Chinpoko_Master
Member
This thread was funny when it was first made. I guess I was the only one laughing.This thread is so funny in retrospect.
This thread was funny when it was first made. I guess I was the only one laughing.This thread is so funny in retrospect.
I think there's still a cloud over PS4's prospects. Vita utterly crashing and burning set an awful precedent, and it seems like 3rd parties only recently came to grips with PS3 scale development. Unless they're doing a AAA title targeting the west, I don't see a whole lot of incentive for 3rd parties to really consider Orbis, and if they're doing that they'll go Durango multi as a rule. I think crossgen PS3/Orbis could be a thing for some in the region though (like Musou or possibly Yakuza), sort of like how Sony's pushing it for PSP/Vita.Why would the Wii U not get those franchises, but still end up getting support from "other" JP console developers?
There's three choices for JP devs moving forward:
1. 3DS
2. PS3/Wii U
3. PS4
This thread was funny when it was first made. I guess I was the only one laughing.
That's a lot of pre-emptive BS in one post! I'm impressed. Frankly I'd still be surprised if the PS4 outsold the WiiU in Japan.
"Its really not the 3DS situation at all because the 3DS had no real competition and also had third parties on board"
How is it really any different? No real competition? The PSP was outselling the 3DS during it's low time, in a similar way the PS3 is outselling the WiiU now. Frankly I think you'll be the one eating crow, come holiday season.
Because Japanese centered games benefit from the increased processing power much less than games geared toward the western market; why should they not choose their lead platform to be PS3/Wii U, if considering the demand from the market and also their engines, even hasn't reached the potential of this generation consoles?Why would the Wii U not get those franchises, but still end up getting support from "other" JP console developers?
There's three choices for JP devs moving forward:
1. 3DS
2. PS3/Wii U
3. PS4
Wrong; 3DS main competitor was also PSP when it was released; PSP has been outselling PSV quite often too.Its really not the 3DS situation at all because the 3DS had no real competition and also had third parties on board. WiiU has competition as it is getting outsold by the ps3 and will have the greater threat of ps4. Third parties are not on board either. Furthermore, the WiiU will probably not get a price cut like 3DS.
LOL, Nintendo is the one playing from behind here. Sony has to make sure they get next gen FF, KH, MGS, and RE and they can maintain their niche over there as the home console of choice.
I think there's still a cloud over PS4's prospects. Vita utterly crashing and burning set an awful precedent, and it seems like 3rd parties only recently came to grips with PS3 scale development. Unless they're doing a AAA title targeting the west, I don't see a whole lot of incentive for 3rd parties to really consider Orbis, and if they're doing that they'll go Durango multi as a rule. I think crossgen PS3/Orbis could be a thing for some in the region though (like Musou or possibly Yakuza), sort of like how Sony's pushing it for PSP/Vita.
Wii U also now has a lot to prove to garner more support. Pretty much everything is resting on Nintendo's shoulders at this point, though I do think 3rd parties will be quicker to jump in if it takes off than they were on Wii.
I think 3DS is going to dominate Japan to a degree not seen since PS2 though. It's basically the perfect system for Japan (PS2 level performance, DS level audience) and virtually all 3rd parties are doing well on it (better than DS in fact). PS3 will still get good support for a little while, but Vita, Wii U and Orbis are really going to have to fight tooth and nail to get any scrap of support looking ahead.
Because Japanese centered games benefit from the increased processing power much less than games geared toward the western market; why should they not choose their lead platform to be PS3/Wii U, if considering the demand from the market and also their engines, even hasn't reached the potential of this generation consoles?
Like, for the same reason that it is getting DQ and MH.
Don't forget that the two main reasons Nextbox/PS4 are said to perform better than Wii U are graphical capabilities and online, both of which are more or less irrelevant in Japan.
Sony will win the Japan showdown.
The Wii-u will not be able to compete this gen, one year start or not.
Unless Sony screws the pooch with it's launch I just can't see the Wii-U even coming close to outselling the PS4 this gen.
Sony will win the Japan showdown.
The Wii-u will not be able to compete this gen, one year start or not.
Unless Sony screws the pooch with it's launch I just can't see the Wii-U even coming close to outselling the PS4 this gen.
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However, the chances that Wii U get support from Japanese developers who make games popular in Japan, is much much more than receiving the same from Western developers. I can think of only few major franchises that may not be released on Wii U: Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, Resident Evil, Souls series.
The PS4 still needs to compete with the 3DS.
That's been the case for years now.Had I thought that Japan just doesn't care about home consoles anymore and switched to handhelds I wouldn't have made the thread. I really though home consoles were more important in the region but looks like they aren't.
Wrong; 3DS main competitor was also PSP when it was released; PSP has been outselling PSV quite often too.
Had I thought that Japan just doesn't care about home consoles anymore and switched to handhelds I wouldn't have made the thread. I really though home consoles were more important in the region but looks like they aren't.
Nothing has changed. People are either going to buy Wii U or just ignore it and play their 3DSs. I still can't think of any way for Sony to make significant headway, they've lost all their big third party advantages (save for Final Fantasy which SE is hellbent on killing) and spent so much internal effort pandering to western audiences they have just about nothing for Japan. Unless we see a major shift on Feb 20, Wii U will likely still win by default.
Soul Sacrifice, Last Guardian and FF VS might have a thing to say about Wii U owning Japan
Japan does not care about the WiiU at the moment. Whether Japan cares about the ps4 is an entirely different story.
When they actually appear, we can discuss it. But until then, vaporware means shit. And if history has anything to say about it, Vita-exclusive software doesn't rank much higher than vaporware.
I see people in this thread making the mistake of thinking that handhelds are all Japan cares about. No, it's just that there's less userbase fragmentation in it.
With the Wii and the PS3, there was an obvious difference in philosophy between the 2, and it divided the market. Given that Japan prefers to have one console be the dominant player, this fragmentation of the userbase could not be accepted. Pair that with 3rd-parties being so hard for the Western dollar that nothing ended up on the market-dominant Wii, and it's pretty simple to see why consoles were disregarded this gen. But that does not indicate this pattern will necessarily follow into the WiiU/PS4 generation.
A weak start for WiiU is nothing new, consoles generally do have weak starts, even the PS2 did. So I'd sit tight before we proclaim Japan is handheld-land at the exclusion of everything else.
Japan already has a home console of choice, it's the ps3. Why would ps3 devs move away from 9 million active ps3 users to the wii u instead? How does that make any financial sense?
Japan already has a home console of choice, it's the ps3. Why would ps3 devs move away from 9 million active ps3 users to the wii u instead? How does that make any financial sense?
So you are saying PS4 will never get any games?
So you are saying PS4 will never get any games?
The current discussion is regarding home consoles.
Japan already has a home console of choice, it's the ps3. Why would ps3 devs move away from 9 million active ps3 users to the wii u instead? How does that make any financial sense?
I also disagree with the bolded. That's simply a result of previous systems being so different from another, from a development perspective. What you're seeing now with ps3 and wii u on the market together is kind of unprecedented. Similarly, if the 3ds hardware were more in line with the vita, there would be a lot of multiplatform handheld games.
When I created the thread I didn't consider handhelds. I can add it to the OP if you like. The discussion is not only about home consoles.
Wait, what japanese third parties on ps3 have they already lost? Weren't Dark Souls 2, MGS5, KH HD just announced recently?
Japan already has a home console of choice, it's the ps3.
Whatever your intent originally, this is the discussion that's being had right now. 3DS has clearly won over Japan, that's not debatable.
There's no exclusivity on any of those, nor are they the type of games to push Sony ahead. MGS has the best shot but it's still multiplatform and the series has mattered less in recent years. But the other killer is those are PS3 games meaning those resources haven't jumped to newer hardware, PS4 is still without anything announced.
As for other devs, Nintendo scooped up Platinum and I wouldn't count on Atlus staying buddy-buddy either.
LOL, ok dude. You can amend your OP or you can ask a mod to shut the thread down since it's no longer adhering to your rules. Your call. Not sure what you're trying to prove.For it to be on topic, the discussion would include handhelds. I think you are I know what it means to stay on topic.
Sony will win the Japan showdown.
The Wii-u will not be able to compete this gen, one year start or not.
Unless Sony screws the pooch with it's launch I just can't see the Wii-U even coming close to outselling the PS4 this gen.
For lower end stuff though, why bother moving from PS3? I dunno, I just don't see those sorts of games hitting Orbis in the first couple years fir the most part when there are other platforms with established markets far better at serving development on that scale.If a dev can't handle ps3 scale development, then wii u is automatically disqualified because it is the same exact scale. I also don't think "ps3 scale development" is very specific either, since if you look at ps3 games you have stuff like FFXIII and MGS4 ranging all the way down to Disgaea. A ps3 game need not have a 40 million budget, and same will be true for ps4.
That's a revisionist take. The real problem with Vita vs 3DS was one of outreach: Nintendo was greasing the wheels for about everyone behind the scenes to ensure support while Sony essentially just made the system and expected devs to line up. That's a strategy problem, and one that certainly could be repeated if Sony doesn't do some major soul searching and course correction with how they handle Japanese 3rd party relations. Nintendo and Sony have essentially ended up on opposite ends of the spectrum on this to where they were in the 90s.Regarding Vita, I don't think that's relevant for ps4. Third parties looking to make the next gen transition simply put all their eggs into the 3DS basket instead of the psp successor, and rightfully so. Of course Vita would struggle.
*straightens nonexistent tie* I still think the Wii U will take Japan.
Yeah it will probably take Japan as far as consoles go, but winning the Japanese console race atm is like winning the Mixed Doubles @ Wimbledon. The 3DS is the real champ of Japan....
Too soon for that. Ironically, your post could be ironic in retrospect later in the year.
For lower end stuff though, why bother moving from PS3? I dunno, I just don't see those sorts of games hitting Orbis in the first couple years fir the most part when there are other platforms with established markets far better at serving development on that scale.
That's a revisionist take. The real problem with Vita vs 3DS was one of outreach: Nintendo was greasing the wheels for about everyone behind the scenes to ensure support while Sony essentially just made the system and expected devs to line up. That's a strategy problem, and one that certainly could be repeated if Sony doesn't do some major soul searching and course correction with how they handle Japanese 3rd party relations. Nintendo and Sony have essentially ended up on opposite ends of the spectrum on this to where they were in the 90s.
PSP was orders of magnitude more successful and popular than PS3 or Wii, and if Sony couldn't make it's successor work, that casts a cloud over their capabilities in general imo. It's certainly something I'd consider relevant.
Kind of pointless since a ps3/360 game is effectively ps3 exclusive in Japan.
And those games appearing on ps3 do push Sony ahead, simply by virtue of not being on the wii u.
I'll say it one more time, ps3/wii u situation helps Sony a lot more than nintendo. What the wii u would need to supersede the ps3 is to have the same exclusive support the ps3 has been getting.
I'm not saying the situations are identical, only that Sony proved completely incompetent with what should've been a relatively smooth system transition. And that could happen again, regardless of circumstances.Well, the DS was way more popular than the PSP, so perhaps it wasn't a tall task for nintendo to grease the wheels and capture the remaining handheld franchises. The PSP was essentially living off of MH after all.
The ps3 vs Wii situation was very different, from a software perspective. And there is nothing indicating that Nintendo has greased any wheels to get the big japanese console franchises that allowed the ps3 to get a foothold in the region.
Technically, Sony is playing from behind because Nintendo released its next-gen console first. That gives Nintendo time to get their line-up together before the PS4 arrives. Due to the increase of development time for games, the PS4 may suffer from similar problems with game releases, especially with AAA/AAAA Japanese games. It may be years before the next-gen version of the games franchises you mentioned are released. As a reference, we can just look at how much time it is taking for current-gen games to come out. It will probably not going to get better when it comes to making next-gen games.3DS was like the ps3, a system with full third party support and a really high price. Solution was simple, drop the price and watch sales shoot up. It is not anything like the Wii U situation other than it has the nintendo label. People who don't look into context make such arguments.
Well damn, that makes the situation even funnier.
Because MH is a really big deal outside of Japan? And as an exclusive to a $300 system that has major problems getting people to buy it?
LOL, Nintendo is the one playing from behind here. Sony has to make sure they get next gen FF, KH, MGS, and RE and they can maintain their niche over there as the home console of choice.
I'm not saying the situations are identical, only that Sony proved completely incompetent with what should've been a relatively smooth system transition. And that could happen again, regardless of circumstances.
PSP was HUGE in 2010 and 2011, with far more dev support than DS even really (not just MH). It had a significant late term comeback, and even domineered over 3DS early on. Which actually, isn't all that different from PS3.
Had I thought that Japan just doesn't care about home consoles anymore and switched to handhelds I wouldn't have made the thread. I really though home consoles were more important in the region but looks like they aren't.
This thread was amusing in the past. It's even more amusing now. Seriously. Orbis will have two very big hitters for the Japanese market within the first year. The type that will move consoles and build market share. If Nintendo doesn't recover with the Wii U by this holiday, they really are screwed.
Yes. I've done analysis of Wii Fit/Wii Fit Plus to weekly Wii sales in Japan a few years ago, and it was a fairly consistent percentage (30-50% weekly sales, IIRC). More convincingly, Nintendo put out stats from Club Nintendo showing that Wii Fit Plus was the largest % of games registered with the Wii in Fall 2009, even greatly more than New Super Mario Bros. Wii. Want to say it was like 50% compared to 25-30%. It's in the IR docs from around that time.
Sure, there was a lot of that, too. *raises hand* Wii Fit/Wii Fit Plus were still one of the highest (if not second behind Wii Sports) true system sellers on Wii, though.
Aren't you glad I responded before you did so?
This thread was amusing in the past. It's even more amusing now. Seriously. Orbis will have two very big hitters for the Japanese market within the first year. The type that will move consoles and build market share. If Nintendo doesn't recover with the Wii U by this holiday, they really are screwed.
Are you saying it increased system sales by 30-50% after its release?