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Andy Signore's "Thor is 1 gender change my mind"

Shai-Tan

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Political psychology is an elephant in the room in discussions like this. Yes, an orientation toward a specific kind of equity likely figured in writers choices that go beyond marketability to more varied demographics. There is a kind of progressive evangelical fervor to writing in media in this decade that will likely be seen as such retrospectively. "The Great Awokening" draws an apt parallel between waves of evangelical movements in the past and secular forms of religion. It won't be the first or last time comics and comics related media were swept up in cultural currents - think 50s conformism, anti-communism, and the comics code. Get comfortable with fantasy parallels with what's fashionable in political activism on social media because it's not dying out any time soon when the left are frustrated they've lost political power to a party that panders to racist and xenophobic impulses of the more rural, conservative, ethnocentric white part of the electorate.
 

Shai-Tan

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Maybe if he didn't have such a shitty looking beard he wouldn't look so out of place. Looked like a bad cosplay.
Idris Elba gets a free pass to play any role he likes because he's an excellent actor. I can see how some would be irked by altering every civilization drawing on history and mythology into a conveniently cosmopolitan empire but that's the reality of media in America, a cosmopolitan state exercising soft power, cultural influence through its citizens.
 

Azurro

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Did you even read anything I wrote? Did I miss a part in Thor where they said they created the Nordic people to look like them or some shit, because they didn't, Thor flat out says they're just beings from another world and that's it. Just because they have similar names doesn't mean shit.
You are trying to get away on a silly technicality. Yes, sure, they are beings from another world....that just so happen are heavily based on Nordic myths, have characters named after Nordic gods and pretty much everything there is to their story is adapted from that Nordic mythology.

Yet the movie takes all of that, and makes the people in that world look like Pedro, Dopinder, Lau Han and Malik from the 7-11 open right now, except with a robe. That's... what's the word SJW people like to use? Ah, right, cultural appropriation.

Those aren't Asgardians, come on, don't be ridiculous. You are only ok with it because it's the myths of Nordic people that get fucked over.
 
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Shai-Tan

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You are trying to get away on a silly technicality. Yes, sure, they are beings from another world....that just so happen are heavily based on Nordic myths, have characters named after Nordic gods and pretty much everything there is to their story is adapted from that Nordic mythology.

Yet the movie takes all of that, and makes the people in that world look like Pedro, Dopinder, Lau Han and Malik from the 7-11 open right now, except with a robe. That's... what's the word SJW people like to use? Ah, right, cultural appropriation.

Those aren't Asgardians, come on, don't be ridiculous. You are only ok with it because it's the myths of Nordic people that get fucked over.
Theres something to Anthony Appiah's observation that cosmopolitanism requires not everyone to be cosmopolitan, hence "rootless cosmopolitan" as insult but we should be wary of pride that claims cultural sovereignty on ethnocentric grounds like skin color. Race based thinking in the 18th century tenuously drew on mythology to provoke exclusionary thinking and some far right parties today or doing the same to demonize minorities. There's very little tying scandanavian peoples today to norse peoples beyond an interest in history and a general sense of place. Is it really worth being offended that global culture finds norse mythology and folklore compelling?
 

Azurro

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Theres something to Anthony Appiah's observation that cosmopolitanism requires not everyone to be cosmopolitan, hence "rootless cosmopolitan" as insult but we should be wary of pride that claims cultural sovereignty on ethnocentric grounds like skin color. Race based thinking in the 18th century tenuously drew on mythology to provoke exclusionary thinking and some far right parties today or doing the same to demonize minorities. There's very little tying scandanavian peoples today to norse peoples beyond an interest in history and a general sense of place. Is it really worth being offended that global culture finds norse mythology and folklore compelling?
You know, whenever someone tries to use lexical sugar, you never know if they are using it because it is truly a complicated technical topic that requires the use of such terminology, or they are simply attempting to hide their simple and silly arguments behind the facade and protection offered by such terms. Your point falls under the latter, actually, as even if the present Nordic people are not praying to Nordic gods and Nordic mythology is just that, mythology, that it is ok for it to be not be represented as what it is.

Your last point is equally ridiculous, as people of all cultures are fascinated by vikings, thor and the rest of the nordic myth for decades, and they didn't need to see Shaniqua and Mohinder as characters in them in order to find them likeable. I'd advise you to stop hiding behind such silly facades, as your point is not worthy of them, they rather come across as a bit arrogant and put unnecessary barriers to the conversation.
 
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sol_bad

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Those aren't Asgardians, come on, don't be ridiculous. You are only ok with it because it's the myths of Nordic people that get fucked over.
I'm personally ok with it because the films are good and I couldn't give a shit what colour an actor is or what their background is. Just like I don't give a shit when a white actor is used in an obviously not white role in older films.

I highly doubt the majority of people born and raised in Denmark, Norway, Finland, Greenland and Iceland care either.
 

Doom85

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You are trying to get away on a silly technicality. Yes, sure, they are beings from another world....that just so happen are heavily based on Nordic myths, have characters named after Nordic gods and pretty much everything there is to their story is adapted from that Nordic mythology.

Yet the movie takes all of that, and makes the people in that world look like Pedro, Dopinder, Lau Han and Malik from the 7-11 open right now, except with a robe. That's... what's the word SJW people like to use? Ah, right, cultural appropriation.

Those aren't Asgardians, come on, don't be ridiculous. You are only ok with it because it's the myths of Nordic people that get fucked over.
Ah, putting words in my mouth, acting as if you JUST KNOW my intentions, you sound like a lovely person at parties.

I mentioned before how with Gods of Egypt the problem was less having so many white people among the Egyptian gods but the actual Egyptian humans themselves particularly the lead human character. The gods though I don't have as much of an issue with because THEY'RE NOT HUMAN and you can't simply "yeah, sure" your way out of it. I didn't have a problem with either Robin Williams or Will Smith playing the Genie because he's not a human being. Hell, I know some anime fans will get butthurt about it but I don't have a problem with a white person playing Goku because he's a Saiyan not a human (just, you know, don't cast a subpar actor next time regardless of their race).

Huh, notice how in some of those instances I was perfectly fine with a white actor playing a god/alien/non-human/etc. So spare me the cheap "bleh, you're a SJW" card.

But sure, despite all the evidence to the contrary, act like I'm an asshole out to get the Nordic people. Geezus, victim complex much?

If you're actually such an opponent to so-called "cultural appropriation" by having a god/non-human be played by the "wrong" race/ethnicity, then you better have been as equally outraged when both Robin Williams and Will Smith played the Genie, a bunch of white people played Egyptian Gods, a ton of non-Greek people voiced Greek gods in Disney's Hercules or Dwayne Johnson playing Hercules, etc. Otherwise you're just being a hypocrite who just wants to whine about nothing (and even so, geezus, lighten the fuck up, again if Christians of all people can be chill about times where God was played by a woman despite the Bible constantly referring to God as Him. it's kinda sad you're throwing this much of a fuss over what Thor and co. look like).
 
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Shai-Tan

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You know, whenever someone tries to use lexical sugar, you never know if they are using it because it is truly a complicated technical topic that requires the use of such terminology, or they are simply attempting to hide their simple and silly arguments behind the facade and protection offered by such terms. Your point falls under the latter, actually, as even if the present Nordic people are not praying to Nordic gods and Nordic mythology is just that, mythology, that it is ok for it to be not be represented as what it is.
Or maybe there's more to what mythology is and its relationship to contemporary ideas. Few concerned with fidelity to such works are actually interested in classical studies or have much knowledge of history.

Your last point is equally ridiculous, as people of all cultures are fascinated by vikings, thor and the rest of the nordic myth for decades, and they didn't need to see Shaniqua and Mohinder as characters in them in order to find them likeable. I'd advise you to stop hiding behind such silly facades, as your point is not worthy of them, they rather come across as a bit arrogant and put unnecessary barriers to the conversation.
The question there was ownership or sovereignty of culture which was mentioned following the usual cultural appropriation tropes employed to take great offense at inclusion of people of color in a super hero story very loosely based on norse mythology in a universe that's a mish mash of tropes
 

CSmath22

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Or maybe there's more to what mythology is and its relationship to contemporary ideas. Few concerned with fidelity to such works are actually interested in classical studies or have much knowledge of history.



The question there was ownership or sovereignty of culture which was mentioned following the usual cultural appropriation tropes employed to take great offense at inclusion of people of color in a super hero story very loosely based on norse mythology in a universe that's a mish mash of tropes
Nobody cares that non-whites were 'included' in Thor. We simply don't think every last white character needs to be diversified. Stop being stupid and use the grey matter between your ears, boy.
 

Shai-Tan

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Nobody cares that non-whites were 'included' in Thor. We simply don't think every last white character needs to be diversified. Stop being stupid and use the grey matter between your ears, boy.
Aside from the person who was making that argument. I already addressed the other position in a post about the great awokening pointing out that social science data suggests there's something else going on beyond efforts to make media more inclusive
 

sol_bad

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Nobody cares that non-whites were 'included' in Thor. We simply don't think every last white character needs to be diversified. Stop being stupid and use the grey matter between your ears, boy.
Every last white character?
Tony, Pepper Potts, Happy, Obadiah Stane, Bruce, Betty Ross, General Ross, Natasha, Whiplash, Justin Hammer, Thor, Loki, Odin, Frigga, Sif, Fandral, Volstagg, Jane Foster, Eric Selvig, Laufy (could have been any race but they chose white dude), Steve, Bucky, Peggy, Howard Stark, Dum Dum Duggan, Hawkeye, Maria Hill, Aldrich Killian, Maya Hansen, Eric Savin, Sharon Carter, Crossbones, Batroc, Peter Quill, Rocket (could be any race but white dude), Ronan (could be any race but white dude), Yondu (could be any race but white dude), Nebula (could be any race but white chick), Irani Rael, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Vison & Ultron (both could be any race but white dudes), Ant-Man, Wasp, Hank Pym, Cassie, Darren Cross, Peter Parker, Zemo, Everett Ross, May Parker, Doctor Strange, Christine Palmer, Nicodemus West, Kaecilius, Taserface (could be any race but white dude), Starhawk, Betty Brant, Vulture, Tinkerer, Skurge, Hela, Eitri, Thanos (could be any race but white dude), Cull Obsidian/Ebony Maw/Proxima Midnight (could be any race but white ppl), Sonny Burch, Janet Van Dyne, Captain Marvel, Talos (could be any race but white dude), Yon-Rogg, Mysterio, Red Guardian, Yelena Belova, Thena, Ikaris, Sprite.

God damn, there are a lot of white characters that have been diversified!!!!!!!
 

StifflersMum

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If you're actually such an opponent to so-called "cultural appropriation" by having a god/non-human be played by the "wrong" race/ethnicity, then you better have been as equally outraged when both Robin Williams and Will Smith played the Genie, a bunch of white people played Egyptian Gods, a ton of non-Greek people voiced Greek gods in Disney's Hercules or Dwayne Johnson playing Hercules, etc. Otherwise you're just being a hypocrite who just wants to whine about nothing (and even so, geezus, lighten the fuck up, again if Christians of all people can be chill about times where God was played by a woman despite the Bible constantly referring to God as Him. it's kinda sad you're throwing this much of a fuss over what Thor and co. look like).
I cannot be "outraged" about shit that doesn't interest me, like who the fuck is playing the genie in Aladdin.

I can safely say, though, that I thought that casting Scarlett Johansson as Motoko in Ghost in the Shell and Emma Stone in Aloha were crap moves.
 

CSmath22

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Aside from the person who was making that argument.
Nobody was making the argument you think they were.

Every last white character?
So which far-left, anti-white website did you copy/paste that from? Or did you actually spend hours looking at every minor character who ever popped up? And newsflash, when a character is blue (Yondu, Nebula, Ronin,) purple (Thanos,) metallic (Ultron,) they aren't white.
 
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Shai-Tan

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Nobody was making the argument you think they were.

yeah, just getting worked up over "cultural appropriation" of norse mythology for completely innocent reasons. not in any way a cover for political or racial resentments. it's all because those other people are ruining popular media with their hypersensitivity and victim theology
 
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sol_bad

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Nobody was making the argument you think they were.

So which far-left, anti-white website did you copy/paste that from? Or did you actually spend hours looking at every minor character who ever popped up? And newsflash, when a character is blue (Yondu, Nebula, Ronin,) purple (Thanos,) metallic (Ultron,) they aren't white.
Didn't take me hours because I remember the majority of characters.
RE coloured characters, I know they aren't "white" people. My point is that they still hired white actors and that your white actors are still safe and will still be in movies. People in here acting like every 2nd white character has been race swapped. It's cray cray.
 
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CSmath22

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Didn't take me hours because I remember the majority of characters.
RE coloured characters, I know they aren't "white" people. My point is that they still hired white actors and that your white actors are still safe and will still be in movies. People in here acting like every 2nd white character has been race swapped. It's cray cray.
It's not about 'hiring white actors.' Are you even paying attention? Because it seems like you're not. It's about white characters staying white. Male characters staying male. Straight characters staying straight. And it's weird you reference the cast of the Eternals in your post attempting to disprove me considering...



Nearly half the characters were gender swapped, with even more being race swapped (most offensive one being the gay indian playing the japanese samurai.)
 
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sol_bad

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It's funny how you mentioned me mentioning The Eternals movie because I only listed characters that stayed white. Yes, Sprite is gender swapped but still white.

I've mentioned before that Eternals is a perfectly fine series to do some race/gender swapping because it is not very well known, even within the comic book world. The very small amount of people that would be unhappy would be far outweighed by the amount of people that will see the film at the cinemas.

The Eternal characters are almost 100% white and male, they don't have a legacy or diversity like the X-Men do for example.

*EDIT*
Also, I don't know why Phastos looks white in that photo.


 
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