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[jimmypop]

I know what AO is and I can tell you that it adds depth to everything. I like it and sacrifice some performance for it.

I'm in agreement. IQ is enhanced with some degree of AO involved. To say otherwise is to willfully disregard the improved IQ.

 

[Makai]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=799580

 

[Afrodium]

OP acts as of a graphical effect ain't worth it unless it can catapult a normal screen into the realm of photorealism. It's the layering of multiple subtle techniques that will lead to better graphics, not the emergence of one amazing technique that replaces the need for anything else.

 

[liunli]

NOAO can sometimes make objects appear to be floating.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

Ambient Occlusion works great for making separate parts of an environment look like they genuinely connect in a subtle manner. This image is a great example of that:

The..."connectedness"? of the wall to the floor is more believable. It's a subtle effect, but one that is based in reality, and not bloody camera lens effects, like so many other modern game graphics techniques, and for that, I can appreciate it. Lighting should not be static at such 'crevices' of an environment.

The only problem I have with it is the generally bonkers performance drops that ensue.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

I wouldn't call it stupid, necessarily, but it's a pretty poor use of horsepower. Can't say I like taking a major frame rate hit for an effect you only really notice in screenshots... and even then, barely.

 

[Flipyap]

This is probably what OP meant:



(taken from this blog: [url]http://backslashn.com/post/37712343299/this-is-not-how-ambient-occlusion-works[/url])

But this is not the fault of Ambient Occlusion, but rather how it is used.

There is no doubt about Ambient Occlusion being incredibly important for CGI and is implemented in every single professional CGI production. Indirect shadows is just an integral part of lighting.

Now, one can criticize some Screen Space Ambient Occlusion implementations, but in general it has been critical for games to make the world look more grounded. There is a reason that after Crytek implemented the thing for Crysis, slowly every other developer followed.

In most cases it looks way way better. In Far Cry 3 they failed.[/QUOTE]
Yes! That's the exact series of images I wanted to post.

It's a shame that people are mindlessly attacking the original poster. Yeah, Ambient Occlusion is great when it's used well, but that's the thing - it usually isn't used well in video games.
That's been an issue with every new graphical technique that can be abused in video games, it always takes time before developers learn some restraint. Lens flares used to be the main comically misused effect, so was bump mapping, and now it's ambient occlusion and chromatic aberration.
Ambient occlusion tech and the way it's used will improve with time, but there's nothing to be gained by defending the kind of piss-poor implementation we see these days.

[quote="ActionRemix, post: 111761911"][url]http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=799580[/url][/QUOTE]
Almost every bit of shading that makes that plushie look so good is painted on, so it really doesn't belong in this thread.

 

[EternalTruth]

This is probably what OP meant:

(taken from this blog: http://backslashn.com/post/37712343299/this-is-not-how-ambient-occlusion-works)

But this is not the fault of Ambient Occlusion, but rather how it is used.

There is no doubt about Ambient Occlusion being incredibly important for CGI and is implemented in every single professional CGI production. Indirect shadows is just an integral part of lighting.

Now, one can criticize some Screen Space Ambient Occlusion implementations, but in general it has been critical for games to make the world look more grounded. There is a reason that after Crytek implemented the thing for Crysis, slowly every other developer followed.

In most cases it looks way way better. In Far Cry 3 they failed.

Yup, Farcry 3 AO looked like a terrible mess. Hopefully with Ubisoft's new relationship with Nvidia we will get support for HBAO+ next time around in Farcry 4...

 

[Crimsonsky]

Skyrim is where you lost me. I don't know all of the things that go into ENB to make it look fantastic, but I know that AO is one of them and the results speak for themselves. Also in your first Skyrim shot you have an extreme DOF setting which is skewing the results.

 

[SneakyStephan]

AO is the only post process effect worth using, and one of the best (and only good) modern graphical features.

Until we have pcs fast enough for real time GI with light bouncing AO is the best approximation you can get to add some depth to a scene

(I'm not even going to dignify far cry 3's pathetic excuse for "AO")

 

[NumberThree]

If given the choice between bloom, DoF, chromatic aberration or AO; I'll always pick AO. Unless it's a shitty implementation like Far Cry 3's, of course.

 

[Kuldar]

Is this a case of reverse psychology so that everyone say they notice the difference?

 

[KojiKnight]

If given the choice between bloom, DoF, chromatic aberration or AO; I'll always pick AO. Unless it's a shitty implementation like Far Cry 3's, of course.

Chromatic aberration is just dumb... it's like emulating screen curvature when playing NES games... There is no reason to try and capture the negative aspects of filming/etc.

DoF is dumb to me... I don't need a game forcing my focus on a part of the scene... just adds to motion sickness.

As for AO? Just another thing to disable if I need a bit more FPS. No hurt feelings on my part for it.

 

[KOCMOHABT]

Yes! That's the exact series of images I wanted to post.

It's a shame that people are mindlessly attacking the original poster. Yeah, Ambient Occlusion is great when it's used well, but that's the thing - it usually isn't used well in video games.
That's been an issue with every new graphical technique that can be abused in video games, it always takes time before developers learn some restraint. Lens flares used to be the main comically misused effect, so was bump mapping, and now it's ambient occlusion and chromatic aberration.

Ah see, but here I disagree. Most games look better with SSAO. Most games look better with Chromatic abberation. Most games look better with motion blur. Most games look better with DOF in cutscenes. Unless you overdo it it simply looks better in my opinion.

However, ENB, sweetFX etc. are not what I mean. Their implementations and most importantly overusage of these features are not goodlooking in my opinion.

But most game developers use these features somewhat wisely.

 

[The_Lump]

Is the entire OP written in a sarcastic tone or am I missing something? Every screenshot posted looked much improved by AO.

Worth it imo.

 

[SneakyStephan]

No game ever has or ever will look better with chromatic abberation
It looks like what happens to a really old crt tv when it is broken..

 

[Schweinehund]

Yeah it's not nearly as noticeable as some other features.

 

[Waaghals]

AO is expensive and often done badly.

However, when done properly it gives the image depth. It should be subtle.

 

[Trickster]

It's not a very noticable effect for sure. But it's obviously nice to have.

My beef with it, is that for what it offers graphically, it's seems to tax hardware way to much.

 

[Sinatar]

Yeah it's not nearly as noticeable as some other features.

Man if only it had some kind of descriptor in it's name saying as much...

A word like... oh I don't know... Ambient.

 

[Always-honest]

It's something i can live without . But if they have room to ad it, great.

 

[Lady Gaia]

He wasn't lamenting AO as an effect, but the fact that real-time AO is expensive. Pre-computed AO doesn't affect the framerate, so I guess he's ok with it.

I guess we can each interpret what the OP has to say in our own way, but between the title and the claim that it's either barely noticeable or unnatural-looking I think you're being charitable.

 

[Gaz_RB]

AO is awesome... I turn down other settings just to turn it on

 

[Paracelsus]

Gimmick effect to sell 500$ gpu.

 

[Flipyap]

Ah see, but here I disagree. Most games look better with SSAO. Most games look better with Chromatic abberation. Most games look better with motion blur. Most games look better with DOF in cutscenes. Unless you overdo it it simply looks better in my opinion.

However, ENB, sweetFX etc. are not what I mean. Their implementations and most importantly overusage of these features are not goodlooking in my opinion.

But most game developers use these features somewhat wisely.

In most last gen games ambient occlusion either produced unnatural black auras around objects/characters (and this might still keep happening if Bound By Flame is any indication), or it was a shifting mess of living shadows that crawled away as an object/character obstructed the view of a SSAO'd corner, which I find really distracting even when it doesn't look like someone painstakingly spray painted every edge.

 

[jediyoshi]

It's a shame that people are mindlessly attacking the original poster. Yeah, Ambient Occlusion is great when it's used well, but that's the thing - it usually isn't used well in video games.
That's been an issue with every new graphical technique that can be abused in video games, it always takes time before developers learn some restraint. Lens flares used to be the main comically misused effect, so was bump mapping, and now it's ambient occlusion and chromatic aberration.
Ambient occlusion tech and the way it's used will improve with time, but there's nothing to be gained by defending the kind of piss-poor implementation we see these days.

How is it mindless if it's a different statement being made? One is complaining about it, the other is complaining about how it's implemented. Also, one has a title ripped out of Kotaku.

 

[Randdalf]

Gimmick effect to sell 500$ gpu.

I see you don't understand what AO is.

 

[AndyBNV]

Without AO you'd have none of this shading:

Are you genuinely claiming that the shot on the left looks better in this example? http://international.download.nvidi...lack-flag-ambient-occlusion-comparison-2.html

 

[Gestault]

I've seen it done poorly, but that's more the exception than anything. Even many of your "bad" examples I think benefit from it. There are a lot of visual effects out there that can be implemented poorly, but that's a poor rational for criticizing the particular effect overall.

 

[Hunter D]

Its just a stop gap until we get ray tracing somehow some way.

 

[Dick Justice]

In that instance, I think it was patched in much later and maybe it didn't receive the same amount of fine tuning as the rest of the game. It does look very heavy handed there.



Harsh, but I see your point. Maybe console versions of games need a "performance mode" toggle where you can sacrifice AO, among other things, to get a more solid fps -- kind of like a more developed version of the toggles already available in some games (eg. v-sync, locked framerate, etc.).

Most likely added via ENB, AO was never officially patched in.

 

[sn00zer]

I dont think its worth the preformance hit....its usually the first thing i turn off if i having framerate issues

 

[-GOUKI-]

Op went full retard

 

[Durante]

Are you genuinely claiming that the shot on the left looks better in this example? http://international.download.nvidi...lack-flag-ambient-occlusion-comparison-2.html

That's a great comparison.

The image without AO looks incredibly flat, and the AO doesn't have any undesirable artifacts.

 

[Ty4on]

Great to see so much support outside the OP. AO can create depth in the simplest of scenes. I love how it makes even simple boxes look nice.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

I guess some really are fans of the flat Dreamcast look then

 

[Tevos]

AO is present in real life, so I'm assuming you hate it in real life too?

AO is a wonderful thing that adds a ton of depth to an image. I could not disagree with you more, OP.

 

[Anteater]

I guess some really are fans of the flat Dreamcast look then

you leave dreamcast out of this! modern sonic looks great with AO on

 

[Totobeni]

Many in game AO sucks (Bound By Flames is a recent example of how doing AO the wrong way) but Nvidia HBAO+ is freaking great and should be used in every game ever. I wish control panel can force HBAO+ for all games (it does but not for all games).

 

[Pagusas]

I guess some really are fans of the flat Dreamcast look then

Yep: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=817132

 

[-PXG-]

It's a resource hog and just really unnecessary. I always turn it completely off for my PC games.

 

[BruiserBear]

I disagree with most of the OP. I think the effect definitely adds something to the scene in most cases. Sure you can find examples where it's impact is minimal, but there are also cases where it's a big deal.

 

[TouchMyBox]

I can't remember ever getting a 20 fps hit from AO.

There are plenty of shit implementations, but the technique has made great progress with HBAO+.

Pretty much. Not every game uses AO as bad as Far Cry 3.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

It must be mentioned that ambient occlusion works better when there is more geometry in the scene to occlude the light source. The more objects, the more soft shadowing that needs to occur. So posting low poly count scenes with no objects in the foreground is not going to help get your point across.

 

[Zomba13]

Ambient Occlusion is stupid a pointless!
*Proceeds to show a bunch of pictures demonstrating why it's a good thing to have and not pointless at all*

 

[OldAsUrSock]

Yep: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=817132

I have seen it all.

 

[iceatcs]

Well done motionblur should mimic aditional screen information, or help tie FRAMEs together.

You have unfortunately experienced shit motionblur implementations in your life probably.

Yep. It is problem with multi-platform PC games. Allowing higher framerate than game standard look worse with motion blur. I always disable it if option.

 

[Poetic.Injustice]

I disagree, it helps a lot with the flat look a lot of games have. Someone instead make a thread for how shit Chromatic Aberration is.

 

[ArtHands]

Yes! That's the exact series of images I wanted to post.

It's a shame that people are mindlessly attacking the original poster. Yeah, Ambient Occlusion is great when it's used well, but that's the thing - it usually isn't used well in video games.
That's been an issue with every new graphical technique that can be abused in video games, it always takes time before developers learn some restraint. Lens flares used to be the main comically misused effect, so was bump mapping, and now it's ambient occlusion and chromatic aberration.
Ambient occlusion tech and the way it's used will improve with time, but there's nothing to be gained by defending the kind of piss-poor implementation we see these days.


Almost every bit of shading that makes that plushie look so good is painted on, so it really doesn't belong in this thread.

You might want to reread the op. He's saying that AO in generally isn't worth the time due to its minimal visual upgrade , which many people disagree. Its this little subtle bits here and there that adds up to provide a big difference.

 

[Nzyme32]

*moved