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[beastmode]

This is just so very wrong.

....

who told you this?

The quote on insulin is from Wikipedia. Noncontroversial.

lol

How many times do I have to state it in this thread? Insulin is by far the biggest factor in fat storage. So if you're not secreting insulin by not eating carbohydrates your body will already be burning as much of your fat stores as it can throughout the day. If you go and exercise it's just going to make you hungry (running the risk of over eating) or you can decide to just straight up starve yourself, which isn't exactly healthy and won't help you in your weight loss goals significantly if at all.

Its not that hard dude

Calories in, calories out...exercise helps...

That isn't the way the body stores and burns fat. It just isn't.

It depends. If he means strictly cardio, then he is basically correct. If he means cardio and strength training, the latter being the most important aspect of weight loss, then he is wrong.

I'm referring to cardio. Strength training will give you muscles that might make you look better or keep off weight but the extra calories burned are pretty negligible. Can you even gain muscle while in ketosis?

 

[SeanR1221]

Beast mode, how do you explain me eating under 20g of carbs for 2 months and not losing a pound?

Don't say I was gaining muscle either. You're lucky to gain 1-1.5 pounds of muscle a month.

 

[DY_nasty]

Not every obese person is a victim of the machine or being slowed by physiological obstacles.

 

[starchild excalibur]

As a fat guy who's been slowly, but steadily working to lose weight since May I'll say right off the bat that the two can't and shouldn't be equated beyond "Both groups tend to be stigmatized to varying degrees." Fat people aren't nearly persecuted to the degree that queer-identifying people are - after all, how could they when so many people are now in the obesity camp? It's hard to be treated a minority when you're slowly becoming the majority.

Obesity is - to a degree - a choice. To. A. Degree. And I say this because while it's easy to say "Eat right and exercise" there are people in wholly different situations where that's simply not as available an option as it may be for you. I think everyone is capable of losing weight, but given the varying amount of hurdles from person to person I can empathize with those who are trying but struggling to. Part of these hurdles are due to poor education and due to simply not knowing what all this branding of "low fat" "low calories" etc really means. Many people don't know that low fat may mean high sugar. Or that cereal can be detrimental if you're especially carb-sensitive. Shit like that.

I will say a big "fuck you" to those that judge others without even knowing them, though. The thing I hate especially isn't even people making jokes (fat people shouldn't be off limit from jokes) but the holier-than-though "These people sicken me" attitude that some people have without even knowing if the person they're judging are in the process of turning their life around. And all the while venerating thin-looking people who may be heavy drinkers, heavy smokers or have other vices. It's that double standard that bothers me.

I'll keep trying to do what I can to turn my life around and hope that other GAFfers that are dissatisfied with their weight will keep trying to lose weight. At the end of the day we should all be trying to be healthy for ourselves - not for anyone else.

Beast mode, how do you explain me eating under 20g of carbs for 2 months and not losing a pound?

Don't say I was gaining muscle either. You're lucky to gain 1-1.5 pounds of muscle a month.

I used to be all about low-carb, but I've had more success with a mentality of "minimize carbs, minimize calories." You can get a veggie-wrapped double bacon burger at Carl's Jr's which has only a handful of carbs but almost 2000 calories and I'm pretty sure if you 4 of those you'll still be under 20g of carbs but at 8000 calories. I don't subscribe to the "calories don't matter" idea - 8000 calories even with under 20g of carbs is fucked up.

So yeah, maybe pay attention to calories as well.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Not every obese person is a victim of the machine or being slowed by physiological obstacles.

Not even a majority.

 

[RM8]

That isn't the way the body stores and burns fat. It just isn't

So the millions of people losing fat by creating calorie deficits are wrong. Athletes cutting by lowering their calorie intake are wrong. Man, diets work, and diets consist on restricting calories. A gastric bypass works, because it forces the patient to eat less. People have been documented to lose weight by eating nothing but potatoes, or twinkies, as long as a calorie deficit is created. Low/No-carb has advantages, definitely, and it's perfectly normal that some people see better results with some diets, but it's not suddenly the only way to lose fat.

 

[Veezy]

The quote on insulin is from Wikipedia. Noncontroversial.How many times do I have to state it in this thread? Insulin is by far the biggest factor in fat storage. So if you're not secreting insulin by not eating carbohydrates your body will already be burning as much of your fat stores as it can throughout the day. If you go and exercise it's just going to make you hungry (running the risk of over eating) or you can decide to just straight up starve yourself, which isn't exactly healthy and won't help you in your weight loss goals significantly if at all.That isn't the way the body stores and burns fat. It just isn't.I'm referring to cardio. Strength training will give you muscles that might make you look better or keep off weight but the extra calories burned are pretty negligible. Can you even gain muscle while in ketosis?

I'm not entirely disagreeing with what you're saying. The vast majority of the reason for weight loss and gain is due to insulin. However, to say that exercising is negligible, when it assists with the metabolic deficiency, and insulin resistance, that people experience with a diet consistently high in carbs, specifically carbs digested from sucrose of any type is just wrong.

Obese people need a balanced diet with a sharp reduction sugar and an increase in fiber (glucose and sucrose/fructose are not the same thing and insulin isn't a bad thing unless it's spiked too high for too long), 10-20 percent reduction in calories, and a moderate amount of physical activity, even if it's just walking, to assist with getting them back to a regular insulin level and a stable metabolic rate.

Telling overweight people to just cut carbs because working out doesn't help isn't just wrong, it's malpractice. Sedentary lifestyle affects all sorts of things besides just your weight, and being obese has an affect on those negative physiological problems as well.

 

[starchild excalibur]

So the millions of people losing fat by creating calorie deficits are wrong. Athletes cutting by lowering their calorie intake are wrong. Man, diets work, and diets consist on restricting calories. A gastric bypass works, because it forces the patient to eat less. People have been documented to lose weight by eating nothing but potatoes, or twinkies, as long as a calorie deficit is created. Low/No-carb has advantages, definitely, and it's perfectly normal that some people see better results with some diets, but it's not suddenly the only way to lose fat.

The body is incredibly complex. Every time something is asserted about how the body works, a contradiction arises. As much as I appreciate the Weight Loss thread I found myself getting frustrated by all the contradictions that arose. If low carb is right, then why does [x] group eat carbs yet remain lean. If low calories is right, then why does [x] group eat calories, yet remain thin? So on and so forth.

Again, I've eased off my low-carb militant status and eased more into a "be sensible about carbs, be sensible about calories" mentality and have managed to still lose weight while not grossing myself out by only eating meat. Do what works.

 

[RM8]

But as you mentioned, you got better results while moderating carbs and being conscious about your calorie intake. And I agree that it works. I'm just against the idea that "no-carbs" is the only way to lose fat. It's even a bit lol worthy in my opinion.

 

[negreenfield]

Beast mode, how do you explain me eating under 20g of carbs for 2 months and not losing a pound?

Don't say I was gaining muscle either. You're lucky to gain 1-1.5 pounds of muscle a month.

If you had no success you should have tried to shake things up, have 6 low carb days and 1 high carb day (preferably low fat with the carbs being rice and potatoes and very little sugar). This is what I'm currently doing and has allowed me to break through some plateaus. I had the same issue as you. Another thing to try is intermittent fasting.

 

[Trent Strong]

The quote on insulin is from Wikipedia. Noncontroversial.How many times do I have to state it in this thread? Insulin is by far the biggest factor in fat storage. So if you're not secreting insulin by not eating carbohydrates your body will already be burning as much of your fat stores as it can throughout the day. If you go and exercise it's just going to make you hungry (running the risk of over eating) or you can decide to just straight up starve yourself, which isn't exactly healthy and won't help you in your weight loss goals significantly if at all.That isn't the way the body stores and burns fat. It just isn't.I'm referring to cardio. Strength training will give you muscles that might make you look better or keep off weight but the extra calories burned are pretty negligible. Can you even gain muscle while in ketosis?

Let's take the NBA or the NFL as an example. If every guy in the NBA or NFL kept eating exactly what they are eating now, but they all completely stopped playing and practicing football or basketball and just sat around all day watching TV, then none of those guys would gain any fat? Because all that physical activity they get has no impact on their weight or how much fat they have?

 

[FallingEdge]

Exercise can have a role in preventing insulin resistance but is practically worthless for losing weight.

How do you explain people who lift and compete in BB contests (natural) that eat around 300g of carbs a day and are constantly dropping fat and dropping to single digit bf%?

Seriously, that statement is terrible and is completely wrong.

I'm losing weight even though I probably don't leave the house most days and no strenuous exercise.

Prolly losing muscle as well which is not good.

 

[beastmode]

Beast mode, how do you explain me eating under 20g of carbs for 2 months and not losing a pound?

Don't say I was gaining muscle either. You're lucky to gain 1-1.5 pounds of muscle a month.

How old are you? How long were you obese for? How old were you when you became obese? What gender are you? Did you have any 'cheat' days? If so, how many? How much more or less sugar than the average would you say you've consumed? Were you exercising? How many obese family members do you have? Were you stressed? Do you have diabetes?

It's impossible to say really unless you try 2 months under the same circumstances but with the vast majority of your calories coming from carbohydrates instead of fat.

So the millions of people losing fat by creating calorie deficits are wrong. Athletes cutting by lowering their calorie intake are wrong. Man, diets work, and diets consist on restricting calories. A gastric bypass works, because it forces the patient to eat less. People have been documented to lose weight by eating nothing but potatoes, or twinkies, as long as a calorie deficit is created. Low/No-carb has advantages, definitely, and it's perfectly normal that some people see better results with some diets, but it's not suddenly the only way to lose fat.

If the popular method for losing weight and keeping it off was the most effective, then why do we have an obesity epidemic? Are people just really that dense and stupid? Well, if you believe that then basically the whole argument that obese people are responsible for becoming fat falls apart.

I don't know why I have to keep stating it: insulin is the primary culprit for weight gain. It's just basic logic that dealing with the actual cause of the disease should be a higher priority than starvation. The studies support that are even remotely open to that hypothesis confirm that it is indeed more effective. Have I ever said that exercise and calorie restriction doesn't work? No, only that it is clear that it is less effective. It's bad advice.

How do you explain people who lift and compete in BB contests (natural) that eat around 300g of carbs a day and are constantly dropping fat and dropping to single digit bf%?

Seriously, that statement is terrible and is completely wrong.



Prolly losing muscle as well which is not good.

I don't know what BB is. Are these people obese?

No muscle to lose really, and being weak is not nearly as unhealthy as being obese. I'll probably start lifting when I'm at a good weight.

 

[RM8]

Let's take the NBA or the NFL as an example. If every guy in the NBA or NFL kept eating exactly what they are eating now, but they all completely stopped playing and practicing football or basketball and just sat around all day watching TV, then none of those guys would gain any fat? Because all that physical activity they get has no impact on their weight or how much fat they have?

Or using this pic again:

Michael Phelps is not obese because he exercises a ton. No other way around it.

 

[starchild excalibur]

But as you mentioned, you got better results while moderating carbs and being conscious about your calorie intake. And I agree that it works. I'm just against the idea that "no-carbs" is the only way to lose fat. It's even a bit lol worthy in my opinion.

Yeah, I wasn't disagreeing with your quote but just pointing out that there are contradictions on both sides. I could probably lose more weight with intensely lo-carb eating, but the problem I had with that when I tried it is that I quickly get tired of just meats and vegetables. I also love bread and pastas a lot. So while anatomically that diet would work wonders for me, the fact that it was a struggle to physically implement it correctly (AND sustain it) meant that it was a no-go in my situation. For other people in the Weight Loss thread who loved meat more than I did and didn't miss breads, it was incredibly easy.

Sustainability is key and that's why I've migrated to more of a "be moderate in x, y and z category" approach. For someone who can be sustainable with a "be aggressively low in just x category" then more power to 'em, I guess.

 

[FallingEdge]

Or using this pic again:

Michael Phelps is not obese because he exercises a ton. No other way around it.

No bro. It is clearly less effective and exercise has a minimal impact. He is losing weight from a lack of carbs. Working out makes you over eat!

 

[RM8]

If the popular method for losing weight and keeping it off was the most effective, then why do we have an obesity epidemic?

Because people are eating more and exercising less? It's no secret that as a whole humans are more sedentary now, and portion sizes have been getting bigger over time. Not to mention not all countries suffer from this, and again, countries like Japan and China are most definitely not on perpetual ketosis.

 

[negreenfield]

Meh, I think you all using elite athletes as example are not really helpful, these are such rare people and most have such super specialized training and eating regimens that are tailored to exactly what they need to do as an elite athlete. I personally agree that for the average person exercise will not help them much unless they follow something like the Primal workouts. I've seen so many people fail trying to exercise too hard and cut calories (many have a short term weight loss, but almost all come back to the original weight or even go back over their original weight) and be miserable while doing it I agree it's not the right approach.

 

[teh_pwn]

Because people are eating more and exercising less? It's no secret that as a whole humans are more sedentary now, and portion sizes have been getting bigger over time. Not to mention not all countries suffer from this, and again, countries like Japan and China are most definitely not on perpetual ketosis.

Do you have data for the amount of physical activity in America over the last 60 years? Or how about comparing Japan to the United States today?

You're right about eating more, but it's not a cause it's an effect.

Here's the cause.

 

[Phonomezer]

Everyone should aspire to be healthy and live long lives, regardless of their body size.

I don't really see the merit in eating bullshit junk food every day other than "it tastes good", which I don't think is a good excuse. I don't drop tabs of ecstasy every day because "it feels good", people just need to exercise some moderation and self-control.

 

[beastmode]

Let's take the NBA or the NFL as an example. If every guy in the NBA or NFL kept eating exactly what they are eating now, but they all completely stopped playing and practicing football or basketball and just sat around all day watching TV, then none of those guys would gain any fat? Because all that physical activity they get has no impact on their weight or how much fat they have?

Or using this pic again:

Michael Phelps is not obese because he exercises a ton. No other way around it.

Oh, for fucks sake. The point is that when you're not on carbs you're already losing weight/maintaining a healthy one. Exercise is only needed when you're eating carbs, like an athlete does.

No bro. It is clearly less effective and exercise has a minimal impact. He is losing weight from a lack of carbs. Working out makes you over eat!

Is Michael Phelps trying to lose weight? Has Michael Phelps ever even been overweight, let alone obese?

 

[SeanR1221]

How old are you? How long were you obese for? How old were you when you became obese? What gender are you? Did you have any 'cheat' days? If so, how many? How much more or less sugar than the average would you say you've consumed? Were you exercising? How many obese family members do you have? Were you stressed? Do you have diabetes?

It's impossible to say really unless you try 2 months under the same circumstances but with the vast majority of your calories coming from carbohydrates instead of fat.If the popular method for losing weight and keeping it off was the most effective, then why do we have an obesity epidemic? Are people just really that dense and stupid? Well, if you believe that then basically the whole argument that obese people are responsible for becoming fat falls apart.

I'll bite.

I'm 25, 5'8. I was obese from 10-17years old. Male. Once a week. Had about 7 or less grams of sugar a day. Exercising 6 times a week, 3 lifting days, 3 cardio. Parents are obese. Always stressed bro! No, but my parents do.

Went from 185 to....185.

Eating carbs helped me break the weight loss plateau by the way.

Through the nice guys at the fitness thread, I'm just going to not stress about it anymore. Still eating clean, but more carbs (especially on lifting days) and not recording every little thing to lower stress.

 

[FallingEdge]

Meh, I think you all using elite athletes as example are not really helpful, these are such rare people and most have such super specialized training and eating regimens that are tailored to exactly what they need to do as an elite athlete. I personally agree that for the average person exercise will not help them much unless they follow something like the Primal workouts. I've seen so many people fail trying to exercise too hard and cut calories (many have a short term weight loss, but almost all come back to the original weight or even go back over their original weight) and be miserable while doing it I agree it's not the right approach.

It is an excellent approach if you are informed. People fail because they have no idea what they are doing and won't do the proper research. They do cardio for 2 hours a day and eat less than 1000 calories and then go home and do hundreds of crunches. This is absurd. If someone doesn't follow a plan properly, then of course they aren't going to get the results they desire.

I don't know what BB is. Are these people obese?

bodybuilding

 

[RM8]

Meh, I think you all using elite athletes as example are not really helpful, these are such rare people and most have such super specialized training and eating regimens that are tailored to exactly what they need to do as an elite athlete. I personally agree that for the average person exercise will not help them much unless they follow something like the Primal workouts. I've seen so many people fail trying to exercise too hard and cut calories (many have a short term weight loss, but almost all come back to the original weight or even go back over their original weight) and be miserable while doing it I agree it's not the right approach.

Okay, then explain this magic force that keeps athletes thin while they eat tons of fattening food. How can in not be the calories burned by exercise? These guys spend most of the day working out. And if someone stops working out and eating healthy, yeah, the weight is coming back indeed. In my case as I have mentioned, as a fat kid, I didn't just diet hard and exercised a ton - no, I learned how to eat and found that physical activity was someone that was going to be part of my life.

Do you have data for the amount of physical activity in America over the last 60 years?

No, I'm mostly talking about people walking less with more readily available transportation methods, and spending more time indoors because of work.

 

[teh_pwn]

No, I'm mostly talking about people walking less with more readily available transportation methods, and spending more time indoors because of work.

Right, but that's totally anecdotal evidence, which isn't really evidence at all.

I exercise because I like being fit...as in I can do a pull up, maneuver, leap up stairs if I want. Not because it makes me thin. It might very well improve the ability to reduce fat mass, but that's not the same as the inverse causing fat gain. We didn't have Aerobics until the obesity epidemic was just about to start. The fitness industry was tiny back then.

If walking around really successfully mitigated fat gain, why then are the fattest parts of emerging markets the cities? I think it's because they eat American junk food.

 

[RM8]

Some walking doesn't negate eating 5000 calories, though.

 

[teh_pwn]

Some walking doesn't negate eating 5000 calories, though.

Read the link I posted. The brain regulates body fat mass. If this regulation is completely out of whack, you could burn 5000 more calories but crave to eat 5000 more. That's why I'm trying to pick at what you're saying. What you're saying is common knowledge, but it isn't science.

 

[beastmode]

Because people are eating more and exercising less? It's no secret that as a whole humans are more sedentary now, and portion sizes have been getting bigger over time. Not to mention not all countries suffer from this, and again, countries like Japan and China are most definitely not on perpetual ketosis.

You already asked this question, and I already addressed it. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41537838&postcount=515

Okay, then explain this magic force that keeps athletes thin while they eat tons of fattening food. How can in not be the calories burned by exercise? These guys spend most of the day working out. And if someone stops working out and eating healthy, yeah, the weight is coming back indeed. In my case as I have mentioned, as a fat kid, I didn't just diet hard and exercised a ton - no, I learned how to eat and found that physical activity was someone that was going to be part of my life.

If you actually read what I said before you went on a war against a straw man you'd know that I said that exercise is a good preventative measure.

Some walking doesn't negate eating 5000 calories, though.

No one in ketosis eats 5000 calories willingly. That's one of the major points.

 

[RM8]

Read the link I posted. The brain regulates body fat mass. If this regulation is completely out of whack, you could burn 5000 more calories but crave to eat 5000 more. That's why I'm trying to pick at what you're saying. What you're saying is common knowledge, but it isn't science.

Basically, junk food is highly caloric and makes you crave more highly caloric junk food, right? I definitely agree with that.

If you actually read what I said before you went on a war against a straw man you'd know that I said that exercise is a good preventative measure.

Man, I just find it silly that you think people can't lose weight by working out. Just skimming through a fitness forum can tell you that much. It's not just for prevention, really.

 

[teh_pwn]

Basically, junk food is highly caloric and makes you crave more highly caloric junk food, right? I definitely agree with that.

Energy density is just one of many of the factors. Avoiding it can improve your "setpoint" in theory, but there's many more qualities.

But yes, the basic idea is that junk food and fast food disrupt satiety signals, which causes overeating. It's why a cold lean steak or raw carrots doesn't induce a veracious appetite like pizza.

It also explains why some people do well with low carb diets. Warm carbs provide rewarding texture and combinations with other factors.

 

[Wafflecakes]

Man, I just find it silly that you think people can't lose weight by working out. Just skimming through a fitness forum can tell you that much. It's not just for prevention, really.

No they are saying its stupid and inefficiency. Takes 1/10th the effort and time to lose the exact same weight though diet. Its possible to lose weight by exercise. Its not practical for most though and its a terrible idea to advise others to do so because its setting them up for failure.

If you run 6 hours a day you will be skinny. OR you could take 20 minutes a day to think about your food choices more and get the same result.

 

[harSon]

Beast mode, how do you explain me eating under 20g of carbs for 2 months and not losing a pound?

Don't say I was gaining muscle either. You're lucky to gain 1-1.5 pounds of muscle a month.

To be perfectly honest, you were probably doing something wrong. Maybe your body is sensitive to artificial sweeteners and/or sugar alcohols, and something you consistently ate containing them was spiking your blood level and taking you out of Ketosis. Maybe you weren't eating enough. Maybe there wasn't enough fat in your diet (you can't really do low fat and low carb).

And anecdotal evidence doesn't really man anything. I could just as easily cite my own experiences with low-carb dieting, where I lost plenty of wait utilizing the diet (I've posted a ton of pictures within the fitness and weight loss thread). Never mind the fact that there's scientific evidence suggesting that it's the best diet for weight loss, and zero scientific basis suggesting that a calorie in/calorie out diet works in itself. In reality, the restriction in calories is simply moderating carbs by extension...

 

[Veezy]

No they are saying its stupid and inefficiency. Takes 1/10th the effort and time to lose the exact same weight though diet. Its possible to lose weight by exercise. Its not practical for most though and its a terrible idea to advise others to do so because its setting them up for failure.

If you run 6 hours a day you will be skinny. OR you could take 20 minutes a day to think about your food choices more and get the same result.

While exercise isn't the most efficient way to lose weight by itself, it can help in the process.

More importantly, obesity and sedentary lifestyle combined will set one up for some pretty terrible physiological consequences in the future. If you're already fat it's best to exercise and eat right in combination to help yourself out more than just staying on your ass and cutting out the sugar.

 

[beastmode]

bodybuilding

OK. So these people aren't obese. The statement isn't "terrible" and "completely wrong." You just couldn't (or chose not to) actually read it.

Man, I just find it silly that you think people can't lose weight by working out. Just skimming through a fitness forum can tell you that much. It's not just for prevention, really.

That's not what I think:

I don't know why I have to keep stating it: insulin is the primary culprit for weight gain. It's just basic logic that dealing with the actual cause of the disease should be a higher priority than starvation. The studies support that are even remotely open to that hypothesis confirm that it is indeed more effective. Have I ever said that exercise and calorie restriction doesn't work? No, only that it is clear that it is less effective. It's bad advice.

I'll bite.

I'm 25, 5'8. I was obese from 10-17years old. Male. Once a week. Had about 7 or less grams of sugar a day. Exercising 6 times a week, 3 lifting days, 3 cardio. Parents are obese. Always stressed bro! No, but my parents do.

Went from 185 to....185.

Eating carbs helped me break the weight loss plateau by the way.

Through the nice guys at the fitness thread, I'm just going to not stress about it anymore. Still eating clean, but more carbs (especially on lifting days) and not recording every little thing to lower stress.

Honestly, this goes against the standard outcome for both treatments - and eating of carbs helping you lose weight is just bizarre. There is literally no evidence or support for that being possible. It may have to do with the fact that you were trying to do strenuous exercise while on ketosis, including strength training (not recommended.)

While exercise isn't the most efficient way to lose weight by itself, it can help in the process.

More importantly, obesity and sedentary lifestyle combined will set one up for some pretty terrible physiological consequences in the future. If you're already fat it's best to exercise and eat right in combination to help yourself out more than just staying on your ass and cutting out the sugar.

While you're actually in ketosis and losing the weight it's either negligible or detrimental.

 

[Wafflecakes]

While exercise isn't the most efficient way to lose weight by itself, it can help in the process.

More importantly, obesity and sedentary lifestyle combined will set one up for some pretty terrible physiological consequences in the future. If you're already fat it's best to exercise and eat right in combination to help yourself out more than just staying on your ass and cutting out the sugar.

Of course exercise is good for you. Don't think anyone is arguing against that. It is "A" tool for weight loss. However, anyone deluding themselves that it can be their primary tool is going to be disappointing with their results in the vast majority of cases.

 

[RM8]

In reality, the restriction in calories is simply moderating carbs by extension...

Potato diet. Twinkie diet. I doubt these guys are huge biological exceptions, personally.

 

[Wafflecakes]

Potato diet. Twinkie diet. I doubt these guys are huge biological exceptions, personally.

lol strawman much?

You can lose weight on ANY diet if you restrict your calories enough. That doesn't make those diets good or advisable.

 

[RM8]

You can lose weight on ANY diet if you restrict your calories enough.

That's actually the only point I want to make in this thread. And I think a good, advisable diet can have some carbs in moderation.

 

[Wafflecakes]

That's actually the only point I want to make in this thread. And I think a good, advisable diet can have some carbs in moderation.

Yes they can. But as someone who has been on a Keto diet for 4 months and lost 70 lbs I really doubt they are as effective.

 

[Veezy]

While your actually in ketosis and losing the weight it's either negligible or detrimental.

Stop it.

Just stop.

There is nothing detrimental about a safe program that combine aerobic and anaerobic training with a diet low in sugar, high in fiber, and with a portion of calories. While the % of BF you will lose when you begin to train and eat less will go down due to your metabolism slowing, this is a good thing due to it coming to a more normal rate. Besides, weight loss is a marathon not a sprint.

Fuck me, working out depletes your glycogen so that way the sugar in your blood has somewhere to go assisting with insulin resistance. It helps lower resting heart rate, increases VO2 max, lowers blood pressure.... fucking hell, all issues that obese people suffer. Thin inactive people suffer it as well, but they don't have those issues coupled with a high waist to hip ratio.

@Waffle, this dude, right here, is.

 

[BakedPigeon]

The only thing I can see that homosexuality and obese have in common is people using hateful slurs to attack other people. Much like someone calling another person gay, someone might call an obese person a fat ass. It's hateful and hurts feelings. Beyond that I don't really see any comparison. Obesity can be corrected through the willpower of working out and eating healthy. Being gay is natural and not something that should be changed because that is the way the person is and there is nothing wrong with it.

 

[SeanR1221]

To be perfectly honest, you were probably doing something wrong. Maybe your body is sensitive to artificial sweeteners and/or sugar alcohols, and something you consistently ate containing them was spiking your blood level and taking you out of Ketosis. Maybe you weren't eating enough. Maybe there wasn't enough fat in your diet (you can't really do low fat and low carb).

And anecdotal evidence doesn't really man anything. I could just as easily cite my own experiences with low-carb dieting, where I lost plenty of wait utilizing the diet (I've posted a ton of pictures within the fitness and weight loss thread). Never mind the fact that there's scientific evidence suggesting that it's the best diet for weight loss, and zero scientific basis suggesting that a calorie in/calorie out diet works in itself. In reality, the restriction in calories is simply moderating carbs by extension...

To be perfectly honest I wasn't. I measured everything. I was eating high fat. I was eating eggs, vegetables, meats and...that's about it. A little cheese too. The not eating enough is a possibility, but many ate 1500 calories and have lost weight

OK. So these people aren't obese. The statement isn't "terrible" and "completely wrong." You just couldn't (or chose not to) actually read it.That's not what I think:Honestly, this goes against the standard outcome for both treatments - and eating of carbs helping you lose weight is just bizarre. There is literally no evidence or support for that being possible. It may have to do with the fact that you were trying to do strenuous exercise while on ketosis, including strength training (not recommended.)While your actually in ketosis and losing the weight it's either negligible or detrimental.

If its so bizarre, how did the fitness guys say to add more carbs right away?

The way I see it. If you're obese and inactive, ketosis is the way for you. Active and trying to cut some weight? Nothing wrong with low glycemic carbs.

 

[Wafflecakes]

The only thing I can see that homosexuality and obese have in common is people using hateful slurs to attack other people. Much like someone calling another person gay, someone might call an obese person a fat ass. It's hateful and hurts feelings. Beyond that I don't really see any comparison. Obesity can be corrected through the willpower of working out and eating healthy. Being gay is natural and not something that should be changed because that is the way the person is and there is nothing wrong with it.

Most of the time yes.....but not all. Even those who can some have much harder times than others.

Do you trust GAF to tell the difference? I sure as hell don't.

 

[mavs]

Or using this pic again:

Michael Phelps is not obese because he exercises a ton. No other way around it.

There's a difference between exercising a ton (basically his job is to exercise and he works insanely long shifts) and having an active lifestyle.

 

[Flynn]

Obesity denial is a bummer.

 

[BakedPigeon]

Most of the time yes.....but not all. Even those who can some have much harder times than others.

Do you trust GAF to tell the difference? I sure as hell don't.

I accept that there are indeed genetic conditions out there that make it extremely hard or maybe even impossible for someone to lose desired pounds. For the most part though, I would like to think with a little hard work you can achieve your desired results.

This cant be said for being gay though because no problem exists. Even the Mormon camp where they try to turn a gay person straight are an outrage. I feel really bad for anyone who would have to go through that hell.

 

[RM8]

There's a difference between exercising a ton (basically his job is to exercise and he works insanely long shifts) and having an active lifestyle.

Of course, that's why it's not advised for anyone who isn't a super athlete to eat so much food. And yes, I agree that for fat loss diet is number one.

 

[FallingEdge]

OK. So these people aren't obese. The statement isn't "terrible" and "completely wrong." You just couldn't (or chose not to) actually read it.

I've read it and what you are spouting is nonsense as is much of your other posts in this thread. You keep on talking about how carbs are bad and aren't effective in losing weight and the final nail in the coffin is your comment on exercise. You really have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[beastmode]

Stop it.

Just stop.

There is nothing detrimental about a safe program that combine aerobic and anaerobic training with a diet low in sugar, high in fiber, and with a portion of calories. While the % of BF you will lose when you begin to train and eat less will go down due to your metabolism slowing, this is a good thing due to it coming to a more normal rate. Besides, weight loss is a marathon not a sprint.

Fuck me, working out depletes your glycogen so that way the sugar in your blood has somewhere to go assisting with insulin resistance. It helps lower resting heart rate, increases VO2 max, lowers blood pressure.... fucking hell, all issues that obese people suffer. Thin inactive people suffer it as well, but they don't have those issues coupled with a high waist to hip ratio.

@Waffle, this dude, right here, is.

Did you see the word KETOSIS in that sentence and know what it is? I completely agree with you, if you don't want to cut carbs for whatever reason - the alternative is exercise. And regardless of how you lose weight, it's a good preventative measure for not becoming overweight again. A better idea than me stopping might be for you to actually comprehend what you're responding to.

If its so bizarre, how did the fitness guys say to add more carbs right away?

The way I see it. If you're obese and inactive, ketosis is the way for you. Active and trying to cut some weight? Nothing wrong with low glycemic carbs.

Being actively engaged with life and strenuous exercise at a gym are different things. You're not supposed to work out while on ketosis because it's fairly pointless if not detrimental, even still - you shouldn't have stayed the same weight and loss some on after getting back on carbs, that is indeed bizzare and goes against just about every write-up in the NeoGAF fitness/weight loss threads, logic, and medical research. But it's beside the point, you weren't even really obese. Ketosis isn't supposed to be for small amounts of weight loss.

 

[Diatribe1974]

After I was introduced to Intermittent Fasting by the Hodge Twins, I've found that the extra weight I've got on me has steadily (and more reliably) dropped off me. I started around 255 and now am about 236 in the month to six weeks since I started. It could've been more, but I've had some bad, bad days in which I said "Hey, I've lost a ton of weight. OINK OINK BITCHES! WHERE'S THE BAG OF CHEETOS?", otherwise I'd have probably lost even more weight. It's not that hard. If you find yourself the target of someone's ire because of your excessive weight, then it's up to you to change yourself to simply become normal. No, not this model quality looks, but simply normal. You don't have to sport a six pack or anything. Just be physically normal in the weight department. And don't give me that "Well, what is normal?" bullshit reply either.