• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Another Muslim man killed by Hindu Mob over cow row

Status
Not open for further replies.
4th killing in 6 weeks of Muslim by Hindu mob. Hindu extremism is rising in India.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/0...?mwrsm=Facebook&referer=http://m.facebook.com


NEW DELHI — Amid a politically charged national debate over religious intolerance, a Muslim man was beaten to death on Monday by a mob of Hindus who suspected him of stealing a cow, a revered symbol in the Hindu religion. It was the fourth time in six weeks that Hindus had killed Muslims they suspected of slaughtering, stealing or smuggling cows.

The police found the bloodied and battered body of the man, Mohammad Hasmat Ali, early Monday morning in the remote village of Uchekon Moiba Thongkhong in Manipur, a state in northeast India. Mr. Ali, 55, married with three sons, was a leader in the neighboring village of Keirao Makting, where he was headmaster of a madrasa. Police officials said Mr. Ali had no criminal record and no known links to the cattle business.

“What is happening here is completely wrong — people taking the law into their hands,” Naba Kanta, the senior police official leading the investigation into Mr. Ali’s death, said in an interview. “We face the problem of mob justice in this area, and we are trying to do our best to contain it.”

The recent killings are occurring against a backdrop of intensifying political conflict over laws and policies aimed at protecting cows from slaughter and consumption. Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party, or B.J.P., has pushed aggressively to pass state beef bans. The Delhi police, controlled by Mr. Modi’s government, recently descended in force on a canteen after it posted beef on its menu. (It turned out to be buffalo meat.) On Wednesday, the B.J.P. ran campaign ads accusing its opponents of “insulting the holy cow.”

These and other recent outbreaks of violence by Hindu nationalists have provoked a vigorous cultural and political backlash across India. Dozens of leading authors returned India’s highest literary award in protest. Hundreds of scientists, academics, actors and filmmakers have signed petitions or spoken out. On Tuesday, Sonia Gandhi, the president of the Congress Party and Mr. Modi’s longtime political opponent, led a march in Delhi to condemn “the atmosphere of fear, intolerance and intimidation in the country.”

Mr. Modi’s party has struggled to formulate a response, at one point urging party leaders to temper their remarks, at another point ridiculing the spreading protests as a manufactured controversy. On Sunday, Mr. Modi’s finance minister, Arun Jaitley, went even further, asserting in a Facebook post that Mr. Modi was “the worst victim of ideological intolerance” enforced by “Congress, left thinkers and activists.”

“Their strategy is twofold,” Mr. Jaitley wrote. “Firstly, obstruct Parliament and do not permit reforms which will bring credit to Modi government. Secondly, create, by structured and organized propaganda, an environment that there is a social strife in India.”

The events leading to Mr. Ali’s death are still being pieced together by investigators. But according to Mr. Kanta, the police official, a Hindu man known by a single name, Brajendra, heard dogs barking outside his home early Monday morning.

“Brajendra decided to go out and check,” Mr. Kanta said. “He found Mr. Ali huddled in one corner of his barn, shivering. Brajendra assumed he had come to steal his calf and raised an alarm. A crowd gathered and they started beating Mr. Ali. In the pushing and pulling, and being beaten up, Mr. Ali died.”

So much for Modi bringing positive Change to India. This is exactly what was predicted when Modi was elected.
 

Dai101

Banned
How barbaric. They should have just cut his hand off.

Seriously, though, this is fucked.

image.php
 

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
Is the violence cultural or religious?

That is, does Hindu doctrine actually call for some kind of punishment if someone is accused of stealing a cow?
 
Is the violence mostly cultural?

That is, does Hindu doctrine actually call for some kind of punishment if someone is accused of stealing a cow?

No it doesn't say anything like that in Hindu doctrine . This is just the extremists who think it is their religious duty to protect cows by killing based on suspicion
 

GraveRobberX

Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
There's this fucked up video making the rounds on Paki-Facebook that's being shared

3 Muslim dudes being beaten in a barn, one is disabled, whooping them, beating them with cane in their feet, one Indian dude straight up pisses on the guy and makes him open his mouth
Last thing I heard was get scarves soiled with shit and wrap around their faces before video cuts out

All because they were suspected of eating beef, no evidence, just speculation


Funny how India's a big great exporter of beef...
 

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
No it doesn't. This is just the extremists

I'd actually say it wasn't extremists since they aren't really practicing extreme versions of Hinduism if the religion never calls for that kind of violence.

Just mob violence using religion as an excuse. But I guess even that is commonly called extremism so yeah.
 

Chairman Yang

if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
This is disturbing, and seems to parallel Europe's trend in some ways. Are anti-Muslim attacks more common nowadays? Any good stats available?
 
so you're blaming this on the prime minister of India?

Have you seen the India media coverage? The Modi government has done practically nothing to reign in groups associated with the bjp which is his party. Exactly how his Gujarat gov did nothing when Muslims suffered under his pre PM rule in similar events on a smaller scale
 
when I saw this title I thought it was a second victim but already 4?

so you're blaming this on the prime minister of India?

nah Modi seems to be doing a bunch of things right for economic growth

I am guessing it is more of these Hindu rise of nationalism from his supporters like a serious case of broken telephone

it would help if he addressed the issue though
 

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
You really really cannot separate these two in the vast majority of situations involving religion.

Religion is always practiced culturally. Though it can be understood in other terms.

I just meant was there anything in Hindu doctrine somewhere that says murder cow thieves that people largely ignore. Not trying to (completely) separate the two, just curious.
 

Hexa

Member
nah Modi seems to be doing a bunch of things right for economic growth

I am guessing it is more of these Hindu rise of nationalism from his supporters like a serious case of broken telephone

it would help if he addressed the issue though

Modi rose to power appealing to nationalism and has historically been crappy to minorities like Muslims in the past. The rise of this sort of stuff is a consequence of his rise to power. It's not dissimilar to the racists in the US that are being empowered by Trump's nationalist anti-immigrant rhetoric, and how empowered they would be if he actually became president and just let it play out.
 
so you're blaming this on the prime minister of India?
The current Prime Minister of India was the Chief Minister of Gujarat during the 2002 genocide of Muslims in that state. Although there is not enough evidence to suggest he was responsible for it, it's clear from his speeches that he's a nationalistic, right wing Hindutva blowhard.
 
This is disturbing, and seems to parallel Europe's trend in some ways. Are anti-Muslim attacks more common nowadays? Any good stats available?

Read this link

Blaming Muslims for the deaths of the pilgrims, mobs of Hindus rampage, rape, loot and kill in a spasm of violence that rages for more than two months. Mothers are skewered, children set afire and fathers hacked to pieces.

About 1,000 people, mostly Muslims, are killed. Some 20,000 Muslim homes and businesses and 360 places of worship are destroyed, and roughly 150,000 people are displaced.

The two biggest massacres are in Naroda Patiya, where more than 90 people are killed, and at the Gulbarg Society, a Muslim housing complex where a rumor encouraged by a World Hindu Council leader incites a mob. Muslims take refuge in the home of Ehsan Jafri, a former member of Parliament from the Indian National Congress party. While the attacks continue for more than six hours, Mr. Jafri calls a number of influential people for help, but none arrive. Sixty-nine people are killed, including Mr. Jafri, who is hacked to pieces and burned.

There are widespread allegations that the B.J.P., which leads the state of Uttar Pradesh and the national governing party, and the World Hindu Council — both part of the same Hindu nationalist family — were complicit and in some cases instigated the mobs. The party and the council both deny the charges.

The day after the train attack, for example, police officers in Ahmedabad do not arrest a single person among the tens of thousands of angry Hindus.

A top state official tells one investigation panel that Mr. Modi ordered officials to take no action against rioters. That official was murdered. Thousands of cases against rioters are dismissed by the police for lack of evidence despite eyewitness accounts.
 
Modi rose to power appealing to nationalism and has historically been crappy to minorities like Muslims in the past. The rise of this sort of stuff is a consequence of his rise to power. It's not dissimilar to the racists in the US that are being empowered by Trump's nationalist anti-immigrant rhetoric, and how empowered they would be if he actually became president and just let it play out.

ah I see.... sounds like some issues we see for minorities in China
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
I guess that cows are more valuable than human beings to some morons.

This is disturbing, and seems to parallel Europe's trend in some ways.

Why do you think that? How is the situation in India comparable with that of Europe?
 

wachie

Member
Anyone not believing that religious intolerance is on the rise since Modi came into power is delusional. That fucker is a known pogromist and why the government doesn't bat an eyelid on barbaric events like these.
 

Condom

Member
How can people just kill other people like that? WTF
Guess that's what happens if you put religion/ideology/whatever above basic humanity.
 

D i Z

Member
How can people just kill other people like that? WTF
Guess that's what happens if you put religion/ideology/whatever above basic humanity.

Ever hear of frontier justice? It wasn't ever legally sanctioned (officially), but not that long ago it was the "law of the land" in the states.
 
Was hearing about what was going on a while back

It's utterly retarded. Stupid loss of life. Hadn't followed the Indian election too much, but I was hoping a situation like this wouldn't come up with Modi, seeing how well he already had handled another similar situation..

How barbaric. They should have just cut his hand off.

Seriously, though, this is fucked.

Get out
 

EhoaVash

Member
Isnt the Indian prime minister banned from the US?

Not surprising when right wing gets elected all the crazy people feel more empowered.
 
Isnt the Indian prime minister banned from the US?

Not surprising when right wing gets elected all the crazy people feel more empowered.

nah I think he visited in September


also other then North Korea I think all world leaders at least go to the US due to the UN summit every year
 
Now since I was born here I have more western thinking than Indians born and living in India, but this type of attack probably happens everyday. Hindu's hate Muslims and Indians hate Pakistanis. It's the sad truth, and it probably won't ever stop because these kids are raised in a way to think the other is inferior in some way. Well that's my yearly NeoGaf post.
 
This is what happens when you give a country an official religion: shit like this happens. This is what happened in Bangalore recently; One of the chairs of a political party in India threaten to behead a Chief Minister (read: governor of the state) & play soccer with his head if he had consumed beef. The BJP in India are one of the moderate Hindu parties, for that matter. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) Hinduism in India is a nasty business because of the way it treats outsiders and those who critique it. There was a book burning a year ago for a book that reinterpreted Hinduism through the eyes of women, animals, outcasts, etc, to give a new perspective on things. It got charged under heresy. Religion in India is a very messy thing. It gave rise to the caste system, a system that has now been misused by rich people in poorer areas of the country to get away with rape, murder, and lord knows what else because the victims are Dalits.

Hinduism has its pros as a religion, but the effect it has on Indians is scary at times. There are incredibly hardline people out there. There was a movement a couple years ago called Ghar Wapsi, which actively tried to convert non-Hindus into Hindus. It continues to this day, and is associated with the hardline Hindu political groups. In order to get Muslims & Christians to convert, they effectively bribed them with money or preference when it came to benefits. One figure claimed " I am telling you, my target is that December 31, 2021 will be the last day for Christianity and Islam in this country". That party, the RSS, was an extremist group that was banned twice in the country. Modi was once a part of this group.

It's a shit-show. And one of the reasons I'm glad America isn't the Christian nation right-wingers claim it to be.
 

Ishan

Junior Member
4th killing in 6 weeks of Muslim by Hindu mob. Hindu extremism is rising in India.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/0...?mwrsm=Facebook&referer=http://m.facebook.com






So much for Modi bringing positive Change to India. This is exactly what was predicted when Modi was elected.

I'm anti modi and bjp but I'm pro the financial reforms and international policy changed he can bring (almost all progress with Pakistan has been made by "Hindu" oriented parties such as bjp as they can compromise while still maintaining "hindu" pride . It's bs but tends to be true. I was very concerned when he was elected . In fact many of my secular minded (essentially all) were but we factored in that it's a coalition so they can't pass random laws and maybe some economic good will come without idiotic communal laws. My mom was one of the ones super convinced by modi till one day once I heard her express her views I talked to her for an hour or so so she understood why he's a necessary evil etc (I'm studying in the states currently so am not totally on top of Indian politics discussions)

How barbaric. They should have just cut his hand off.

Seriously, though, this is fucked.

Well .... I don't even know what to say to this . Not in good taste dude. It's lives were talking about

Is the violence cultural or religious?

That is, does Hindu doctrine actually call for some kind of punishment if someone is accused of stealing a cow?

No it does not . In fact Hinduism is one of the most tolerant religions if anything it is more a way of life than a set doctrine etc and it was only when the British wanted an analogue to a "holy book" equivalent to koran/bible that the bhagvat Gita gained widespread recognition . Hinduism has always been a general way of life . We were ruled and for gods sake half our cuisine also comes from our Muslim conquerors during the Mughal dynasty (they changed during akbars rule to be more tolerant but that's another issue)

No the primary motivation is this notion of being subjugated or suppressed by foreign religions and cultures as Hinduism is not naturally violent . Muslims have infidels Christians had the crusades those two are much more conversion oriented religions (Hinduism actually didn't allow conversion till pretty recently and even then it's a sect that's what Hinduism is a bunch of sects with mostly similar but not quite the same views)

So this lead to a prosecution complex where since our constitution gurantees many rights to minority religions in India cause of the overwhelming Hindu population that minorities are taking advantage we need to fight back etc . And parties like bjp (modis party) get a lot of their support from such aspects .

There is also this anti western were losing our moral values aspect to this persecution complex but I'll avoid that for now .

so you're blaming this on the prime minister of India?

Modi is a representative of this in some sense as he while not supportive of communal violence at best was late to react during the Gujarat riots and at worst have it tacit approval. He has since distanced himself from those but even during his election cycle others (lower ranking) officials in his party were saying shit like India is for Hindus we need to kick Muslims out of their houses and take back what is ours

nah I think he visited in September


also other then North Korea I think all world leaders at least go to the US due to the UN summit every year
He was denied a visa due to the controversy over the Gujarat riots at the time he was say the equivalent of a governor of a state here but once he was pm (us rough equivalent =president) of India there is no way the us could refuse his entry . I personally think I hate his part on ideological grounds but he is a hard worker and has distanced himself from communal hatred and is working towards economic growth . Would I prefer someone better ? Fuck yes . Do I see someone better given the Indian political landscape not sure . I wouldn't vote for him but I get why ppl vote for his party.
 

Eos

Member
So police are beating and killing Sikhs and at the same time Hindus are beating and killing Muslims. So fucking stupid.
 
This is what happens when you give a country an official religion: shit like this happens. This is what happened in Bangalore recently; One of the chairs of a political party in India threaten to behead a Chief Minister (read: governor of the state) & play soccer with his head if he had consumed beef. The BJP in India are one of the moderate Hindu parties, for that matter. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) Hinduism in India is a nasty business because of the way it treats outsiders and those who critique it. There was a book burning a year ago for a book that reinterpreted Hinduism through the eyes of women, animals, outcasts, etc, to give a new perspective on things. It got charged under heresy. Religion in India is a very messy thing. It gave rise to the caste system, a system that has now been misused by rich people in poorer areas of the country to get away with rape, murder, and lord knows what else because the victims are Dalits.

Hinduism has its pros as a religion, but the effect it has on Indians is scary at times. There are incredibly hardline people out there. There was a movement a couple years ago called Ghar Wapsi, which actively tried to convert non-Hindus into Hindus. It continues to this day, and is associated with the hardline Hindu political groups. In order to get Muslims & Christians to convert, they effectively bribed them with money or preference when it came to benefits. One figure claimed " I am telling you, my target is that December 31, 2021 will be the last day for Christianity and Islam in this country". That party, the RSS, was an extremist group that was banned twice in the country. Modi was once a part of this group.

It's a shit-show. And one of the reasons I'm glad America isn't the Christian nation right-wingers claim it to be.
India does not have an official religion in it's constitution, and is secular. It does however, has a clause about "hurting the sentiments of people" through maligning a religion and is therefore punishable under law. Also, I don't think BJP is in any way moderate. Compared to Shiv Sena and the RSS? Sure. But they're all under the umbrella of Hindutva ideology.
 

Zukuu

Banned
I would love to eat a 100% beef double cheeseburger right in front of them. How can the world still be so backwards? It's baffling how much shit is going on in so many countries.
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
Anti-Muslim sentiment seems to be on the rise in both places.

I don't think that Muslims in Europe are being beaten to death on the streets by mobs of religious lunatics or other fanatics. Your comparison is hyperbolic and distorting.
 
India does not have an official religion in it's constitution, and is secular. It does however, has a clause about "hurting the sentiments of people" through maligning a religion and is therefore punishable under law. Also, I don't think BJP is in any way moderate. Compared to Shiv Sena and the RSS? Sure. But they're all under the umbrella of Hindutva ideology.

You'll have to forgive me on some of those details. I lived in India for 3 years, and during that whole time, I never really paid attention to the politics at the time. Really should have read for Times of India or the Hindu.

But, hopefully, the message gets through. India's a country that, for better or worse, is in the hands of Hindu nationalist parties. And nationalist parties gonna do what nationalist parties do best: promote their beliefs everywhere humanly possible.
 

Ishan

Junior Member
This is what happens when you give a country an official religion: shit like this happens. This is what happened in Bangalore recently; One of the chairs of a political party in India threaten to behead a Chief Minister (read: governor of the state) & play soccer with his head if he had consumed beef. The BJP in India are one of the moderate Hindu parties, for that matter. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) Hinduism in India is a nasty business because of the way it treats outsiders and those who critique it. There was a book burning a year ago for a book that reinterpreted Hinduism through the eyes of women, animals, outcasts, etc, to give a new perspective on things. It got charged under heresy. Religion in India is a very messy thing. It gave rise to the caste system, a system that has now been misused by rich people in poorer areas of the country to get away with rape, murder, and lord knows what else because the victims are Dalits.

Hinduism has its pros as a religion, but the effect it has on Indians is scary at times. There are incredibly hardline people out there. There was a movement a couple years ago called Ghar Wapsi, which actively tried to convert non-Hindus into Hindus. It continues to this day, and is associated with the hardline Hindu political groups. In order to get Muslims & Christians to convert, they effectively bribed them with money or preference when it came to benefits. One figure claimed " I am telling you, my target is that December 31, 2021 will be the last day for Christianity and Islam in this country". That party, the RSS, was an extremist group that was banned twice in the country. Modi was once a part of this group.

It's a shit-show. And one of the reasons I'm glad America isn't the Christian nation right-wingers claim it to be.


This is an extremely ignorant viewpoint . India is secular by constitution . And we have complete separation of state and religion you would never see a "in god we trust" in any legal Indian note .

In law were far more progressive than other countries for example since polygamy is at times a part of.muslim culture it's allowed under Indian law for a Muslim to have multiple wives but not for a Hindu . Out minorities are extremely well protected under the law.

The key point is under the law . Law is not well enforced in India as it is in more developed countries .and politicians play on the emotional sentiment ofhindus and say look it's our country but these muslim/Christian minorities get more protection that us etc

Caste system again very ignorant of you . In origin the caste system is a good idea you're essentially saying scholars are very important and society should respect them most then warriors etc etc . The problem was it became hereditary . And is a mess now but we have laws to try and uplift lower castes . Are you aware that if you're from an "upper caste" you can only have access to under50% of the seats in the most prestigious educational institutes or even legislative and execute bodies . You hav affirmative action here but do you have anything close to a law which says 50% of all seats at Harvard has to be blacks because our society fucked them over in the past ??
And when it comes to conversion Islam and Christianity have been practicing conversion for ages in India . One of the prime drivers for conversions to Christianity was te lower castes being wooed by Christian missionaries with a variety of incentives . Hinduism didn't even allow conversion till recently(you had to be born a Hindu which is fucked up in itself but that's another issue) . You're oversimplifying a complicated issue.

My country has many many flaws and lot to improve . I will ready admit it . But don't characterize and make simplistic statements without realizing what you're talking about .


Edit: so off point on even the critique aspect google salmon Rushdie and why his anti Muslim book was banned in India too. The country has censorship issues but it's not religion specific . For gods sake they tried to ban porn recently but that failed epicly and was reversed with 3 days
 

Ishan

Junior Member
You'll have to forgive me on some of those details. I lived in India for 3 years, and during that whole time, I never really paid attention to the politics at the time. Really should have read for Times of India or the Hindu.

But, hopefully, the message gets through. India's a country that, for better or worse, is in the hands of Hindu nationalist parties. And nationalist parties gonna do what nationalist parties do best: promote their beliefs everywhere humanly possible.

It is and isn't in fact if you read te Hindu or times of India you'll realize most Indian press is actually very pro secular and anti idealistic Hindu viewpoints (changing now as some are trying to become the "fox" news of india and well times of India is trying to become a cross between a lifestyle magazine and a proper journalistic endeavor) . No it really depends on where you life and blore had a bunch of shit also like that one time ppl tried to rub crowding on Ppls faces for some bar thing . So essentially the bjp is harsh the rss and others are idiotic . The problem is given a multiparty system every triesto appease their own voter bank . The congress is the most progressive ideologically as it's the remnant of the movement that have us our independence . But they have this whole dynasty thing going on which ppl aren't fond of . So backlash etc the situation is very complicated . As I said this situation is horrible and abhorrent but to characterize India in just those words is not recognizing the underlying extremely complicated issues . It's like how neither India or Pakistan want to give up Kashmir even tho franky well all be better off and less on verge of nuclear war and terrorism if we made it a semi autonomous territory and everyone would profit from tourism and growth. Old views and emotional aspects plus pride etc play a large role and politicians know how to leverage that
 

Chairman Yang

if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
I don't think that Muslims in Europe are being beaten to death on the streets by mobs of religious lunatics or other fanatics. Your comparison is hyperbolic and distorting.
My comparison is totally fine, especially because I mentioned that the situations parallel each other "in some ways". Things don't have to be literally identical to parallel them. Considering India's population is 60% more than all of Europe's, and it has a much larger percentage of Muslims, and it's vastly poorer, it would be shocking if the situations were exactly the same. I really don't think it's a stretch to say that anti-Muslim sentiment is rising around the world. I'm honestly not sure why you're objecting to my comment. What, exactly, am I distorting?
 

Lamel

Banned
Hindu-muslim conflict is always a messy, messy affair, and has been going on for a long time.

This resurgence is pretty terrible. I don't know much about Indian politics, but I've heard that Modi is an asshole.
 

Ishan

Junior Member
Hindu-muslim conflict is always a messy, messy affair, and has been going on for a long time.

This resurgence is pretty terrible. I don't know much about Indian politics, but I've heard that Modi is an asshole.

Dude I hate this stupid hinduistic movement . I was born a Hindu identify as agnostic but I respect Hinduism
And what it stands for as I do Islam Christianity and other religions . It's so fucking annoying politicians and zealots playing on Ppls emotions and riling them up for such dispicable acts . And I feel this way for someone who is "upper caste" and born Hindu so I had it good in India .
 

params7

Banned
And India will continue its blind worship of Modi. Don't know what fucking spell he used to ensnare the whole nation and every age group to vote for him. If only Congress wasn't so corrupt.

I feel like this will get a lot more worse before it gets better.
 

Jeels

Member
Have you seen the India media coverage? The Modi government has done practically nothing to reign in groups associated with the bjp which is his party. Exactly how his Gujarat gov did nothing when Muslims suffered under his pre PM rule in similar events on a smaller scale

Ya Modi is a piece of shit. I am disappointed in India for hiring a man who is essentially responsible for ethnic cleansing. But I'm sure he appeals to the lowest common denominator.
 

Ishan

Junior Member
Ya Modi is a piece of shit. I am disappointed in India for hiring a man who is essentially responsible for ethnic cleansing. But I'm sure he appeals to the lowest common denominator.

He doesn't . He appeals to many highly educated and informed ppl too . Say your options are vote for congress (keep a dynasty going with an entirely uncharismatic leader and lots of questions who's really in power and a declining economic growth) or vote for this proven person as far as business but turned a blind eye to communism . What I do I vote I vote the first as I don't want communist riot . Average Indian ? I'm short on money I want food this person works economically . Average Indian votes modi . Educated Indian . Who do I vote ? Either I'm promoting a dynasty which doesn't quite know how to govern or taking a chance on someone who I know makes an economic difference and has tried to distance himself from his communal past . I'm split . It's not that simple . Essentially what I've been trying to hammer home past 4 posts :)
 
A human life < a cow. I respect other cultures, religious, and spiritual beliefs but when I look at a cow all I see is steak on legs.

I feel for this man and hope his family is left alone if his family is there with him.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom