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Android, iOS, WP8 phone debate thread

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Does the lumina have a notification led? That of course would be another solution, assign the tiles colours and that colour will flash. There are loads of things MS could do with this to make notifications more useful, I'm sure they will improve it soon
 
Don't want to shit up the iPhone 5 thread, but there's actually a good Verge article explaining disappointment with the iPhone 5: The iPhone 5 forecast: a predictable 73 degrees and sunny

"Boring" doesn't quite encapsulate what's happening with the iPhone 5, though. The new iPhone is timid. Apple has taken very few — if any — real chances. It's a safe, pleasant, and sunny 73 degrees on the iPhone.

As we noted in our hands-on with the iPhone 5, the thinner and taller design feels incredibly light yet still very sturdy. Apple has tossed in the usual assortment of spec bumps: a faster processor, improved camera, and a larger screen. That last item is a bigger change than usual for Apple, but it actually does very little with the extra space from a software perspective. Moreover, compared to the other smartphones, Apple's small adjustment in screen size still leaves its smartphone at the bottom end of the spectrum.

The innovation on third party UIs comes in part because developers have near total control over their UI in their apps, free to play around and try new things. Apple, however, doesn't seem to be willing to take any risks at all with the core UI of iOS. Why is that? It could be that the company still believes it nailed it with the iPhone's original UI, but perhaps there's a better explanation.

When Microsoft was at the height of its Windows dominance, it found itself caught in a cycle of sameness with Windows. The need to keep backwards compatibility and the fear that big changes would upset its user base led Microsoft to keep Windows looking the same and behaving the same. It packed on feature after feature, ultimately resulting in a confusing mess of mixed UI metaphors and arcane functionality. The trend culminated in Vista, where Microsoft tried to square the circle of innovating on UI while keeping app functionality the same. It didn't work, and because of the problems in Vista the OS was widely rejected.

Apple has supplanted Microsoft as both the biggest and the most influential company in consumer electronics and technology. Like Microsoft in the 90s and early 2000s, it is taking a very conservative approach to updating its core UI in the name of accessibility and consistency. Apple is keeping the iPhone in a very familiar and safe zone, but does it really need to? It’s risky, taking something that’s massively successful and trying something new and different with it. Most companies don’t do it, but Apple has a reputation built making those kinds of bets. Perhaps it doesn’t deserve that reputation anymore.

Some of that old Microsoftian "don’t mess with success" myopia seems to have affected Apple, though. Success and innovation are not the same thing, and once a company stops driving for continuous innovation, it can be a difficult trait to rekindle should business ever slow. Just ask Microsoft, which has spent years rebooting Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.

For the record, I was mostly disappointed with the iPhone 5 reveal because I'm somewhat used to seeing something new that will drive innovation/competition in the industry. It's weird for Apple to do nothing like that at one of these events.
 
Flash is still useful, and I won't be updating my fw to anything that doesn't support it (unless there's an unofficial option). Tonnes of lesser video sites still use Flash, or at least, the Flash alternative is still better in video quality comparative to the HTML5 option. A lot of promo and photography websites (portfolios) also still Flash, so yes, whilst it's dying out, there's still use for it.
Do you really find it useful on your phone, though? The sites that only support Flash are not likely to be sites I would ever use on my phone.

On a tablet? Flash would be more useful, but on a phone I just can't see it. At this point I never actually run into the problem any more. I haven't seen a site pop-up informing me I need Flash Player for a while now.
 
Does the lumina have a notification led? That of course would be another solution, assign the tiles colours and that colour will flash. There are loads of things MS could do with this to make notifications more useful, I'm sure they will improve it soon

The current range don't, and I don't think the new ones do either.

I think you answered your own question.

Might as well just get the 920. Camera isn't quite as good but it's a far superior phone.
 
For the record, I was mostly disappointed with the iPhone 5 reveal because I'm somewhat used to seeing something new that will drive innovation/competition in the industry. It's weird for Apple to do nothing like that at one of these events.

There are always features for the competitors to steal after an iPhone event. It's weird cause this one seems like it was about what Apple took from its competitors instead.
 
Don't want to shit up the iPhone 5 thread, but there's actually a good Verge article explaining disappointment with the iPhone 5: The iPhone 5 forecast: a predictable 73 degrees and sunny







For the record, I was mostly disappointed with the iPhone 5 reveal because I'm somewhat used to seeing something new that will drive innovation/competition in the industry. It's weird for Apple to do nothing like that at one of these events.
I don't think Apple will have much incentive to change though as iPhone 5 will probably be it's most successful product out of the gate. I mean, why have lower margins that risk lower sales?
 
If you don't care that much for the camera and for having the best screen, the 820 is probably ideal. It should be significantly cheaper and the replaceable shells are really amazing. With the 820 you don't really need any other protective cases and if you want to change the color at some point, that easily possible.

It really depends on whether the local Carriers bring any of those two phones around. I'm really hoping for the best, which would be the Lumia 920 (having a great camera in your pocket is always useful). Lumia 820 would also be nice, but I really don't expect to see Nokia's bad boys here, in my country.
 
There are always features for the competitors to steal after an iPhone event. It's weird cause this one seems like it was about what Apple took from its competitors instead.

Yeah iPhone 5 is really a catch-up phone rather than a innovator as Apple would love to have us believe. And yet, we still don't have things like NFC or wireless charging on the iPhone5 so you just know they will be touted as the big features in iPhone5S, but by that time the competition will get quite a big headstart with these features.
 
I don't think Apple will have much incentive to change though as iPhone 5 will probably be it's most successful product out of the gate. I mean, why have lower margins that risk lower sales?

This is absolutely true, but I think when you become an industry leader only in sales and not innovation/product, you're just trying to outrun the clock.
 
While the iPhone 5 is nice and the best iPhone yet, I'm going to stick with my 4s. There isn't enough for me to upgrade. Im still on contract and Would have to pay full fucken price if I wanted to upgrade.

I will be eligible for upgrade when the inevitable iPhone 5s is released next year and that will probably be a significant jump to the 4s.

But with 4s getting iOS 6, I don't see why I need to upgrade. The 4s is very fast, has Siri , 1080p camera, plays incredible looking games, I just do not see the reason to upgrade. Yet.
 
Don't pretend Apple and google aren't guilty of this.
Android, which google is giving away for free, is all about locking people into the google ecosystem and getting them to use google apps. google+ is a good example of that. When you create a new google account you automatically have a google+ account and when you set up a new Android device, it asks you to get on google+. They also exert a lot of pressure on the OEMs to include all those google services.
Apple is probably the guiltiest of all. They have the strictest conditions for apps such as not duplicating OS functionality (not completely sure if that's still in place. at least they now allow other browsers) and use proprietary stuff wherever they can such as Facetime, Airplay, cables.


Windows Phone is actually not bad at all when it comes to integrating other Microsoft products and features. Sure, it has Internet explorer in exactly the same way that iOS has Safari. It also uses bing as the main search, but it's not like you'd get the same experience if you'd just go to the google homepage. It's more deeply integrated into the OS. There's still the google search app.
Apple and google are free to offer some WP apps if they want to make their services (such as maps) accessible on the platform. They just don't.

I think Microsoft doesn't try as hard to lock people in. They offer a lot of their services on other platforms. SkyDrive is available on Android and iOS, Skype is available everywhere, Office is allegedly on its way to iOS. Things like Photosynth hit other platforms first. They even have some games like Kinectimals on iOS.
I'm aware that all of the major mobile ecosystem players are attempting to do this. I'm rather upset that Apple is cutting Google out of the iPhone which is the main reason I'm not ready to jump back to iOS (although I've seen some really cool things on a jailbroken iPhone that's intriguing to me). My only problem with WP is that I have been invested in the Google and Apple ecosystems for years. Apart from work/school, I never really used any Microsoft products, nor am I inclined to. Love got a 360 but not Xbox Live so that appeal is kind of useless to me. I find Bing inferior to Google so that isn't a draw for me. I do like the Office integration, but that isn't necessarily a must have option.

It's rather annoying. I have 3 years of memorable texts saved on my old iPhone, in addition to hordes of apps and a 40GB iTunes library. I've just gotten acclimated to using my Nexus but have had to restart everything all over. Jumping to a new platform would just be an additional hassle.

I hope WP8 does well though, as it might force apple and Google to step up there offerings. iOS6 and Jelly Bean were let downs for me.
 
iPhone is not going to lose marketshare to WP8, because Apple customers won't go away and the App advantage is very significant, but I believe WP8 can take some percentages away from Android, as apps on Android aren't as diverse or polished as iOS so WP8 has less ground to make up.
 
Do you really find it useful on your phone, though? The sites that only support Flash are not likely to be sites I would ever use on my phone.

I'm surprised folks still ask, but yeah. I wouldn't have bothered loading the APK myself personally if I didn't still run into situations here and there where Flash content is available. It doesn't have to cover 80+% of the sites I use. It can be just a handful, and I'm still going to want it. Its free, it works fine and its available. I can think of a reason why I should load it: For those few sites I come upon with flash content. However... I cannot think of a reason why I shouldn't.

Don't want to shit up the iPhone 5 thread, but there's actually a good Verge article explaining disappointment with the iPhone 5: The iPhone 5 forecast: a predictable 73 degrees and sunny


For the record, I was mostly disappointed with the iPhone 5 reveal because I'm somewhat used to seeing something new that will drive innovation/competition in the industry. It's weird for Apple to do nothing like that at one of these events.

I saw that article coming a mile away. Their video feed after the announcement was hilarious. They were trying so hard to be upbeat.

iPhone is not going to lose marketshare to WP8, because Apple customers won't go away and the App advantage is very significant, but I believe WP8 can take some percentages away from Android, as apps on Android aren't as diverse or polished as iOS so WP8 has less ground to make up.

Worldwide, the exact opposite of what you have described here is whats actually happening in real life. WP has started to gain share WW one country at a time. Its small, but its there, but its not coming at the expense of Android. We see Androids share increase dramatically. iOS falls slightly and WP gains slightly. I have no clue where people get the idea that WP will appeal to Android users more than it will iOS users. Its so incredibly obvious that this isnt the case. Looking at the two operating systems. WP is a hell of alot more close to iOS than it is Android.
 
I mean, with any single product that's this popular, a large majority are buying on brand appeal alone. I'm not saying anyone on Gaf does, but a lot of people do.
 
Worldwide, the exact opposite of what you have described here is whats actually happening in real life. WP has started to gain share WW one country at a time. Its small, but its there, but its not coming at the expense of Android. We see Androids share increase dramatically. iOS falls slightly and WP gains slightly.
Who is we? How can we know your numbers are reliable? If anything, iPad is supposed to push those iOS numbers even higher. Besides, the WP push hasn't started yet.

I have no clue where people get the idea that WP will appeal to Android users more than it will iOS users. Its so incredibly obvious that this isnt the case.
People who want a smooth non glitchy OS but don't want to locked into Apple and want to choose their phones from a variety of handset manufacturers.
 
Who is we? How can we know your numbers are reliable? If anything, iPad is supposed to push those iOS numbers even higher. Besides, the WP push hasn't started yet.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505250_162-57511586/worldwide-market-share-for-smartphones/

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/worldwide-market-share-smartphones-220747882--finance.html

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/g...ercent-worldwide-smartphone-market-idc-992551

http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/03/shocker-smartphone-users-like-bigger-screens/

kantar-august-2012-market-share.jpg


Thats where I got my information. Where did you get yours?

People who want a smooth non glitchy OS but don't want to locked into Apple and want to choose their phones from a variety of handset manufacturers.

Its nice to say things..... but again, reality doesn't seem to agree. Worldwide I see WP marketshare gains primarily in the places where iOS loses marketshare. Meanwhile Android pretty much gains tremendously nearly everywhere. Even in the U.S., a place where iOS makes a marketshare gain, we see windows lose share. But where iOS loses or is nearly completely stagnant, the majority of the time Windows phone gains.
 
Thats where I got my information. Where did you get yours?
None of those numbers indicate that WP is taking marketshare away from iOS. If anything, Android is taking marketshare away from everyone else. Now if there was a territory where Android roughly remained the same and iOS and WP moved in opposite directions, you'd have a point. How do you know that Android would not be even higher without WP? How do you conclude that it took marketshare away from iOS and not Android?

Therefore your claim that WP is taking marketshare away from iOS is unfounded.
 
None of those numbers indicate that WP is taking marketshare away from iOS. If anything, Android is taking marketshare away from everyone else. Now if there was a territory where Android roughly remained the same and iOS and WP moved in opposite directions, you'd have a point. How do you know that Android would not be even higher without WP? How do you conclude that it took marketshare away from iOS and not Android?

Therefore your claim that WP is taking marketshare away from iOS is unfounded.

Pretty sure there was a brief period in China where WP was growing and iOS was shriking/stayed still and Android just maintained.
 
With China Mobile supposedly onboard with the Lumia 920, they have a good chance at nabbing a lot more marketshare.

And I think it was April or May when WP overtook iOS in China, though I'm not sure what it looks like now.
 
Pretty sure there was a brief period in China where WP was growing and iOS was shriking/stayed still and Android just maintained.

Yeah, but I don't think Ill bother with him. Took a glimpse into his post history and I'm pretty sure no actual factual data will even trip him up, let alone slow him down.

Do your think coldfoot. Tell us all whats really going on.

With China Mobile supposedly onboard with the Lumia 920, they have a good chance at nabbing a lot more marketshare.

And I think it was April or May when WP overtook iOS in China, though I'm not sure what it looks like now.

Yeah I just caught this news in the WP OT too, WP is definitely about to jump in china marketshare for sure.
 
Pretty sure there was a brief period in China where WP was growing and iOS was shriking/stayed still and Android just maintained.
I am posting based on what cipherr linked and there is nothing in his links or posts indicating this. Now if you have reliable Chinese marketshare numbers please share them with us by all means before making such claims.
 
In Windows Phone 7 and 7.5, the lack of a notification center did suck.

But now with the ability to have much smaller tiles in WP8, it'll be very easy to pin anything with notifications like that to the start screen. I'm starting to come around to the idea of not needing a notification center.
 
I am posting based on what cipherr linked and there is nothing in his links or posts indicating this. Now if you have reliable Chinese marketshare numbers please share them with us by all means before making such claims.

I don't find Forbes to be super reliable.

They were apparently doing ok in Russia too?
 
I don't find Forbes to be super reliable.

Original assertion by Cipherr: WP is taking away marketshare from iOS and not Android.
Now, how can it do that in China, when it's sold on a network that iPhone doesn't work on? That only says consumers prefer a cell phone that they can use on their network, and NOTHING about preferring WP over iOS.

They were apparently doing ok in Russia too?
Does not have OS comparison between 2011 and 2012, so you can't deduce anything from this either. How do you know both WM + Android + iOS all did not take away marketshare from Symbian compared to 2011?
 
iPhone is not going to lose marketshare to WP8, because Apple customers won't go away and the App advantage is very significant, but I believe WP8 can take some percentages away from Android, as apps on Android aren't as diverse or polished as iOS so WP8 has less ground to make up.

It seems to me that everyone who is leaving the BB and Symbrian world of "ancient Smartphone OS" usually will pick up a iPhone first. To them iOS is alot "easily" to adapt. And I agree with this mentality.

As for people who pickup WP7/WP8 usually are people who got sick of both iOS and Android (in that case they are not moving to WP8, they are using multiple smartphones at the same time), or people who got burnt by bad Android phones. What I am saying is that WP7/8 seem to have a very narrow demographic.

I think MS need to do something to attract the casual users.
 
I don't find Forbes to be super reliable.
Microsoft retracted that MS employee's statement:
http://thenextweb.com/asia/2012/05/...es-market-share-in-china-rocket-to-16-report/

The Woori data certainly pours cold water on claims that sales of Windows Phone 7 devices have seen Microsoft overtake Apple in the country.

Microsoft backed away from media reports — which originated from comments attributed to Michel van der Bel, its COO for Greater China — providing a non-committal statement which suggested that there had been a miscommunication.
 
IMHO Stock jellybean >>>>>> wp8 and iOS. Android also has the best browsers (chrome >>>>> safari and super shitty ie. Dolphin beta >>>>>>> safari and shitty ie. Opera mobile >>>>>> safari and shitty ie ect.) It offers the most customization (although stock jellybean is by far the best looking mobile os is IMO.)

Edit: on android you also aren't tied to any stupid syncing software.
 
I have a lot of cognitive dissonance about the dominance of iOS as gaming platform, I think WP8 can catch up to it quite quickly with the boost that Windows 8 will give (fueling devs to release for both, kind of like WP8 gets overflow benefits) but for now, if you are at all a hipster, rich and like to feed on games like you are binge eating it is hard to argue against iOS as your top choice. For someone like my mom who only cares about Facebook it is much easier for me to argue that WP8 makes as much sense as iPhone. Android, I really don't know, maybe people who are not afraid of lots of customization or want freedom about what they do with their phone (hack it, download porn, whatever)
 
And then in October with Xperia T as it beats both One X and S3 in benchmarks.

I don't get the focus on benchmarks with mobile phones. I've owned iOS and WP devices, and they all were fluid at almost every moment. Android should be the same at this point.

IMHO Stock jellybean >>>>>> wp8 and iOS. Android also has the best browsers (chrome >>>>> safari and super shitty ie. Dolphin beta >>>>>>> safari and shitty ie. Opera mobile >>>>>> safari and shitty ie ect.) It offers the most customization (although stock jellybean is by far the best looking mobile os is IMO.)

Edit: on android you also aren't tied to any stupid syncing software.

"Super shitty ie" is more of a knee jerk reaction than a valid opinion at this point. It's a serviceable browser, I haven't had any problems with it so far in daily use. Same with Safari Mobile.

I do agree that more choices are a nice thing, though.
 
I have a lot of cognitive dissonance about the dominance of iOS as gaming platform, I think WP8 can catch up to it quite quickly with the boost that Windows 8 will give (fueling devs to release for both, kind of like WP8 gets overflow benefits) but for now, if you are at all a hipster, rich and like to feed on games like you are binge eating it is hard to argue against iOS as your top choice. For someone like my mom who only cares about Facebook it is much easier for me to argue that WP8 makes as much sense as iPhone. Android, I really don't know, maybe people who are not afraid of lots of customization or want freedom about what they do with their phone (hack it, download porn, whatever)
It's all about market share of users using app stores. Most games are by indie devs who can't afford multiplatform support. Thus iOS is the default.

Windows 8 won't help things, from what I seen almost entirely the indie smartphone game development community use Macs exclusively. Even the android devs.
 
I have a lot of cognitive dissonance about the dominance of iOS as gaming platform, I think WP8 can catch up to it quite quickly with the boost that Windows 8 will give (fueling devs to release for both, kind of like WP8 gets overflow benefits) but for now, if you are at all a hipster, rich and like to feed on games like you are binge eating it is hard to argue against iOS as your top choice. For someone like my mom who only cares about Facebook it is much easier for me to argue that WP8 makes as much sense as iPhone. Android, I really don't know, maybe people who are not afraid of lots of customization or want freedom about what they do with their phone (hack it, download porn, whatever)

You don't need to hack your phone in order to customise it in Android. Also Playstation Mobile seems to be the answer in the Android world.

I don't get the focus on benchmarks with mobile phones. I've owned iOS and WP devices, and they all were fluid at almost every moment. Android should be the same at this point.



"Super shitty ie" is more of a knee jerk reaction than a valid opinion at this point. It's a serviceable browser, I haven't had any problems with it so far in daily use. Same with Safari Mobile.

I do agree that more choices are a nice thing, though.

It simply shows how much performance was achieved from the chip in the phone. It's a nice indication and without proper reviews for the Xperia T I was forced to use benchmarks. It'll show you how well the phone will perform when doing mutli-tasking or playing games etc. Also the fact that Xperia T is meant to sell for less than Galaxy S3 while having better benchmarks is kinda impressive.
 
You don't need to hack your phone in order to customise it in Android. Also Playstation Mobile seems to be the answer in the Android world.



It simply shows how much performance was achieved from the chip in the phone. It's a nice indication and without proper reviews for the Xperia T I was forced to use benchmarks. It'll show you how well the phone will perform when doing mutli-tasking or playing games etc. Also the fact that Xperia T is meant to sell for less than Galaxy S3 while having better benchmarks is kinda impressive.
The play station example doesnt really work since it is Sony. Of which is nearly completely irrelevant in the tech industry. They won't win the trust of the indie devs who dominate app store gaming.
 
The play station example doesnt really work since it is Sony. Of which is nearly completely irrelevant in the tech industry. They won't win the trust of the indie devs who dominate app store gaming.

It's actually Sony, HTC, Asus and Wikipad now and pretty much more partners are added eveytime Sony talks about PSM at a games show.

You don't need to win the 'trust'. You need to create easy tools, have it to be rather cheap, have a nice hassle-free process for submitting and updating the app and Sony to give a decent promotion for the titles. That's it, and they've already talked about these things. Also having a dedicated audience on Vita, however small it may be, helps.

I also wouldn't put it past Google to try to launch a proper game center on Android, especially with the gradual transformation of the Play Store.
 
kantar-august-2012-market-share.jpg


Thats where I got my information. Where did you get yours?



Its nice to say things..... but again, reality doesn't seem to agree. Worldwide I see WP marketshare gains primarily in the places where iOS loses marketshare. Meanwhile Android pretty much gains tremendously nearly everywhere. Even in the U.S., a place where iOS makes a marketshare gain, we see windows lose share. But where iOS loses or is nearly completely stagnant, the majority of the time Windows phone gains.

Eh, looking at those numbers I think what is happening is that owners of Symbian Nokia phones are sticking with Nokia and getting the new Nokia WP phones. If anything the numbers seem to indicate that Nokia is actually losing marketshare in the transation to WP, as some Symbian owners chose Android over WP. So, yes, WP is gaining marketshare but I don't think it's at the expense of either Android or iOS...

(And I say that as a longtime Nokia fanboy, currently rocking the awesome Meego-powered N9. After having been very skeptical of WP, I'm slowly warming up to it and with WP8 they seem to have fixed most of my qualms with it.)
 
I love it too, I just can't do it. I feel like a lot of people think like that too unfortunately, but I hope it's a great success.

For me its not really the design of the chassis that I like. Im rather indifferent on that. But the tech. Fuck me man I want that new touchscreen tech bad. Winter is around the corner and not being able to get my phone to work while wearing gloves fucking sucks. Then there is the camera tech. Removing the problem with all my photos looking like shaky cam Battlestar Galactica footage. Then the NFC capabilities which I absolutely refuse to move backwards on. I love it and Im not buying another phone that doesnt have it at this point.

Slap in a push for wireless charging mats and whatnot and it all just sounds great. I just still cannot deal with WP as a daily driver though. But they have a bitching phone. This shits heating up! Another thing I like from this year is Smartstay from Samsungs GS3. Its really nice not having your phone sleep when you are looking at something or reading something without having to set a new no sleep time. I noticed it immediately when I went back to my Galaxy Nexus. Its a great convenience to have, and you dont even notice its there until you use a phone that doesnt. Also Google Now from this year has become something I really like. Its automated traffic silent notification menu stuff is fantastic for sports scores and traffic information. Its been a pretty good year for cool ass mobile tech.
 
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