That PC will have had a total bandwidth of around 60GB/s (8GB/s main memory bandwidth and 51.2GB/s for video memory), I wouldn't be surprised if WiiU's total memory bandwidth is over 200GB/s (12.8GBps main memory and 150-200GB/s for eDRAM). Not an apples to apples comparison, but neither is comparing graphics card memory bandwidth to WiiU's main memory bandwidth either.
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Anandtech Wii U Teardown
- Thread starter Zombie James
- Start date
That PC will have had a total bandwidth of around 60GB/s (8GB/s main memory bandwidth and 51.2GB/s for video memory), I wouldn't be surprised if WiiU's total memory bandwidth is over 200GB/s (12.8GBps main memory and 150-200GB/s for eDRAM). Not an apples to apples comparison, but neither is comparing graphics card memory bandwidth to WiiU's main memory bandwidth either.
longdi
Banned
I think a lot of people including me expected the Wii U to be rightly quite a bit more powerful than PS360. A DC to N64 situation if you will. The advances of GPU tech over the last 5 years was rapid and competitive
The games, the weaker cpu, the ram, the teardown, i think the situation is developing to be more like Xbox and Wii again. The new HD twins look promising to overpower Nintendo's console too.
But with current estimated spec of Wii U and rumored spec of next-gen PS/xbox, that the gap between the two will be smaller than the gap between wii and PS3/360?
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Really good point. No Medal of Honor: Warfighter port either, and no word on Army of Two: Wii U yet.
Well nobody can learn a lesson from something that hasn't happened yet. Don't count your eggs ect ect..
I understand why you might think that but its a flawed comparison. Wii was a much less feature rich console than XBox. Fixed function hardware vs programmable hardware. WiiU is a unified programmable shader architecture like other next gen consoles. Also we shouldn't make too many assumptions on performance yet, like the CPU being weaker for instance, nothing to confirm its really weaker at this point.
Those games are all on 360 aren't they? A console which uses a much more limited version of the same kind of design. I don't see deferred shading being a problem in 32MB of memory at 720p, at 1080p yes quite possible. But there are other things that would limit WiiU's ability to produce that kind of game at 1080p before memory limitations ever kick in.
Wii U situation is not even close.
Wii was better console than any PS2 or Xbox it was clear better system but in comparition to PS3 or X360 it was last generation techwise.
Wii U situation is even worse because games can't even look better than current gen games.
When next generation hits Wii U difference to new powerfull consoless will be like big canyon.
People said Zelda box like Wii. And this is probably what will happen with WiiU. Whole industry will switch to next Xbox and Ps and WiiU will be treated with last gen ports..
MrCunningham
Member
And when Project Revolution was announced, people were expecting it to be heads and shoulders above the original Xbox hardware. It was not.
Wii was moderately more powerful than XBox in most ways (30% more RAM, a bit faster CPU) but no it was not a clearly better system because it had a much less advanced fixed function DX7 GPU vs a programmable DX8 GPU. That meant its graphics really couldn't surpass XBox.
Now we have WiiU which we know has more RAM (over 100% more) and a more powerful GPU. But we also know it has a more feature rich GPU, DX10.1+ vs DX9 for XBox 360 and PS3.
So no the situation isn't worse, its much better. Please take some time to compare specs.
Beer Monkey
Member
I wonder what the Ambassador game list will be like if the Wii U gets an early, massive pricecut like the 3DS. Given the innards, it sure seems like they'll be able to afford it.
They're making a loss, something that's been known for a while now, so no.
Ken Masters
Banned
They won't be taking making a loss for too long
No, but I don't think they were ever making a loss on 3DS. Fact is they won't be able to drop the price early on without continuing to make a loss, an even bigger one than now.
tinfoilhatman
all of my posts are my avatar
So how long before we have a Wii-U emulator for PC?
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Deferred shader engines are notorious for being memory intensive. Looks like DICE swaps in multiple render targets from main memory.
http://www.slideshare.net/DICEStudio/spubased-deferred-shading-in-battlefield-3-for-playstation-3
The Z buffer and the 3 multiple render targets being copied from main memory to the Cell take up 14MB at 720p just by themselves.
Deferred shading is exactly that.
Please stop this nonsense! Tell me in 1 year from now, tell me in 2 years from now, tell me in 3 years from now that games on Wii U cannot look better than current gen HD games. Your whole claim is based on LAUNCH GAMES. Can't people get their act together and start using their brains a little more?
I see your point but in three years all the next gen system will be on the market and people will be comparing it to those which won't help it either. Even if it is the launch of the system it's not crazy to expect it to out perform our current 7 year old hardware.
Deferred renderers have large framebuffer sizes, could be a problem if the CPU is taking some eDRAM, and you're also using it for shadows and textures. On 360 eDRAM is purely for the framebuffer. We also don't know if things like predicated tiling are supported.
For the fiscal year including PR and R&D perhaps.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Sounds and other assets from the game being played?
Even if, what will those people say? PS4/720 games locks "fantastic" and Wii U games look "very good?".
Don't people realizse that we've reached a point in graphical fidelity at which it's almost impossible to call a game "bad looking".
Excample. Don't we have games on PC that visually outclass PS3/360 games by quite a margin? But what does that mean? Do games like Uncharted, Halo 4 or Mario Galaxy 2 suddenly become "bad looking".
This USED to be a problem years ago on PS1, when those 3D graphics were miles away from the visuals developers or gamers dreamed about.
For example. The visual to make a rock look like a rock. With bump mapping, higher poligon counts we're at a point where a rock is so close to what we - as gamers - think a good-looking rock should look like that it won't age bad.
Same with Wii U graphics. I'm sure games like GTA 5 are possible on it. MGS5, Halo 4 no problem. Do we really need games that are PRETTIER than that. Current gen visuals (Wii U included) will not age badly.
Even if prettier PS4/720 graphics come out, they will still look very good. We also must no forget that not all video-game genres NEED super-realistic/photo realistic visuals. A Super Mario Galaxy 3, Metroid Prime 4 or Mother Hunter 5 (provided they use an entirely new engine) will STILL look FANTASTIC, eventhough they might be games out there with even higher poligon counts, shaders, effects and whatnot.
Beer Monkey
Member
I do. Even in the prettiest of current games, I'm always noticing prebaked stuff, things that don't cast shadows, and so on. We have a long way to go.
The question is how much does that lower the fun of the games your playing, to what degree? Let's say you suddenly notice an object that once didn't have a shadow and now has one. Could you tell - percentage-wise - how much better it makes the game for you? 1%, 10%, 30% ?
What if you are just one very, very, picky gamer, totally not representative of the majority of gamers out there?
Yes. Well, Galaxy looks great on Dolphin with good IQ.
Probably never (or five years at the very least).
Historically new generation hardware at the very minimum would have the best versions of ported, existing titles. Wii U a supposedly more powerful system has the very worst versions of 3rd party games.
Wasn't it quoted they are making a loss on each unit sold.
This isn't going to be calculated in the PR and R&D costs, as it can't be.
I meant right now not in 3 years.
In 3 years no one will care how Wii U games will look since new gen will obliterate anything what Wii U will do probably in year time.
As of lunch games i don't see why lunch games cannot be better than last gen games. Especially if hardware is better than last gen. Pure Raw power should help with framerate and resolution which isn't case with lunch games being worse than ps360 multiplatform titles.
I wonder where lies problem. Early API, bathwind or mabe CPU ? Or all of them ?
In a few years time, there'll be no point in buying the WiiU if you play mostly third party games because of the obvious hardware performance disparity, as you put it. I really can't see third parties putting much effort into the controller if the next PS4 or XB3 don't have some sort of comparable functionality (resource priority).
In the end, this is a console meant for people who are invested in Nintendo-specific franchises.
Of course, there'll be exceptions to the rule with certain third parties, especially in Japan who will be making exclusive games for WiiU. The last story comes to mind.
If I were even slightly interested in Nintendo's first party offerings, I'd snag the system. The first HD Nintendo console... has a nice ring to it not to mention the promise of high fidelity 1st party titles with visuals that'll be unlike anything before on Nintendo system.
With that amount of power i don't see many ports of next gen games being on Wii U.
It is same situation as Wii. If anything it will be treated by industry like PS3 and XBOX360 giving shoddy last gen ports.
I don't think people who bought Wii U want it to be Zelda box.
Indeed. I was hoping that the Wii U could be my primary next gen console. I'm not much of a graphics whore, so even if Orbis/Durango games had to be downgraded, I really wouldn't have minded, provided they were still playable.
That ain't happening.
It's still strange that Nintendo is somehow taking a loss on this thing. A 4GB Xbox 360 costs 199 and profits, but an 8GB Wii U costs 299 and doesn't? How much does the gamepad really cost? Apples and oranges I know, but still.
Historically, new generation hardware would be about 8 times as powerful. Obviously, launch ports would look better. Just dump that game and add some effects, done.
WiiU isn't 8 times more powerful. Maybe only 1.5, maybe 2.5 times overall, who knows. So obviously if you are porting last generation Xbox 360 games (which are already pushing the hardware a lot more than xbox360 launch games after 6 years of expertise and experience) to WiiU, by small B-teams, on a tight schedule, not having any experience on the hardware, obviously, you are going to run into problems.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Let's wait and see if we can figure out the hardware and all it's upsides and downsides. So far it looks like the GPU's composition and architecture is newer than the 360/PS3 but it's literally choked everywhere else.
Let's not blame 'shoddy ports' when we don't actually know where the slowdown is coming from. We just know it should handle geometry and pass certain effects much better, but everything else can be reliant on things we dont know yet.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I think we still have quite a lot to go and let's look at one of them specifically. I think that we have a lot to go in terms of image quality. The amount of surface aliasing (dynamically shaded surfaces), edge aliasing of thin polygons, etc... In terms of IQ I preferred Xbox 1's Morrowind water from a distance compared to Oblivion or Skyrim on modern consoles. Solving this kind of issues is not cheap, but increases the amount of enjoyment some games can give quite a bit by making the visuals a lot more pleasing to the eyes in the long term.
Also, there is more to use higher and higher performance HW than just how well you are shading a certain scene and how dynamic your objects really are (in some genres this might matter quite a bit in terms of delivering a more and more immersive atmosphere). Think about a GTA with a really realistic scale, think about a simulation making more and more of those people/NPC active at some singular or team task... I believe that there are ways to waste tons of cycles on things that do not matter or where you cannot really see a difference anymore, but I do not think that console HW only provide a canvas that somebody will surely find a good way to use it to deliver an uniquely fresh experience that was not possible or that it was not doable with limited resources.
More performance and better tools can allow more and more people who are not big technical experts or super experienced artists that know how to optimize code and assets to compete on ideas even though they might rely on cheaper and less optimized middleware compared to big teams.
AstroNut325
Member
We are seeing the point of diminishing returns. No not in terms of visual fidelity (not even close... despite what Nintendo fans like to believe) but in terms of advancements for console prices that fall below the inflation adjusted value of their successors. There is only so much tech you can cram in for a price tag of $300. And that has to include the BOM, manufacturing labor, R&D, and marketing and probably many other things as well.
Dorfdad
Gold Member
Man GAF is so jaded. Regardless of your opinion this is a major bump over the Wii in terms of quality an performance.
Also a ton of you seem to equate All these specs straight against PC specs which you shouldn't. Granted its a barometer but you have no idea how it works internally an your bashing a system based on your faulty info.
Is it Going to wipe the floor with current gens probably not but its a major upgrade over the Wii and its a great second system.
All you haters can go kiss bowsers ass
Also a ton of you seem to equate All these specs straight against PC specs which you shouldn't. Granted its a barometer but you have no idea how it works internally an your bashing a system based on your faulty info.
Is it Going to wipe the floor with current gens probably not but its a major upgrade over the Wii and its a great second system.
All you haters can go kiss bowsers ass
Yes it is a very large step up from the Wii. So is the Xbox 360, a 7 year old console. So is the original Ipad, a handheld tablet.
pieatorium
Member
So your concerns, are they eased?
At the bolded: What do you mean? How could it NOT be a upgrade? Problem is, it's potentially not the upgrade everyone was expecting. And what does great "second system" mean? Do you mean "first party Nintendo box"? Because if not everything is a great second system.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
lol, amusing that in a few short weeks we've gone from seeing "The Wii-U will hold its own against the Durango/Orbis" to "Well, It's a step up from the Wii". I think the new replacement for the TI-84+ is a step up from the Wii, Go Texas Instruments!
civilstrife
Member
Yes of course the new twins will outclass WiiU.
But I'm calling it now: 720 and PS4 launch games will be graphically disappointing and people bashing Wii U's graphics are going to be eating crow for a while.
Save for one or two standout titles, 720 and PS4 games are going to look like PC ports of current generation games for at least a year after launch.
But I'm calling it now: 720 and PS4 launch games will be graphically disappointing and people bashing Wii U's graphics are going to be eating crow for a while.
Save for one or two standout titles, 720 and PS4 games are going to look like PC ports of current generation games for at least a year after launch.
[Clark Gable]
Banned
I was waiting for a dorfderp post, backpedaling I see.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
You say that like it's a bad thing.
Did people ever really think that? Im certain we all knew from the outset the Wii U would not be comparable to those beasts. Better than current gen by some stretch, yes, but never holding its own against those.
Is it bad that I'm OK with this. This is what I have been expecting. I do most of my gaming on PC and buy Nintendo systems for Nintendo games and the Japanese gems that always find themselves on their systems.
I do wish they pushed a little harder, but at the end of the day. Mario, Zelda and hopefully Metroid will be awesome.
Me_Marcadet
Member
It would be amazing, just like if wii u would be running ps360 games with stable framerate and 2xmsaa would be awesome.
Backfoggen
Banned
Concern status not eased I see.
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