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[Ahoi-Brause]

Well the original Venetian Italians were very dark skinned. I went to south Italy some years back and there are people dark as me. Look predynastic Egypt was African and so were earlier dynasties. The later dynasties saw the migration of Europeans in North Africa.

Dark skin does not make you a sub-saharan african, of course south italians are tanned as fuck (and even jokingly called "africans" by north italians) but nobody in their right mind would say they're black people.

Because on the other hand white skin does not magically turn sub-saharan africans into caucasians.

It's just different genetics, nothing wrong with that. But all the american pc-stuff really works against diversity.
Like implying all africans are basically sub-saharan africans, etc.

 

[Vic]

Nah, north africa was always basically south italy, look at the genetic makeup of the native population there.
Most sub-saharan africans never crossed the sahara (considering their name this is pretty logic).

About that, here's a interesting link which talks about rock art in North Africa created in a era where this part of the Sahara was habitable for people & cattles:

The folks who write about this part of Africa frequently compare this area to a lunar landscape. It was once lush and green. It is now hot, dry, and very uncomfortable. It is the number of drawings and paintings that have survived over time that bring the visitors to this area. Given that there are reported to be 15,000 paintings, we can not, as with other parts of Africa, bring them all to you.

 

[Raiden]

Dark skin does not make you a sub-saharan african, of course south italians are tanned as fuck (and even jokingly called "africans" by north italians) but nobody in their right mind would say they're black people.

Because on the other hand white skin does not magically turn sub-saharan africans into caucasians.

It's just different genetics, nothing wrong with that. But all the american pc-stuff really works against diversity.
Like implying all africans are basically sub-saharan africans, etc.

Wow that looks ... disturbing. No offense, but wow.

 

[theb0xmIke]

lol....

i like this thread

 

[Measley]

Nah, north africa was always basically south italy, look at the genetic makeup of the native population there.
Most sub-saharan africans never crossed the sahara (considering their name this is pretty logic).
But whitey stole da pyramids, rite?

Eastern Africa isn't like Western Africa. The Nile river flows from south to north, so population groups simply followed the Nile up the river from the African interior towards the Mediterranean. If you doubt this, look at where the majority of Egypt's major cities were. All of them were in the interior of the continent.

BTW, this study is pretty silly. I have sub-saharan African heritage, but I also have equal amounts of European and Asian (Amerindian) heritage as well. Once again a racial study doesn't take into account the racial diversity of the modern world.

 

[Kayo-kun]

wat

And actually, there's a lot report of mass migration of Asiatics into the Egypt ever since the Middle Kingdom.

Enough to completely change the majority of the ethnicities in the region? There surely were immigration to Egypt, but I doubt it was that enormous that some people make it seem.

 

[Sickboy007]

BTW, this study is pretty silly. I have sub-saharan African heritage, but I also have equal amounts of European and Asian (Amerindian) heritage as well. Once again a racial study doesn't take into account the racial diversity of the modern world.

But why is it stupid? As you said, you have african, european and asian heritage, therefore if the study is correct you possibly have neanderthal genes. what's silly about it?

 

[Vic]

Enough to completely change the majority of the ethnicities in the region? There surely were immigration to Egypt, but I doubt it was that enormous that some people make it seem.

It was sure big enough to take control of the nation at some point in Egyptian history (see: Hyksos)

 

[Yagharek]

I reckon this is cool news. It would have been awesome if neanderthals had survived as their own species, but that we still carry their dna around in some form is the next best thing.

 

[onipex]

Funny I had this thought years ago and actually got the idea from Sunday school .

 

[Measley]

But why is it stupid? As you said, you have african, european and asian heritage, therefore if the study is correct you possibly have neanderthal genes. what's silly about it?

In retrospect, I probably went a little to far in that statement. What I should of said is that this news will be interpreted in nasty and terrible ways by racists and bigots. In the end, instead of being used as a tool for knowledge and enlightenment, it will be used as a tool for division and ignorance.

 

[cobragt4001]

Dark skin does not make you a sub-saharan african, of course south italians are tanned as fuck (and even jokingly called "africans" by north italians) but nobody in their right mind would say they're black people.

Because on the other hand white skin does not magically turn sub-saharan africans into caucasians.



It's just different genetics, nothing wrong with that. But all the american pc-stuff really works against diversity.
Like implying all africans are basically sub-saharan africans, etc.

The only reason I mentioned southern Italians being dark is to make a point they are descendents of original Africans and that Africans inhabited parts of Italy. Yes, Africa now is not all Afro but originally it was, like North America was originally Natives.

 

[elsk]

Are those photos... real? Seriously disturbing.

 

[Vic]

The only reason I mentioned southern Italians being dark is to make a point they are descendents of original Africans and that Africans inhabited parts of Italy. And why are you showing me African albinos?

Eh? That's not the reason behind the darkish skin-tone.

 

[kodecraft]

were the very first humans/africans actually black?
or did they turn black adapting to the climate

Adapting to the climate makes the most sense.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

The only reason I mentioned southern Italians being dark is to make a point they are descendents of original Africans and that Africans inhabited parts of Italy. Yes, Africa now is not all Afro but originally it was, like North America was originally Natives.

That's not the real reason, what you're doing is again just retelling some american pc-fantasy.

Are those photos... real? Seriously disturbing.

Of course those are real

 

[Measley]

Dark skin does not make you a sub-saharan african, of course south italians are tanned as fuck (and even jokingly called "africans" by north italians) but nobody in their right mind would say they're black people.

Because on the other hand white skin does not magically turn sub-saharan africans into caucasians.

It's just different genetics, nothing wrong with that. But all the american pc-stuff really works against diversity.
Like implying all africans are basically sub-saharan africans, etc.

The ancient Egyptians started off as being more sub-Saharan African. Over the centuries they became lighter as they came more into contact with west Asian people. This is proven by that wall painting that shows that the Egyptians viewed themselves as a distinct group from everyone else.

I mean hell, doesn't anyone look at Latin America?

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

The ancient Egyptians started off as being more sub-Saharan African. Over the centuries they became lighter as they came more into contact with west Asian people. This is proven by that wall painting that shows that the Egyptians viewed themselves as a distinct group from everyone else.

I mean hell, doesn't anyone look at Latin America?

How do you define "more sub-saharan african".
Like I said before this is all lysekoism. North africa was never all black, even if some american scientists get all hot and bothered by the idea of how fucking politically correct that would be.
And with never all black I am talking about the last 10.000 years, because we need a time-window for reference here.

 

[Kayo-kun]

It was sure big enough to take control of the nation at some point in Egyptian history (see: Hyksos)

Sure, but that doesn't say much about the population itself now does it? What I get out of wiki is that there were Asiatic rulers that conquered Egypt and that there were probably immigration to that region. But the majority of the people in that region probably still were "native Egyptian".

Also from the article: "The Hyksos kingdom was centered in the eastern Nile Delta and Middle Egypt and was limited in size, never extending south into Upper Egypt"

 

[Vicetrailia]

I'd personally use logical thinking and looking at the Egyptian region and the people today make me doubt they looked far more different back in the days. It's not like the Americas were the region had significant population changes due to centuries of mass immigration.

Hah, humans are very funny and interesting creatures. Dude this isn't logic.

 

[Kayo-kun]

Hah, humans are very funny and interesting creatures. Dude this isn't logic.

Then what is? Please elaborate alien.

 

[Sickboy007]

In retrospect, I probably went a little to far in that statement. What I should of said is that this news will be interpreted in nasty and terrible ways by racists and bigots. In the end, instead of being used as a tool for knowledge and enlightenment, it will be used as a tool for division and ignorance.

Racists and bigots will always find ways to twist reality and science, doesn't mean we shouldn't be happy to find out more stuff about our history. Moreover, i don't think white supremacist will be ecstatic about being linked to the quintessential cavemen!

The only reason I mentioned southern Italians being dark is to make a point they are descendents of original Africans and that Africans inhabited parts of Italy. Yes, Africa now is not all Afro but originally it was, like North America was originally Natives.

I think you're mixing up "moors" invasions of southern italy and spain and native populations.
Anyway, anyone is descended from Africans, even Neanderthals descended from their african ancestors.

 

[Measley]

How do you define "more sub-saharan african".
Like I said before this is all lysekoism. North africa was never all black, even if some american scientists get all hot and bothered by the idea of how fucking politically correct that would be.
And with never all black I am talking about the last 10.000 years, because we need a time-window for reference here.

Again, look at the painting. Notice the Nubian? Nubia was at the southern border of Egypt for centuries. You're telling me that a country of blacks directly south of Egypt is going to have no effect on that civilization? Also there was no natural barriers between Nubia and Egypt.

 

[Vic]

Sure, but that doesn't say much about the population itself now does it? What I get out of wiki is that there were Asiatic rulers that conquered Egypt and that there were probably immigration to that region. But the majority of the people in that region probably still were "native Egyptian".

Also from the article: "The Hyksos kingdom was centered in the eastern Nile Delta and Middle Egypt and was limited in size, never extending south into Upper Egypt"

I never said that Asians fully replaced the local populace. I just mentioned that there was a noticeable migration of Asian into the Delta as noted by the Egyptians themselves, starting from the Middle Kingdom era.

 

[Measley]

Racists and bigots will always find ways to twist reality and science, doesn't mean we shouldn't be happy to find out more stuff about our history. Moreover, i don't think white supremacist will be ecstatic about being linked to the quintessential cavemen!

Don't bet on it. White supremacists are always looking for ways to drive wedges between themselves and everyone else.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

Again, look at the painting. Notice the Nubian? Nubia was at the southern border of Egypt for centuries. You're telling me that a country of blacks directly south of Egypt is going to have no effect on that civilization? Also there was no natural barriers between Nubia and Egypt.

That's not your original point anymore though.
Now you're talking about having a border to "blacks".

Like I said, this american pc-crap is messing with so many people's heads. How hard is it to accept that egypt probably was always full of egyptians and not some mysterious black superrace that suddenly vanished as soon as they came in contact with other civilizations.

 

[SmokyDave]

Don't bet on it. White supremacists are always looking for ways to drive wedges between themselves and everyone else.

I wouldn't worry about it. They thought they were different before, they think they're different now. Why should that concern you? They won't wait outside your house with signposts.

 

[bengraven]

I always kind of suspected this. I've thought that Homos would be raping/breeding Neanders out in the wide, expansive world and if a certain group bred, then all of us would have that blood in us. For example, the Mongols were so widely bred over such a large area that everyone has a tiny bit of Mongol in them somewhere. So I could see how that same logic could apply to Neandertals.

 

[Vic]

That's not your original point anymore though.
Now you're talking about having a border to "blacks".

Like I said, this american pc-crap is messing with so many people's heads. How hard is it to accept that egypt probably was always full of egyptians and not some mysterious black superrace that suddenly vanished as soon as they came in contact with other civilizations.

No offence, but so far you haven't argued much better about the subject than those who are fantasying about a black Egypt. Most of your statements seems to be baseless.

 

[cobragt4001]

Eh? That's not the reason behind the darkish skin-tone.

Melanin is the reason and Africans contain the most melanin of any ethnic group. If you believe because a person's skin tone is determined by climate step out now.

 

[Sickboy007]

Don't bet on it. White supremacists are always looking for ways to drive wedges between themselves and everyone else.

Well fuck them. Personally i'm happy knowing this because it means that sapiens sapiens expansion in the wider world didn't start with a complete genocide of our closest relative.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

I wouldn't worry about it. They thought they were different before, they think they're different now. Why should that concern you? They won't wait outside your house with signposts.

Why should anyone be concerned what white supremacists think? Are you concerend what the black panthers think?
I'm pretty sure that white supremacists now got their proof that they're the real humans and black people are the missing link.
And I'm pretty sure that the black supremacists now got their proof how they're the only "pure" humans.

No offence, but so far you haven't argued much better about the subject than those who are fantasying about a black Egypt. Most of your statements seems to be baseless.

Look back a few pages. I don't like playing a broke record.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Then what is? Please elaborate alien.

Because it was already covered.

 

[Measley]

That's not your original point anymore though.
Now you're talking about having a border to "blacks".

I'm talking about the Egyptian civilization starting off as more "black" and gradually growing more light as the centuries progressed. Again, the Nile moves from the south to the north, so population groups would naturally follow that river system as they develop their civilization. I used the Nubians as an example of the type of people who lived in the upper Nile region.

Like I said, this american pc-crap is messing with so many people's heads. How hard is it to accept that egypt probably was always full of egyptians and not some mysterious black superrace that suddenly vanished as soon as they came in contact with other civilizations.

Again, I defer to the painting, clearly showing the Egyptians as far darker than their North African and West Asian counterparts.

 

[Ryaaan14]

Den why we still got monkeys?

10/10

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

Again, I defer to the painting, clearly showing the Egyptians as far darker than their North African and West Asian counterparts.

Yeah, tanned probably. If you look at the forensic evidence the mummies that were reconstructed show no sub-saharan african features. And even nubian people are a stretch, since they lack many of the features of sub saharan africans as well.

Again, I couldn't care less, but the way american pseudo-lysekoistic pc science creeps into history and tries to repaint it is pretty annoying.

 

[Vic]

Look back a few pages. I don't like playing a broke record.

Heh, if you say so dude.

 

[cobragt4001]

That's not your original point anymore though.
Now you're talking about having a border to "blacks".

Like I said, this american pc-crap is messing with so many people's heads. How hard is it to accept that egypt probably was always full of egyptians and not some mysterious black superrace that suddenly vanished as soon as they came in contact with other civilizations.

They didn't vanish they moved South after being conquered, read your history. A good book would be The Destruction of the African Civilization by Chancellor Williams.

 

[cobragt4001]

Racists and bigots will always find ways to twist reality and science, doesn't mean we shouldn't be happy to find out more stuff about our history. Moreover, i don't think white supremacist will be ecstatic about being linked to the quintessential cavemen!



I think you're mixing up "moors" invasions of southern italy and spain and native populations.
Anyway, anyone is descended from Africans, even Neanderthals descended from their african ancestors.

No I'm not. I'm talking about the Venetian Italians that are way before the Moors.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

They didn't vanish they moved South after being conquered, read your history. A good book would be The Destruction of the African Civilization by Chancellor Williams.

Yeah, evil whitey destroyed the black civilization.
It's just that no serious historican ever assumed that until williams wrote his book in 1971, right after the African-American Civil Rights Movement and under the influence of it he generalized it to all of human history.

Like I said, this is all american-centric pc-bullshit.

Only because you had a problem with slavery and blacks were treated really poorly in america does not mean you should try to rewrite all history to cope with your own issues.

Because some black dude writing a book about how the whole world belonged to the blacks is pretty much like a white dude writing a book how the whole world belongs to white people.

 

[Measley]

Yeah, tanned probably. If you look at the forensic evidence the mummies that were reconstructed show no sub-saharan african features. And even nubian people are a stretch, since they lack many of the features of sub saharan africans as well.

If that is the case, then why are the Libyans depicted as far lighter than the Egyptians? Libya and Egypt exist in the same climate range.

As for sub-Saharan features....

Both have sub-Saharan African heritage.

Again, I couldn't care less, but the way american pseudo-lysekoistic pc science creeps into history and tries to repaint it is pretty annoying.

No less annoying than those who don't want to attribute any civilization to black people for whatever reason.

 

[Qwomo]

Yeah, evil whitey destroyed the black civilization.
It's just that no serious historican ever assumed that until williams wrote his book in 1971, right after the African-American Civil Rights Movement and under the influence of it he generalized it to all of human history.

Like I said, this is all american-centric pc-bullshit.

Only because you had a problem with slavery and blacks were treated really poorly in america does not mean you should try to rewrite all history to cope with your own issues.

You're a poor troll.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

Both have sub-Saharan African heritage.

Heritage, but they aren't sub saharan africans. That's the point - because somehow the whole world has an african heritage. It's like you purposely keep missing the point.
Because you're being the racist here with trying to say that egyptians never could've built a civilization on their own.

Here's a real sub saharan african for you:

 

[Vic]

Heritage, but they aren't sub saharan africans. That's the point - because somehow the whole world has an african heritage. It's like you purposely keep missing the point.
Because you're being the racist here with trying to say that egyptians never could've built a civilization on their own.

Here's a real sub saharan african for you:

What about the people living in the horn of Africa (which is the the Sub-Sahara region) who doesn't have these facial phenotypes?

 

[Sickboy007]

No I'm not. I'm talking about the Venetian Italians that are way before the Moors.

lolwut? care to elaborate? what time period are we talking here?

 

[cobragt4001]

Yeah, evil whitey destroyed the black civilization.
It's just that no serious historican ever assumed that until williams wrote his book in 1971, right after the African-American Civil Rights Movement and under the influence of it he generalized it to all of human history.

Like I said, this is all american-centric pc-bullshit.

Only because you had a problem with slavery and blacks were treated really poorly in america does not mean you should try to rewrite all history to cope with your own issues.

Because some black dude writing a book about how the whole world belonged to the blacks is pretty much like a white dude writing a book how the whole world belongs to white people.

Damn lol you bringing up stuff I'm not evening talking about. I'm just stating the facts that Africa was originally Afro and so was Kem, Kemet or Egypt. They were conquered and beaten simple as that and I'm not mad at that because that is what happens in history, someone is defeated and taken over.

 

[cobragt4001]

Yeah, tanned probably. If you look at the forensic evidence the mummies that were reconstructed show no sub-saharan african features. And even nubian people are a stretch, since they lack many of the features of sub saharan africans as well.Again, I couldn't care less, but the way american pseudo-lysekoistic pc science creeps into history and tries to repaint it is pretty annoying.

Point me in the direction of this info please.

 

[Measley]

Heritage, but they aren't sub saharan africans. That's the point -

Your point was that the middle kingdom and new kingdom mummies don't have noticeable SS African features, thus meaning that the people of that area couldn't have had any SS ancestry. I just showed you two examples of African/Caucasian hybrids that have minimal SS African features and that's only after 200 years of racial mixing. This also explains why the Egyptians saw themselves as distinct from the "whites" to their east and west, and the "blacks" to their south.

Here's another example;

Because you're being the racist here with trying to say that egyptians never could've built a civilization on their own.

That statement is the dumbest thing you've said in this thread so far.

Here's a real sub saharan african for you:

Now it seems that you have missed the point.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

Point me in the direction of this info please.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/05/0511_050511_kingtutface.html

 

[Vic]

Melanin is the reason and Africans contain the most melanin of any ethnic group. If you believe because a person's skin tone is determined by climate step out now.

There a lot of dark people around the world, it's just that Africa is the most well know in that category.