2Smashed4U
Banned
But they're still afforded the legal right to assemble freely.
Start cracking down on speech protections and they would be first in the crosshairs for conservative politicians for that very reason you just posted.
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Ann Coulter finds likely BFF/life partner in free-speech spat w/ Berkeley: Bill Maher
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But they're still afforded the legal right to assemble freely.
Start cracking down on speech protections and they would be first in the crosshairs for conservative politicians for that very reason you just posted.
I don't think "Nazi" means what you think it means.
And, while we're at it, a lot of people should look up what "free speech" means.
Arkage
Banned
In addition, the extreme left demands deplatforming because they view a college statement distancing itself from the lecturer as "just words." Meanwhile the lecturer is there to speak, but his or her words are powerful and destructive. It's having your cake and eating it too, where words are either the most powerful thing you can do, or the most worthless thing you can do, depending on which side you're on.
Deplatforming also means you never get the chance to actually expose ideas as fraudulent or irrational to begin with. The conversation never happens, and each ideology keeps gathering up followers in the bubble. This is not how to kill bad ideas; they don't need college venues to propogate, and in fact a college venue of educated students to rationally debate is probably a more hostile environment then they ever typically encounter. Instead, the dialogue becomes a list of what names you can call the opponent, and honestly, nobody is going to give a shit when you're using "they're a racist Nazi" as your entire defense.
She should be allowed to speak at Berkeley and the protestors should be allowed to make it as hard as possible for her to speak (without doing anything violent or destructive).
Berkeley's a public institution, and unlike Milo she doesn't have a tendency to direct harassment campaigns. But that doesn't mean she and her supporters can't get called out for being the scum that they are.
Berkeley's a public institution, and unlike Milo she doesn't have a tendency to direct harassment campaigns. But that doesn't mean she and her supporters can't get called out for being the scum that they are.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Did people not know they've been friends? I thought it was well known.
Yea I thought it was the book versions of a Paris Hilton and John Stewart hookup in the mansion scene. It's been awhile since I've read that book.
Lord Frieza
Member
Neo-Nazism, eurogenics and racism shouldn't just accepted as "different views." But the real irony is that what you suggest is exactly what is happening, but it's apparently too extreme for some
Lord Frieza
Member
Wake up call: This is already happening. A lot of legislation has been introduced through several states to do just this to protesters, particularly targeting left wing groups like BLM.
2Smashed4U
Banned
Okay? So let's accelerate then is your proposal?
Lord Frieza
Member
That wasn't a solution, it was a wake up call that the thing you're warning about happening if Neo-Nazis aren't given their due at colleges is already happening. No matter how much you want to stick your head in the sand, we are in the midst of cultural war.
No, what they're saying is that it's going to happen anyway, so let's grab the bull by the horns instead of getting blindsided like we got with Trump.
2Smashed4U
Banned
I'm aware. I also never said that we weren't in the middle of a cultural war.
I don't even know what that entails. We grab the bull by the horns and do, what exactly? Get hate speech laws to prevent Ann Coulter from speaking at a college through a government that gives negative shits about such things?
Lord Frieza
Member
You may not have said it, but your rhetoric sure implies it.
Orthogonal
Member
Yes, we know what it meams. So let's all have infantile tantrums because people say words we don't like.
2Smashed4U
Banned
If you wanna put words in my mouth, then whatever I guess.
Bill Maher is the conservatives favorite "liberal".
To further his point however lets return to this:
Are you as active and as energized about the legislation that has been introduced as you are about Ann Coulter getting a chance to speak at Berkeley in this thread?
Seriously asking. Because it would be typical if you weren't. Somehow there's a lot of people and pages and pages of discussion when some right wing nutjob wants to go spew damn near hate speech at a college and has to move their date, but radio fucking silence in threads detailing the GOP literally trying to make protesting illegal.
Republicans move to criminalize disruptive protests in multiple states
AZ GOP Fascists Vote To Debate Bill That Treats Protests As Organized Crime
WA State Sen Ericksen wants to make "illegal protests" a felony
Im just saying it gets real "spooky" the way those threads that show an entire political party literally trying to legislate this thing you seem so afraid of are ghost towns of the same 6 posters conversing about the topic.... then when Milo wants to go on Transphobic rants at some College campus you guys spring forth by the dozens to tell us about Saint Slippery Slope.
To further his point however lets return to this:
Are you as active and as energized about the legislation that has been introduced as you are about Ann Coulter getting a chance to speak at Berkeley in this thread?
Seriously asking. Because it would be typical if you weren't. Somehow there's a lot of people and pages and pages of discussion when some right wing nutjob wants to go spew damn near hate speech at a college and has to move their date, but radio fucking silence in threads detailing the GOP literally trying to make protesting illegal.
Republicans move to criminalize disruptive protests in multiple states
AZ GOP Fascists Vote To Debate Bill That Treats Protests As Organized Crime
WA State Sen Ericksen wants to make "illegal protests" a felony
Im just saying it gets real "spooky" the way those threads that show an entire political party literally trying to legislate this thing you seem so afraid of are ghost towns of the same 6 posters conversing about the topic.... then when Milo wants to go on Transphobic rants at some College campus you guys spring forth by the dozens to tell us about Saint Slippery Slope.
TheLaughingStock
Member
Are conservative politicians really waiting for liberals to start cracking down on speech that they don't like: https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/where-protests-flourish-anti-protest-bills-follow
I don't think they're waiting around sitting on their hands. They'll keep trying to chill protests until eventually only the courts will be the last line standing in the way. Conservatives already want BLM to shut up and stay out of sight.
2Smashed4U
Banned
Don't start throwing strawmen at me, I'm not some rando Neogaf-moderate "both sides!" type for your argument thanks, and yes I have spent a lot of words on these bills elsewhere.
Again, I am very aware of this. And the last thing we should do is HELP them accomplish that goal, FFS!
Yes, yes... Just like his cohorts- believes in BLM, white privilege, abortions, abhors organized religion, decries the military industrial complex, calls out mandatory minimums and US prison structure, believes in gay rights, legalizing marijuana, universal healthcare, equal pay among genders, global climate change (and science in general).
Totes a Republican, guys.
Some of you need to remove your head from your asses.
Arkage
Banned
Didn't you get the memo that there was a litmus test, and failing a single criteria condemns you as a "conservative" enemy? The left seems more willing than ever to not only ignore moderates as a lost cause, but actively attack obvious liberals as enemy operatives. It's like they're purposely trying to reduce their potential voter coalition in the name of purity tests. Good luck with that strategy in a democracy.
This is why people make fun of liberals.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Berkeley is a public institution and as such they cannot stop Ann Coulter from gathering at the courtyard with a mic and speakers and telling the world that liberals should be killed to set an example to the rest (she actually said this btw).
Berkeley however is not obligated as a public institution to host her in a professional manner by giving her a venue and seating for her audience. That does not infringe on her freedom of speech in anyway.
The fact we're 13 pages in (at 100 ppp) and people still can't grasp this simple as fuck concept is sad.
That's not damning at all. People make fun of for everything.
Get pepper sprayed.
Hurr durr Liberals
Demand people use base respect towards transpeople
Hurr durr Liberals
Stop people for making fun of others for things out of their control
Hurr durr Liberals
We didn't get the gains we got by listening to the people who made fun of us.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
This is a guy who is okay with Milo because he's a "firebrand". What do you have to do to lose cred?
Arkage
Banned
I really don't give a shit about his "cred" if he keeps voting Democrat and encourages others to do so.
RoninChaos
Member
Right. You either believe in free speech or you don't. Coulter is an idiot and says some really hateful shit but, again, you either believe in free speech or you don't.
old manatee
Banned
lol Ann Coulter has a constitutional right to not have her speaking engagement rescheduled.
SolidSnakex
Member
Cred in what sense? Being a liberal? The guy basically has no views that align with the right. Even his views on Islam aren't with the right. He's already spoken out against Trump's ban as well as things like Austria's recent ban on the burqa. I really don't know what your definition of Democrat or liberal would need to be in order for him not to be described as one.
Its really funny. Especially when asking about someone's feeling on this matter gets me accused of 'strawmanning' when as far as I can tell, the only thing happening here is Ann having a speech rescheduled. No one is actually taking her constitutional rights away at all. Yet all this fanfare. I continue to look at the people who pump this shit up sideways asf. Y'all have earned it.
Supporting trans people is something someone would need to do for me to consider them liberal.
Lord Frieza
Member
I wouldn't call Maher a liberal? I'd probably call him a left-leaning moderate.
Okay, feel free to go around saying you're going to kill Trump and see what happens
Okay, feel free to go around saying you're going to kill Trump and see what happens
Muffdraul
Member
He's like a Republican who invites other Republicans onto his show for the express purpose of making them and their views look ridiculous. Mm hmm. Yep.
old manatee
Banned
First the liberals came for the O'Reilly Factor, and I did not speak out
Because I was not Bill O'Reilly.
Then the PC police came for that one Ann Coulter speaking engagement, and I did not speak out
Because I don't even live near Berkeley.
Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me, because they had already been deported by the Trump Administration.
Because I was not Bill O'Reilly.
Then the PC police came for that one Ann Coulter speaking engagement, and I did not speak out
Because I don't even live near Berkeley.
Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me, because they had already been deported by the Trump Administration.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Totally worked for Milo
yeah I thought he's a fascist
nothing like a good Bill Maher thread in the morning to start the day
If you can't understand why some liberals don't really like Maher then I cant really help you.
There can be a total of 8 issues for example
Just because someone agrees with you politically on 7 out of 8 of those issues doesn't mean that person earns your favor and respect on some sort of bastardized "majority rules" system. Sometimes those 8 issues carry different 'weights'. Agreeing with me on everything on that list, but holding Bills disgusting views on Trans Rights makes him as a whole a no-go for me.
Ill appreciate his vote for what would likely be my same candidate in an election, but I don't have to like him, watch his show, or tolerate his shit when it comes to that 8th issue. In Bills case, the specific topics that he leans towards the 'middle' and right on are so fucking abhorrent that many liberals are not fond of him.
Now numerically on the issues? Sure, Maher is certainly liberal on today's spectrum. In anger some people will claim otherwise but he's very clearly meeting that threshold today. Still doesn't mean he is owed favor though. This is especially the case when the spectrum for politics is in a eventual leftwards lurch anyway.
There can be a total of 8 issues for example
- UHC
- Abortion
- Equal Pay
- Police Reform
- Education
- Money in Politics
- Trans Rights
- Environmental Issues
Just because someone agrees with you politically on 7 out of 8 of those issues doesn't mean that person earns your favor and respect on some sort of bastardized "majority rules" system. Sometimes those 8 issues carry different 'weights'. Agreeing with me on everything on that list, but holding Bills disgusting views on Trans Rights makes him as a whole a no-go for me.
Ill appreciate his vote for what would likely be my same candidate in an election, but I don't have to like him, watch his show, or tolerate his shit when it comes to that 8th issue. In Bills case, the specific topics that he leans towards the 'middle' and right on are so fucking abhorrent that many liberals are not fond of him.
Now numerically on the issues? Sure, Maher is certainly liberal on today's spectrum. In anger some people will claim otherwise but he's very clearly meeting that threshold today. Still doesn't mean he is owed favor though. This is especially the case when the spectrum for politics is in a eventual leftwards lurch anyway.
SolidSnakex
Member
Conservatives are literally the reason why Politically Incorrect was cancelled. They'd been looking for a reason to get him fired because of how vocally he was in his criticism of Christianity among other issues, and his comment about 9/11 and lobbing missiles finally gave them that opportunity. But you think they like him?
Lord Frieza
Member
His views about Islam align pretty well with the right, actually. He's less aggressive about it, but his insistance on lumping ISIS and Islam together plays into that narrative, and it's culturally tone deaf.
He is obviously on the side of the right with this college stuff.
He also seems pretty apathetic toward LGBTQ rights too.
benicillin
Banned
If they didn't they wouldn't go on his show so often. Maher is a popular "liberal" among conservatives and self-professed 'libertarians' because he's an islamaphobe who spends all his time complaining about PC culture.
Yes. They like him for specific uses because people are complex and not robots. They like him because the hot issues right now are Islamophobia and Trans rights. Two issues that are currently literal core issues TODAY which is a big difference from what would have been at the forefront of their minds way back in 2003 or whenever PI was cancelled.
As such they thoroughly enjoy trotting him out as an example on those two issues specifically because he leans right on them.
https://www.theodysseyonline.com/bill-maher-becoming-too-conservative-for-progressive-millennials
They don't have to "like" him to see how he can be used to their benefit. And boy oh boy have they noticed that with the current climate on those two issues specifically, they can find some use for him. This isn't some foreign difficult to understand phenomena:
GOP voters warm to Russia, Putin, WikiLeaks, poll finds
The entire point of politics discussion panels is to represent both sides so I don't know what the fuck you're talking about with "well they must like him because they go on his show".
If you want to stay in a liberal bubble, fine, but stepping out of it does not make someone some traitor turncoat.
Giving a platform to people like Milo and not even challenging them does.
shinra-bansho
Member
SolidSnakex
Member
His views on this particular subject are no different than the ACLU's, and I don't think anyone would describe them as some conservative group. They're hated by conservatives.
Now, his views on LGBT issues are definitely weak, specifically when it comes to people who are transgender. From listening to him, I don't get the impression that he'd ever support laws against them LGBT community, but his stance isn't as rock solid as it should be. In part because when it comes to those that are transgender, he's still learning as his interview with Janet Mock shows. He's very ignorant on the subject. But I don't think it's in a malicious way, and certainly not in a right wing way.
If they didn't like him they wouldn't go on his show? Conservatives just like liberals will go on any show they're invited. It has nothing to do with whether they like the particular person or not. You'll still see liberals go on Fox News just as you'll see conservatives on the Daily Show.
ModernBoxes
Banned
Again, the flat two dimensional label of islamophobia continues because it's easy. The 'you're either with us or against us mentality" is strong and... should I say, regressive. As a liberal I can't defend my "side" against conservatives when the far left isn't willing to have an intelligent discussion on the current reality of religions. Fingers plugged in each ear hole shouting "ISLAMOPHOBIC!" What a great look.
Anyways, I'm out of this thread because I'm a junior and it's a hot subject.
Frozenprince
Banned
A giant asshole.
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