only. I think it will depend on the sales. If the 360 sales are average then I think it will be ported to PC to make money off that and expand the franchise base. If it's a blockbuster mega hit, I think it will stay 360 only. Pure speculation on my part of course.

As I said I sympathize wth PC owners. It's lame to get your heart set on a game and then not have it come. I've had it happen to me on many platforms before. It wasn't the first time. It won't be the last time.

As a 360/PC owner if it gets good reviews I'll definitely pick it up on the 360. If it knew it was coming out on PC I'm not sure which version I would get. I often still buy games on the 360 even when they come to both platforms although with it being strictly a single player affair, the odds probably rise a bit that I would have gotten it on the PC.

 

[squicken]

Microsoft has no interest in being a common game publisher. It sucks for people who like PC games, but the reality is, you are upset at them for not throwing away money.

This is what PC gamers get for not paying the annual fee for GfWL.

 

[Dunlop]

Balls, you can pay a paltry amount and have it done for you within an hour. I know people who have flashed 360's yet have no clue how to run a torrent client, they just take their console to and buy copied games from that "bloke up the road".

So how do they get their pirated games on the 360 then? They could just as easily have the "bloke up the road" make them a pirated PC copy then.......

There are people who still use their HD consoles on a HD TV with composite cables, these people are not going to hack their XBOX's ever.

Like I mentioned, it was foolish of me to mention PC piracy on this forum as a reason why devs would prefer to develop on a console first. It really isn't a rampant problem for developers, I'll join others by sticking my fingers in my ears

"La La La La La La!!"

 

[Opiate]

This makes sense from Microsoft's perspective. I suspect they view the PC as a platform they can't control or make money off of (I don't mean piracy, I mean third parties don't have to pay them any royalties), so they're rightly hesisitant to support it when given a different option.

Also very importantly, Windows is already a monopoly. If Windows had serious competition, not only would this game be on Windows, it might only be on Windows, as Microsoft would be much more concerned with defending their OS monopoly than a winning a console war, which is small fries by comparison.

It is specifically the combination of 1) Windows is so safe that Microsoft can treat Windows users however they want and not face reprecussions and 2) The Xbox 360 is in need of exclusives to justify itself in a console war that is much more comeptitive that is leading Microsoft here.

PC Gaming is unquestionably a larger market than the 360, but from a strategic viewpoint this may not make sense for them.

 

[baultista]

If the decision is in the hands of Microsoft then the least we could hope for is a deferred release.

I have a 360 and a PC so, although I'd much rather play this game on my PC, I'll be playing this game either way.

 

[Opiate]

Microsoft has no interest in being a common game publisher. It sucks for people who like PC games, but the reality is, you are upset at them for not throwing away money.

What if they're upset at them for not pushing the technical boundaries and possibilties of gaming? Honest question, because this seems to be a common complaint when discussing Wii->360. Why can't the same complaint be made when discussing 360->PC? Either they're both valid concerns or neither are.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Microsoft has no interest in being a common game publisher. It sucks for people who like PC games, but the reality is, you are upset at them for not throwing away money.

This is what PC gamers get for not paying the annual fee for GfWL.

windows live was a load of rubbish though...

On another note, the hype for Windows 7 or whatever seems to be very low (unsurprisingly)... doubt it will add anything interesting however, given the track record

 

[Dunlop]

What if they're upset at them for not pushing the technical boundaries and possibilties of gaming? Honest question, because this seems to be a common complaint when discussing Wii->360. Why can't the same complaint be made when discussing 360->PC? Either they're both valid concerns or neither are.

I get your point from a PC gamer perspective, but wouldn't projects like NATAL show that they are?

 

[Opiate]

I get your point from a PC gamer perspective, but wouldn't projects like NATAL show that they are?

They are what? That sentence isn't complete.

 

[Dunlop]

"pushing the technical boundaries and possibilties of gaming"

They are just doing so on a platform they control completely.

 

[speedpop]

I don't really care if it hits the PC 6 months later or whatever. I'll grab it when I am ready to play it. All the better if it's another 6 months after release and retailing at 1/3 of the original price. I got more important shit to do in my life.

 

[Opiate]

"pushing the technical boundaries and possibilties of gaming"

They are just doing so on a platform they control completely.

Oh goodness no. No one is suggesting that Natal is cutting edge tech, are they? I hadn't thought that was part of the discussion. It's a camera with a better depth of field lense than the Eye Toy and a mic. Similar devices have existed on the PC for years. The ground Natal is treading on has been well established for some time now.

What Natal brings -- if executed correctly -- is a new and different way to play games that don't require bleeding edge tech that costs 300+ dollars.

Which is, of course, exactly what the Wii brings. One could easily claim that the Wii has pushed the "possibilities of gaming," couldn't they? But of course, that's clearly not what many people feel here. Or at least, they feel it's pushed boundaries they don't happen to personally care about. In essence, many people on this forum seem to care largely or even exclusively about technical boundaries, and Natal does nothing to advance that agenda. People want larger, more immersive open worlds; better graphics; more physics processing; better AI, and so forth. All of those things can be done better on the PC than the 360, by a wide margin. Project Natal does nothing to assuage those deficits.

Please keep in mind that I think it's completely fine not to care about pushing technical boundaries. I don't personally care about large open worlds or immersive graphics, as I've mentioned repeatedly on this site. But if you do care -- and particularly, if you criticize the Wii for being limited in these regards in comparison to the 360 -- then it should follow logically that you criticize the 360 for the same deficits in comparison to the PC. Either you care about technical boundaries or you don't care: all I'm asking is that people apply these concerns uniformly and consistently.

 

[Yoboman]

And how exactly is it MS or Remedy's problem? If there is a game you want to play and it isn't on your console of choice, you have no one to blame but yourself.

You might have a point if it wasn't originally announced as a PC game years ago

 

[Wiktor]

Excellent news. Now they can concentrate on the 360 version.

Judging by how they removed the open world aspect...I would guess they already are concentrating on it hard enough :lol

 

[CabbageRed]

Well that's dissapointing news. My being a PC gamer/Max Payne fan aside, the Twin Peaks fan in me was really looking forward to playing. I was really impressed (and it speak highly of Remedy) that the Twin Peaks 'vibe' hit me before I heard that the show had been an influence. Hopefully EA or the likes will pick up the PC version if that is possible.

Such a pity about MS.

 

[darkwings]

You might have a point if it wasn't originally announced as a PC game years ago

Halo1 all over again

 

[Dunlop]

What Natal brings -- if executed correctly -- is a new and different way to play games that don't require bleeding edge tech that costs 300+ dollars.

Which is, of course, exactly what the Wii brings.

I was more emphasising the "possibilities of gaming part", while the tech might exist on a PC, I imagine it will take a whole new level whenever this is released (much like LIVE did for console online gaming) with scores of developers on board.

.. of course developers "push the technical boundaries" of what is imposed on them (hardware restriction on consoles) with each new game that is developed on a console, using tricks learned. To bring it back to MS, NXE is a great example (yes I know people hate it).

You did not use the term "bleeding edge tech"

Much like Mass Effect, I agree that this game will be on the PC within 6 months

 

[WrikaWrek]

It will come later, and if it doesn't, who cares?

Do people get upset when Sony and Nintendo don't publish their games on the Pc? :lol

 

[Wiktor]

Microsoft has no interest in being a common game publisher. It sucks for people who like PC games, but the reality is, you are upset at them for not throwing away money.

Erm..no, we are angry for them at throwing the money away, MS's recent moves with PCgaming actualy do mean they are loosing a lot of money they could make on PCgaming, they just choose to throw potential profits away in attempt at strenghtening their 360 division.

 

[WrikaWrek]

Erm..no, we are angry for them at throwing the money away, MS's recent moves with PCgaming actualy do mean they are loosing a lot of money they could make on PCgaming, they just choose to throw potential profits away in attempt at strenghtening their 360 division.

You are upset that MS isn't making as much money as you think they can?

What the fuck

 

[Rur0ni]

Shame. Was really looking forward to it. Definitely not buying a 360, too vested in PC gaming. Not to mention a lot of titles that hit 360 also go to PC.

It's so ridiculous though, Microsoft shitting on the PC while promoting all these new technologies that only PCs can do. We buy your OS, put some games on it.

 

[Wiktor]

I think everyone should brace themselves for a similar announcement from Ubisoft Montreal this fall...

Huh? Why? Ubi doesn't have an interest in promoting 360 at the expense of PC

 

[Dunlop]

It will come later, and if it doesn't, who cares?

Do people get upset when Sony and Nintendo don't publish their games on the Pc? :lol

I think it is more that it has been announced as a PC title for years now

 

[WrikaWrek]

I think it is more that it has been announced as a PC title for years now

It's still coming i'm sure, just not at the same time apparently. You aren't losing something you had, nothing material has been taken away from people.

And yeah, PC gaming, who gives a shit, outside of MMOs, Blizzard and Valve.

 

[Wiktor]

You are upset that MS isn't making as much money as you think they can?

What the fuck

No, I'm upset they massacred their PC division without even having a good economical excuse. It's easier to swallow the "Sorry guys, but we just had to do it to stop bleeding money" excuse. Here there's none of that, they are throwing away profitable segments of their business, it just feels like they came and spat in PCgamers' faces.

And to think couple years ago when somebody asked PCgamers what is the most "evil" company we all named EA, well Microsoft blew EA away, beat them to the pulp, took the crown from their almost dead body and then sat on the evil empire throne while laughting maniacaly :lol

 

[Dunlop]

It's still coming i'm sure, just not at the same time apparently. You aren't losing something you had, nothing material has been taken away from people.

And yeah, PC gaming, who gives a shit, outside of MMOs, Blizzard and Valve.

I agree (except the not giving a shit about pc gaming ) , I understand why MS would do this. But also why PC gamers would be pissed.

 

[Wiktor]

Do people get upset when Sony and Nintendo don't publish their games on the Pc? .

Well...Sony publishes far more games on PC than Microsoft does. Compared to Microsoft Sony is actually a PCgaming powerhouse :lol

 

[WrikaWrek]

No, I'm upset they massacred their PC division without even having a good economical excuse. It's easier to swallow the "Sorry guys, but we just had to do it to stop bleeding money" excuse. Here there's none of that, they are throwing away profitable segments of their business, it just feels like they came and spat in PCgamers' faces.

And to think couple years ago when somebody asked PCgamers what is the most "evil" company we all named EA, well Microsoft blew EA away, beat them to the pulp, took the crown from their almost dead body and then sat on the evil empire throne while laughting maniacaly :lol

Because they decided to stop trying? :lol

You seem to think they have an obligation, that you somehow signed a contract of good faith. Their PC division was making money on what? You talking about Ensemble? A studio that was expensive as fuck? MS has a console that makes them much more money on games, why bother with the PC.

Well...Sony publishes far more games on PC than Microsoft does. Compared to Microsoft Sony is actually a PCgaming powerhouse :lol

You gotta be kidding me.

 

[Visualante]

It will come later, and if it doesn't, who cares?

Do people get upset when Sony and Nintendo don't publish their games on the Pc? :lol

Sony and Nintendo don't court PC developers with free marketing to make it exclusive to their latest toy. You're dumb.

You gotta be kidding me.

Yeah bro, solitaire!

 

[Majora]

PC Gaming is unquestionably a larger market than the 360, but from a strategic viewpoint this may not make sense for them.

Only in the sense that there are more users of PCs because most homes have them. When you compare the sales of most PC/360/PS3 games, the sales of the PC version pale in comparison.

 

[K.Jack]

It will come later, and if it doesn't, who cares?

Do people get upset when Sony and Nintendo don't publish their games on the Pc? :lol

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that PC Gamers care.

The Sony/Nintendo slant is idiotic, at best. When one of them develops an OS, then we'll talk. Until then, stfu with that.

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

Only in the sense that there are more users of PCs because most homes have them. When you compare the sales of most PC/360/PS3 games, the sales of the PC version pale in comparison.

That tells you more about the suitability of various multiplat stuff to the platform.

 

[Forsete]

Damn, I hope it gets released. I was really looking forward to it.

Hopefully its just smoke and mirrors so the media concentrates on the 360 version.

 

[Pctx]

I would be surprised if it didn't make a PC appearance. Then again, alot of people are still waiting for Halo 3 on the PC.

 

[Wiktor]

Because they decided to stop trying? :lol

You seem to think they have an obligation, that you somehow signed a contract of good faith. .

First of all since when does good faith need a signed contract to begin with?
And second I have already enough contracts and law techicalities in my professional life (I'm a law student and I work part time at law firm), I do not need to bring this into the entertaiment part of my life.

I liked IPs and devs Microsoft killed. Yeah, so shocking I could be angry about that, OMG! Teh terror, a fan complains when what he likes is killed. How dare I do such horrible thing? :lol

Their PC division was making money on what? You talking about Ensemble? A studio that was expensive as fuck? ,

So what if it was expensive? AoE still outsold the hell out of Halo Wars. So in this case they clearly didn't pick the option with highest profitability
Aces games also were great sellers (and ACES was cheap as hell to run). Or will you also now tell me Zoo Tycoon was loosing money too?
Stop with the excuses, profitability has nothing to do with what MS has been doing to PCgaming, it's all about larger picture for them, picture in which every PCgame sold is a lost potential 360 sale and every dollar they spend on PCgaming is a dollar they didn't spend on 360gaming

You gotta be kidding me.

Sorry for being a fan. I guess you're not fan of anything, so I shouldn't expect you to understand

 

[WrikaWrek]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that PC Gamers care.

The Sony/Nintendo slant is idiotic, at best. When one of them develops an OS, then we'll talk. Until then, stfu with that.

Man Google and Apple better start working on them games. :lol

You know how stupid that sounds? They make an OS, which doesn't have the main function of acting as a videogame platform, and because of it they have to support it by publishing videogames?

It's the exact same scenario as Nintendo/Sony. They do whatever the fuck they want, wherever the fuck they want, and you either buy it or not, so stfu with this whole bitch ass "they don't care about me" act.

First of all since when does good faith need a signed contract to begin with?
And second I have already enough contracts and law techicalities in my professional life (I'm a law student and I work part time at law firm), I do not need this way of thinking. bring this into the entertaiment part of my life.

I liked IPs and devs Microsoft killed. Yeah, so shocking I could be angry about that, OMG! Teh terror, a fan complains when what he likes is killed. How dare I do such horrible thing? :lol

Nothing goes on forever


So what if it was expensive? AoE still outsold the hell out of Halo Wars. Aces games also were great sellers (and ACES was cheap as hell to run). Or will you also now tell me Zoo Tycoon was loosing money too?
Stop with the excuses, profitability has nothing to do with what MS has been doing to PCgaming, it's all about larger picture for them, picture in which every PCgame sold is a lost potential 360 sale and every dollar they spend on PCgaming is a dollar they didn't spend on 360gaming

They don't have an obligation. They made a product, you bought it, they aren't making anymore of it, you don't buy, simple. How are they killing Pc gaming?


Sorry for being a fan. I guess you're not fan of anything, so I shouldn't expect you to understand

Sony has published what? Everquest and shit like that? What an amazing PC publisher.

 

[Visualante]

Man Google and Apple better start working on them games. :lol

You've really outdone yourself.

 

[MirageDwarf]

Funny part is Remedy owns IP.

I guess Remedy wanted security and went for safe route to sign a deal with publisher in which publisher has final say in everything. At least for first game.