Movalpolos
Banned
Don't worry guys. I'm sure whatever NX is will truly be the paradigm shift in gaming and people will know the glory of Nintendo once more while the rest will be ashamed of their "pro-VR" words and deeds.
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All VR is Dead on Arrival
- Thread starter evilr
- Start date
Betta Lines
Member
VR is not a peripheral. It is a concept, and a new medium. I can see why the launch hardware could be seen as a peripheral, but that is the only way it can be done at this stage.
It will take the form of a standalone device with a multitude of uses.
And I don't think it needs a killer app. The killer app is presence. When it clicks, content will come naturally.
It was not build to solve any problems, but it can.
You want a simple problem solved? Let's not build any model houses, just create a 3D model and explore it with VR. It costs A LOT less.
There are some other things it could do.
VR needs to be demonstrated to people who doesn't understand what can it do, because it affects your perception and sight in a way "never" done.
You can't imagine a color that wasn't invented, you can't really imagine a 2D world without Z axis(try to imagine how would be sight in 2D world). That's why for some, who doesn't understand, need to be demonstrated.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I guess if you think PS4 is expensive, VR is definitely not for you, and probably contemporary gaming as a hobby isn't either.
TheExecutive
Member
For it to work? Maybe... I don't know. For it to be any good? I am positive it takes MUCH more work than you suggest.
Nealand Liquor
Member
I have zero faith in Sony's ability or desire in continued support of software for the PSVR if they don't see millions of adopters right out of the gate. I have been burned by Sony's abandonment of adopters enough to be wary of buying any product outside of the flagship device (Ps3/4).
As much as I want VR (my pc is old as mold), I will take a skeptical wait and see approach and hope Sony proves me wrong.
As much as I want VR (my pc is old as mold), I will take a skeptical wait and see approach and hope Sony proves me wrong.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
How muxh has the GearVR sold?
small44
Member
Virtual reality compagnies don't have big expectations in short term so they will sell their headset firstly toharcore gamers who don't care about how much they spend to have the best gaming experience.When it's price will go down more and more people will buy VR headset.
So i don't think they are dead on arrival.
So i don't think they are dead on arrival.
RealityPales
Member
The current form factor, price and marketing strategies ensure these VR devices won't perform all that hot.
But down the line, VR will have a significant presence - just not in the packages it's in now.
But down the line, VR will have a significant presence - just not in the packages it's in now.
small44
Member
Consoles didn't solve any problems yet they sell well and they are not niche
Movalpolos
Banned
Sold out past June now. Not sure how supply-constrained they are though.
Primethius
Banned
I think it's extremely premature to write off new tech based on early adoption pricing. Will it sell in mass numbers early on? Probably not.
Dead on arrival? That remains to be seen.
Dead on arrival? That remains to be seen.
Yea and probably the majority of the use will be outside of gaming applications. Gaming is just the market that makes the most sense initially.
There are also a bunch of other players entering the market that will target the low to mid range VR. That is why Oculus sort of changed it's vision to target the higher end VR experience.
Razzorn34
Member
Oh believe me, I understand. I realize VR will get picked up for several applications other than gaming/media. But, considering we are on a gaming/media site, I'm just addressing that side of things.
That was already built into the OP. There may be must-have experiences showing up after 10 years, but it's still DOA because it took too long (?).
EventHorizon
Member
NMS is rumored to have frame rate issues on the PS4 even without VR, so I'd say it is unlikely that we'll get a fully playable VR game based on that alone. However what I think is possible is that we'll get a VR photo mode to No Man's Sky. It'd let you take a VR snapshot of any location you visit on a planet while playing the game. In VR you'd see thumbnails of the locations that you took a VR photo of. When you select a thumbnail you'll be transported to that location in VR.
This would get around the motion sickness problem because you couldn't move. I also think this will get around the frame rate issue by allowing the game to fully precompute your surroundings. I believe the frame rate issue is due to the need to continually calculate the terrain on the CPU as you move in the game. By being stationary this only needs to be done once per each scene before you enter.
Moon_frogger
Member
wait...are you saying you can play the oculus rift without a controller? this is news to me! also the onus here is on you to point to a compelling piece of software that takes exclusive advantage of VR tech. Wii had quite a few. Kinect had dance central, which by the way, is absolutely amazing. the rift has absolutely nothing outside of tech demos and grafted on support can't be done as well or better with a tv and a controller. so again....where's your counter argument other than 'i prefer it' or 'wait and see'
Gormenghast
Member
It's quite ridiculous comparing VR to 3d accelerators like 3dfx. Newsflash: videocards existed back then. You needed one to show something on screen.
3dfx was ANOTHER card, that you connected with your already existing video card, working as an accelerator. It was more similar to SLI than anything else. It was something added on top, very expensive, and it largely FAILED since it was successful only when it was integrated with the basic video card.
Same as physics accelerators. Were they successful? Nope. They were developed as new cards to plug in, and in the end they become bundled on the video card and are largely irrelevant. Yet people expected them to be another expensive piece of hardware that people would buy.
It's hard to see what VR will become, but there's a very high probability it's a gimmick. People LOVE it as long it's new. Then you find out the gimmick is not worth the added development cost. It won't vanish, but it can likely become a genre of games that simply coexist with everything else.
Same as 3D movies whose appeal is quickly receding. Same as "3D gloves" 30 years ago. There's still a possibility it will actually materialize as more. But surely it won't happen with the Oculus Rift. That's just a neat trick to part people with their money.
You are just being susceptible to advertisement.
3dfx was ANOTHER card, that you connected with your already existing video card, working as an accelerator. It was more similar to SLI than anything else. It was something added on top, very expensive, and it largely FAILED since it was successful only when it was integrated with the basic video card.
Same as physics accelerators. Were they successful? Nope. They were developed as new cards to plug in, and in the end they become bundled on the video card and are largely irrelevant. Yet people expected them to be another expensive piece of hardware that people would buy.
It's hard to see what VR will become, but there's a very high probability it's a gimmick. People LOVE it as long it's new. Then you find out the gimmick is not worth the added development cost. It won't vanish, but it can likely become a genre of games that simply coexist with everything else.
Same as 3D movies whose appeal is quickly receding. Same as "3D gloves" 30 years ago. There's still a possibility it will actually materialize as more. But surely it won't happen with the Oculus Rift. That's just a neat trick to part people with their money.
You are just being susceptible to advertisement.
Omnistalgic
Member
First of all, Sony would likely be happy with those numbers, and VR is not a gimmick, which means people will be interesting in reiterating on the formula, we don't know how big the maket will get.
Just like FTP, mobile, moba, open world, mine craft, VR will just be another slice of gaming, it's not a gimmick guys., and has use outside of gaming. Wii wasn't either, it was just an incomplete experience. VR fulfills what Wii started of putting played into the game worlds, I'd say there's a market for that.
World of Warcraft, FF14 are isolated experiences where you are social only in the created world, everything doesn't have to be shared in person. You ppl don't zone out to high quality headphones sometimes?
TheExecutive
Member
The bolded is straight up bullshit marketing which you clearly understand further down in your post.
Does it have potential? Sure, but as of right now it is an expensive gadget that requires other hardware to exist. It is the definition of a peripheral device.
Listen folks- I am not going to talk about its infinite possibilities in the future because I don't know what they are and I don't have a clue how the technology will progress to make it more practical. However, someone is trying to sell me something right now and the cost of admission will be anywhere from $800 to $2,000.
VR's practical uses right now are slim AND it's expensive- a combination that can ONLY create a niche market. Since the hardware is new, it's a peripheral device, and it's expensive it has an uphill battle to climb and win. Developers have NEVER- not once- supported beyond a year or two a peripheral device that is expensive and completely unnecessary to build a game.
Could this be the device to break the mold? Sure. However, people in here completely ignore past precedence and are acting like its something it's not. VR has much more of a hill to climb than folks in here would lead you to believe.
i don't see myself getting into it even if the price was $200. i don't want to wear a big clunky goggle setup that completely cuts me off from the world to play games.
an aside: i wonder how many people posting in this thread will get walked in on by their spouse/mother while they're jerking to some VR porn
an aside: i wonder how many people posting in this thread will get walked in on by their spouse/mother while they're jerking to some VR porn
the long arc of VR isn't even about videogames, it's about developing new spatial computing paradigms. gaming enthusiasts are being used to propel the first wave of tech but the promise of VR (and the ambition of the people developing itwhy do you think facebook acquired oculus?) doesn't have much to do with Immersive Shooter Experiences or whatever. peeps will claim hyperbole on this right now but VR is quickly evolving into an incredibly powerful, disruptive information technology. watching people make smartphone comparisons (VR won't be as successful because you can check your email on phones!) is really telling. smartphones are amazing and they're not going anywhere, but they ain't got shit on VR tbqh.
this thread is going to be an incredible document (one way or the other) in 5-10 years. bookmarked for forever.
this thread is going to be an incredible document (one way or the other) in 5-10 years. bookmarked for forever.
Weltall Zero
Member
Things that were deemed a fad back then: cinema, sound movies, color movies, rock, videogames, the internet, smartphones, HDTVs.
Things that were considered timeless and/or the future back then: anaglyph 3D movies, disco music, platform shoes, music tapes, tamagotchis, myspace, segways, motion controls, and a ton of others that didn't even have the distintion to be remembered as punchlines.
Unreasonably strong confidence on the success or failure of something new before the dust has settled is the most time-honored recipe for crow.
So smartphones were "successful" because they were "indispensable". Let me introduce you to a fascinating new concept...
Things that were considered timeless and/or the future back then: anaglyph 3D movies, disco music, platform shoes, music tapes, tamagotchis, myspace, segways, motion controls, and a ton of others that didn't even have the distintion to be remembered as punchlines.
Unreasonably strong confidence on the success or failure of something new before the dust has settled is the most time-honored recipe for crow.
So smartphones were "successful" because they were "indispensable". Let me introduce you to a fascinating new concept...
It's too expensive to be anything other than a hardcore enthusiast product for years to come. The masses are not going to fork over this kind of change for hardware on top of required hardware until it can be had for much cheaper. Not to mention the other drawbacks like having to wear that ridiculous box on your face and be cut off from reality. These are real problems, no matter how 'great' the experience might be. I'll just sit back and watch the obvious play out.
yongeandcollege
Member
Small niche at best. I'm looking forward to trying VR but long term I don't see myself sitting in my living room along with my wife with a helmet on while she reads or whatever. What if she wants to ask me a question? At least with regular gaming she can easily get my attention.
Maybe younger people will be more into it but I think the 30 to 50 demographic, which can mostly afford these expensive toys, may be a tougher nut to crack.
Maybe younger people will be more into it but I think the 30 to 50 demographic, which can mostly afford these expensive toys, may be a tougher nut to crack.
nadnerb 64
Neo Member
the price being so high is a response to due cost of building the unit. While i agree that this price is outrageously high, the parts will become cheaper, it will be more mainstream and cost will go down in time. it will be early adopters and VR enthusiasts that will pay this much off the bat but in time, once cost is more consumer friendly, it will sell better. it needs to be supported though
Omnistalgic
Member
A lot of people would want a more immersive experience tho, at least you identified yourself as not personally interested in it instead of predicting it will flop with weak arguments. I personally feel pretty isolated when I have a pair of cans on. I'm still there visually seeing what's going on, but can't it be said that I'm also not "aware" of my surroundings. I'm not sure VR will be as weird as some are claiming.
Gormenghast
Member
Another aspect to consider is that VR isn't anything new. It existed for I don't know how long in flight simulators. It's very old technology.
What's new, right now, and what the Oculus Rift amounts to is purely marketing.
What's REALLY new is people becoming way more susceptible to this form of marketing. It's something that says more about people than it says about technology. There's nothing new in technology, but there's a lot new with internet people, peer pressure, and how the marketing goads trends.
What's new, right now, and what the Oculus Rift amounts to is purely marketing.
What's REALLY new is people becoming way more susceptible to this form of marketing. It's something that says more about people than it says about technology. There's nothing new in technology, but there's a lot new with internet people, peer pressure, and how the marketing goads trends.
Worst thread on the gaming side of GAF, lol.
Also, we know VR are expensive, but I find it silly that people think that price is the reason it's DOA when the same people who are buying this are the ones who have PCs that cost over $2K and can spend up to a thousand or more on SLI GPU's.
This is a high-end VR system that is priced this way for the early adopters. Price will decrease in the future as a mainstream option becomes more viable.
They are also including an Xbox One controller and 2 games..
Also, we know VR are expensive, but I find it silly that people think that price is the reason it's DOA when the same people who are buying this are the ones who have PCs that cost over $2K and can spend up to a thousand or more on SLI GPU's.
This is a high-end VR system that is priced this way for the early adopters. Price will decrease in the future as a mainstream option becomes more viable.
They are also including an Xbox One controller and 2 games..
Betta Lines
Member
In what way is that bullshit marketing? If VR is not treated as a new medium, then it will never make any progress.
Maintenance
Member
So strange, it is like people want VR to fail.
Is $599 really outrageously high for the tech you are getting? It may be expensive, but I don't think it's outrageous. Many people were expecting a $400-500 dollar range and it came in at $100 more (not including: shipping fees and taxes).
TheExecutive
Member
The only things that were completely new in the bolded were video games and the Internet. All other products listed were iterations or improvements on existing technology. You are not comparing apples to apples and are indeed in danger of a false equivication argument.
However, you are right about the crow bit. Time will tell!
an aside: i wonder how many people posting in this thread will get walked in on by their spouse/mother while they're jerking to some VR porn
Which, to be honest, is no different from playing a conventional shooter for the first time. Put a controller into the hands of someone who has never held one before, and let them play Call of Duty. Or let someone who has never used a touch device before play around on an iPhone. Enjoy
Somebody taking some time to adapt to new technology is perfectly normal, and has nothing to do with VR specifically.
Betta Lines
Member
So the years of hardware and software R&D was all a terrific ruse? What you're saying is utterly ridiculous.
NeuAscension
Banned
$400 seems completely reasonable to me.
And only the 5 richest kings in Europe will own one.
:smug:
:smug:
Is the quality an average consumer can get for just $599. This massive leap forward in such a short period of time is rare.
I am super skeptical that VR can cross the niche barrier this gen or anytime soon.
Mobile, kinect, Wii, these all lowered the barrier of mental entry, made technology easier to use, more social, more open.
VR does only the opposite, and MINIMUM I think we can assume $800 for PSVR entry from nothing, and PCVR will be $1500 absolute minimum. These prices will drop, but Wii cost what, $250?
Beyond that, people NEED mobile in their lives. Nothing in VR will actually equal the importance of staying connected to your workplace and social lives. They can't get away with even charging ~$1000 (smartphone + yearly rate).
All VR is not DOA, but can we expect even AAA game support on the reg? Kinda think not. I'm hoping even more moderate indie support on PC...
Mobile, kinect, Wii, these all lowered the barrier of mental entry, made technology easier to use, more social, more open.
VR does only the opposite, and MINIMUM I think we can assume $800 for PSVR entry from nothing, and PCVR will be $1500 absolute minimum. These prices will drop, but Wii cost what, $250?
Beyond that, people NEED mobile in their lives. Nothing in VR will actually equal the importance of staying connected to your workplace and social lives. They can't get away with even charging ~$1000 (smartphone + yearly rate).
All VR is not DOA, but can we expect even AAA game support on the reg? Kinda think not. I'm hoping even more moderate indie support on PC...
Gormenghast
Member
Because it's not a new medium.
It's merely a shift from controlling movement with your head, and have a monitor close to your eyes to trick it being more "immersive". Are 3D glasses for movies a NEW MEDIUM? Nope. This is the same.
And the moment it's not a novelty, the moment your brain is used to the task, it's the moment when you realize it's not viscerally cool as it was.
It's literally an expensive headset. You are wearing your monitor on your head. It's mostly INCONVENIENT. So it can only be successful when its convenience is brought down to a DESIRABLE level.
Make VR really light, portable and so on. And maybe in the future it also becomes a standard. For now it's just a gimmick, and one that existed for MANY years. It just got less of a marketing push.
The Oculus Rift is literally: an old idea + lots of marketing.
prag16
Banned
I don't like either extreme here.
It won't be DOA, but it won't be an overnight breakout sensation for various reasons.
It'll be a niche/enthusiast type of thing for at least a while. I don't ever see it being THE standard way of playing games (at least not in the remotely forseeable future) but to say it won't carve out a significant role over the next decade is silly.
It won't be DOA, but it won't be an overnight breakout sensation for various reasons.
It'll be a niche/enthusiast type of thing for at least a while. I don't ever see it being THE standard way of playing games (at least not in the remotely forseeable future) but to say it won't carve out a significant role over the next decade is silly.
Camp1nCarl
Member
Lots of ridiculous mud-slinging on both sides of the coin here, and lots of opinions being written off. I think it's ridiculous to say that VR is going to be Dead on Arrival, especially when the enthusiast market IS there. Conversely though, VR is probably not going to take off like many think, at least for a very long time.
I have tried VR before, and I plan on purchasing a first gen consumer VR device. However, saying that VR is going to permeate into the market and become widely adopted anytime soon is simply ridiculous. It's incredibly hard medium to get into, and the only way to really generate most consumer interest in it is to let people try it first hand. Currently and for the next few years, it's going to be incredibly expensive, and lack a plethora of software. For the most part, it isn't simply plug and play either. PC VR requires SERIOUS performance that few have or have interest in pursuing, however PS VR will at least be a bit more accessible.
If you talk to a lot of casual gamers currently, they could give a rats ass about VR. Incredibly high price points and a lack of software also inspire little confidence for most to jump into it. Many that have tried VR too say, "Wow this is pretty cool," but ultimately see it as a limited gimmick currently with the software available. I just don't see VR hitting mainstream success for MANY years down the line, if it ever manages to inspire confidence to further invest into the industry like many think will happen quickly.
Only time will tell, but currently and for the next good chunk of years I don't see VR really making a huge impact on the market or becoming widely adopted.
I have tried VR before, and I plan on purchasing a first gen consumer VR device. However, saying that VR is going to permeate into the market and become widely adopted anytime soon is simply ridiculous. It's incredibly hard medium to get into, and the only way to really generate most consumer interest in it is to let people try it first hand. Currently and for the next few years, it's going to be incredibly expensive, and lack a plethora of software. For the most part, it isn't simply plug and play either. PC VR requires SERIOUS performance that few have or have interest in pursuing, however PS VR will at least be a bit more accessible.
If you talk to a lot of casual gamers currently, they could give a rats ass about VR. Incredibly high price points and a lack of software also inspire little confidence for most to jump into it. Many that have tried VR too say, "Wow this is pretty cool," but ultimately see it as a limited gimmick currently with the software available. I just don't see VR hitting mainstream success for MANY years down the line, if it ever manages to inspire confidence to further invest into the industry like many think will happen quickly.
Only time will tell, but currently and for the next good chunk of years I don't see VR really making a huge impact on the market or becoming widely adopted.
I've never been so happy to not be a crow.
It's going to be an extinct species when the thread is done one way or another.
Then we'll have people who can't even remember what they look like and they'll do experiment and we'll end up with stuffs like this.
Blodborne was a documentary and a warning!
It's going to be an extinct species when the thread is done one way or another.
Then we'll have people who can't even remember what they look like and they'll do experiment and we'll end up with stuffs like this.
Blodborne was a documentary and a warning!
TheExecutive
Member
It's marketing because it's not a new medium- for now. How is it possibly a new medium when it requires other hardware to exist? A new medium, in my definition, must be a standalone product. Which is part of my argument why it won't succeed straight out of the gate.
I am sold on the concept of VR. It sounds awesome- but the hardware being presented does not fulfill that concept for me and I don't see these first iterations taking off like some in here would have folks believe.
I have serious issues with these statements. Are you a time traveler from the 80s?
Moon_frogger
Member
is the gaming industry really going to throw money at this for 3 years? I mean, it's undeniable that VR is going to have practical applications for all sorts of things besides gaming but were still waiting on that killer gaming app. the only rebuttal seems to be 'just wait! it's coming, we swear!' or the hilarious 'vr doesn't need a killer app, silly!'
I must be missing something here.