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AMD Ryzen CPUs will launch by March 3
- Thread starter TC McQueen
- Start date
Electret
Member
Vaguely related to per-core clock adjustments but OT, I want to ask a question I've had for a long time:
Given that many workloads are exclusively single-threaded, or are "single-core-bound", why have we not seen a CPU with an asymmetric core design - i.e., a CPU with a fat, powerful single core backed up by less powerful cores? Not even just with respect to clock but functional units. Is it simply the higher cost and complexity associated with its would be engineering and manufacturing, without the commensurate benefit (in terms of added performance, or added profit for the manufacturer)?
Given that many workloads are exclusively single-threaded, or are "single-core-bound", why have we not seen a CPU with an asymmetric core design - i.e., a CPU with a fat, powerful single core backed up by less powerful cores? Not even just with respect to clock but functional units. Is it simply the higher cost and complexity associated with its would be engineering and manufacturing, without the commensurate benefit (in terms of added performance, or added profit for the manufacturer)?
dr_rus
Member
Lol. Well, Intel does look a bit worried as Ryzen will most likely eat into their workstation market by quite a lot and force them to lower their ASPs across the whole lineup without any apparent way to compensate for that. They will probably try to postpone anything major (like slashing 6900K's price in two for example) until CFL launch though.
Xander51
Member
That's a bit similar to the concept behind the PS3's cell processor, which did excellently when games were written for that environment...and very poorly when they weren't.
I'm glad that AMD is back in the race, but also happy enough with my i7 6700 to not upgrade any time near term. The next PC I build though might be my first with an AMD processor since I owned a K6-2 450.
The number of DIMM slots on a motherboard is typically double the number of channels. For quite a while now Intel has two different platforms aimed at consumer and server use, although the latter is better known to us as HEDT (high-end desktop):
Consumer (e.g. LGA 1150) - 2 to 4 cores, 2 channel RAM, normally 4 DIMM slots
Server/HEDT (e.g. LGA 2011) - 6 to 24 cores, 4 channel RAM, normally 8 DIMM slots
They're actually moving to 6 channel RAM with their next server/HEDT socket, though (for Skylake-E based chips).
AMD are moving the breakpoint between consumer and server sockets up quite a bit with their Zen-based chips. From them we're getting:
Consumer/HEDT (Ryzen) - 4 to 8 cores, 2 channel RAM, normally 4 DIMM slots
Server (Naples) - 16 to 32 cores, 8 channel RAM, potentially 16 DIMM slots
It's very unlikely that we're going to see any consumer oriented products based on the Naples platform. It's very much a server/HPC product line, and would be priced well, well out of the reach of us mere mortals.
To be fair to Cinebench, although I generally dislike synthetic benchmarks, it does have a couple of things going for it. For one, it's based on an actual professional production renderer rendering an actual scene, so it is at least reasonably representative of a system's performance in one task, even if that doesn't generalise. The other benefit (and part of the reason it's become so popular, I'd imagine) is that it's a genuinely "embarrassingly parallel" task which can stress anything from a little single-core system to a multi-socket monster. Of course not all tasks will scale like that, but there's not much point buying an 8C/16T CPU if it's not for highly parallelizable tasks.
We have, in fact your phone probably already has one. Most smartphone processors these days (aside from the very entry-level) utilise ARM's big.LITTLE architecture, which combines smaller, more energy efficient cores with bigger, more powerful ones. For phones this is mostly a case of energy efficiency, as it allows the phone to run on the smaller, more efficient cores most of the time, and then make use of the big cores more rarely, only for tasks where the extra speed is needed.
Electret
Member
Ah, yes. The fatter PPEs and the smaller SPUs. Good call!
Interesting, and damn good information. Thank you both.
lukeskymac
Member
That's exactly it.
I'm good with the 1700X then. Maybe disable XFR and OC myself (that's still a thing, right? Disabling the auto-OC and manually bump it).
It should do 4.2 on air, I'd imagine. My 1090t is sitting comfortably at +600 over stock (3.2 -> 3.8). I have a Thermaltake Frio on it in a push/pull config and I don't think it's ever gone above 52C with Prime95 running at max.
I also have a $100 Amazon GC I've been waiting to burn on this. So, $300 for 1700X makes me happy.
The problem with waiting to preorder is that you also miss out on limited time deals.
For example in Canada, Mike's Computer shop had a limited quantity of 1800X selling at $619.99 CAD today.
That translates to roughly $471 USD. It's not much, but considering the next cheapest retailer is at $655 CAD, it's about $40 cheaper before tax is even factored in.
Luckily in Canada, most companies also don't charge you until they ship. So there's almost no drawback to preordering here.
The con is that they place a temporary authorization on your CC, so it does affect your remaining credit.
For example in Canada, Mike's Computer shop had a limited quantity of 1800X selling at $619.99 CAD today.
That translates to roughly $471 USD. It's not much, but considering the next cheapest retailer is at $655 CAD, it's about $40 cheaper before tax is even factored in.
Luckily in Canada, most companies also don't charge you until they ship. So there's almost no drawback to preordering here.
The con is that they place a temporary authorization on your CC, so it does affect your remaining credit.
I think having 4cores not outperform 8cores when comparing single core performance is a good indication that cores are pretty much maxed out, and making more powerful processors is only a matter of duplicating them. We already hit the limit for frequency about ten years ago, which promoted the move to multi core architecture. You can gain some results by designing cores better, but the race for single core performance is mostly over.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
No, we have like 2 benchmarks.
sunshine and gasoline
Banned
neurosisxeno
Member
2 pretty mediocre synthetic benchmarks at that.
I'll take a stab at this one since it wasn't really addressed. The way Zen is set up is in 4 Core blocks. So the 4C/8T chips will have 1 block, and the 6C/12T and 8C/16T will likely be the 2 block variation, with binned chips being repackaged as the 6C/12T version of the CPU. It's possible--depending on how committed they are--that AMD could release some 6C/12T that can be unlocked, but that's always a dream scenario.
Good on you guys. In the US it's basically the usual Microcenter bundle, but there weren't any motherboards up when I preordered.
Finaika
Member
6700K is still a beast.
For gaming, yeah, but for video editing and stuff, it looks like the 1700 has it beat.
You're both correct. I lock to 4k/30 on my 50" with Hitman. I tend to either lock 4k/30 in most newer games (I don't like frame drops or tearing) or go with 1440p/1080p/60+. Checkerboard does wonders in a couple games too. However, that's why I'm looking at AMD's new hardware for the first time in a long time. I'm reaching that point I'm ready to make a move.
So, what does it say if even HardOCP is recommending Ryzen?
https://hardforum.com/threads/dont-be-a-pussy-preorder-amd-ryzen-today.1925545/
https://hardforum.com/threads/dont-be-a-pussy-preorder-amd-ryzen-today.1925545/
Kyle seems to be just having some fun.
Probably. He probably just posted it because news is news, but has he ever posted a news article like that before?
Beerman462
Member
I hope Ryzen is legit. $240 I paid for a 6600k feels like robbery. I wanted a 6 core for that price, but it was the only viable upgrade path at the time.
I think 6600K will easily beat Ryzen in most games except for a few very well-threaded ones.
He posts a lot of things .__. lol
scoobs
Member
The best part of all of this is intel will finally be forced to move to 6/8 core across the board, and actually innovate again. They got so complacent, it really bums me out how much they were charging for their CPUs with zero competition. I understand why they did it from a business perspective, but its still pretty shitty.
God bless AMD, I'm strongly considering them for my next build now.
God bless AMD, I'm strongly considering them for my next build now.
MeisterLeder
Banned
Any benchs from the R5 Series? Prices?
michaelius
Banned
Watch out salt is dangerous for your health.
Does it still hurt that they got their prediction about RX480 being hot piece of crap that will be bargain priced to push units correct ?
Can't tell if serious or not
and abundance of salt is bad for your health. Body needs salt!
Nostremitus
Member
Smart move warning people to be weary of your own saltiness. Quite the gentleman/lady.
What happens if the benchmarks come out day of release and you realize maybe it's not good? Or should we feel safe in getting them?
PdotMichael
Banned
The RX480 is a piece of crap?
Aztechnology
Member
amd stopped giving the guy from hardOCP free samples and then the dude said the rx 480 was going to be a piece of crap.
Nostremitus
Member
Should run great, especially with the DX12 back-end.
Unknown Soldier
Member
It's being outsold by the 1060 by a ratio of 4:1 or 5:1. You tell me?
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
These are now the top three selling CPUs on Amazon in the US and UK.
That's what happens when you halve the price of Intel's 8-cores and beat them in performance at the same time (1800X vs 6900K).
That's what happens when you halve the price of Intel's 8-cores and beat them in performance at the same time (1800X vs 6900K).
Nostremitus
Member
That has nothing to do with how it functions... Don't confuse brand loyalty with how good something is, or lack of said loyalty with the quality of the item.
That fact is, it matches or outperforms the 1060 on current games and drivers.
Aztechnology
Member
Ok, I'll tell you as someone who owns a 1070 and has been a sole Nvidia user for over a decade.
It's not crap. The 480 trades blows with the 1060 and even outclasses it on quite a few games (No doubt due to console optimization) for a better price.
I find it hard to recommend a 1060 over a 480 for people looking to play current titles.
Unknown Soldier
Member
If I was Intel I would be pissed, it's not just fucking their margins on consumer HEDT, it's also going to destroy their margins in their server business where the real money on x86 CPU is made. And this is a terrible time for that to be happening to Intel too with all their x86 businesses in decline and nothing else on the horizon because they completely failed to break into mobile.
AMD may or may not save their company this way, but they are going to sabotage Intel so hard with this pricing.
Mahnmut
Member
That doesn't mean it's a piece of crap.
It kicks 1060's ass on several games, perform worse on other, offers same performance on some. That's not what I call a piece of crap. We'll see in 2-3 years when Nvidia will drop any support for that card how well it perform.
So the shoe is on the other foot now, what with Intel screwing over AMD in the past
Aztechnology
Member
I have a hard time caring. Such is business. AMD's been in the weeds so long that its ridiculous to feel bad for Intel who's reaped immense profit over the last decade.
I bought Intel for a decade, now I'll buy AMD. It's up to Intel to decide if they want to compete. I have no brand loyalty.
D
Deleted member 59090
Unconfirmed Member
R5 coming in Q2, R3 in second half of the year. At least 1600x clocks are higher than rumored.
