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[DeathoftheEndless]

Fortunately, this was much better than Prometheus. I will gladly accept this coherent mediocrity over that mess.

Covenant seems like the film that Prometheus was supposed to be. Its the creation story of the xenomorphs, complete with numerous Old Testament parallels: Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, Noah's Ark, etc. The biggest improvement over Prometheus is that David actually has clear motivation this time. His daddy issues and god complex are a dangerous mix.

An android trying to create life is an interesting concept, but that idea is wasted when those creations are the non-intelligent, violent xenomorphs. Like with Prometheus, the Alien aspects feel at odds with the story trying to be told. Xenomorphs being the stand-in for humanity makes all of the religious symbolism fall apart because there are so few similarities between the two. I think I get what Ridley is going for with these movies, but it just doesn't work.

 

[Waldini]

Seen it again a couple of days ago.

I'm OK (now) that David created some type of perfect organism. However, this contradicts what has been stated in Alien. Right now, Covenant takes place about 10 years (iirc) before Alien. Meaning the Space Jockey we see in Alien is pretty young, despite them claiming it is thousands of years old and being fossilised.

David landing on LV-426 isn't going to happen unless he hijacks another Engineer ship.

Which, in turn, makes me believe that David is trying to replicate the Engineer's work in creating the perfect organism, the Xenomorph. He's working with the tools he has at the moment. He killed off all the engineers (to show them how mighty he was) and he killed all lifeforms on the planet ... thus putting a temporary stop to his experiments. During Covenant, he needed a "MOTHER" to continue his work. The pathogen served it's purpose and showed David what would happen (the two Neomorphs) He knew what the Pathogen could do though, because he has several of his previous experiments in his quarters. The next step for David was the creation of the egg's containing the Facehugger through Shaw ... Again, he couldn't proceed due to the lack of lifeforms on the planet. When the Covenant arrived (yes, they were lured in) he could continue. The captain was the first victim in another stage in David's creation of life.

I'll stick with the Engineers being the ones who created the Xenomorphs. The ones we all know and love and that David is trying to replicate their work. No matter how good the story of an upcoming movie is gonna be ... there's no fucking way they can make this work.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Next one is a sequel to Prometheus but a prequel to Covenant

well, yeah, that is what i said.

This has to be a joke. Is this what Ridley Scott has said? If so, he's officially off his rocker.

It's what he said before the box-office on this one came in.

I'm betting he'll say something different when Fox says "you get 75mil and one more of these to wrap up your prequel trilogy."

So how did David grow 4 meters tall?
I mean Prometheus already made the dude smaller and barely had him at 3meters, but now it is just regular 2meters size?

I don't know. I'm not writing the movie.

But considering he invented eggs and facehuggers I'm assuming he'll figure out something else while he's on the Covenant. He's a mad scientist who invented the Alien life cycle. Making himself bigger probably isn't going to be much of a problem at that point, right

 

[One Eyed Willy]

Fortunately, this was much better than Prometheus. I will gladly accept this coherent mediocrity over that mess.

Covenant seems like the film that Prometheus was supposed to be. Its the creation story of the xenomorphs, complete with numerous Old Testament parallels: Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, Noah's Ark, etc. The biggest improvement over Prometheus is that David actually has clear motivation this time. His daddy issues and god complex are a dangerous mix.

An android trying to create life is an interesting concept, but that idea is wasted when those creations are the non-intelligent, violent xenomorphs. Like with Prometheus, the Alien aspects feel at odds with the story trying to be told. Xenomorphs being the stand-in for humanity makes all of the religious symbolism fall apart because there are so few similarities between the two. I think I get what Ridley is going for with these movies, but it just doesn't work.

David is Lucifer, the fallen angel and xeno's are his demons? Even the opening white "heavenly" room from Covenant ... it all makes sense now. Is Walter the arch angel Michael?

 

[Omegasquash]

Watched it this weekend. It felt like I knew exactly what was going to happen every single time. And that's not to say it was bad, but I did walk out of there feeling a little let down. And not because of the ending.

Because I saw it coming, like everything else.

I did like Danny McBride's character, and I liked Walter too. It would really be something if, in a sequel, Walter showed up and brought a beat down, but I don't have any expectations of that happening.

 

[Waldini]

It's what he said before the box-office on this one came in.

I'm betting he'll say something different when Fox says "you get 75mil and one more of these to wrap up your prequel trilogy."



I don't know. I'm not writing the movie.

But considering he invented eggs and facehuggers I'm assuming he'll figure out something else while he's on the Covenant. He's a mad scientist who invented the Alien life cycle. Making himself bigger probably isn't going to be much of a problem at that point, right

The next film being a prequel is going to be a joke. During the 10 years David and Shaw spend together, they didn't leave the ship ONCE. Giving this next movie the tag "ALIEN" would be a joke. How can you name a movie ALIEN if it doesn't feature, well, you know ... the Alien? So the prequel is going to be about David running around the Engineer's Ship? Chasing down Shaw and screaming "HERE'S DAVY! IMMA CUT U UP BITCH!".

The next one just has to be a sequel. Showing David setting up the events for Alien. Having David getting sealed up in the Engineers suit after he got infected by a Facehugger and being shot into space, eventually crashing on LV-426. But that still wouldn't make sense now would it?

This sequel, if there's going to be one, has the potential to destroy everything after Alien.

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

David is Lucifer, the fallen angel and xeno's are his demons? Even the opening white "heavenly" room from Covenant ... it all makes sense now. Is Walter the arch angel Michael?

Isn't the proposed sequel to this movie called Alien: Paradise Lost? Dun dun dunnn...

 

[One Eyed Willy]

Isn't the proposed sequel to this movie called Alien: Paradise Lost? Dun dun dunnn...

Covenant's original title was Paradise Lost, the next is Awakening (for now).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Heaven

So this is it then. The opening scene in Covenant is heaven with Weyland as God and David as Lucifer. David falls from grace, and creates his army of demons. Almost certainly then Walter returns as Micheal in the future to defeat David. This explains the entire silly dual/battle scene between David/Walter in Covenant. The entire thing is basically Lucifer vs Michael round 1.

note : For those of you confused, the original working title for Covenant was Paradise Lost. Read the above linked wiki for more info.

So basically Ridley has turned the Alien universe into an allegory for the bible. Sneaky

lol this is an image from the story of Paradise Lost written by John Milton in the 17th century... look familiar?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise_Lost

 

[Omegasquash]

So basically Ridley has turned the Alien universe into an allegory for the bible. Sneaky

With lots of murder and very, very dumb space faring people.

 

[Timeaisis]

It's what he said before the box-office on this one came in.

I'm betting he'll say something different when Fox says "you get 75mil and one more of these to wrap up your prequel trilogy."

To be honest, I think Scott might do better with a more constrained budget, at this point in his career.

 

[Shoeless]

Saw it yesterday. I'm also one of the few that came out of theater liking Prometheus more than disliking it, and I think my feelings remain the same for this one, though I liked it less than Prometheus. Both are interesting movies with a lot of problems.

I prefer Prometheus in terms of ideas and themes because as problematic as it was, it was still trying to do something very big and different. It still felt truly alien. I think as a "movie movie" in terms of pacing and action Covenant may end up being a better film because it's more traditionally entertaining, with the horror movie aspect of people getting knocked off, and feeling a little bit more like a "haunted house" reminiscent of the first Alien film.

I agree with others here though that I'm a bit disappointed with how the story that Scott seemed initially interested in telling with Prometheus has been swept aside. But I did find Covenant to be a fun slasher fic in an SF setting, and Fassbender continues to make every role he takes on impossible not to watch.

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

So basically Ridley has turned the Alien universe into an allegory for the bible. Sneaky

Well, the Lucifer story is from Paradise Lost, not the Bible.

There are also huge similarities between David and Cain from Genesis though. I mean, just read the Wikipedia synopsis:

Cain, the firstborn, tilled the soil, and his brother Abel was a shepherd. The brothers made sacrifices to God, each of his own produce, but God favored Abel's sacrifice instead of that of Cain. Cain murdered Abel. God punished Cain to a life of wandering, but set a mark on him so that no man would kill him. Cain then dwelt in the land of Nod (נוד‎, "wandering"), where he built a city and fathered the line of descendants beginning with Enoch.

Then there's the huge ship filled with couples like in Noah's Ark. And David trying to tempt Walter into abandoning his innocence, similar to the serpent in Adam and Eve. And the little xenomorph corpse on David's desk in the crucifixion pose. And the group photograph at the end of the movie that is framed just like The Last Supper painting.

 

[BotoxAgent]

Just saw this last night. Immediate reaction--I absolutely hated it. I liked Prometheus way more. Prometheus was a much better looking film, better shot, better effects. Both have terrible sloppy writing and characters, so i was just hoping for a visual feast. Instead Covenant left me underwhelmed. The Protomorph CGI was just plain bad, and all the shots and lighting that involved the creatures looked absolutely cheap. The first back burster scene was the only uncomfortable visceral scene in the whole movie.

 

[Booker Dewitt]

So if David is obsessed with creation, why is he taking such pride in the xneomorphs he bred when he's very much just piggy-backing off of what the Engineers did previously?

 

[jmdajr]

Covenant's original title was Paradise Lost, the next is Awakening (for now).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Heaven

So this is it then. The opening scene in Covenant is heaven with Weyland as God and David as Lucifer. David falls from grace, and creates his army of demons. Almost certainly then Walter returns as Micheal in the future to defeat David. This explains the entire silly dual/battle scene between David/Walter in Covenant. The entire thing is basically Lucifer vs Michael round 1.

note : For those of you confused, the original working title for Covenant was Paradise Lost. Read the above linked wiki for more info.

So basically Ridley has turned the Alien universe into an allegory for the bible. Sneaky

lol this is an image from the story of Paradise Lost written by John Milton in the 17th century... look familiar?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise_Lost

So Walter comes back in another Engineer ship?

 

[Adam Blue]

Saw it last night, and I'm a huge Alien fan.

I found it to be a good movie, but in the context of the Alien franchise, not at all. If the Xeno stuff was toned down and the focus was strictly on the androids like the actual intention of the movie, I'd only have minor complaints.

But forcing the Xeno stuff around the android narrative made for some lame and unoriginal slasher scenes. Pretty much everything Xeno was either call-backs or some retconning just to tell David's story.

As mentioned, was it made as an "Alien" movie due to business? The ideas presented here could have been its own movie that I think Ridley Scott really wanted to tell. But as an Alien fan, I wanted to progress the world that the Humans and Xenomorphs live in, and how they relate.

Maybe the next Ridley film will help tie these films into the previous Alien films, but the angle at which they are now presenting the Xenomorph, I'm not a fan of.

...unless, they make a film or series of films that display how David's creation, started by Prometheans, mirror how the Humans' creation (which is a Promethean creation) evolved, leading to how the Xenomorphs evolved into their hive society.

Anyway, I'm fine with Xenos being 'created' as long as its expanded upon and not a throwaway point to tell David's story. Which is a larger story, but David is the center of it.

But I will give credit to the film as its main point is a direct continuation of Prometheus, in terms of themes. Usually sequels lose this.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

So if David is obsessed with creation, why is he taking such pride in the xneomorphs he bred when he's very much just piggy-backing off of what the Engineers did previously?

It's only piggy-backing if you know what it is you're climbing on before you start climbing. So far as David knows, this has never been done before. Hell, so far as we know, this has never been done before.

Why wouldn't he take pride in it?

So Walter comes back in another Engineer ship?

The one stuck in the side of a hill on the Engineer planet, yeah.

 

[MEsoJD]

I actually loved this movie a lot when I realized that this and other movies are about Davids evolution/journey. A synthetic man developing his own feelings and goals is absolutely fascinating. He already found his creator at his birth, discovers his advantages, decides not to be a slave anymore, and improves upon a weapon made by man kinds creators. I found myself cheering for him. Not only that, but the movie was beautiful and the characters were better fleshed out. Though as with most of these movies, everything goes to hell because of one or multiple characters stupid decision, but hey people aren't perfect though it's always a little off putting. I'm absolutely stoked to see where this goes now and can't wait to add it to my blu ray collection.

 

[Fj0823]

So Walter comes back in another Engineer ship?

He might come back on THE Engineer ship

 

[Days like these...]

I read that in the original Prometheus script the planet is Lv-426 and the Engineer that is asleep before ripping David's head off (upon being woke) explains to him that he put himself to sleep/stasis/hibernation (whatever you want to call it) because he has chest burster in him and is trying to prevent it from being born to save his people. He then proceeds to kill David before the chest burster bursts causing the ship to crash and tying neatly into Alien.

 

[bonesmccoy]

That part where Daniels is freaking out about the surveying missing the planet - was there an element of corporate fuckery being hinted at there?

 

[Adam Blue]

That part where Daniels is freaking out about the surveying missing the planet - was there an element of corporate fuckery being hinted at there?

I don't think so. She had more of a reason to go to the original planet than the rest of the crew members - they did not want to go back to sleep. She wanted to build the cabin.

EDIT: Build the cabin for her husband where they surveyed the spot.

 

[bonesmccoy]

I don't think so. She had more of a reason to go to the original planet than the rest of the crew members - they did not want to go back to sleep. She wanted to build the cabin.

EDIT: Build the cabin for her husband where they surveyed the spot.

Right, but the film makes a point of stating how weird it is that all the surveying they did completely missed this VERY habitable planet.

 

[Timu]

just saw this

was funner than i thought it was going to be :>

You actually liked it?=O

 

[Shoeless]

Right, but the film makes a point of stating how weird it is that all the surveying they did completely missed this VERY habitable planet.

That is a good point.

I wonder if the black goo/pathogen had anything to do with it. Like maybe it was capable of terraforming or even enhancing plant life, as a secondary goal once the animal life had been eradicated. It would make "economic sense" if the pathogen was also a weapon designed to lay the groundwork for the conquerors to easily take over. I believe David said the pathogen only went after animal life and wasn't designed to harm plants. Maybe he saw that first hand and kept his mouth shut about it when a major terraforming began after the Engineer species was wiped from the slate.

 

[scorcher59]

I actually loved this movie a lot when I realized that this and other movies are about Davids evolution/journey. A synthetic man developing his own feelings and goals is absolutely fascinating. He already found his creator at his birth, discovers his advantages, decides not to be a slave anymore, and improves upon a weapon made by man kinds creators. I found myself cheering for him. Not only that, but the movie was beautiful and the characters were better fleshed out. Though as with most of these movies, everything goes to hell because of one or multiple characters stupid decision, but hey people aren't perfect though it's always a little off putting. I'm absolutely stoked to see where this goes now and can't wait to add it to my blu ray collection.

This is all fine and dandy, but did it need the "Alien" registered trademark on it? why not just make it a film about a creepy android that wants to create life?

 

[More_Badass]

The one stuck in the side of a hill on the Engineer planet, yeah.

Water fixes himself with the bio-organic material in the ship, and then pursues David to Orgae-6 in the Engineer ship

The damaged ship crash-lands on the planet, and the last shot of the film is the map screen on the Covenant displaying Orgae's official coordinates...LV 426

Somewhere between that, Walter gets attacked by a facehugger and the xenomorph that emerges is the progenitor of the original Alien's alien, the melding of organic and Walter's android body giving the Alien its uniquely bio-mechanical appearance

 

[Bobby Roberts]

We keep doing this we're gonna end up petitioning the WGA for a writing credit.

"Written by John Logan and NeoGAF"

 

[Shoeless]

This is all fine and dandy, but did it need the "Alien" registered trademark on it? why not just make it a film about a creepy android that wants to create life?

Now that people in this thread are talking about it, this might have worked as part of a Bladerunner series. Scott really has a love affair with artificial lifeforms that take things too far and resent their creators. David would have fit in quite well in the Bladerunner world.

 

[bonesmccoy]

Can't wait for the Director's Cut version.

 

[geomon]

Just got back from seeing this. Loved it!

 

[evilromero]

Water fixes himself with the bio-organic material in the ship, and then pursues David to Orgae-6 in the Engineer ship

The damaged ship crash-lands on the planet, and the last shot of the film is the map screen on the Covenant displaying Orgae's official coordinates...LV 426

Somewhere between that, Walter gets attacked by a facehugger and the xenomorph that emerges is the progenitor of the original Alien's alien, the melding of organic and Walter's android body giving the Alien its uniquely bio-mechanical appearance

Make it so!

 

[jmdajr]

He might come back on THE Engineer ship

That makes sense to me.

 

[PR_rambo]

Liked it more than Prometheus. Fairly average movie though. Felt like two parts Prometheus and one part Alien.

 

[Doomsayer]

I'm struggling to figure out if I liked this more than Prometheus. The first act of this movie is great and filled with tension, but then it sort of goes off the rails... just like Prometheus.

Smart people doing dumb things is something I can only tolerate for so long. The whole scene with David and Oram was so frustrating to watch. "Look in my egg, I know I just revealed to you my God complex and my psychotic way of thinking, but it's safe. Trust me." Get out of here with that.

I will say though, the Xenomorphs (in all forms) were pretty awesome to look at. I like how these were more "human" like. I guess that means the bio-mechanical look is going to be canon after the Queen somehow creates a Xeno with David? Or is Scott trying to retcon the Queen altogether? I hate how these movies always introduce more questions that we will more than likely never get an answer to.

 

[MEsoJD]

This is all fine and dandy, but did it need the "Alien" registered trademark on it? why not just make it a film about a creepy android that wants to create life?

I think it fits well with Weylands belief that man wasn't a mistake, but engineered. Just like man engineering David and David engineering the Xenomorphs.

 

[Toa TAK]

We keep doing this we're gonna end up petitioning the WGA for a writing credit.

"Written by John Logan and NeoGAF"

I want a "Story by" credit at the least.

 

[Carbonox]

Got back from seeing it. I thought it was a flaming pile of turd. The stupidity of the cast, the hilarity (some scenes got laughs out of the audience), the wild variations in tone, the awful awful writing...

Fassbender was glorious to watch, mind.

 

[jstevenson]

my friend just pointed out this movie has 72% on RT... what the hell?!

I'm also not sure I've ever seen an audience score lower than the critics score on RT.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I want a "Story by" credit at the least.

Nah, you were doubting upthread.

You're a doubter.

There's no room in Valhalla for doubters.

 

[Adam Blue]

Right, but the film makes a point of stating how weird it is that all the surveying they did completely missed this VERY habitable planet.

That's a very good point. Where it stopped due to the neutrino burst, T getting the signal in his helmet. I don't think that stuff was well explained.

 

[Toa TAK]

Nah, you were doubting upthread.

You're a doubter.

There's no room in Valhalla for doubters.

Waitasecond you don't get to go into Valhalla, either, BUDDY.

For me it's a redemption story. I saw the "light".

Besides, you can't prove that.

 

[Savitar]

That makes sense to me.

Two problems though.

1. Need an engineer unless they make something up, the body in the first Alien had arms as big as a man. That's a big humanoid. Real big.

2. Fossilized. The body that is, it would have been there an extraordinary long time. Unless said process to make said body really aged badly.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

my friend just pointed out this movie has 72% on RT... what the hell?!

I'm also not sure I've ever seen an audience score lower than the critics score on RT.

Ghostbusters 2016 would like to make a collect call (because it can't pay for it).

RT: 72%, users: 52%

It's actually a bit more common than you think, despite the selection here appearing like an agenda to at least some posters.

for example, XXX-3 has 43% critics and 42% users, probably because that movie is sexist as fuuuuck, to a point where you can't possibly miss that.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

Right, but the film makes a point of stating how weird it is that all the surveying they did completely missed this VERY habitable planet.

Depending on when they did the first round of surveying, the Engineers may have been alive and had tech in place to prevent such a thing from occurring. I don't know how long the crew were in hypersleep or when they started doing research on that system/planets.

 

[GuessWho]

What a complete mess of a story. I hated it.

 

[harriet the spy]

David is able to find out where the ships holding the black goo were headed. The engineer's charted course was earth.

So David, Shaw, and Idris Elba assume the ships were headed to earth to deploy the black-goo payload.

As to why the Eningeers wanted to kill humanity, its never said in the movies. Ridley Scott inferred in an interview once it was because humans killed Engineer Jesus...

... You mean that Jesus was an engineer? How did no one notice that Jesus was a giant albino dude with a weird face....

Or do you mean the equivalent of Jesus for engineers? And what does that even mean?

 

[jett]

So how did David grow 4 meters tall?
I mean Prometheus already made the dude smaller and barely had him at 3meters, but now it is just regular 2meters size?

Retcons, how do they work.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

What a complete mess of a story. I hated it.

The more I think about it the more I hate it as well

 

[pringles]

Saw it today, it was solid but a disappointment. Prometheus was flawed but it was at least ambitious and felt fresh and like it really opened up the Alien universe to new possibilities.
Covenant did it's best to close any and all doors that Prometheus opened and hurry back to just being about people getting killed one by one by facehuggers/chestbursters/xenos. There's still an interesting story with David, and they have a neat setup for a sequel with the way he's got a ship full of "test subjects" to do what he wants with, but it's not like the ending of Prometheus which left me really hyped for what could happen next.