• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Amazon no longer selling Versus XIII?

T

Takuya

Banned
Kagari said:
They never announced Versus XIII for the west.
Most people outside of hardcore message boards don't even know what it is.
The audience at large will be more interested in seeing a '15' instead of more XIII - a game that divided the fanbase more than ever.
Click to expand...

This is true.
 
P

Persona86

Banned
Verendus said:
I should probably wait until after E3 before saying more, but what the hell, I'll say a little bit more.

Firstly, 'Versus XIII' will be at E3. This is set in stone right now. It was pretty much set in stone from months ago. What did Nomura say? He's looking forward to the spring or some crap? I'm pretty sure I read that. That's kind of how far back they were good to go. And beyond that, he was told years ago for when he needs to be ready.

Also, I guess the following information isn't too intrusive and I think could be quite good so that it can provide some understanding regarding some things happening right now, and over the last few years. Especially for fans since obviously SE doesn't speak to you about anything. Beyond FFXIII's release, and the initial launch of FF14, quite a few drastic changes occurred. Even whilst those were being developed, there was a lot of discussion internally going on, but once they were out, some events occurred that they pushed ahead and made a change. As folks know, FF14 was a pretty big mistake and handled poorly. FFXIII also failed to accomplish what was necessary, and a huge part of this was the poor management of the game's development, and the failure of their engine.

To summarise it all, because of what happened with FFXIII and FF14, and the internal problems at the time, priorities changed to saving what could be saved and preparing better for the future instead. This is why for the past few years, you've basically had FFXIII sequels and full effort in trying to salvage FF14. The recent changes with management at SE is also to prepare for the next generation and hopefully giving a new and somewhat better image than SE have given themselves over these past few years. Best way to do that? Reset button with a new generation.

'Versus XIII' was the first project affected by the change and instead given a more long-term focus. It needs to set the tone for what's to come. So, in a way, there is a huge amount of focus behind it, and a lot riding on its success. At the same time, what Wada said all those years ago about being able to provide consistent content of high quality games; that's what will be the focus as soon as this next generation begins. The last 2-3 years have been about getting ready for that.

You miss the first year of the next generation platforms, and it can have a significant effect. You miss 2-3 years, and you're missing way too much time. This, all the while, other development studios are releasing big games every year essentially and selling millions. This then improves their profile, helps create a stronger brand identity, and ultimately gives them a more representative image. This is what SE needs to try and get back, and what they'll ultimately attempt to do. Whether they'll be successful or not remains to be seen. Though, I do certainly feel that the ball is in place for them to deliver some pretty big games over the next 4 years. If they can still mess it up, there is no hope. I don't think they will though.

2-3 years of proper development time isn't small. It's a lot. The key is in the preparation. If you don't have everything prepared (like FFXIII) then even 1-2 years can seem like it wasn't enough time. But, if you have things ready, a proper vision, and a development goal outlined clearly so various people know what needs to be done, then in 2-3 years, you can create some huge games. As it stands, with how HD development is, you can't just take your time and experiment and waste time and hope things will still work out (coughUedacough), unless your company is giving you that time because they don't necessarily need you as their big moneymaker right now (coughUedacough). It's about efficiency and knowing what you need to do. That's also part of a being game designer, understanding your limits and setting a realistic goal. If you have a big project that needs to be out in 3 years, you can't spend a year thinking about things and not even nailing the fundamental aspects of the game design so people don't know they need to do. At the same time, the tools need to be there too and working properly.

SE have had small teams preparing the next projects in line beyond the ones which are already going on, so there can be a smoother transition. Consideration needs to be given to what, hypothetically speaking, the FF15 and FF16 teams are going to do in a couple of years when they need another project. Every development studio keeps in mind what needs to come next, that's just how it is. However, things were so bad in the early generation for SE, they could't even properly accomplish that. That's how messed up it was. SE has a huge amount of manpower. They've just used it really poorly. It's not like they don't have talented people. They do, I can't really deny that, but they're just led by some dumbasses at times. They spent way too much time preparing a shitty engine this last generation, and the knock on effect of that failure, and their poor management basically made them ruin this generation for themselves.

Thankfully, they sorted their own mess out for the most part and were given a little help getting to grips with next gen, so they're much better prepared to go full steam ahead with development in the coming years. Both 2013 and 2014 will be good times for SE fans. There is a lot to be shown over the next year and a half.
Click to expand...
tumblr_mc1tn6dvEZ1rfwo9do1_500.gif
 
H

HeelPower

Member
BlackJace said:
@Verendus
Can I ask how you know this?
Click to expand...

Nothing in that post was unprecedented.Its all logical conclusions that anyone following SE closely can draw. Also , I don't think SE is developing FF15 and 16 simultaneously, that's nigh impossible.


You are going to see sequels to mainline FFs from now on.Versus is probably being built with a sequel or two in mind and they may have begun pre production for those sequels. That's the only feasible way you can pump out giant RPGs and make good money without risking too much : Reusing assets.

Next gen , development will be harder and more complicated.I would hate to say it ,but SE will probably focus a lot more on their western titles as well (Eidos and Co). They have explicitly stated that games will be developed per region.Guns and babes for America baby!!!

I highly doubt you are going to see much from SEJ on HD consoles apart from FF.
 
N

Napalm_Frank

Member
HeelPower said:
Nothing in that post was unprecedented.Its all logical conclusions that anyone following SE closely can draw. Also , I don't think SE is developing FF15 and 16 simultaneously, that's nigh impossible.


You are going to see sequels to mainline FFs from now on.Versus is probably being built with a sequel or two in mind and they may have begun pre production for those sequels. That's the only feasible way you can pump out giant RPGs and make good money without risking too much : Reusing assets.

Next gen , development will be harder and more complicated.I would hate to say it ,but SE will probably focus a lot more on their western titles as well (Eidos and Co). They have explicitly stated that games will be developed per region.Guns and babes for America baby!!!

I highly doubt you are going to see much from SEJ on HD consoles apart from FF.
Click to expand...
Lord Nomura-sama will shower us with HD KH goodness. Make no mistake!
 
zeopower6

zeopower6

Member
Busaiku said:
What if they just drop the XIII and keep it Versus.
Click to expand...

Verendus has hinted that "Versus XIII" is not even part of the name anymore. However, I don't think he ever said anything about it being XV or anything, though he did mention XV/XVI as being underway.
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
HeelPower said:
Nothing in that post was unprecedented.Its all logical conclusions that anyone following SE closely can draw. Also , I don't think SE is developing FF15 and 16 simultaneously, that's nigh impossible.
Click to expand...

They've developed multiple FF titles simultaneously before.
 
P

Persona86

Banned
HeelPower said:
Next gen , development will be harder and more complicated.I would hate to say it ,but SE will probably focus a lot more on their western titles as well (Eidos and Co). They have explicitly stated that games will be developed per region.Guns and babes for America baby!!!

I highly doubt you are going to see much from SEJ on HD consoles apart from FF.
Click to expand...
They said this crap, but I will believe it when I see it. Sometimes plans change.
 
F

Fraxin

Member
I think from what I remember, most E3s after 2006 weren't that good, so topping them isn't any difficult especially with the inclusion of new consoles
 
zeopower6

zeopower6

Member
Kyoufu said:
They've developed multiple FF titles simultaneously before.
Click to expand...

The difference is that I think they waited until they were further along with those titles (IX/X/XI for example) at the time of announcement and they were all released within 1-2 years of being announced.
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
zeopower6 said:
The difference is that I think they waited until they were further along with those titles (IX/X/XI for example) at the time of announcement and they were all released within 1-2 years of being announced.
Click to expand...

Who said they were going to announce FFXVI?
 
Z

Zoator

Member
I think rebranding Versus as FFXV is the wisest and most likely move at this point. The game will obviously still have ties to the FFXIII mythos, but that's not a problem since the world and characters are distinct enough to warrant being a new numbered Final Fantasy game.
 
H

HeelPower

Member
Napalm_Frank said:
Lord Nomura-sama will shower us with HD KH goodness. Make no mistake!
Click to expand...

KH ? I can only hope. Its pretty obvious that SE wasn't confident enough in their own franchises to make HD games for them. They took the safe rout and made games for handhelds (see KH BBS , 3D and T3B)

Instead, the focused heavily on western titles for HD games.Instead of a proper Parasite Eve you got Tomb raider.Sleeping dogs , hitman , Deus Ex could have all been Japanese franchise games but freaking wada thought otherwise.

Kyoufu said:
They've developed multiple FF titles simultaneously before.
Click to expand...

Yeah back in the 90s when FFIX , X and XI were being developed at the same time..but its different now

Persona86 said:
They said this crap, but I will believe it when I see it. Sometimes plans change.
Click to expand...

I hope I am wrong and see SEJ rise to prominence on consoles again.
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
zeopower6 said:
No one did.

But hasn't it been hinted that it's at least in development?
Click to expand...

Yeah. I'm not sure where you're going with this though. :p

HeelPower said:
Yeah back in the 90s when FFIX , X and XI were being developed at the same time..but its different now
Click to expand...

It's not really different now. They're still developing multiple FF titles simultaneously. Their problem was the difficult architecture of CELL coupled with their AWFUL White Engine/Crystal Tools engine set them back. Versus team had to help the XIII team. They weren't prepared.

But with PS4's X86 architecture and the Luminous engine I think they will do fine.
 
V

Verendus

Banned
Fraxin said:
Verendus, although Square does have some talented developers, yet other well known ones left the company e.g Matsuno and Takahashi. Do you think Square, with the talent they have now, can still offer solid titles?
Click to expand...
They're a huge company. It's their job to cultivate the talent they have. And yes, I do think they can still offer solid titles. Just because a couple of known names have left doesn't mean there aren't other talented people that can be future leaders for them. We see a very small amount of what's happening there internally. We know little of where some ideas may be coming from, how just how much of a team effort it can sometimes be. Game development is hard work, and there will inevitably be people who shine enough to be given more responsibility. From them, there's bound to be those who can take ownership in the future. Even FFXIII, diabolically shit as it may be in my eyes, has aspects that I find impressive. Someone is responsible for that.

HeelPower said:
KH ? I can only hope. Its pretty obvious that SE wasn't confident enough in their own franchises to make HD games for them. They took the safe rout and made games for handhelds (see KH BBS , 3D and T3B)

Instead, the focused heavily on western titles for HD games.Instead of a proper Parasite Eve you got Tomb raider.Sleeping dogs , hitman , Deus Ex could have all been Japanese franchise games but freaking wada thought otherwise.
Click to expand...
No, they couldn't, and it would be absolutely stupid to attempt such a thing. Those franchises came from certain teams, and those teams have people who are passionate or heavily involved with those games in various ways. You don't just make them take over a franchise they have no affinity to. It's a big gamble. It was a smart thing to have Tomb Raider, Hitman, Deus Ex etc. What probably wasn't smart was how they were handled financially.
 
T

Takuya

Banned
I can see them announcing the next three mainline titles exclusive to PS4/Sony.

Probably including 14:ARR, so 14-15-16.
 
B

BlazingDarkness

Member
HeelPower said:
Nothing in that post was unprecedented.Its all logical conclusions that anyone following SE closely can draw. Also , I don't think SE is developing FF15 and 16 simultaneously, that's nigh impossible.


You are going to see sequels to mainline FFs from now on.Versus is probably being built with a sequel or two in mind and they may have begun pre production for those sequels. That's the only feasible way you can pump out giant RPGs and make good money without risking too much : Reusing assets.

Next gen , development will be harder and more complicated.I would hate to say it ,but SE will probably focus a lot more on their western titles as well (Eidos and Co). They have explicitly stated that games will be developed per region.Guns and babes for America baby!!!

I highly doubt you are going to see much from SEJ on HD consoles apart from FF.
Click to expand...

All of this conjecture is pretty off, to be honest.
SE aren't going to approach a title with multiple sequels in mind, like they did with the FNC project - there's very little chance they'll repeat the mistake of XIII which tied various games to the original title and thus diminished their value.
SE failed to develop a selection of titles based on the same mythos/story of the first because it was received as a commercial and critical failure to a degree, thus any consequential titles would suffer as a result. This is why we saw Agito XIII become Type 0 and Versus XIII as XV. The idea of branding around an original title failed, forcing them to re-brand.
It worked better for Final Fantasy VII (despite the wavering quality of some) and it's subsequent spin offs and whatnot because those were created much after the source material, which proved to be very successful - XIII is proof that SE can't just decide to create several spin offs prior its inception in the market. Of course they can plan for possible sequels, but production is no guarantee.

As for your comment about them not working on future FF titles (XVI etc) that's also incorrect - concepts and ideas surface years before full production begins. SE juggle multiple projects in pre-production (which is what Versus and XIII were in following their E3 06 trailers, for at least a couple of years) before they go into full production, in this stage big changes both to design and engine continue to occur. When XIV sank a lot of staff in pre-production of Versus were probably pulled away to help revive the failing MMORPG.

Personally I believe we'll see multiple mainline FF titles (and a possible sequel depending on how those are received) and also we'll see Kingdom Hearts back on consoles.
 
S

salromano

Member
Hey, Verendus. When you said FF15 and FF16 are underway, did you mean FF15 is a separate project from Versus XIII? You said Versus XIII would drop the "Versus XIII," but never mentioned its new name.

Unless it's just... Final Fantasy. (I joke, but it makes sense with Verendus' wording. If it drops "Versus XIII," all that's left is Final Fantasy.)

Are you able to say if there's any credence to the VGLeaks rumors that Sony's co-developing?
 
R

Reveirg

Member
So with all those rumors that surrounded the PS4 event, I forgot if Verendus' track record still holds up.

Should we believe what you say? And why?
 
H

HeelPower

Member
Verendus said:
No, they couldn't, and it would be absolutely stupid to attempt such a thing. Those franchises came from certain teams, and those teams have people who are passionate or heavily involved with those games in various ways. You don't just make them take over a franchise they have no affinity to. It's a big gamble. It was a smart thing to have Tomb Raider, Hitman, Deus Ex etc. What probably wasn't smart was how they were handled financially.
Click to expand...

I mean the money pumped into these games probably could have been funnelled to make console games for their Japanese franchises...I don't mean you should ask teams that made TR and Co to handle JP franchises.

BlazingDarkness said:
All of this conjecture is pretty off, to be honest.
SE aren't going to approach a title with multiple sequels in mind, like they did with the FNC project - there's very little chance they'll repeat the mistake of XIII which tied various games to the original title and thus diminished their value.
SE failed to develop a selection of titles based on the same mythos/story of the first because it was received as a commercial and critical failure to a degree, thus any consequential titles would suffer as a result. This is why we saw Agito XIII become Type 0 and Versus XIII as XV. The idea of branding around an original title failed, forcing them to re-brand.
It worked better for Final Fantasy VII (despite the wavering quality of some) and it's subsequent spin offs and whatnot because those were created much after the source material, which proved to be very successful - XIII is proof that SE can't just decide to create several spin offs prior its inception in the market. Of course they can plan for possible sequels, but production is no guarantee.

As for your comment about them not working on future FF titles (XVI etc) that's also incorrect - concepts and ideas surface years before full production begins. SE juggle multiple projects in pre-production (which is what Versus and XIII were in following their E3 06 trailers, for at least a couple of years) before they go into full production, in this stage big changes both to design and engine continue to occur. When XIV sank a lot of staff in pre-production of Versus were probably pulled away to help revive the failing MMORPG.

Personally I believe we'll see multiple mainline FF titles (and a possible sequel depending on how those are received) and also we'll see Kingdom Hearts back on consoles.
Click to expand...

I hope I am wrong and you are correct. I want to believe what you say but at the same time , some of what they say worries me.



@salromano : Hey , I like gematsu its pretty awesome. I regularly visit it.
 
S

SoraanTribal

Member
Fraxin said:
Haven't been anticipating an E3 event for while now
Click to expand...

Part of me always anticipates E3 for the possible surprises, but this year in particular has so much going on, it's hard not to get excited. Not even just Final Fantasy related - I'm dying to see Monolith Soft's "X" game again.
 
C

CrimsonCrescendo

Banned
CcrooK said:
This thread...this.....this...

2NlHy5K.gif
Click to expand...

I'll believe all of this when I see it happen. I mean, no offense to Verendus. The stuff about SE fucking up? Yeah, I believe it. Especially since I already figured that the XIII sequels were made to be filler until they could get their shit together. That Square will make a lasting change? That remains to be seen. Plans and best intentions are good and all, but the execution of said plans is what matters. They could horribly botch everything for all we know.
 
S

SgtCobra

Member
salromano said:
Hey, Verendus. When you said FF15 and FF16 are underway, did you mean FF15 is a separate project from Versus XIII? You said Versus XIII would drop the "Versus XIII," but never mentioned its new name.

Unless it's just... Final Fantasy. (I joke, but it makes sense with Verendus' wording. If it drops "Versus XIII," all that's left is Final Fantasy.)

Are you able to say if there's any credence to the VGLeaks rumors that Sony's co-developing?
Click to expand...

I would like to know this as well.
 
B

BlazingDarkness

Member
HeelPower said:
I hope I am wrong and you are correct. I want to believe what you say but at the same time , some of what they say worries me.
Click to expand...

Much of what SE has been saying on the tail-end of this generation reflects a desire to return to the productivity of releasing large HD titles yearly or twice-yearly - like many other large publishers do. Yes this includes their western Eidos software but it also includes their Japanese branch. They're pretty much set to release a lot of games in the coming years - the black hole that was XIV and the Crystal Tools money sink will be a thing of the past.
 
P

PshycoNinja

Member
With all of our evidence and deductions Versus has to show. It just has too.

That being said everyone has a little part of them that is being skeptical. Which is fine and I get it. We've been through this so many times only to be burned. However, this time really is different. We've all put our chips in. It's time to roll the dice and see if we all made the right call in a few days.
 
S

Stone Ocean

Member
Kagari said:
Would be equally dumb because then people would assume it's a fighting game.
Click to expand...
A million times this. First time I heard of Versus I thought it was fucking Dissidia.

Naming a game <Franchise> Versus pretty makes you think it'll be a competitive or fighting game in 99% of the cases.
 
V

Verendus

Banned
HeelPower said:
I mean the money pumped into these games probably could have been funnelled to make console games for their Japanese franchises...I don't mean you should ask teams that made TR and Co to handle JP franchises.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but money is finite. So are people. You have budgets. What do those teams do? And who do you delegate projects to if people who you trust enough to lead are busy with other things? Eidos was a smart acquisition in my eyes. And those IPs are valuable. I'm confident SCE would love to have them.

SE needs to learn that not everything needs to sell 5 million. A handful of titles reach beyond that level. A game which is handled responsibly from a financial standpoint could sell 2-3 million and still be profitable. If you're to able to provide some consistency, you can have a very strong portfolio. Plus, it's a strategic move to have a mixture of Western oriented and Eastern oriented titles. Different cultures, different teams, different IPs, and different creations for the future too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Some Target Stores Reportedly No Longer Selling DVDs, Blu-rays, and CDs
2 3
100
6K
Laieon replied
GameSpot: Elden RIng's no longer the best selling game in the US for 2022. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare II has dethroned it.*
48
3K
bentanchorbolt replied
Amazon Luna will now let users play their Ubisoft PC game library for free, for compatible titles.
6
1K
UniformDeliverance replied
Valheim: Ashlands Gameplay Trailer
0
230
geary replied
Ser 5 Max an example of the future of the PC?
49
2K
Topher replied
Top Bottom