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Alien: Covenant |SPOILER THREAD| With more Christian subtext than BvS

Fliesen

Member
Kane was wearing a helmet in the original Alien when they encountered facehugger eggs on the LV426. We all know how that turned out.

The Prometheus crew were also wearing helmets / suits and still suffered a gruesome fate.

The Covenant crew not wearing helmets is a non issue.

I agree. i won't blame the equipment they're using / not using.
If they had been wearing in covenant, then they might have just gotten infected from cutting themselves on a contaminated plant. The writers would've found a way if they wanted them to get infected.

I will, however blame characters for acting stupidly out of character.
John Hurt felt safe - he was wearing a helmet after all - curiously looking into that 'egg shaped thing' wasn't out of character. There was no immediate danger. For all they knew this derelict ship had been there for hundreds of thousands of years.

Meanwhile, the Covenant's captain, after already having lost most of his crew, goes on to look into an egg (sans helmet!), because the already crazily suspicious android is telling him it's safe. - the android he's basically identified as 'the devil' just minutes before.

That, to me, was a similar level of stupidity as the xenobilogist seemingly wanting to make out with that worm-like alien creature in prometheus. Or a geologist getting lost in what seemed like a spaceship with a rather straightforward layout.

If the crewmembers act particularly stupid after they made the first encounter with Xenomorph like creatures, it simply grinds my gears.
 

Foggy

Member
So humans are creations of engineers "because they could"

And humans created artificial life to serve them as a functional purpose, to serve

And in searching for meaning to humans' creation they meet their individual downfall because the creation who was made "too human" (at least compared to Walter) decided to create

But he didn't do it on his own volition as Weyland told him to "try harder" so he did and put some stuff in a drink that satisfied whatever they thought was going to happen so stuff did happen

And he ended up later killing an entire civilization of engineer dudes who were the creators of his human creators but then decides he's going to become a creator by creating a creation using his own creator as an incubator using the resources of his creator's creator.




If Scott really wanted to make an android he should have just made an android movie.
 
They should've had it so the spores were so small that they still went through the suit's filtration and infected him.

Yeah, I agree. That's what makes the original alien cool -- 'what the fuck it just melted his protective helmet! I'm kinda terrified now...' There's lots of ways you could still have them get infected and just not look like morons. No one's arguing they shouldn't get infected. That's the movie, it has to happen, we all get that. But it's the way a character acts to get infected that takes a viewer deeper into a story, or pulls them out farther.

Both these movies have had characters who make decisions that pull you out of the story, not bring you in deeper.
 

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
And yet we don't have scientists trying to pet alien snakes or people running in straight lines. A lot of the idiotic character decisions are more forgivable because the movie doesn't try to depict the characters as being a bunch of scientists. The two people initially infected are military with one guy just casually stepping on something.

The movie cuts out a lot of the Prometheus high minded garbage and while it does retain some slight elements of that, the movie doesn't feel near as bogged down nor up its own ass at times.
No here you have idiot security experts leaving and splitting up on their own, and the single dumbest human being ever depicted, following a crazed android around as he proceeds to inform him of all the fucked up shit he did. Then after seeing that all the Alien crap that killed his people where created by said android, he conveniently trusts him that, "don't worry, it's safe!"
 

Timeaisis

Member
Or, you know, it's a movie, and it would be pointless to spend extra time on setting up the inevitable Alien infestation.

Would you rather suspend your disbelief for a second or have the movie spend 20 minutes explaining how an xeno parasite could infect a bunch of scientists that use perfect hazard control? I'll take the hit for the sake of efficient storytelling, thank you very much.

I don't get what y'all are so wrapped up about here. There are plenty other things you can criticize, this just feels damn trite.
 

Mister Wolf

Member
No here you have idiot security experts leaving and splitting up on their own, and the single dumbest human being ever depicted, following a crazed android around as he proceeds to inform him of all the fucked up shit he did. Then after seeing that all the Alien crap that killed his people where created by said android, he conveniently trusts him that, "don't worry, it's safe!"

Almost movie ruining level of stupidity. Who wrote that garbage and thought it made sense? Its Green Lantern levels of bad script.
 
Or, you know, it's a movie, and it would be pointless to spend extra time on setting up the inevitable Alien infestation.

Would you rather suspend your disbelief for a second or have the movie spend 20 minutes explaining how an xeno parasite could infect a bunch of scientists that use perfect hazard control? I'll take the hit for the sake of efficient storytelling, thank you very much.

I don't get what y'all are so wrapped up about here. There are plenty other things you can criticize, this just feels damn trite.

'Efficient storytelling?'

Suspension of disbelief is everything in film. These films don't give the audience enough to do exactly that. Hence the muted reactions, hence the box office this movie pulled in this weekend, hence this franchise probably being laid to rest again.

And by the way, no one here is 'I loved everything in this movie...well, except the no helmets.' That viewer and viewpoint don''t really exist. It's not a 'trite' complaint -- it's an example of a much bigger problem.

Nothing about these two films has been 'efficient.'
 

Surface of Me

I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
The guy who just stepped on something to get infected was well done. The other guy who just goes up to some mold and starts sniffing it was fucking awful. You dont sniff mold on Earth dumbass! Why sniff alien mold?
 
Almost movie ruining level of stupidity. Who wrote that garbage and thought it made sense? Its Green Lantern levels of bad script.

Ridley Scott makes the decisions and the writers do his bidding. The studio was thrilled to have Scott come back, it was a marketing angle that worked for the first film, and thus he gained a lot of creative control. This isn't some spec screenplay a writer wrote -- it's Scott's vision (or lack thereof) that writers are furiously trying to make sense of.

This is all made perfectly clear now since this film has 4 different writers, none of them from Prometheus, yet the film has the exact same problems the last one did.
 

raindoc

Member
Alien wouldn't have happened if they had followed protocol as ripely demands and not taken kane inside the airlock. or put him into cryo, as also suggested in the movie irc. or performed a cat/mri scan showing the foreign body resulting in one of the above.
So much for (stupid) mistakes being used as a plot device.
Concerning helmets in sci-fi movies/tv-shows. Luke didn't wear one when visiting dagobah. Neither did crews of any starship named enterprise (an affiliates) if the atmosphere was breathable, etc. etc.
It's a common thing and really not a reason for outrage or major criticism - people like to see their individual actors and not just a bunch of suits that all look the same.

It's a bit different in Prometheus, where they are explicitly wearing helmets but then take them off despite protesting at first, with a bunch of indefensible unscientific/unprofessional/outright stupid behaviour served alongside. if taking off the helmets would've been P's biggest problem I'd be glad, but it was just a (imho minor) stupidity in a long list of stupid actions.

Was it the engineers home planet? Their only planet ? Why did David want to kill them ? Why did the engineers want to kill us?

this is my biggest problem with with a:c - the only interesting part (to me) of prometheus were the engineers and their motivations. in a:c, this topic was nuked from orbit, kinda litteraly.
 

Timeaisis

Member
'Efficient storytelling?'

Suspension of disbelief is everything in film. These films don't give the audience enough to do exactly that. Hence the muted reactions, hence the box office this movie pulled in this weekend, hence this franchise probably being laid to rest again.

And by the way, no one here is 'I loved everything in this movie...well, except the no helmets.' That viewer and viewpoint don''t really exist. It's not a 'trite' complaint -- it's an example of a much bigger problem.

Nothing about these two films has been 'efficient.'

I didn't say Covenant was efficient, but it sure as hell would be less efficient if it had to establish some kind of xeno parasite breach concept. By that point I'm ready to see some alien shit. I'm saying it would have needed even more setup for the inevitable Alien thing if it tried to get everything making perfect sense and the crew making perfect decisions.

Of course, suspension of disbelief is important, but so is not boring the hell out of your audience with needless exposition. Also, I guess I'd say it didn't bother me considering in Aliens they just jump out with no space suits onto Hadley's Hope, after the obligatory planet scan, of course. Which was in this film, too.

And of course, I'm not calling you out because I think everyone loved the movie minus the helmet thing. I'm calling everyone out because it's a stupid, stupid thing to focus criticism on, considering Alien has never been hard sci-fi.

Again, no one in the Alien movies has seen any of the Alien movies.
 
I didn't say Covenant was efficient, but it sure as hell would be less efficient if it had to establish some kind of xeno parasite breach concept. By that point I'm ready to see some alien shit. I'm saying it would have needed even more setup for the inevitable Alien thing if it tried to get everything making perfect sense and the crew making perfect decisions.

Of course, suspension of disbelief is important, but so is not boring the hell out of your audience with needless exposition. Also, I guess I'd say it didn't bother me considering in Aliens they just jump out with no space suits onto Hadley's Hope, after the obligatory planet scan, of course. Which was in this film, too.

And of course, I'm not calling you out because I think everyone loved the movie minus the helmet thing. I'm calling everyone out because it's a stupid, stupid thing to focus criticism on, considering Alien has never been hard sci-fi.

Again, no one in the Alien movies has seen any of the Alien movies.

I think the difference in how you view this film and how others like myself view it is in one of your final sentences -- 'Alien has never been hard sci-fi.'

It was at one point. Now it is certainly not.
 
I don't think it ever was.

The creature itself sorta makes that impossible.

Whatever nerd definition people want to use, it was certainly closer to 'hard sci-fi' than the fantasy 'black goo does whatever we need it to' this series has morphed into. The fact that people in this very thread are saying 'well in Star Wars it never mattered that they didn't wear helmets' proves some are now looking at this through a softer lens.

That degradation of seriousness -- and repercussion -- has clearly hurt this franchise, not helped it.
 

Toa TAK

Banned
Whatever nerd definition people want to use, it was certainly closer to 'hard sci-fi' than the fantasy 'black goo does whatever we need it to' this series has morphed into. The fact that people in this very thread are saying 'well in Star Wars it never mattered that they didn't wear helmets' kinda proves that.

Well,

What makes Alien hard sci-fi to you?
 
I mean, invoking a difference between "hard" and "soft" sci-fi is itself pretty fuckin' nerdy tho, right?

Read the post I quoted properly. I didn't invoke it. I responded to it.

And to be honest I now regret it because this thread is predictably going down that route. I probably share some of the blame for that, but the point is Alien is more fantasy now than it was before. Full stop.
 
You affirmed it

Hence the response.

If you didn't think it was hard sci-fi your post doesn't make any sense now.

Right, so I didn't "invoke" it, glad we both agree on that now. And yes, I responded to it in that it brought up an interesting distinction in how seriously people treat the Alien series, either more sci-fi or more fantasy.

Again, I should have just said 'more hard sci-fi than fantasy' in my original response to avoid these posts.
 

raindoc

Member
Whatever nerd definition people want to use, it was certainly closer to 'hard sci-fi' than the fantasy 'black goo does whatever we need it to' this series has morphed into. The fact that people in this very thread are saying 'well in Star Wars it never mattered that they didn't wear helmets' proves some are now looking at this through a softer lens.

That degradation of seriousness -- and repercussion -- has clearly hurt this franchise, not helped it.

I, the people, am amused by your fixation on helmets. spinning your fixation on contamination by microorganisms/viruses further: there's no way to transfer a contaminated crew member to the medbay of the nostromo (or lander in a:c). no direct airlock or isolation stretcher. the lander in ac (or in Aliens, your second hardest scifi movie) doesn't even have an airlock...
 
Just came back from seeing it.
I was one of those freaks that loved Prometheus. And I mean, Loved it! Loved the aesthetics and subtext.
I was still entertained by this movie, but I just don't see why it deserves better praise than its predecessor. Themes were poorly worked. David was much weaker than before with some cringe-worthy scenes.
And they managed to ramp up the stupidity.
I agree with what others have said, it's fine they all die, but if there's no story, and if it's just a group of people getting picked up in different and gruesome ways, that can be entertaining, but I'm going to forget about it in a week.
Captain scene was so stupid, it could have stopped way before he put his freaking head in there and he could still be infected in a not so stupid way.
 
I, the people, am amused by your fixation on helmets. spinning your fixation on contamination by microorganisms/viruses further: there's no way to transfer a contaminated crew member to the medbay of the nostromo (or lander in a:c). no direct airlock or isolation stretcher. the lander in ac (or in Aliens, your second hardest scifi movie) doesn't even have an airlock...

No one is upset that 'protocol wasn't followed.' There is no 'fixation on helmets.'

It has nothing to do with that. Not trying to be an asshole, but are some of you guys purposefully being daft?

It's about wanting characters to act smart and intelligent so we care when shit happens to them.

You know, like how Ripley acted smart in the first Alien and didn't want Dallas to let them break quarantine. Hence what distinguished her. Hence what made her worthy for an audience to root for and want to see her live. "Fuck, Dallas was kinda stupid...but Ripley knows her shit. Sucks Dallas kinda caused this, but I really hope Ripley doesn't have to pay a price for his mistake, too."

There are no smart characters in these new films. Fucking zero. Shaw was moronic. Daniels was too cardboard cutout to be smart or stupid. There's just....nothing.

This shit is so basic it makes my head spin.

(With that said, I think I'm done with this film for the moment. Appreciate the discussion as always, good and bad.)
 
this is my biggest problem with with a:c - the only interesting part (to me) of prometheus were the engineers and their motivations. in a:c, this topic was nuked from orbit, kinda litteraly.
I liked the movie well enough - but yeah- I'm bummed about that. Prequel trilogy should have focused on engineers
 
That's what made it interesting. The fact that, for all your hardwork and caution, the horrors out in space will still get you. It plays on our cosmic-phobia.

The original Alien crew got a good head on their shoulders, all things considered. It makes their deaths all the more tragic.

When a stupid character acts stupidly, you don't feel a twinge of sadness. You either cheer for when their stupid asses finally get offed or just roll your eyes and count the seconds for when the movie is over.

I'd rather watch a story about a character trying their damndest to survive but still come up short than a group of bumbling buffoons getting picked like they're in a Jason movie.
I didn't love either movies (though they both have interesting elements), but certainly not for the reason you mentioned. I find it a bizarre lack of empathy to not care about characters even if they were not uber badasses. And i don't think that many of them actively qualify as stupid (I'll admit: the captain in Covenant kind of does though).

Also the helmet point that people love to harp on does not really make that much sense either, especially in the second movie. As any biologist would tell you, if you want to be hard-science and all, there is very little reason to expect that foreign life would be dangerous to us. Bugs/viruses adapt *to us*. You could argue the first group had an inch that the engineer were genetically similar to us, but even then it's a stretch.
 

raindoc

Member
No one is upset that 'protocol wasn't followed.'

protocol demands helmets, even according to the prometheus script - which was a stupid mess, no argument here.

There is no 'fixation on helmets.'
you sure talk a lot about them (helmets) for that.

The reason 'people are going on about it' is because not wearing a helmet IS EXACTLY WHAT GETS SOME OF THE CREW INFECTED.

'what the fuck it just melted his protective helmet! I'm kinda terrified now...'

If it makes you feel any better: the only Alien movie I really like as an Alien movie is Alien. Aliens is a great space-action movie, but imo it turned the creature into a glorified ant. or bee. whatever hive floats your boat - The way it is, I'd prefer if Cameron had use other creatures/lore. Alien3 went into the right direction but failed the execution. Not gonna comment Resurrection. Never saw a whole AvP movie. Prometheus is forever tainted because of the really, really stupid actions of the characters (helmets being the least of my problems, as stated)... as for A:C - In a perfect world Sir Ridley would have gotten the funds without selling the movies as Alien prequels. New franchise, sci-fi horror about the origins of life (on earth). IMO the xeno at the end was the worst part of Covenant and it (the story of David's creation) kinda makes the title of the first movie absurd. "Alien" - just how alien is the creature now that we know it is the product of a man-made robot playing with goo made by the same species that created humanity... it's more like "Cousin" now.
 
Anyone else thinks the world in this movie is not the Engineers homeworld but rather just a colony? I mean from what we see it seems the Engineers only had one city built on this planet, which is just weird if this is really the Engineers homeworld. Considering the Engineers are a spacefaring species, I seriously doubt David killed them all.

okay, I have not seen the movie (and I don't really care to, honestly), but:

They just needed that plot to go away. Here's a fridge logic moment for you: if the engineers were trying to kill humanity but crashed / failed on that planet where Prometheus takes place, how come their homeworld didn't check up on them? Did they forget?

Or did the plot conveniently needed a spacefaring civilization to conveniently forget to actually kill their creations because they realize it was a shitty idea to begin with? It's the latter btw, don't bother wasting your energy on that one. It's literally a 'fuck this plot' type scene that happens when a show or sequel needs to get rid of something set up previously (this really does happen a lot in TV shows, and occasionally video games too).

-----------------------------------------

Additionally, I feel like I've pitched the Weyland to David as creator thing a few times here a long ass time ago already, so it's oddly satisfying to see people calling that the best part as vindication by proxy. And yes I know that's all in my head, but I'm interested in what works in a (movie) story, not really in the franchise at this point. I can't explain why it suddenly feels tired now though. It didn't feel tired six months ago, but now it suddenly does, and I feel it's not because of this movie either. So I don't know what that is, but I'm sure potus 45 is somehow to blame.

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Also, ALIEN (Starbeast) was definitely written and made to be as hard sci-fi as possible for the times it was made in, following the literal and spiritual footprints of Ib Melchior, as exemplified in most of the actual movie being present in Planet of the Vampires (1965), written by Melchior. Other parts were inspired by It! The Terror From Outer Space (1958), in particular the air duct segment, but that movie doesn't have the scientific willingness that Ib Melchior put in his scripts and can be immediately seen on page one of O'Bannon's ALIEN script in the form of a star map to show the setting (I've written most of this already in the 'movies you watched' of April, where I went on a '50 movie spree).

Honestly the only jump in logic is the growth spurt within an unknown time window from chestbuster to mature form, but that might actually be accomplished by assuming it grows by combining atmosphere CO2 into its own structures like a terrestrial plant does. Considering breathable air needs its products to be held at a relative constant, the influx of material for the spawnling to grow rapidly is only limited by the generator of those resources, that is the air filters of the ship itself. (and yes, I've spent a bit too much time thinking about this)

Everything else can be basically explained by the splicer mechanism, which comes from a genetic freak among plants that creates hybrids around itself by mixing with other plants, effectively cockblocking the competition. Dutch botanist Hugo de Vries then wrongly assumed this was the process of mutation and that's where that concept comes from.
(I learned this from the BBC documentary What Darwin Didn't Know, specifically 17 minutes into it, which I can demonstrate by this flimsy youtube link, but there's no guarantee that will stay up) It's since been adjusted to 'gene damage' which is all bad, but the idea of mutation as category shifting (from say, radiation) is still lingering today. Hell, it's what X-Men is literally based on. (dududu dudu dududu dudu... wait what? Oh right, post)
The same 'splicer' mechanism is used by his film studies buddy John Carpenter in his assigned remake of The Thing, so the use of that by the two is intentional.

There is also the design of the information and safety labels on doors (like hazard symbols) and so on which were NOT part of general safety culture outside of heavy industrial facilities (invented only in 1966, according to wikipedia). ALIEN didn't just use them in its design, but it probably popularized it way outside it to the point where you now no longer even noticed that was ever even new. I know there is a youtube video on that, and it related back to Jodorowski's Dune because O'Bannon specifically brought that engineer with them to the ALIEN project, but I don't recall the actual video... and I can't relocate it either. :(

Also, as a key part of it being a more realistic take on the 'alien monster movie' concept (see 1950's), the improvised dialogue making the crew sound like regular space truckers is definitely a way to make it far more realistic than it perhaps needed to be, but that's why we love it. You can relate to their sense of dread of having no idea wtf is going on with that little shit THING bursting from a colleague and then specifically finds them instead of the other way around (it's not trapped with them, they're trapped with it).

But seriously, short version: it's hard sci-fi as fuck. Especially for a 1979 movie.
 

Mike M

Nick N
Man, this movie made a total mess out of the series. David is the creator of the xenomorphs, but somehow the Nostromo finds a derelict Engineer ship with a hold full of xenomorph eggs where the pilot died from a chest burster emergence? And the mural in Prometheus had a clear depiction of a xenomorph on display?

JLawyeahok.gif

I suppose there might be an out where the black goo is reversed engineered from xenomorph biology and David recreated the original, but that is a streeeeeeeeetch now.
 
like prometheus I enjoyed it on a pure "hard sci fi" level but the lore is like WTF

also the twist was telegraphed a mile away but w/e I hate when people are like "hurrr I figured out da twist"
 

Mister Wolf

Member
Man, this movie made a total mess out of the series. David is the creator of the xenomorphs, but somehow the Nostromo finds a derelict Engineer ship with a hold full of xenomorph eggs where the pilot died from a chest burster emergence? And the mural in Prometheus had a clear depiction of a xenomorph on display?

JLawyeahok.gif

I suppose there might be an out where the black goo is reversed engineered from xenomorph biology and David recreated the original, but that is a streeeeeeeeetch now.

That's the debate I got into in here. My contention is there is no set structure for the xenomorph as they adapt to whatever dna they come cross and take it down the same parasitic evolution path. The black goo will always make a xenomorph no matter what lifeform it come across. David did design his version like we have done throughout the years with domesticated canines. Deacon, Neomorph, xenomorph, are all the same dna adapting creature.
 

Zabka

Member
Man, this movie made a total mess out of the series. David is the creator of the xenomorphs, but somehow the Nostromo finds a derelict Engineer ship with a hold full of xenomorph eggs where the pilot died from a chest burster emergence? And the mural in Prometheus had a clear depiction of a xenomorph on display?

JLawyeahok.gif

I suppose there might be an out where the black goo is reversed engineered from xenomorph biology and David recreated the original, but that is a streeeeeeeeetch now.

Just wait until they get the prequel to this movie out of the way. Then another sequel and you'll finally get some answers!

Four fucking movies man.
 

Jarmel

Banned
No here you have idiot security experts leaving and splitting up on their own, and the single dumbest human being ever depicted, following a crazed android around as he proceeds to inform him of all the fucked up shit he did. Then after seeing that all the Alien crap that killed his people where created by said android, he conveniently trusts him that, "don't worry, it's safe!"

Do we really want to get into this because I can play this game. We could talk about how the two scientists seemingly got lost in the cave system. How about that Shaw never brings up the squid baby to the other crewmembers that are holding her? Do we even want to start talking about how the black goo does whatever the plot demands of it? That's not even touching the Weyland garbage.

Prometheus's script is leagues worse than this.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
I don't know the differences between hard and...soft?...sci-fi. But I do agree that Alien in particular and Aliens to a lesser degree felt more grounded in many ways. But that has as much to do with how the films approached character, as the world they inhabit.

While set in the future and featuring stuff like long range space travel and cryosleep, the crew of the Nostromo were space truckers. They were hauling rocks through space. The ship was relatively lo-fi, and not just because it was made in 1979. Nothing is glamorous in the ship. It's a dirty, confined mining rig in space. When they realize why Mother woke them up, they have a mix of pretty understandable reactions. How much do we get paid? Do we have to check this out? Why can't we just go home?

All the problems they run into are understandable. Rough terrain making for a rough landing. Communications breaking up in the alien atmosphere as they walk far away from the landing ship. Needing to wear space suits to leave the ship. Bitching about the long walk. Etc.

It's against that backdrop of relative drudgery and every day life of truckers in space that they run into H.R. Giger's drooling penis monster. There's this feeling that they've stumbled onto something wholly other - the ship and its contents are so far removed from their world and understanding it creates this enormous contrast. "Alien" isn't just the monster, it's the descriptor for everything they encounter. And they have absolutely no roadmap for how to deal with it. They try, and fail tragically because what they're dealing with is so far outside their understanding. And critically, the movie cared about that contrast, about both sides of the equation. It's what it was about.

Prometheus and Covenant are just interested in the weird shit. They create false crises that we don't understand, but aren't meant to because the director is more interested in the mechanics of the plot than the people in it. They never bother to draw us into the crew, don't bother to make them semi-intelligent people doing their best, don't do anything to establish a point of view that the characters are operating from (outside of platitudes). They're just there so Scott can play connect the dots between these movies and Alien, and he's got no pretense for doing the heavy lifting that Alien did. (No one dies until halfway through the film.) And he's plainly making it up as he's going. Covenant in particular has this feeling of a rushed freak show. Spores! Mutations! Dead Engineers! Aggressive aliens! Psychopathic androids!

These movies have yet to establish any reason to give a shit about anyone it them, or to even get invested in the series as a whole because Scott will discard the entire thrust of one movie to chase the latest shiny object that he gets excited about.

Okay, that went sideways.
 

Jarmel

Banned
These movies have yet to establish any reason to give a shit about anyone it them, or to even get invested in the series as a whole because Scott will discard the entire thrust of one movie to chase the latest shiny object that he gets excited about.

Okay, that went sideways.

All of this fair. Scott is clearly making this shit up as he goes along.

The character though you're supposed to be emotionally invested in, is David. David is the emotional core of both of these new films. In some ways these two films are what I imagine a Blade Runner 2 would be like (without the xenomorphs or space stuff of course). The audience is supposed to be curious whether David can essentially win and watch his character spiral further into madness.
 
David is the creator of the xenomorphs, but somehow the Nostromo finds a derelict Engineer ship with a hold full of xenomorph eggs where the pilot died from a chest burster emergence?

David's gonna crash an Engineer ship on LV-426 with a hold full of eggs he created out of the colonists on the Covenant.

David being the Jockey is where this series is now pointing.
 

Mike M

Nick N
That's the debate I got into in here. My contention is there is no set structure for the xenomorph as they adapt to whatever dna they come cross and take it down the same parasitic evolution path. The black goo will always make a xenomorph no matter what lifeform it come across. David did design his version like we have done throughout the years with domesticated canines. Deacon, Neomorph, xenomorph, are all the same dna adapting creature.

Ehhhhhhhhhhh, I'm not sure that holds up. The goo didn't make any xenomorphs in Prometheus, it took someone getting infected, impregnating an uninfected human, and then having that offspring go all facehugger on an Engineer (who are genetically human) to produce something even remotely similar. And I knows it's all made up movies anyway, but the deacon and neomorph are fleshy, mammalian-looking things while the xenomorph clearly has an exoskeletal structure.

I don't think it's a matter of the goo always producing a xenomorph so much as iterating over multiple generations of mutated stock will eventually produce the original organism, or something very close to it (these ones had chest burster phase, for instance).
 
I did not particularly think the movie was all that great and while I enjoyed it I thought it was overall maybe a 3 or 4 out of 5. Good and enjoyable but nothing downright amazing.

That said, that scene on the lander with the pilot, the doctor, and the security dude...holy shit i felt that tension and was legitimately scared for a bit there. I havent felt like that at a movie in years. Those actors sold the hell out of that scene for me and i loved it. Easily the highlight of the movie. Singlehandedly bumped it from a 2 or 3 to a 3 or 4. Damn good scene. Pretty decent film. Makes me want to go hard and go after the books/comics now. I know theyre probably bad but it has gotten me back into Alien for the first time in years.
 
I did not particularly think the movie was all that great and while I enjoyed it I thought it was overall maybe a 3 or 4 out of 5. Good and enjoyable but nothing downright amazing.

That said, that scene on the lander with the pilot, the doctor, and the security dude...holy shit i felt that tension and was legitimately scared for a bit there. I havent felt like that at a movie in years. Those actors sold the hell out of that scene for me and i loved it. Easily the highlight of the movie. Singlehandedly bumped it from a 2 or 3 to a 3 or 4. Damn good scene. Pretty decent film. Makes me want to go hard and go after the books/comics now. I know theyre probably bad but it has gotten me back into Alien for the first time in years.

As disappointing as it was that they applied the same exact behavior to the Xenomorph, the Neomorph's ferocity was great stuff.

Not sure what the comics deal in. There are some books that sort of ruin the transition from Alien to Aliens, but can't speak on the actual quality.

I mean, in terms of box office potential.

Creatively, it has been in the trash bin for 30 years.

Apples to oranges, but Alien Isolation didnt do well either. While mixed reviews are a factor, a lot of bad entries (including AvP series) and perhaps ebbing interest are also involved.
 
Maybe some people have just grown out of the Aliens stuff and their mind hasn't caught on? They keep watching these to see if there is anything left, and they go in expecting to be disappointed. As someone else mentioned, a lot of gamers that claimed to be big Alien fans didn't like AI, either. I don't know how you couldn't like it with all of the dickriding I see for the original film and Aliens in these threads. These new movies will never be what the old ones were at that time. Let's just be honest with ourselves. I liked the last couple movies a lot, but there are far better horror and sci fi films.
 

watershed

Banned
David's gonna crash an Engineer ship on LV-426 with a hold full of eggs he created out of the colonists on the Covenant.

David being the Jockey is where this series is now pointing.

I really dislike that this seems to be exactly where the series is headed. I think it may retroactively ruin some of Alien for me. The mystery of this huge fossilized alien pilot thing carrying a ship full of deadly eggs that become this monstrous space demon gets answered in a terrible way.
 
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