Kumomeme
Member
not hard to think what people actually expected at first hand
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All The Last of Us 2 leaks/spoilers in here and nowhere else.
- Thread starter DonJorginho
- Start date
- News Spoilers
Explosive Zombie
Banned
No, it kinda is. Give me an example.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Really comes down to people's acceptance of Joel dying and plot twists in gaming. By the looks of it, most don't like it and prefer traditional stories where 99% of the time the good guys win. The End.
For me, I think it's great.
Then again in gaming, I almost never care about story and just want to skip cut scenes and bad acting and just get to gameplay. I don't think I've ever been vested in characters and plots in games.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
I always expected Joel to die, heck I thought he might already be dead when the game began.
Kumomeme
Member
its vary to people
for me, like from first game and what my friends been complaining about..the first game about survival in apocalypse world with zombies birth by fungus, where the relationship like father and daughter play out
but now? no offense, but there more to those SJW agenda being agressively pushed for...this is not what some of these people expect and want to play...and these leak about how we play with unknown m2f, beat out and kill the main characters that define the first game, which is at same time synonym with the franchise, make it worse
there wide different of people out there, everyone had their own view and principle especially those audience from first game and its not something we can force to them to accept ..then of course, there will be this kind of reaction
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Explosive Zombie
Banned
The whole point of the father/daughter relationship, though was to lead you to a dilemma where you forsake the world for your surrogate daughter. This is complex morally gray type shit and I can't believe people didn't expect a sequel to deal with the fallout of Joel's actions.
Kumomeme
Member
people expect this..
but what people didnt expect the sjw agenda being pushed here..well it depend on people..some like it, some not, but i dare to say its staggering
put that aside..joel and ellie, who is that become the iconic face of the franchise from the first game, how fans suddenly feel if this people will get beat up, killed and they will end up play unknown character with controversional situation, for that scene? well if the leak end up true though....what if in next Metal Gear game, Big boss get killed and Miller get beat up by these unknown new character out of nowhere and player forced to play the character for this scene? its kind of how people complaint terminator dark fate is...
Explosive Zombie
Banned
Joel and Ellie began as unknown characters as well, did you really not expect a sequel to introduce new main characters? Also what's SJW about it? If you mean Ellie being gay that was revealed in the Left Behind DLC, what new SJW material is being pushed in this game based on the leaks? Also weird you'd choose MGS as an example, since in MGS 2 after one level as Snake you play the rest of the game as Raiden, a choice that initially polarized the fanbase but it's now regarded as possibly the best entry.
Kumomeme
Member
The Last of Us, the first game starring Joel and Ellie as main character...unknown is not suitable word to use here as they start exist in first game..different story that they never had any backstory or relevant character in first game and suddenly being made as main character in TLOU 2
about the SJW..people didnt expect it being this aggresive..thats all.
MGS is just a very simple example..dont take the context too deeply
did we player play as Raiden and we kill Big Boss? thats my point..but its just that...mgs example i use because the character is iconic..i trying to make explaination as simpler as i can...dont take the metal gear context too deep..
i just explain the first things ...dont really want to argue stuff here..it wont end
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Explosive Zombie
Banned
Big Boss is an iconic figure yes, Joel is not... Joel and Ellie are characters we learned to love not because of their larger than life status but because of how real they felt. Real characters can have these things happen to them.
Kumomeme
Member
i dont want to argue joel is iconic or not...but my point is they being known by fans as the 'face' of the game. Thats all
Explosive Zombie
Banned
It's just not a 1:1 with other games, they're the face of a franchise that's a serious drama set in an apocalyptic world with zombies, they're not Mario or Link or Samus or something.
Kumomeme
Member
no need to be 1:1 example..as long you get the idea...thats all
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Werewolf Jones
Member
Why would there be more father/daughter bonding when that little bubble has been burst and Ellie has grown up and she's still dubious about Joel's actions. Did you want a Woody Allen scenario or something? lol.
I guess the average consumer wanted The Last of Us 1.5 and didn't want anything actually moving forward.
I guess the average consumer wanted The Last of Us 1.5 and didn't want anything actually moving forward.
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Explosive Zombie
Banned
Why would there be more father/daughter bonding when that little bubble has been burst and Ellie has grown up and she's still dubious about Joel's actions. Did you want a Woody Allen scenario or something? lol.
I guess the average consumer wanted The Last of Us 1.5 and didn't want anything actually moving forward.
The way they talk they wanted a glorified expansion pack after 7 years.
Stuart360
Member
I dont really know how killing off possibly both of the main characters from the first game, is 'moving forward'. People dont like it when it happens in movie sequels, they dont like it when it was happening constantly in The Walking Dead. It would make me not want to play the first game again, if i had a playstation that is.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
Who said they killed BOTH main characters?
Stuart360
Member
Well people are saying Ellie is dead, or possibly dead.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
No, the people who have combed through the leaks more methodically are saying she survives and the game ends with a cliffhanger involving her pursuing Abby for revenge.
Werewolf Jones
Member
Only Joel dies and it's been obvious it was coming since they announced a sequel. Ellie lives to fight another day. I think normie Western pop culture has rotted people's brains. Protagonist doesn't always mean immune to death especially when they've been stripped of that privilege in the sequel.
The passage of time has moved on and the fans need to accept that. All people die eventually and Joel had it coming.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
There aren't angry christians or transgenders in it... so...
MasterDerico
Member
I remember people bashing me for my joke months ago: "Woke Of Us 2"
Sooo...There is! lmao
Sooo...There is! lmao
Strategize
Member
I feel like if that were the case, he would've leaked the cliffhanger since the leaks almost seemed almost targeted to create controversy. Naughty Dog has never done a cliffhanger.
We know Abby and Lev are looking for the fireflies, I feel like we could still see a showdown with Ellie, Abby and the Fireflies, maybe Ellie finally wipes them out, when in the last game she would've sacrificed herself. Then goes back to Dina permanently scared both mentally and psychically. I feel like that would a bittersweet enough ending to be satisfying.
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Jill Valentine
Member
I think most people saw it coming but nobody expected it to be this over the top. The baffling part is the "There is no agenda", moving to entitlement/whining or paranoia defence. There is no need for a signed confession from Druckmann. The past 10 years happened, there is tons of material from what this company representatives have said, precedents they have established since the release of the original game in particular and what is now on the plate from the leaks.
Strategize
Member
Considering the "agenda" that people are so up in arms is basically boils down to "there's gay people and a buff chick" you'll have to forgive me for not being as outraged as you are.
wordslaughter
Banned
Damn. The people defending this shit are OBSESSED!
We're talking HUNDREDS of posts ITT alone.
Why is it so difficult for you to accept...
1. TLOU2 has been completely invaded by SJW politics.
2. They don't appreciate the indignity the main characters have had done to them, simply to push said SJW dogma.
3. That people don't like SJW politics, and it's OK that people don't like that. They ruin everything the touch.
We're talking HUNDREDS of posts ITT alone.
Why is it so difficult for you to accept...
1. TLOU2 has been completely invaded by SJW politics.
2. They don't appreciate the indignity the main characters have had done to them, simply to push said SJW dogma.
3. That people don't like SJW politics, and it's OK that people don't like that. They ruin everything the touch.
Cato
Banned
I think people would be a lot more accepting to a lesbian couple as a plot element if the game contained long steaming hot lesbo sex cutscenes. Interactive cutscenes? so much the better!
Don't just tease me, give us the entire pornhub lesbian subsection.
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
We haven't played the game yet and people don't make everything political.
Just wait for people to start dropping reviews.
ZehDon
Member
I'll just add my own thoughts here, cause I think you've got a really good discussion point here.
For me personally, I expected the fallout to be between Joel and Ellie, not Joel and the non-existent offspring of a no-name NPC. TLOU was about Joel and Ellie's relationship, after all. Now, that might be a reductionist view of the game, but it's a fair interpretation that many players will have: Joel and Ellie are TLOU for a lot of players.
Based on the leaks, we don't know that Ellie ever discovers that Joel made a choice. So, it goes one of two ways for me personally: If Ellie doesn't find out, then the game drops that point of fracture between Ellie and Joel, and by doing so, my interest in the story. Instead, based on the leaks, it seems that Naughty Dog manufactured an antagonist on which to springboard off onto a narrative tangent - "revenge". On paper, and based on these pretty thin leaks, it doesn't sound terribly appealing because it's not a through-line I personally follow from the first game to the second. It doesn't track. Game of Thrones, in its hay day, showed the fallout of bad decisions from its characters by using other the impact of those choices on other, established characters. It tracks, because the story took the time to make sure we understood what was at play, to understand the weight of that choice, as bad as it was. If the fallout from a choice was to be big, then we needed major characters to experience the weight of it. However, TLOU didn't setup the doctor, or their daughter, so Joel's decision never has that kind of weight behind it. The fact that Naughty Dog are going to use half the game to attempt to retcon that weight into the story doesn't bode well for me - I think it'll feel as artificial as it sounds. The reason for this pessimism from myself here, is that they kinda already tried this with Uncharted 4, with Nate's retconned brother. It felt every bit the retcon that it was, and ultimately Uncharted 4 was my least favourite in that series. I don't expect Druckmann and co have taken writing lessons since then.
The other side is, of course, if Ellie does discover what Joel chose to do. However, the leaks already confirm Ellie goes on a quest for a revenge... which tells me that, regardless of her reaction, she ultimately makes peace with it and accepts Joel as someone worthy of revenge. This is the least interesting result of Joel's choice I could imagine.
So, for me, either I get a story that goes down a line that feels manufactured, or I get the least interesting continuation to TLOU's morally grey ending.
Do you see an organic through-line from the first game's conclusion to this one?
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Strategize
Member
Because once again, the SJW aspects of the game people are mad about essentially boil down to a ripped female character and a gay couple. So unless you're going to unironically lecture me about how the sole reason they killed off Joel is because Naughty Dog hates whites males, I'm not seeing your issue. A gay couple and a female character with muscles is not politics.
Hey there's still scenes to see, maybe it's still possible.
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wordslaughter
Banned
But WHY are you so desperate to make excuses for Druckman?
TONS of people ( I would say the majority ) are pissed off after hearing the details of this leak. They aren't pissed off simply because it's a leak. They are pissed off at hearing the direction this game has taken.
If this was JUST about spoilers, the reaction would have been so much different.
TONS of people ( I would say the majority ) are pissed off after hearing the details of this leak. They aren't pissed off simply because it's a leak. They are pissed off at hearing the direction this game has taken.
If this was JUST about spoilers, the reaction would have been so much different.
Oddvintagechap
Member
I just read the whole thing. Ignoring all the stuff that hasnt been proven true without a cutscene.
THIS is what people are crying about? All this bitching wouldnt happen if Abby was a male or if xbox trolls didnt exist. Like seriously how was joel expected to die? People crying that his death was disrespectful are a joke. Better YET there is ZERO proof that he’a dead. Its all implied. Zero proof that Abby is a trans character. Oh boy, I love Naughty Dog. Making the social injustice warriors spew nonsense because of their insecurities. Im a person that’s indifferent about non-straight characters. Game is going to be lit. But yes burn naughty dog to the ground if they dont have a specific version for PS5.
THIS is what people are crying about? All this bitching wouldnt happen if Abby was a male or if xbox trolls didnt exist. Like seriously how was joel expected to die? People crying that his death was disrespectful are a joke. Better YET there is ZERO proof that he’a dead. Its all implied. Zero proof that Abby is a trans character. Oh boy, I love Naughty Dog. Making the social injustice warriors spew nonsense because of their insecurities. Im a person that’s indifferent about non-straight characters. Game is going to be lit. But yes burn naughty dog to the ground if they dont have a specific version for PS5.
Strategize
Member
What do you mean why? Because I'm not upset with him and have no reason to be as of right now, we'll see if that changes.
Werewolf Jones
Member
People are spreading misinformation implying Abby is trans to fuel the anti-woke sentiments. Proof Abby is transgender please. Yeah she's an unrealistic Xbox huge woman but I'll wait.
Jon Neu
Banned
The funny thing is that everybody expected Joel to die or be dead already.
And the last scene of the game is basically plot armor because reasons, the ending.
People with similar ideologies have sympathy for each other.
Especially when people critizice someone for that ideology, then they retort to damage control mode.
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Explosive Zombie
Banned
What? Game of Thrones (especially the books) CONSTANTLY introduced new characters who had an agenda or even wanted revenge against pre-established characters! The Red Wedding is a mass revenge against main characters by characters we barely knew or cared about, for instance. Except people totally expected recompense from the Fireflies in some form, Joel himself said he was killing Marlene because she'd keep looking for Ellie, that any of the Fireflies he murdered could have a child is not a notion beyond believing, it certainly isn't some sort of retcon, it's broadening the story to show the reverberations Joel's actions have had throughout the world of TLOU. Abby might be a nothing char in TLOU, she doesn't exist but in II you seriously expect them to not at all establish her or make you empathize with her prior to her being the one to kill one of the leads? Right, they haven't taken writing lessons since Uncharted 4 because your view it was the least of the series is not COMMONLY SHARED.
First of all, 1. we have a leak with Ellie confronting Joel about what really happened with the Fireflies. 2. Whatever Ellie would think of what Joel did the idea that she wouldn't avenge his murder is ludicrous.
How is it not organic? It's so organic it's the kind of thing people have riffed on the Uncharted games for, the idea that most people Drake kills are contracted and not pure evil and possibly have families that might want vengeance has been floated before by fans who find a ludonarrative dissonance in the amount of people you murder, but Uncharted wouldn't be the sort of game to exact a heavy toll on its protag for their actions... TLOU is.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
People are just jumping on the bandwagon. I asked proof that she's a trans woman and all I keep hearing is, "Just look at her. She's built like a man."
Now people are bringing up Neil's comments about Anita as proof that she helped make The Last of Us Part II.
At this point, I'm just really anticipating the reviews coming out from journalist and YouTubers. I bet the well majority of the reviews is going to be very positive.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
It's weird people are so up in arms about Abby being buff, would you rather Joel was taken down by a thin waif of a woman?
Jon Neu
Banned
Explosive Zombie
Banned
The Freys did it, the Lannisters might involvement in it is minimal. Don't pretend the Freys were well established or well known to the reader prior to what they did.
Strategize
Member
I mean it wouldn't really matter if he's tied up and heavily outnumbered. An 8 year old could've finished him off.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Lets just see how well this game reviews once the embargo is lifted.
YouTubers are going to get their review copies and video game websites like IGN and IGN are going to get theirs too. This is still a highly anticipated game and people are going to buy the game early and give their impressions.
If the well majority of the reviews are positive, then you're going to start seeing people changing their opinions. This is because people actually played the game.
Stuart360
Member
I dont really get what difference reviews make. For a start, reviewers will love all the SJW shit, and for second, when was the last time a mega hyped, mega expensive game got bad reviews?. It will get great reviews regardless.
No bruh, if someone has to Kill Joel it has to be a man. What kind of SJW feminist bulshit is this, that a WOMAN kills Joel? How is this in any kind realistic?
Am i doing it right?
I bet those people also didn't like Game Of Thrones because of the "woke" parts lol I mean i'm pretty sure Brienne is more buffed than Abby
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Paracelsus
Member
It can be a woman with a gun, or from behind in an ambush with a lead pipe to the back of the head.
1 vs 1 with a golf club against Joel, maybe one chance in hell if she gets a perfect swing to the head.
This is a repeat of
And people defending her were wrong then as they are now.
Fuck off, so a woman can't one on one a man?
Again, where you in full anger when Brienne won against the Hound?
What is this bullshit?
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
There are people who are dead set on not buying the Last of Us after reading the leaks. A lot of these people think it's going to fail. People who did not see the leaks thinks it's going to score low based on people's reaction regarding the leaks.
A 90+ on metacritic could change people's opinion.
There are also YouTubers who are going to review the game after reading the leaks. Dreamcastguy is not happy about the leaks, but I'm sure many of his fans are going to change their opinion if he loves the game.
Tyrone Magnus is a popular YouTuber and said he will not be buying the Last of Us after reading the leaks, but he will give it a try if someone that he trust read the leaks but now enjoys the game. One of the people that he watched in regards to these leaks is Dreamcast guy.
So if the majority of these people start giving positive reviews, then it's going to change people's minds about playing the game.
llien
Member
"In a category that downplays strength... such as laughable crap like aikido... women are not that bad", ok.
And your point was?
Stuart360
Member
Why do you care about people having their minds change?, or if they play the game?. Also Youtubers, really?. They are paid off all the time for reviews.