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[In Cold Blood]

AMD announces their FSR 3.0 will be coming soon and will give a 2x increase in framerates over FSR 2.0. That's quite the boast.
This is all coming about due to their "Fluid Motion Frames", which some are speculating is using some sort of ML.
We know that the XSX has lower precision abilities, and that Microsoft has been working very closely with AMD around Direct ML and not much has been revealed yet about what that will bring.

However, the base of FSR was that it could work on any GPU, so would AMD then go and release FSR 3.0 that can only work on GPUs with lower precision abilities?

Outside of Temporal reconstruction and improving the algorithms around that, there not alot of options to gain better results, especially the 2x claims from AMD, without using ML.

Obviously everything I said is guess work, but you would think both consoles would love an even greater gain from FSR 3.0, but is there a chance the tech isn't going to help consoles?

 

[Throttle]

It could be offered as an option. DLSS 3.0 is nowhere near as good as real framerates, but fake 60 might look better than real 30.

In any instance, I think FSR 2.1 is more promising for consoles.

 

[Skifi28]

I couldn't tell you whether it'll need hardware that's not in the consoles, but I really doubt we're going to see it anytime soon. DLSS3 is "ok" at best, AMD's solution is going to be even more crude and from what we've seen so far these techniques are best suited for upscaling 50-60fps to 100+. Using them for 30 to 60 produces quite bad results so consoles will mostly stay away from it even if it does work on the hardware. Like the poster above said, FSR2.1 as it keeps maturing is going to be the better solution for the foreseeable future as far as consoles are concerned.

 

[twilo99]

I agree, FSR 2.1 is what current gen machines would benefit the most from, especially the weaker one.

 

[baphomet]

Consoles won't be supporting it, and they shouldn't anyway.

Faking frames from 30fps to 60fps looks like shit when Nvidia does it. And AMD's solution probably looks even worse.

 

[Mister Wolf]

AMD have said that they are not sure they can get the motion interpolation running on their older generation GPUs.

 

[poppabk]

Most TVs can manage a basic version of this so I doubt consoles will struggle with it. At the same time I am not really excited for this except for stuff like MS flight sim, I think people mainly love high framerates for the 'feel' more than the 'look' and all the tech in the world can't make 30 FPS interpolated to 60 FPS respond like native 60 FPS.

 

[MadchesterManc]

Can't see why the consoles couldn't use it so long as AMD don't lock it to RDNA3 with its AI support, but as we've seen with DLSS 3, the lower the starting framerate the worse it ends up with regards to latency and artifacting - a 30fps game using this for '60fps' may end up feeling worse too with more latency than just running the game without.

 

[RaZoR No1]

As we all learned im the past PS5 has only RDNA 1.x features and Xbox Series has features beyond RDNA 2.

Spoiler

/s

Has Sony ever mentioned that the PS5 has any ML features and do we need ML for FSR 3.0?
It is funny that AMD cannot tell us, if FSR 3.0 will run on older GPUs. If not AMD is able to tell, who else?
What not change the name to something else? FSR runs on all / older GPUs and suddenly a new version does not?

Confusion of da highest orda.


IMO something like FSR 3.0 is the the reason MS included ML capabilities into the chip. Will they use FSR 3.0 or their own custom solution backed into the Xbox SDK? Unknown, but if not it will be a waste of silicon, because currently AFAIK no feature uses the ML capabilities of the Xbox Series consoles.

 

[adamsapple]

I agree, FSR 2.1 is what current gen machines would benefit the most from, especially the weaker one.

2077 is the first game to have FSR 2.1 (Scorn was the first to have 2.0) and the benefit based on early Series S tests are clearly obvious.

Much better consistency in both performance and frame times.

 

[Physiognomonics]

As we all learned im the past PS5 has only RDNA 1.x features and Xbox Series has features beyond RDNA 2.

Spoiler

/s

Has Sony ever mentioned that the PS5 has any ML features and do we need ML for FSR 3.0?
It is funny that AMD cannot tell us, if FSR 3.0 will run on older GPUs. If not AMD is able to tell, who else?
What not change the name to something else? FSR runs on all / older GPUs and suddenly a new version does not?

Confusion of da highest orda.


IMO something like FSR 3.0 is the the reason MS included ML capabilities into the chip. Will they use FSR 3.0 or their own custom solution backed into the Xbox SDK? Unknown, but if not it will be a waste of silicon, because currently AFAIK no feature uses the ML capabilities of the Xbox Series consoles.

No but Sony are already using ML inference in 2 games (Spider-man and God of War Ragnarok). Microsoft are sure talking a lot about the hardware features of their consoles, but are still not using ML in any of their games.

 

[RaZoR No1]

No but Sony are already using ML inference in 2 games (Spider-man and God of War Ragnarok). Microsoft are sure talking a lot about the hardware features of their consoles, but are still not using ML in any of their games.

Ah good to know.

MS is really slow this gen.. unfortunately..

 

[twilo99]

2077 is the first game to have FSR 2.1 (Scorn was the first to have 2.0) and the benefit based on early Series S tests are clearly obvious.

Much better consistency in both performance and frame times.

Yes, that makes sense.

More games need to implement this. For example Plague Tale would benefit greatly on both PC and console..

 

[FingerBang]

I don't think FSR3 should be used to go from 30 to 60, though maybe the option should be there.

This is an interesting video from LTT



Even though the image isn't as clean at lower framerates, overall most people were ok with it. At higher framerates though (> 60) no one could tell the difference. I think it would be great for 120 fps on consoles.

I doubt AMD's implementation will be as good as Nvidia so that's probably going to be ever truer for them.

 

[rushgore]

Has Sony ever mentioned that the PS5 has any ML features and do we need ML for FSR 3.0?

GoW Ragnarök supposedly uses ML on its performance mode to upscale to 4K from about 1800p according to NXGamer (or DF, I can't exactly recall), which renders it to be virtually same as the native 2160p mode.

 

[Allandor]

2077 is the first game to have FSR 2.1 (Scorn was the first to have 2.0) and the benefit based on early Series S tests are clearly obvious.

Much better consistency in both performance and frame times.

It is really hard to tell, but it seems CDPR also reduced the traffic with the new patch. There seems to be less cars and pedestrians in that video with the new patch. I have the feeling that FSR2.1 was not the only thing they changed.

 

[Amiga]

It could be offered as an option. DLSS 3.0 is nowhere near as good as real framerates, but fake 60 might look better than real 30.

In any instance, I think FSR 2.1 is more promising for consoles.

I actually use interpolation for gaming on my TV (other than twitchy games). It's one of the features I look out for in a TV. Doing it natively on the GPU should reduce the added input lag.

 

[twilo99]

I guess the question is how much more ML power is needed for FSR 3 compared to 2.1 and can the consoles provide that.

I guess we will know once we see how/if it runs on RDNA 2

 

[TrueLegend]

People need to set expectation in check, consoles cant do reasonable 120 for supremely optimized engines at stable very high 1080p except for games like Nioh. FSR 2.1 will enable games like Elden Ring and A Plague's Tale hit Flatline Frame time at 60fps at best and thats very good.

 

[marjo]

According to what I've read, frame generation really only works well when your base framerate is already at least 80-100 fps. I don't think this will have much use on consoles.

 

[HTK]

What's in it for the consoles?

On consoles shit just works ssoooo...I'm not sure.

 

[twilo99]

According to what I've read, frame generation really only works well when your base framerate is already at least 80-100 fps. I don't think this will have much use on consoles.

How many console games are currently hitting 120fps and how many are locked at 60fps but could potentially go higher if unlocked..

I'd say it's a substantial number

 

[marjo]

How many console games are currently hitting 120fps and how many are locked at 60fps but could potentially go higher if unlocked..

I'd say it's a substantial number

But how many console gamers use high refresh displays (165hz+)? If not using one, there wouldn't be much use.

 

[b0uncyfr0]

But how many console gamers use high refresh displays (165hz+)? If not using one, there wouldn't be much use.

You dont need to have a 165 hz display to get the benefits while on a 60 hz display. Input lag and responsiveness for example would be insanely lower.

I agree as well, there are a shitload of games that could be rocking 120hz with the series x hardware but dev's wont do it.

 

[Kazekage1981]

8k upscaling with 30-40fps support. 4k upscaling with 60-120fps support. All these 8k UHDTV's out with HDMI 2.1 and VRR and the 8k is not being utilized with these current gen consoles.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

It is really hard to tell, but it seems CDPR also reduced the traffic with the new patch. There seems to be less cars and pedestrians in that video with the new patch. I have the feeling that FSR2.1 was not the only thing they changed.

The peds and cars are instanced, you will never see the same amount each time you play it so in videos there is always going to be differences. Not possible to get a 100% like to like benchmark here.

And I don't think the changed any density. Played for an hour last night and the areas that were normally packed didn't look any different to me.

 

[MachRc]

After two years, I gave up on consoles using FSR/ML to get more quality/performances/raytracing done.

I know we're finally see some titles incorporate it like CP2077, Scorn, and a few others but
I was hoping to cross off Minecraft with ray tracing on the Series X like they previewed it years ago.

Had to go Nvidia to cross that off my gaming to-do lists.

 

[playsaves3]

2077 is the first game to have FSR 2.1 (Scorn was the first to have 2.0) and the benefit based on early Series S tests are clearly obvious.

Much better consistency in both performance and frame times.

Where did you find that's analysis

 

[adamsapple]

Where did you find that's analysis

 

[playsaves3]

Is there a series x and ps5 analysis

 

[blastprocessor]

Noticeable hit to IQ i.e., subpixel aliasing.

 

[adamsapple]

Is there a series x and ps5 analysis

There's a bunch of these on YT, nothing from any of the "renowned" channels like DF, NXG, VGTech etc yet.

Some of the analysis guys say the game looks sharper than before (i-e sticking to higher DRS ranges thanks to FSR) but there are some shimmering artifacts here and there.

Noticeable hit to IQ i.e., subpixel aliasing.

I can't notice any perceptible difference with that video in HD. Can you point some places or snapshots where you see a noticeable hit ?

 

[crazyriddler]

Noticeable hit to IQ i.e., subpixel aliasing.

Noticeable my ass.

 

[In Cold Blood]

After two years, I gave up on consoles using FSR/ML to get more quality/performances/raytracing done.

I know we're finally see some titles incorporate it like CP2077, Scorn, and a few others but
I was hoping to cross off Minecraft with ray tracing on the Series X like they previewed it years ago.

Had to go Nvidia to cross that off my gaming to-do lists.

I'm kinda with you. I will talk about Xbox here because we have more information about the XSX than PS5.
Firstly Microsoft has an API for ML called Direct ML
Secondly that added Int 4 and int 8 capabilities in the XSX exactly for this purpose and said it was for super Resolution and even gave figured about how much performance increases they will get from it.
Thirdly MS many years ago released information and media of them doing ML upscaling on Forza.

Here we are two years into the XSX life and we haven't had anything come from it.
I don't know why. Maybe it just doesn't do enough. Maybe devs don't have the desire or resources to use it, and with the contracts we have seen from Sony saying that devs can't use any Xbox abilities that arnt available on PS5, maybe they can't.

To me everything is going to Hinge on what Turn 10 can do with the new Forzatech engine. It's been built from the ground up to take advantage of all DX12 Ultimate extensions such as Mesh Shaders, SFS, XVA, Direct Storage and Direct ML.
If they arnt going to use it, then no one will.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

I agree, FSR 2.1 is what current gen machines would benefit the most from, especially the weaker one.

The problem with FSR2 is that it's very demanding so at a certain cutoff you're worst off using FSR2 than traditional techniques.

 

[blastprocessor]

Noticeable my ass.

I'd suggest an eye test you can see shimmering (subpixel aliasing) seconds into the video (right hand side).

 

[In Cold Blood]

AMD is apparently set to announce FSR 3.0 on the 23rd of March at GDC, only a couple of days away now.
So what are we expecting?
AMD is saying 2 x the performance upgrade over 2.0.
Some people are saying there might be a ML learning component involved.
Am I the only one hanging to see what it is?

 

[Thebonehead]

To me everything is going to Hinge on what Turn 10 can do with the new Forzatech engine. It's been built from the ground up to take advantage of all DX12 Ultimate extensions such as Mesh Shaders, SFS, XVA, Direct Storage and Direct ML.
If they arnt going to use it, then no one will.

Turn 10 is a fairly small team from what I recall, so I don't think there will be a paradigm shift in their engine using mesh shaders or ml, unless they have had support from other teams.

 

[TonyK]

I wish FSR 2 were more used in games. In Cyberpunk for Xbox serX the improvement in sharpness for performance mode is night and day. Each time I play a blurry game I don't understand why they don't implement FSR.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Fsr 2.1 for all consoles. Fsr 3will be interesting jto see though.

 

[b0uncyfr0]

AMD is apparently set to announce FSR 3.0 on the 23rd of March at GDC, only a couple of days away now.
So what are we expecting?
AMD is saying 2 x the performance upgrade over 2.0.
Some people are saying there might be a ML learning component involved.
Am I the only one hanging to see what it is?

Nope - been anticipating this for a while. Now we just need a killer game to show it off - 90% chance that aint happening though

 

[In Cold Blood]

Turn 10 is a fairly small team from what I recall, so I don't think there will be a paradigm shift in their engine using mesh shaders or ml, unless they have had support from other teams.

They have rebuilt a whole new engine so you would assume one of their breifs would be to build it around DX12 U and its features. If they didn't, then they are wack.

 

[In Cold Blood]

Fsr 2.1 for all consoles. Fsr 3will be interesting jto see though.

There was some people saying that FSR 3.0 will involve some.sort of ML acceleration, and be only available on later AMD cards and XSXS which have the lower precision abilities.

 

[azertydu91]

There was some people saying that FSR 3.0 will involve some.sort of ML acceleration, and be only available on later AMD cards and XSXS which have the lower precision abilities.

Was it you? You said the same thing about ps5 and FSR 2.0.

 

[analog_future]

I wish FSR 2 were more used in games. In Cyberpunk for Xbox serX the improvement in sharpness for performance mode is night and day. Each time I play a blurry game I don't understand why they don't implement FSR.

FSR 2.x is really impressive in Dead Space as well. Looks very sharp and it's ~972p Performance Mode / ~1296p Fidelity Mode.

 

[Moses85]

AMD is apparently set to announce FSR 3.0 on the 23rd of March at GDC, only a couple of days away now.
So what are we expecting?
AMD is saying 2 x the performance upgrade over 2.0.
Some people are saying there might be a ML learning component involved.
Am I the only one hanging to see what it is?

I am a noob, sorry. This means PS5 and XSX are capable of FSR 3.0?

 

[JimboJones]

I am a noob, sorry. This means PS5 and XSX are capable of FSR 3.0?

Most likely not capable.

 

[Raphael]

will this be available to the 6 series radeons? Or will they go the crappy nvidia route of marketing blocks.

Edit: seems that this will eventaually come to the 6 series, and possibly 5 even.

 

[winjer]

AMD stated that their goal is to make FSR3 available to as many GPUs as they can. Similar to FSR2.
During their presentation, they mentioned about Fluid Motion. This was a tech to interpolate video, but support was removed from RDNA1 onwards.
So they might be trying to have a frame interpolation using shaders and video encoder. Maybe.
But it's very unlikely that it will use machine learning.

 

[In Cold Blood]

Was it you? You said the same thing about ps5 and FSR 2.0.

Umm, no.
Not sure where you got that from.
I said that FSR 2.0 couldn't be used on PS5 until Sony allowed it to be used, as I read that that it needed to be done on an API level, and only Sony can alter the PS5 API.
I'm not saying FSR 3.0 can't be done on the PS5 either, as none of us know what it exactly is at this point. Might just be the exact same thing but with improved algorithms to stop ghosting etc.
I brought up that some people are saying that it might actually involve some form of ML this time, which would limit the GPUs it could be used on.
I guess it's an interesting take as AMD have said it gives 2 x the performance upgrade over 2.0. How do you get a 200% performance upgrade by just improving the image quality? That wouldn't give any extra frames, it would just give a better image that has less ghosting etc.
So for there to be a 200% uptick, something different could be at play.