Am I Missing Something? Shouldn't the Mafia I Remaster Make Us Optimistic About the Upcoming GTA Trilogy Remasters?

Rocco Schiavone

I am terrified of Microsoft and am always concerned about them.
Mafia was a remake, isn't. GTA Trilogy is also releasing on mobil phones, which is a huge red flag.
Not trying to defend Rockstar but this logic makes no sense.

Fortnite for example is also available for smartphones.

Doesn't automatically mean that the home console version look as bad as their smartphone counter parts.
 

SSfox

Member
You never know with gtaonlinestar, they are capable of the worst or best, and they didn't show the games so until then it's gonna be just pure speculation.
 
With the GTA remasters it;s also launching on Switch this year and moving onto Mobile next year, I think that alone should make people have an understanding of exactly what to expect from these remasters. They're not going to be putting in the sort of work that would be required for it to match to what happened with Mafia.
To be honest though, I'm not sure Rockstar really needs to put that much work into the remasters as they know they'll sell anyway.
I'd love to be surprised by them though, I get the feeling that if I was that they wouldn't release them as a collection and each game would likely be full price.
 

Fare thee well

Neophyte
I can't wait to play every game I've ever played before, remastered, until I die. The Mafia 1 9th gen rebooted remaster when I'm 80yrs old is the one I'm waiting for.
 

rofif

Member
Mafia remake was terrible.
Terrible music, shooting and they made tommy into a shit face who sounds like a gangster totally unlike original.
Nice graphics and driving though
 

xrnzaaas

Member
Mafia was a remake and we're talking about the same Rockstar that didn't want to release any singleplayer expansions for GTA 5 and RDR 2 (despite the fans asking for them) and just continued milking online modules. Of course people are going to be pesimistic about the (lack of) changes in the remastered trilogy.
 

Star-Lord

Member
Come on. We all clearly know the difference between remake and remaster. I'm just trying to drum up some optimism for the Trilogy because I have such fond memories of the three games.

I am completely aware of the fact that this could be a minimalist upgrade of the three games, with soundtracks that are a shell of the originals due to licensing nightmares, on a bare bones platform that is designed to work on low-end smartphones as well as the PS5.
Well, if that’s the case, how can anyone be optimistic about it? I have fond memories of Vice City and San Andreas myself, but I’m fully aware that Rockstar will simply spruce up the resolution and frame rate and call it a day. We may get some lens flare if we’re lucky. But a full remake on par with Mafia? No chance.
 

8BiTw0LF

Consoomer
So, according to the Trilogy announcement, these are definitely remasters, correct?
No, they're done in a completely different engine, so per se they're remakes.
Lol not necessarily. Assets can be ported over from old engine and made to work within UE4.
When assets have to be ported, it's a remake. "Porting" assets are usually done through Quixel Megascans. BluePoint used Quixel Megascans a lot for the Shadow of Colossus remake.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Fortnite runs pretty well on mobile and even better on new-gen - best on PC.. Unreal Engine 4 is a marvelous machine, right?
Those games are not on ue4 and fortnite on pc looks acceptable at best, so...ok??!
 
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Haggard

Banned
A remaster is done within the same engine - assets are upscaled, framerate optimized and so on. Examples of remasters done in the same engine as the originals: Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Crysis Remastered Trilogy, Ninja Gaiden: Master Collection.

A remake is done by changing to a newer engine (not backwards compatible with older engine), so any assets have to be made through scans or from (newer) engine assets,
An asset port/swap is not a remake. That is just not how this works.

What you're describing is at the upper end of remasters, but it's s still a remaster nonetheless. See Diablo 2 resurrected for a recent example.

As long as it's running on legacy code it's "just" a remaster with all the limitations that come with it.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
But they are.. My phone runs Fortnite in 1080p/90hz/ultrawide. New-gen is 4K/60hz or 1440p/120hz. PC is 4K/360hz.
They are remakimg the 3 games on ue4?! I have hard times believing that.

And like i said, fortnite is far from a graphic powerhouse, it looks decent for what it does but it's not exactly a great example of graphic scaling since even the best version on pc looks decent at best.

Try to run mafia remake on mobile without great fidelity loss and see how it goes.
 
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8BiTw0LF

Consoomer
As long as it's running on legacy code it's just a remaster with all the limitations that come with it.
It can't run on legacy code, when it's a new engine. You need to read up on how engines work.
They are remakimg the 3 games on ue4?! I have hard times believing that.
Better believe it. Did you think they would remaster the trilogy in an old ass RenderWare engine and charge $70 for it?
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
It can't run on legacy code, when it's a new engine. You need to read up on how engines work.

Better believe it. Did you think they would remaster the trilogy in an old ass RenderWare engine and charge $70 for it?


You never heard of nintendo remasters uh?!

It's rockstar and it's gta, they can get away with everything my dude.
 
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cormack12

Gold Member
Interestingly enough the minimum Android version for GTA:SA is 7+ which means iirc some phones from 2014 by HTC, Sony etc. were supported. Honestly, the only way these games should be playable on mobile devices is via remote play. Yeah, they can upgrade/enhance the mobile version but how far are they going to be pushing minimum spec? Android 10 as a minimum? You're probably still talking 2015 hardware support on some outlying devices there.

This is nines and aks comparison

Android


360/PS3
 
No, they're done in a completely different engine, so per se they're remakes.

When assets have to be ported, it's a remake. "Porting" assets are usually done through Quixel Megascans. BluePoint used Quixel Megascans a lot for the Shadow of Colossus remake.
I disagree but since there is no definition of what makes a remaster Vs remake, it is unimportant. What does matter is, porting could mean assets and textures could end up looking almost the same as the original. Since they are not showing even a glimpse of the game yet, I'll wait till they actually release something.
 

8BiTw0LF

Consoomer


You never heard of nintendo remasters uh?!

It's rockstar and it's gta, they can get away with everything my dude.
I hear ya! I never think Nintendo has done a remake, besides the 3D versions of the all-star Mario games?

The problem here is that people think "remake" is some kind of quality seal, when it's simply just changing to another engine. To make a resemblance in the PC spectre: Windows app X has to be converted to work in Mac OS - therefore it's a "remake" - the app is not better or worse - now it just works in a new "engine".
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
I hear ya! I never think Nintendo has done a remake, besides the 3D versions of the all-star Mario games?

The problem here is that people think "remake" is some kind of quality seal, when it's simply just changing to another engine. To make a resemblance in the PC spectre: Windows app X has to be converted to work in Mac OS - therefore it's a "remake" - the app is not better or worse - now it just works in a new "engine".
Changing engine is a lot of work, i bet on some low effort stuff.
 

8BiTw0LF

Consoomer
Changing engine is a lot of work, i bet on some low effort stuff.
It really is a lot of work and that's where the "quality seal" comes into picture, cause no developer in their right mind would take the time to do it, just to upscale assets and buff framerate - see Mass Effect Legendary Edition.
 

8BiTw0LF

Consoomer
I disagree but since there is no definition of what makes a remaster Vs remake, it is unimportant.
But there is.. Remasters have been done in the music industry for decades - take a piece of already made music and remaster it - resulting in a remastered version of the music.
Do a cover of a song makes it a remake of that song.

It's really not that hard to differentiate remasters from remakes.
 
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^haha you can call it whatever you want . Like I said, that's ultimately unimportant. I'm just saying porting to UE4 doesn't exactly inspire confidence. It's possible it could look as impressive as the Mafia remake, or it could look like the originals, just with shiny materials and some better reflections here and there. I believe it's the latter, but let's see when footage surfaces.
 

8BiTw0LF

Consoomer
^haha you can call it whatever you want . Like I said, that's ultimately unimportant. I'm just saying porting to UE4 doesn't exactly inspire confidence. It's possible it could look as impressive as the Mafia remake, or it could look like the originals, just with shiny materials and some better reflections here and there. I believe it's the latter, but let's see when footage surfaces.
I also think the latter (in 4K/60hz + some), but that doesn't change that it's a remake.
 

Haggard

Banned
It can't run on legacy code, when it's a new engine. You need to read up on how engines work.
It`s you who has to educate himself here.......the engine is not "the game" and an engine swap is not a remake...
Perfect example every remaster ever with the legacy-graphics-switch feature.

but that doesn't change that it's a remake.
never was, never will be as long as the actual game code is not remade.
 
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8BiTw0LF

Consoomer
Sorry to disappoint you, but it`s you who has to educate himself here.......the engine is not "the game" and an engine swap is not a remake...
Perfect example every remaster ever with the legacy-graphics-switch feature.
The game is the application. The engine is the operating system. Converting games for other engines = remakes.

Bryan Cranston Mic Drop GIF
 

Haggard

Banned
The game is the application. The engine is the operating system. Converting games for other engines = remakes.
there are definitions and those don´t change. No matter how much you try to bolster your nonsensical claims with gifs they`re still nonsense in the end.
Please go out there and tell people like Rod Fergusson that their product can`t be a remaster because it uses a new engine.
And that definition is true because you say so, and underlined it with a meme............:messenger_sleeping:
 
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Laptop1991

Member
I'm not so sure, they still haven't got the trams and trains working in the Mafia remake i read, that wouldn't be accepted in GTA, hardly immersive, i thought they were going to patch it, i'm not sure Mafia is a good example to go by, if Rockstar doesn't put the effort in then they won't sell that well imo, i hope they do, i'd love to replay them if they are done well.
 

tassletine

Member
Apart form the fact it's a different company, Hanger 13 have far more to gain from that polish on the remake.
Rockstar in contrast could shit out a turd and it'd still get gold plated.
 
A remaster is done within the same engine - assets are upscaled, framerate optimized and so on. Examples of remasters done in the same engine as the originals: Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Crysis Remastered Trilogy, Ninja Gaiden: Master Collection.

A remake is done by changing to a newer engine (not backwards compatible with older engine), so any assets have to be made through scans or from (newer) engine assets, either made from the ground up or from community-based assets. Examples of remakes: Demon's Souls (2020), Mafia: Definitive Edition, Final Fantasy VII Remake.

Canadian Comedy GIF by CBC
Remake doesn’t necessarily mean moving engine. Where are you pulling these definitions from?

Mafia Remake was a remake because they literally created new assets and redesigned artwork, cutscenes were also completely remade.

A remake is quite literally something being remade. Starting from scratch I.e FFVII Remake. Where the whole game is recreated.

A remaster is where the development team use all or most of the same assets from the original game and modernise it to work better on newer platforms (ie. Change controls, add modern resolutions, add in modern AA techniques and optimise for updated systems).

Think about record remasters, just because something was digitally remastered and moved from tape to CD doesn’t make it a remake. Or movies, when a company remaster a movie for 4K, that doesn’t make it a remake.

If I’m being generous, I’d say that Rockstar will simply port the game onto the new engine and optimise it to run at higher resolutions and framerates without mods, increase the resolution of geometry and textures, maybe change the lighting slightly and increase audio quality.

The engine change will literally be to make the porting process easier for them. I cannot see this being a full remake like Mafia. If they were then there would have been a massive marketing campaign for it and it would have been shown off already.

I’ve spent far too long arguing my point here, your post literally hurts my head thinking about it.
 
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Paasei

Member
Are you optimistic bunch forgetting that this same remasters comes to mobile, as well?
That alone is reason enough to have your expectations (very) low.
 
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Anyone else think its BS that Mafia 1 Remake hasn't been updated for Ps5/Series x? It came out just two months before the launch of next gen. Pretty much all notable AAA games released in that time frame have gotten next gen updates. Crash 4 and Tony Hawk 1+2 off the top of my head. Mafia 1 Remake seriously needs 60 fps too as the games laggy to begin with.

It reminds me of Rdr2 where the animations are super slow and clunky. 60 fps is needed for those types of games to feel decent.
 

Bluecondor

Member
OP using the words remake and remaster interchangeably, that's what you are missing.
Hey now - don't blame me for using remake and remaster interchangeably. As the discussion on page 2 of this thread shows, there is still a lot of uncertainty regarding the Trilogy. Are they going to remake the games in their latest engine or are they going to update the original versions of the game on their respective game engines from back then (i.e. remaster)? We don't have a definitive answer to this yet given the limited amount of information from Rockstar.

Like I said though, I am choosing to be optimistic about the Trilogy, and I understand why the mobile port is red flag for a lot of people in regard to optimism/enthusiasm for this.
 

Osaka_Boss

Member
Dude...

  • Resident Evil 2 is a remake

  • Crash Bandicoot Trilogy is a faithful Remake (a remakemaster - a New game with full new assets that stay true to the original game)

  • Prince of Persia trilogy for the ps3/360 is a remaster... A port of the original game with bumped resolution and textures (and new glitches)


Máfia 1 is basically a "remakemaster", like Destroy All Humans, Like Asha in Monster World.

A new game, with new work, assets, maybe new content, but true to the original content.

GTA trilogy will certainly be just a remaster. If you want them to remake all the 3 games, would be just like making 'GTA 6' 3 times
 
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Osaka_Boss

Member
And just so you know... Changing engines don't make a game a remake. The end result is what defines it as remaster or remake. Lots of old-school companies are porting their shootem up and arcade games to unity, but the result on screen is the same, so they are just ports. Simply as that. A remastered port.

Atlus hired a company to bring Shin Megami Tensei 3 to new consoles, the outsourced companily ported it to Unity and brought it to higher resolutions. The end result is alike the original game for the ps2, so it is a remaster. This logic of engine doesn't apply


If rockstar bring Sandl Andreas to gta5 engine but keep the models and everything, the internal logic, being the end result similar, so it will be just a remaster. If they go out of their way to make new.models, change the city models, logic of pedestrians, and a lot more, it may be a remake/remaster in the end
 
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Bluecondor

Member
A remake is quite literally something being remade. Starting from scratch I.e FFVII Remake. Where the whole game is recreated.

A remaster is where the development team use all or most of the same assets from the original game and modernise it to work better on newer platforms (ie. Change controls, add modern resolutions, add in modern AA techniques and optimise for updated systems).

Think about record remasters, just because something was digitally remastered and moved from tape to CD doesn’t make it a remake. Or movies, when a company remaster a movie for 4K, that doesn’t make it a remake.
Your record remaster vs. remake analogy has got me thinking.

There is a lot of sentiment in this thread toward the (apparent) idea that a Trilogy remake would be, far and away, the more desirable approach, with each of the three games being completely recreated from the ground up (characters, cut scenes, music, missions, emergent gameplay etc.). Conversely, a Trilogy remaster would be undesirable in comparison, as most people on here expect that Rockstar will only make a minimal effort to modernize the original assets from the game.

While I understand this point-of-view, your record vs. remake analogy reminds me of an important limitation to this line-of-thinking. When a classic song (like Louis Prima and/or Benny Goodman's "Sing Sing Sing....With a Swing") is remade (like this remake of the song by the band Chicago from 1985), the remade version typically is lacking in comparison to the original versions:


Benny Goodman's original 1937 version just has a timeless quality to it:


Arguably the best version of the song ever made is this remastered version of a Goodman rendition that was used in the 1993 movie Swing Kids. The remastered version just pops because the 1990s producers "cleaned up" the original recording so that you hear each of the different instruments and the amazing drums. It's just an incredible version of the song that was really enhanced by the remaster:


So - long story short/tl;dr, here's hoping the Trilogy remasters are on par with the remastered 1993 version of Sing Sing Sing in relation to the (still-excellent) original versions from the 1930s. I also don't want a remake of the games that would be on par with the 1985 Chicago remake of Sing Sing Sing.

Sticking with optimism, maybe we are actually better off with remasters than remakes! :)
 
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